Axiom...
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 79 Registered: Aug-04 | alright guys...im a high school guy looking to upgrade his stereo...im looking at buying a pair of the axiom m80ti's...i was planning on adding a subwoofer if i wasn't satisfied with the bass response...i will be powering these two speakers with the harman kardon HK 3480...i have heard good things about it...and yes it can play at 4 ohms...it puts out 150 w/ch @ 4 ohms...now is 150 watts enough to power the axioms...what are your thoughts...o yea...is there any other place besides www.axiomaudio.com where i can look at buying them...i want to get the best deal possible...i check ebay once in a while and can't find much of anything...looking to spend around 1000 on a pair...maybe less. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 677 Registered: Mar-05 | what kind of music do you listen to? How loud? How big is your room? $1000 is a very nice speaker/sub budget...sure wish I had that kind of dough when I was in high school! : ) BTW have you auditioned the m80ti's yet? |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Apr-04 | The only place you'll find Axioms is the Axiom site unless you try to find them used. You can get them for a bit less as "cosmetic blems" for 10% off from the "factory outlet" on the site. You'll be OK at 150wpc. The only way you can audition them is to find someone who has them... |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 81 Registered: Apr-04 | ...Gee, when I was in high school I MADE speakers out of plywood and used 8" Jensen dual-cone speakers that I bought at the surplus store for $10 bucks each! |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1026 Registered: Jan-05 | BTW......... 10% off for blems is 'NOT' a good deal. If you were shopping from anybody else, you'd get closer to 30%. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3906 Registered: May-04 | Rick - From your bio I see you're 47 and retired. It would appear your frugality paid off. What amazes me more is the idea anyone would think a 150 watt amplifier might not drive a pair of speakers. 1200 watt car stereo systems have poisoned the youth of America. I do miss the days of a good sounding 15 watt receiver paired with decent cheap speakers. http://www.davidreaton.com/PDFs/The_Advent_Model_300_Stereo_receiver.pdf#search='the%20advent%20receiver' http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/30thAnniversary/143_double_advent.html |
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Barnacle Unregistered guest | For the speakers that $120 bucks from 1973 is is $510 in today's dollars. http://www1.jsc.nasa.gov/bu2/inflateCPI.html Now in the header it says $120 each. In the article it says $120 for the pair. There are some good speakers out there around $500. For $1K there are lots of good speakers availible. The Ascend Acoustics 170 in '73 dollars would be $77. Or you could look at it as those Advents would have costed 55% more than the Ascends if they were availible at the time with their present price adjusted to 1973 dollars. I didn't see a price for the Advent receiver but a 1977 dollar is $3.11 today. BTW- There is one on audiogon right now for $200 I do miss when 15 watts was at least 15 watts. I think watt inflation has kept up with monetary inflation or even exceeded it. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Aug-04 | yea i guess i am used to my 1500 watt car audio setup...i gota 15" brahma in my car...its pretty sweet...i mostly listen to rock...and i also wanted to set it up for some theater...i really don't think i need the 7.1 stuff...im fine with a 2.1 setup...well sounds like the harman kardon reciever will push the axioms quite nicely...the reason i can afford these babies is because ive been saving my money for the past 5 summers(mowing lawn's for $13 an hr/ not bad for a jr in high school) have quite a bit racked up and have some money to spend...i am getting tired of my little aiwa system sounding like crap and not getting loud at all... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3909 Registered: May-04 | In 1975 the Original Large Advent Loudspeaker was selling for $97 in a vinyl clad cabinet and $107 in a walnut veneered case. Both the Large and the Small Advent ($89 in vinyl) could reach an honest 32Hz in most rooms. The Advent Receiver originally sold for $259. (All these prices are from West of the Mississippi River dealers.) Those were the days before WalMart and Best Buy ran the retail markets and the Advents sold for their suggested retail prices. With inflation that would place the Advent Receiver in the $1,000 price range, not quite what a 35 watt PrimaLuna tube integrated sells for today. Both products prove what 15 to 35 watts can actually achieve when they are exceptionally good amplifiers. Before the Advent Receiver came along, I most often sold the Advent speakers with a 40 watt stereo HK receiver for $499. (Approximately five times the cost of the Advent speakers.) With inflation that would put it at $1750 of today's money. (About what a Portal Panache solid state integrated amp sells for today.) That's pretty pricey compared to the HK 3480 with 120 watts selling on the internet for about $275-300. But, in 1974 I was driving a car that sold at retail for $2,995. Since the Advent 201 ($299) hadn't made the cassette popular yet, I only had a 4 watt FM stereo radio in that car. Yes, things have changed but I'm not sure cheap watts have been for the better. I have read the HK is a pretty good amp though. Apparently it is one of the few decent mass market receivers out there. And the Ascend 170 is, according to their web site "Setting a new performance standard for accurate sound reproduction for two channel stereo reproduction". Thanks to computer assisted designs many inexpensive speakers are constantly setting new standards these days. I'm certain Michael can find a good system for his money. I would only encourage him to look beyond the (largest) numbers to decide what to purchase. Big, whether in terms of wattage or dollars isn't what makes a system musical - or even loud for that matter. Assuming, of course, a musical system is what he's looking for. And though many on this forum will disagree, I would suggest he put his $1,000 (the bulk of his budget) into a good amplifier and his $275-300 towards good speakers. My experience over thirty plus years of listening have, as suggested by the examples above, proven to me that methodology gets the best results. For Michael's benefit (and anyone else who's interested), I would suggest a quick read of the Advent Receiver's description of their power amplifier section under "Power, Speakers and Home Listening". http://www.davidreaton.com/PDFs/The_Advent_Model_300_Stereo_receiver.pdf#search='the%20advent%20receiver' And this on the Advent: http://www.davidreaton.com/PDFs/The_Great_Preamp_Survey.pdf Those ideas still make sense today. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1035 Registered: Jan-05 | You're correct....... I disagree. You'd spend $1,000 on an amp only to plug $200/300 speakers into it??? LOL You got it completely backwards!!!! $1,000 speakers plugged into a $300 AMP will freaking blow away the 'reverse' every time!!!!! Geez Jan, and I thought you knew what you were talking about until now  |
