Yet another bookshelfs vs floorstanders thread...but with a twist!
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george_k Unregistered guest | I thinking of upgrading from my current speakers B&W 603/S3's to either a pair of 705 bookshelfs or 704 floor standers. There is a 30 watt power handling difference between the 704's and 705's and the 704's extend about 10 hz lower in frequency