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Silver Member Username: Stealth_cDublin, CA USA Post Number: 226 Registered: Jan-05 | I think it largely depends on the speakers/amplifier in question. Crap can come at all prices after all. In addition, although a good quality product does have a certain cost associated with its production, there are some good products that can be found for pretty cheap. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1040 Registered: Jan-05 | Ok, since we're in a thread titled "Axioms" and you're making a stupid point that doesnt need to be made... Keep in mind, the total cost is roughly the same in both cases.... What combo do you think would offer the most output/bang for the buck for your home theater??? Axiom M60TI Towers $1000/pair Denon1905...........$300/pricegrabber.com or Axiom 3TI 'tiny' bookshelves $300 Denon3805..............................$1000 Which receiver/front speaker combo would you rather have as part of your home theater package?? If more people would simply clean the cobwebs out of their brain so they could think clearly rather than reading to much into simple thoughts, we'd all be much better off as a society. |
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Silver Member Username: Stealth_cDublin, CA USA Post Number: 227 Registered: Jan-05 | Well you are a nice fellow aren't you Paul. Since the original poster already has an amplifier (and a fairly good one at that), your conjecture is meaningless Paul. Moreover, my point largely reinforced your argument since a solid stereo amplifier can be found for pretty cheap, take the NAD C320BEE for $399 as an example. If more people paid some attention to the simple thoughts, we'd all be much better off as a society. As for the conjecture you posed, I would take the Axiom 3TI with a the Denon 1905 and add a HSU STF-2 and shave a few bucks off the whole deal. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Apr-04 | Take it easy PAUL...No need to get YOUR KNICKERS IN A TWIST!! Let's talk value my friends...When I threw away my home made Jensens, driven by a 25 watt Technics receiver no less...I did get Large Advents in the mid 80's and a 50 Wpc Kenwwod. Lasted for 20+ years. My new setup is a NAD 370 @ 120Wpc and Athena AS-F2s from BEST BUY! Yep, this combination KICKS BIG BUTT! So, for $600 for the Athena AS-F2s at full retail price you save $400 to go buy yourself another piece of stereo equipment or what ever teenagers spend their money on nowadays. Oh, I just ordered the Axiom M50ti's (for the den, driven by a Rotel RX-1052) and YES, the Axioms are a value and NO, no stereo shop AROUND HERE gives discounts FOR ANY REASON! Better find the best prices on line and pay no tax to boot! |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 83 Registered: Apr-04 | So Paul, How do you like your CERWIN-VEGAS? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3911 Registered: May-04 | I knew my post wouldn't stand for long without someone calling me an idiot. And I should have guessed who would be first in line. Mr. Cerwin Vega. Anyone who describes their system as "This is one sick and nasty beast" certainly would not see the value in my advice. Yes, Paul, that is how I would spend my money. I subscribe to the garbage in - garbage out concept of system building. That was the point of the Advents and their selling price; it allowed more money to be spent on a quality amplifier. This concept of putting your money in a good front end didn't originate with Linn, you know. Everybody is allowed to spend their money as they see fit (a proposition some people suddenly disagree with when the subject of cables is broached). What you desire from your system will determine how that money should be spent. Michael's second post describing his car system and his music choices posted while I was writing my post. That means I have to back off my suggestion for this system. The grace and finesse of a $1,000 tube amp will be lost on someone who is not going to listen for what that amp does well. In terms of an amplifier playing 20-20kHz at essentially flat frequency response, the HK will do as well as most any decent amplifier. The soundstaging and imaging abilities and overall musicality of an amp such as the PrimaLuna, or even a NAD, will be lost on most rock music. There are qualities I would find desirable in a more expensive or simply different amplifier than the HK receiver, but I don't think Michael and I would find ourselves listening for the same qualities in a system. For someone with a 1500 watt amplfier system in their vehicle, I think the HK is probably a good choice. But, Michael, 150 watts is not puny! That wattage should be sufficient to drive any speaker. The question I assume you are asking is; will it play loud enough? Regarding speakers I once again can easily defend my statement to anyone who desires transparency and soundstaging combined with large and small scale dynamics. Michael's second post also indicates he is not going to be interested in those qualities. Someone with a 15" in his back seat (and who considers that "sweet") isn't likely to be looking for micro dynamics. Nor will his music choices satisfy him should he go searching for such. My guess would be more on the order of "constant level" dynamics is what this high school student is looking for. I'm also going to assume he would like to replicate the sound of that sweet 15 incher in his home system. If that is correct, I can only make the suggestion he look for the most efficient speaker he can find. For it is that (anechoic) S.P.L. at 1 meter specification which will largely determine what will satisfy his needs. Volume is achieved with the speakers, not with the amplifier. While 150 watts is not at all a puny amplifier, Michael should understand that in real world terms, the 120 watt HK 3480 amp will not even manage volume levels that are twice as loud as the little 15 watt Advent Receiver. However, a speaker spec'd at 98dB efficiency will (all things equal) play twice as loud as a speaker spec'd at 88dB. Buy your volume in your speakers, not your amplifier, Michael. The choices in very high efficiency speakers for someone such as Michael are rather slim. I would suggest a pair of mid sized bookshelf speakers on a decent pair of stands or small floor standing speakers and then a subwoofer to supplement the bass Michael will probably desire. I see no need for large floor standing speakers since the lower two or three octaves will be handled by a subwoofer. Spend enough to get the efficiency (volume) you want in the main speaker and the money required to get the amount of bass you want to crank out of the sub without distress. Normally when eficiency is the main goal of a loudspeaker, fidelity and flat frequency response are not at the top of the designer's worksheet. If volume is the main requirement, the choices are the usual suspects in high efficiency speakers. However, a very hot top end and thick, bass reflex bottom may not be exactly what Michael is looking to buy if he is considering the Axioms. Should Michael come across the Infinty Primus line of speakers I would suggest he give a listen to a somewhat flatter response speaker. http://www.dba-pr.com/clients/infinity/releases/primus.htm Their efficiency is reasonably high (slightly higher than what I see in the Axiom line; about the equivalent of twice as much wattage) though if volume is the main criteria, they still may not be what is required. Michael, if I have misjudged your requirements for a system, let me know where I am incorrect. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 667 Registered: Feb-04 | For high efficiency horn-loaded speakers, there's always Klipsch! I also would not drive $300 speakers with a $1000 amplifier, but I'd be more polite about it than Paul was. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 683 Registered: Mar-05 | Rick, > The only way you can audition them is to find someone who has them... Well that's exactly what I meant. A lot of people don't realize that one of the nice things about going with a small Internet-direct company like Axiom or Ascend is that it is possible that you can contact the company or their users' forum to ask for a local owner who'll let you come listen. Michael does live in South Dakota as opposed to a more densely populated state so a local owner might be harder to find, unfortunately. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1042 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL Jan, I never called you the "I" word. I only said that I disagreed with your statement. You might want to reread my previous post. BTW, what makes my system a "sick and nasty beast" is my new SVS 12-plus/2 sub  ...not the Cerwin Vegas. If you have loose fillings in your teeth, I dont recommend you coming within 100ft of my system. A quality $300 amp combined with quality $1000 front speakers will make minced meat out of the "REVERSE" every time...........it's not even close. You were 'way off' on your previous statement. BTW......I noticed how virtually nobody was willing to answer my previous question. That's because the answer was obvious........... go figure??? That's because you'd be a fool to take the teeny-weeny bookshelf twirps combined with the 3805....... over the towers combined with the 1905. Anybody could see that...... |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 607 Registered: Feb-05 | Not everytime Paul. You could have a $300 Sony AVR with GMA Europa's. Absolutes are a dangerous thing! |
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Silver Member Username: Stealth_cDublin, CA USA Post Number: 230 Registered: Jan-05 | Every time huh. How bout a $1000 pair of white van speakers with a $300 Sony receiver compared to a $300 pair of vintage Large Advents and a $1000 Rotel amp? |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 684 Registered: Mar-05 | Michael, wow this is FIVE summers' worth of sweat, eh? That's amazing, I really admire that. My first stereo setup came from working one summer flipping hamburgers for $3.60/hour. It consisted of Sansui speakers, Technics receiver, Fisher tape deck, and inherited my older brother's old turntable. All of maybe $350 if I remember correctly and purchased at Target when they actually used to carry cheap components, but to my clueless 15 year old ears it was like the Taj Mahal of hi-fidelity, LOL. I'd say that you Michael are way the hell ahead of where I was at the time! My current advice to you right now though would be just two things: 1. Size---physical size and paper-spec size (like alleged "watts per channel" ratings)---is not the final word by any stretch of the imagination. Many bookshelves when used with a competent subwoofer will easily WHIP tower speakers costing the same or more. Many mass-market receivers grossly overrate their power ratings for marketing reasons. HK to their credit is one of the few that are known for having honest and even conservative power ratings. 2. The amp/receiver quality is at least EQUALLY important as the speaker quality. Here I have to agree with Jan. This hit me full in the face recently when I added a vintage NAD amp and pre/pro ($400 shipped) to my existing Marantz 5400 (see "Holy MOFO" thread in the receivers section)---my speakers which I had been already very happy with suddenly BLOSSOMED like never before...soundstage, detail, fullness and bass extension went straight through the roof. What I'm not clear about is if you've already ordered the receiver or if that's still in the planning stages? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1044 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL... OK, I give up.... I agree that a $1,000 pair of cow-dung speakers combined with a $300 amp will sound worse.... Geez....... You are all nuts!!! Luckily, I dont have to live with your home theaters for my personal enjoyment.... PS.....at the very least, buy a SVS PB12-plus/2 sub to go with those 'wimpy' fronts, and at least you have a chance at having a quality theater experience. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 695 Registered: Mar-05 | just curious Paul, now that you have the SVS sub are your CVs set on "small" or "large" on your Yamaha receiver? |
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Bronze Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 78 Registered: Dec-04 | A 300-500$ amp will be quite sufficient if you drive a very efficient speaker. Cerwin Vega and Klipch come to mind. Of course, with such a car stereo as you describe, it probably has that 6" exhaust pipe on a 95hp engine to go with it, and needs a transmission service and new tires. Oh wait!@ It has new 25" tires, but the a/c doesn't work. Of course! So the windows are down so I can hear your car go thumpa thumpa! Just loke a strip joint(you arent old enough to go in there), where they use? who whoulds guessed? Cervin Vegas or Klipch! Lets give a hand to..GINGER! |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 84 Registered: Apr-04 | I think we're reaching the end of the line on this thread, men...oh, and boys. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3916 Registered: May-04 | Before we go, please let me put on my "pompous @ss" cap. I was not way off when I suggested a premium be placed on the electronics and a minimal amount on the loudspeakers. Personally, once I got beyond the Sears system with the flip out speakers, I have never had a system where the electronics didn't cost more than the speakers. So I could easily demonstrate the benefits of such a system building technique to anyone who wishes to visit, but it would be much more convenient for all of us if you would each go to a good high end audio shop in your area and let them do the work for me. There was nothing for me to comment on in your choice of products, Paul. The two amplifiers are merely bigger and smaller versions of the same stuff. They are not in the same league of what I was suggesting for Michael. While I'm stepping on toes, let me state I don't really know of a "quality" $300 receiver. From what I read the HK comes about as close as any. I understand that many of you do not listen for the same qualities in music that I find intertesting. But I can't imagine you would find a decent stereo shop that would tell you the Denon receivers are of the same class and quality as the PrimaLuna tube integrated or the Portal Panache (or even a NAD integrated) when it comes to sound quality. I don't know where any of you guys are at in your experience with audio. I assume most of you have never sat and listened to a very good system other than what you own. I also assume most of you do not have live music as your reference for what your system does. I would encourage all of you to stop by a shop that carries receivers as their entry level components and spend some time on a weekday listening to what is available when you swap out electronics and maintain a medium priced, medium sized speaker of decent quality. Most of you, like eddie, will be suprised at what the electronics contribute to the sound quality. Some of you, such as Paul, will not hear the difference in all likelyhood. Nothing against Paul, but he listens for things that have little relation to the "quality" of the system. Before you get your shorts in another bind, Paul, you are free to listen to whatever you wish and I know you believe you are listening for quality and can judge quality when it is presented to you. But if you have never listened to high end electronics (Denon receivers do not qualify), you have not heard what I am discussing. I have never sold CV speakers, but I have sold Klipsch and JBL. Both of these lines can easily display the benefits of better electronics in front of them. If the music you choose to listen to has none of the qualities which are present in an amplifier such as the PrimaLuna then you shouldn't spend your money on the tube amp. If the music you listen to depends on something more than just 20-20kHz response from the amplifier, then there is a good possibility you will hear what I am talking about. Not to say look what I have, but consider my system for a moment. If my tube amps were still available they would sell for about $6,000 for the pair of monoblocks. They have been tweaked to get the sound I want from the system. They weigh 65lbs. each to get 40-50 watts per channel. My pre amp is also no longer in production, but the current version sells for about $2,500. The most expensive speakers I have in the house are my LS3/5a's. Once again a discontinued product which is selling on the internet for between $1,000-1,600 per pair. That puts the speaker to electronics pricing structure at a minimum of around a 1:5.5 ratio. The sound is not what Paul would consider sick and nasty. That was not my intent when I put together my system. The speakers are the size of a shoe box and I don't use a subwoofer in this system. But the sound is dynamic in large and small scale. The sound stage is realistically sized for anything short of a symphony. And the presentation is beleivable for the music I listen to. If you've read the "HodgePodge" thread, you know I've used speakers as low priced as $300 on this system with excellent results in my opinion. I've put Polk bookshelf speakers on the system with good results. When a decent speaker, no matter the price, is sent a well constructed signal and controlled by a good amplifier, the results will suprise many listeners. I've demonstrated this with even more expensive Jeff Rowland amplifiers and $300 Camber speakers to many clients. The sound they heard may not, like Paul, have been what they were looking for, but they all came away impressed. If your experience with audio has not gone past the receivers you can buy at Circuit City, I would urge each of you to go to a good shop, a Linn dealer will be pleased to demonstrate what I'm telling you, and give a listen to what happens when you don't spend all your money on the amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 81 Registered: Aug-04 | all i have to say is wow..iv never had so many posts before on a forum i started...i really like the hk stereo reciever...and yes i know that watts do not deffer the loudness of a speaker...i know its the efficency combined with the amount of watts a speaker can handle...i just wanted to get the most out of the speaker as i possibly could...again i thank you for all your posts and opinions...well jan i honestly didn't understand half the stuff you said bout fidelity and all that jazz...i just want my sound system to maintain a good level of volume and have good sound quality...i have looked at klipsch because of their high sensitivity...i like them a lot...i like the way they sound...i do know quite a bit about car and professional audio...as i am a dj/church sound guy...i know all about technical stuff...i just have never really gone into home audio...i don't know what to look for...now that i have heard some stuff at my local best buy(i am close to sioux falls)i think that i wouldn't need massive floorstanding speakers...i understand that a few good bookshelves combined with good sub will be cheaper and sound good...i think ill look at klipsch...and the harman kardon...ive read on forums that klipsch speakers are very bright...i also heard that harman kardon amps are more warm...so i thought that this combo would tone down the brightness of the klipschs...is this alright??? |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Aug-04 | alright would it be better to get the hk reciever and (2) rb-75's from klipsch or get the hk reciever and get (4) rb-35's or (4) rb-25's...i would get a sub as well...not sure yet... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3923 Registered: May-04 | Michael - You are the only person who can decide what is "alright". I can go into a long discussion of what bright and warm might mean and why combining those qualities may or may not be the best solution to your system, but that won't help you out much. You have to decide what is important to you at this time in your life concerning audio. Then you must decide what will satisfy those requirements. The room the system works into will determine much of what you hear with any system, so always have the ability to listen at home before you make a final, irreversible decision. (And nothing is totally irreversible, you just may have to live with a system for a while until you can correct a mistake.) Most stores have a return policy, make certain you understand what the store's obligation is as well as your own. If you have the opportunity to position your speakers in the room according to their sound quality, I would suggest you read a few articles about speaker placement before you decide where the speakers will sit. http://www.nsmaudio.com/brochures/basicstsetup.html http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/speakerplacement.html http://www.soundstage.com/audiohell/audiohell200111.htm As you will see when you read the articles, there is no one correct position for speakers. It depends on the room, the system and your preferences. There are some other tips on the Galen Caroll site you might find useful. Regarding your past experience - when you begin assembling a home system you should forget everything you think you know about car audio. The two worlds do not inhabit the same universe. You can also discard half of what you have learned in sound reinforcement. The requirements for the two types of systems are drastically different unless you have a room which is the size of a church. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 348 Registered: Mar-05 | Well I have to retract all my support for you Paul. I have stuck up for you on many occasions feeling that everyone was ganging up on you. No, I now think "you" are the idiot. Your reasoning is like saying a honda civic with 19" giovanna wheels with pirelli p-zero's will "make mincemeat" out of a wrx with stock wheels. Sorry my man you are "way off" I think that svs has rattled loose what was left. I have cheap jbl speakers but I have them hooked to a denon amp and they sound good to me. If I got some paradigms and hooked them up to a std sony amp I am sure they wouldn't blow the doors off my setup. I now have to apologize to edster, art, jan and anyone else who I might of offended defending Captain America. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 701 Registered: Mar-05 | OK Michael, here's what I'd do if I were in your shoes: 1. Used NAD pre-amp, probably around $100: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974%26item%3D5778399370 %26%26 2. A pair of Outlaw Audio 200wpc Monoblocks ($578): http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/200.html OR 2. A used NAD 2-channel amp (around $200): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783%26item%3D5778134659 %26%26 3. A pair of Ascend CBM-170s with Hsu STF-2 subwoofer ($760 shipped): http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/stf2.html The HK3480 does have a much more attractive look and I'm sure would be ok if you went that route, but the NAD or Outlaw gear would be even another couple of notches better in performance. Ascend Acoustics and Hsu Research are among the most widely well-reviewed Internet-direct manufacturers out there; going I.D. does entail taking a small gamble in the form of return shipping if you don't like it but on the other hand your home is the best auditioning environment bar none. Do a Google search for both brands, plus search and ask around on other audio forums like hometheaterforum.com and avsforum.com |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3927 Registered: May-04 | That system should sound pretty good. My only concern would be whether it will play loud enough for Michael. A Klipsch RB35 is spec'd at 96dB @ 1 watt compared to the Ascend at 88dB. That 8 dB difference in efficiency is quite large. It is the equivalent of increasing the wattage 5 times from any given amplifier. And should Michael find a 500-700 watt amplifier, the Ascends would definitely suffer from that amount of power. Since Michael is a high school student, I do, however, have to question whether he will ever play his system so loud that the Ascend's will not suffice. What say you, Michael? Is this system going to have to provide music for the pool party? If so the chances of the Ascends blowing out midway through the fifth song are quite good. The efficiency of the Klipsch and a 100 watt amplifier will throw one heck of a party. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 703 Registered: Mar-05 | That's probably true, the Ascends are not designed for pool parties; for that even Paul's beloved Cerwin Vegas would suffice and you could get away with not buying a sub. http://www.chumbo.com/info.aspx?id=255355&ptr=prcgrab |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 83 Registered: Aug-04 | well i just want it to get loud enought that i start to shake things...i like things LOUD... Its going in my room which is about 20'x15'x7' tall so its a medium sized room i guess...im not going to lie i want it to start to hurt my ears...lol...im used to the mackie sa series for professional auido(sa1521's)...which suits my needs...if that helps... |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 84 Registered: Aug-04 | jan thanks for the links...ill give it a try with my system now..i don't think itl give me the results i desire...but it won't hurt... |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 85 Registered: Aug-04 | for a sub how would 1 jbl e250p keep up with 2 of the rb-75's...i have heard the jbl b4 but not with the rb-75's...it was with the jbl northridge line speakers...i thought it sounded impressive...but i don't know how much more power it could have taken...so what r your thoughts... |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1054 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL.....Joe lost me on the civic analogy. He must have mistaken someone elses post for mine. What the heck are you talking about?? Your comment made no sense whatsoever. Jan, I have absolutely no interest in music, nor do I waste time listening to it unless it's to kill 'windshield' time in the car, and better programming like Sean or Rush arent currently available. My system is strictly for creating a theater environment, and nothing more. Furthermore, owning boutique 'cheese and wine' weakling and overpriced speakers is of absolutely no interest to me. How people can throw away good money on what amounts to small overpriced paperweights is beyond me. Eddie, I change my speaker setups all the time. Sometimes I cut them off at 80hz, and sometimes I dont. Even when they're cut off at 80hz, they'll still easily produce more bass and overall output than 'cheese and wine' speakers set to large and create a much better movie experience. |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 29 Registered: May-05 | Michael - I've recommended this set up a million times, and will do it again - NAD C320BEE PSB Image t45 speakers The PSB's retail price will put the system out of your budget, but order them here and it's all within your budget - http://www.hipposaudiovideo.com/closeout1.htm I've got the 320BEE and t55's. You aren't going to need a subwoofer with these speakers. I also listen to a lot of rock music (classic and new) and prefer to listen to it pretty loud. My room is somewhat bigger than yours, and has no problems going loud at all. Jan - As far as a lack of soundstage and imaging in rock music, I have to disagree. I'm pretty sure you were referring to him not looking for those qualities, and old poorly recorded classic rock stuff such as the Doors and Hendrix. Sure it doesn't have the same qualities of classical and orchestal music, but a decently recorded rock cd (Korn, Sublime, STP) can image and throw out a respectable soundstage if the speakers are placed right. And good recordings - such as Pink Floyd and Dave Matthews - make investing in a great stereo worth every penny. |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 30 Registered: May-05 | By the way, Hippo's is a very good retailer. They have been in business for about 25 years. They are a family owned and operated business that I used to live a couple of miles from They aren't some fly by night operation that has become all too common from internet companies. Another factory authorized place to find PSB online for a cheap price is DMC electronics. Investing in quality components now makes upgrading them down the road that much cheaper and easier when you have more money and space for bigger and better things. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 705 Registered: Mar-05 | michael, at least half of the room-shaking effect that you desire is going to come from a quality sub, and that JBL e250 would likely NOT deliver the goods. I have the smaller e150 and it's a purchase that I've never stopped regretting. Go to hometheaterforum.com and do a search for "subwoofer shootout" and there should be a comparison of the JBL next to Velodyne, SVS, and Hsu subs. If I remember correctly the SVS was the winner with the Hsu a very close second, and the JBL a very very distant last. I'd budget at least $400 for the sub, and like the speakers you'll get far more bang for your buck going Internet direct than local retail. For the size of your room the Ascend 170s would do fine though the 340s would be even better with the extra driver and wide-dispersion tweeter, as long as you go with a decent amp. My NAD 2200 and Ascend 340s easily fill up my +600 square foot living room (and it has 18 foot vaulted ceilings) so I can't imagine your room requiring more than that. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 706 Registered: Mar-05 | Here are some prices for new NAD equipment: http://www.yawaonline.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=YO&Category_C ode=NADAMP |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 708 Registered: Mar-05 | > im not going to lie i want it to start to hurt my ears...lol For ear-bleeding levels I'd strongly suggest the NAD gear. The other thing to consider is that while a good receiver like the HK can also go almost as loud, you are unlikely to want to KEEP it that loud if you start getting a lot of distortion at reference levels. So it's not just about sheer SPL, but maintaining GREAT S.Q. at high SPL...which is where a do-it-all receiver often stumbles and where the quality of the speakers will also come into play. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 86 Registered: Aug-04 | ok thanks ed...ill look at putting more money towards a sub... |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 710 Registered: Mar-05 | check out these, they got great reviews and sometimes the B-stock models go for just $400: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1.html |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3933 Registered: May-04 | There you have the vital information you require when reading any of Paul's inputs on this side of the forum. He doesn't listen to music. Unless you are interested only in large scale, effects laden video sourced material or small minded, right wing ideology played at mind numbing levels, there isn't much Paul has experience with concerning music. His reference audio system is in his car. Why didn't you say so earlier, Paul? I SAID - WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO EARLIER? Stu - I may be assuming too much or too little regarding Michael's taste in music. However, given his stated desires for his ears to hurt (and I take him very seriously on this matter), there are other issues which need to be addressed at this time. One day someone will hand him a Chet Baker disc and he will find another world of listening. Until then I think your suggested system would, like eddie's, sound much better than anything we had in high school. However, like eddie's, I think your system suffers in the same area when trying to meet Michael's needs. Michael wants a system that will knock down him and his friends in short order. PSB will quickly grow weary of replacing dome tweeters and crossovers if he tries that with their speakers. Michael needs a speaker that will withstand some abuse because he has every intention of testing just how loud this system will play for long periods of time. With the PSB's or the Ascends, sooner or later what he has left of a speaker will have to be replaced with what he should have purchased in the first place. I have been down this road with many customers. Michael - Here's where I see your system heading. You need to be looking at the highest efficiency speaker you can find. Horns are efficient. They are meant to project their sound through and across a large space. They have other limiting qualities, but for what you want they are the best choice. The stadium rock groups use horns when you hear them in concert. Follow their lead. Dome tweeters are fine for small to medium sized rooms but will not do what you want at high volumes. I see your system being the "go to" system for parties inside and out. When used inside, horns will give the music an incisive bite that will do what you are desiring. Horns are not delicate. When used outside, horns will not blow up if used with a moderate amount of common sense. I am beginning to think you should be looking at PA speakers. Either Mackey or Klipsch. A home system doesn't have to have home speakers. PA speakers give you little in the way of cosmetics to pay for and everything in the way of sound. The HK receiver is the best choice if you can get it locally. At 3 O'Clock on the volume control, there isn't any difference between the HK and a NAD. Check for local service before you purchase. Anyone wanting to run their system the way you say you will is going to need service sooner or later. A HK with local service is much more desirable than a NAD that has to be sent off for repair. Remember one thing about amplifiers - when you turn the volume up and it doesn't get louder, you have reached the limits of the amp whether there is more left on the control or not. You are clipping the amp at that point. If you do not turn it down slightly, you are risking damage to the amp and speakers. Leave plenty of room around the amp for ventialtion. You should consider using a small whisper fan on top of the amp. The Hsu subs seem to be good values. I don't keep up with subs so I can't really help you there. Others on this thread are more interested in shaking things than I am. Though you are not the first person who wishhes to have their ears ring for several days after listening, I would urge you to have some common sense. Extremely loud levels for as lttile as 15 minutes can result in permanent hearing loss. I come from a generation that learned that lesson too late in too many instances. Please read this link and take the warning seriously: http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html You have not mentioned a source. Do you have anything in mind? |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 89 Registered: Aug-04 | idk what you mean by "source" i assume like a cd player or something...and no i haven't given something like that thought yet...well...i am used to spl...my friend has 4 18"s that he dj's with and i help him out a lot...hes hit well over 140...my 15" adire audio brahma(for my car) is capable of over 150 the highest ive hit with it is 150.7...so i think anything below 120 or so is "quieter"...i know a lot more about professional audio than i do home audio... how would you hook a pro amp up to a home audio reciever i have no idea...since the mackie speakers are powered it wouldn't have to be a powered receiver...but is their such thing...i really don't want to have to use a mixer to hook it up...i would rather use a home audio reciever...just because it looks more clean...any help is greatly apprieciated...thanks... heres a link to the speakers that i would use: http://www.mackie.com/products/srm450/index.html |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1058 Registered: Jan-05 | Jan, Ive maintained all along that my comments are HT related and not to music. My comments have nothing to do with music, but rather how pathetic boutique speakers would be as a foundation for a HT. If your main interest is listening to chamber music and 'mono' movies while you sample cheese and wine, then im sure small overpriced bookshelf speakers are all you need. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 90 Registered: Aug-04 | just my normal rca dvd player...that ill use as my cd player as well...maybe in the future ill upgrade this... |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 38 Registered: May-05 | Michael - make sure you listen to everything before you buy |
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Barnacle Unregistered guest | Okay anything over 120dB for more than a few seconds is damaging your hearing. If you want to enjoy music for your lifetime turn it down. I'm mid 30s with hearing damage from doing what you're doing when i was your age. I'd agree that if volume is your top priority look for some vintage Klipsch. If your interested in Ascend look at the 340s for volume. If you want the rule flat frequency response and neutrality of the Mackies look at the Ascend 170s but it will take some nice electronics to drive them above the upper 90s w/o distortion. As for front end to speaker cost debate it depends on the speaker. My front end costs 4 times my speakers. I'd need to spend 3 times what my speakers cost to get enough improvement in speaker SQ to make it worth it to me. Feeding a great speaker a mediocre signal will not allow those speakers to reach their potential. Speakers produce what is sent to them. A great speaker can only reproduce the signal being sent. It cannot improve on a bad signal but they likely will reveal it. Get a better source than a RCA DVD player! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3937 Registered: May-04 | Page 10 of the owner's manual states the Mackey's will accept an unbalanced input using a XLR connector. For this system you would run the source (DVD/CD) to a pre amp first, not a receiver. The pre amp will give you the controls you need to adjust volume and select input sources. A unit such as this one mentioned earlier would do the job: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974%26item%3D5778399370 && You would need a pair of interconnects that go from RCA's at the pre amp end to unbalanced XLR's at the speaker/amp end. The shop that carries the Mackey's should be able to supply this connector. In this system, the only component not acounted for would be a tuner which you can pick up and add to the inputs on the pre amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 91 Registered: Aug-04 | ok thanks for your help jan and others...ill let ya know how it all turns out later... mike p.s. and my youth group has a pair of the 450's as stage monitors...since i am the sound guy i can talk my youth pastor into letting me borrowing them for a night to see how they are...and yes if i decide on something different ill totally listen to it first... |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 43 Registered: May-05 | I just realized what Michael needs - Ever see the remake of the 'Italian Job'? Seth Green's character was going to buy a system that was "so loud it rips girl's clothes off!" I remember it was NAD components, but can't remember the speakers. It worked in the movie. Rent the movie to find out what it was. Sorry, I couldn't help it... |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 92 Registered: Aug-04 | lol yea i saw that movie... |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 93 Registered: Aug-04 | can't remember though...ill have to borrow it lol |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3944 Registered: May-04 | Yes, Michael, when you borrow the Mackeys tell your youth pastor you'd like to know if they will play "so loud it rips girl's clothes off"! In fact, you might want to ask if he'd like to join the experiment - just for purely scientific reasons, of course. |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 49 Registered: May-05 | I could say something about pastors and ripping clothes off, but I won't go there... ...Wait a minute, pastors get married right? Never mind, I was thinking about priests and boys... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3952 Registered: May-04 | I try not to think about priests and boys; it's like thinking of George Bush and the US economy. Besides, why think about priests and boys when we have 24/7 coverage of Michael Jackson and boys? |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 87 Registered: Apr-04 | Don't go there, Jan... |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 51 Registered: May-05 | Did I open a can of worms? |
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Bronze Member Username: Justme123Post Number: 42 Registered: Mar-05 | MA; I have the Axiom 50's for fronts, the 150 center, QS4 surrounds, and the 175 sub. They are running off of a Marantz 8400 in a room size of 11/20 or so, with hardwood flooring, and lathe and plaster walls. I am more than pleased with their tone, nor have I experienced any "listener fatigue" that others (that don't even have them) seem to love reporting. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1068 Registered: Jan-05 | Just Me, Nevermind the 'music snobs' because most of them have no idea what they're talking about. Just because they've read a few reviews, they think they're now sound experts even though they have no experience with 'sound-itself'. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3958 Registered: May-04 | Paul - Now you've made me curious. What exactly constitues experience with "sound-itself"? Must I have more than "wine and cheese speakers" to have this experience? Does music count? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1073 Registered: Jan-05 | No, music doesnt count......blehhh. It's all about the theater |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3961 Registered: May-04 | Ionesco and Strindberg I hope; Ibsen is such a bore!!! Why is no one doing Brecht now days? |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 620 Registered: Feb-05 | Even if music didn't count, which for most of us it does, I still want to get every detail from my movies that I can. Since I bought the NAD T763 I hear details in movies that I'd never heard before. Clear holographic surround is truly amazing. And guess what, it doesn't even have to be at ear splitting db's to be appreciated. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 712 Registered: Mar-05 | (whoooooooooshhhhhh!) The sound of Jan's theatre references going way, way over poor Paul's simple yet very hard head. : ) |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3963 Registered: May-04 | eddie, you know the difference between theater and theatre! |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1077 Registered: Jan-05 | Did someone say theatre? ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz AS for the speaker reference, no thanks. I've listened to many over the past six months and all were weak and unimpressive during my shopping spree. I'll stick with what I have thanks.......Heck, if you think bose is a ripoff, you should have heard these terrible KEF towers that I listened to, and they were selling those God awful speakers for $8,000/pr. Thats highway robbery and they should be thrown in prison for such a crime. I'll pass on the overpriced, underperforming paperweights and stick with real speakers. IF I ever get interested in chamber music, maybe I'll lean towards the boutique market. If that happens, I'll be sure to let you all know. When I went to see the new star wars last week, I was shocked and forgot how how pathetic the sound was in a real theater since it's been so long that I went "OUT" to the movies. I cant wait until it's released on DVD so I can hear it on a real system right here at home. I |
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Bronze Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 37 Registered: May-05 | Paul, I, too, went and was completely unimpressed with the sound. Saw the original at the Chinese Theatre in Hollywood on the day it opened and the opening scene with the star destroyer absolutely set the tone for the whole movie. Then, the new one, almost the same scene, and no bass, no reverberation (the good kind) and the rest of the movie suffered because of the almost absent sound system. I'M WITH YOU ON THIS ONE!!! Where can I get those Cerwin Vegas, anyway??? Now, I am kidding ya, you know? Good night all. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3965 Registered: May-04 | Paul - We agree on something. Since you didn't care for your experience out in public listening to speakers or the theater, you are right in thinking you should just stay home. Put on your CV T-shirt and beanie and stay home. |
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Bronze Member Username: Justme123Post Number: 43 Registered: Mar-05 | Paul; My point, since you seem to have missed it, is that most of the posts in this thread are by people that have never even listened to Axioms. If you don't have experience with the products the thread starter is asking about, then how about you abstain from posting a response? Barring that, how about you listen for the POP? It will signal, the first time your crainium, has cleared the bounds of your colon, in quite some time. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1084 Registered: Jan-05 | David, I've recently upgraded to the modern age and bought a SVS PB12-Plus/2 subwoofer in spite of the CVs, and my system has never sounded better. I own all 5 of the older Star Wars DVDs, and all the LFE tracks are awesome. I have no doubt episode 3 will be equally impressive once it's finally released on DVD. JustMe, Yes I got your point. That was my point that people make personal judgments based on anothers 'wacko' opinion. What that 'nutjob reviewer' thinks fatigues and hurts his/her poor little ears might sound perfect to me. Maybe he's just a sissy music snob who prefers tiny lightweight, petite, overpriced, paperweight speakers playing chamber music to avoid getting headaches??? Maybe because his/her ears are so sensitive and cause him/her so much pain while listening to movies, he prefers watching 60 old year one channel 'classics' at low volumes as to not offend or fatigue his/her poor little ears??? Who am I to trust his/her judgement?? We probably have completely different listening habits anyway..... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3976 Registered: May-04 | Still no POP, eh, Paul? Probably you never will hear it. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 685 Registered: Feb-04 | There you have the vital information you require when reading any of Paul's inputs on this side of the forum. He doesn't listen to music. Unless you are interested only in large scale, effects laden video sourced material or small minded, right wing ideology played at mind numbing levels, there isn't much Paul has experience with concerning music. His reference audio system is in his car. Why didn't you say so earlier, Paul? Wow... I just now noticed this... That's something to consider then!` |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1089 Registered: Jan-05 | Jan, Is that the sound 'boutique' speakers make when you attempt to use them in a HT capacity?? They should label cabinet packaging to avoid any confustion......."Use only for chamber music". |
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Bronze Member Username: JimvmLouisiana U.S.A. Post Number: 70 Registered: Apr-05 |  No sissy, boutique, wine & cheese speakers for me! |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1093 Registered: Jan-05 | Hahahahahahah That made me laugh out loud. thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: JimvmLouisiana U.S.A. Post Number: 71 Registered: Apr-05 | While we may not agree much on audio, I did sense that you have a good sense of humor. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 352 Registered: Mar-05 | rotflmao!!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 353 Registered: Mar-05 | yay, can't wait to play sideways on my new system!! |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 354 Registered: Mar-05 | I think this is one of art. |
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Bronze Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 41 Registered: May-05 | You guys are cracking me up. Paul - you have a great sense of humor. That picture of "Paul" was just what I needed to last for another couple of hours at work. ROTFL!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: JimvmLouisiana U.S.A. Post Number: 72 Registered: Apr-05 | I didn't actually say that it was a picture of Paul. Hell, I don't know what Paul looks like. To me, it looks like someone who would shun those tiny little boutique, wine and cheese speakers. I mean, look closely at the guy in the picture. Doesn't he look like the owner of a pair of huge ones (main speakers that is). He also looks like he has a great sense of humor. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 240 Registered: May-05 | Don't beat around the bush go for some JBL the sound of the west coast, and look around get some 15in bass mid ones with a loaded horn these babes will blow your soaks off... Also a JBL 18in sub bass to top it all off, KABOOM! There goes the neighbourhood! |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 91 Registered: Apr-04 | JAN...You're LIGHTYEARS ahead of these boys and wasting your time. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3999 Registered: May-04 | "JAN...You're LIGHTYEARS ahead of these boys and wasting your time." I was once told to constantly look over my shoulder as they may be catching up. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 94 Registered: Apr-04 | LOL!!!, JAN. I admire your Audio insight and your humor too! Rick |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 362 Registered: Mar-05 | you want him huh rick? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4004 Registered: May-04 | joe - Everybody wants a piece of me. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 367 Registered: Mar-05 | Your head must have it's own weather system. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 96 Registered: Apr-04 | Jan, If your hunky and hairy with a moustache... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4010 Registered: May-04 | Sorry, none of the above. |
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mileysubet Unregistered guest | Just listen if you like it go with it. posts like this just confuse the situation. Axiom has a no questions asked refund/return policy......real easy. |
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Unregistered guest | this post has turned .....well dumb. If you have questions about the axiom line just call them, the customer question line is absoulutly amazing. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 151 Registered: Apr-04 | Getting back on track!!!!!!!!!! I owned both M60 and M3ti Axioms that I replaced with Wharfedale 9.6. I did this because my ears were experiencing fatigue after long listening. They are quite bright and very detailed but did not sound natural to me. The mid range was over blown and the highs were tinny. I don't want to knock this company as they are Canadian and offer excellent service even though I experienced a few blunders, they always made me feel I was being taken care of. The Wharfedales came to me by surprise as one day I was in Montreal and decided to go around some high end shops and came to one spot where the salesman was very nice to let me experiment. He had ranges up to 10000$ dollars but kept talking about this new line that he felt was going to sell well. I listened to them compared to some higher end stuff and was very amazed especially the bass response. They have 2 8" woofers, a mid range dome and a small dome tweeter with 200 watts of power capability. The finish is exceptional for this price and they are big and very heavy with gold binding posts that rival speakers 3 times their price. To make a long story short, he basically sold me items based around my equipment (NAD) and was one of the only saleseman that said NAD was the best in their price range (even though they did not sell them!)I went to other stores that would push Cambridge Audio at me but I am not a fan of theirs other than DVD players......I can get them where I live now and have listened to them over and over but did not enjoy the thin sound. Once again to finish up, AXIOM is okay but only for those that like a bright thin sound that is somewhat harsh. The M60's for example are in the exact same price as the Wharfedales but they weigh about 15 pounds less, have less fit and finish and less tight bass. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 113 Registered: Apr-04 | I received the Axiom M50Ti's a couple days ago... If you like the sound of Paradigm, you'll like Axiom too. |
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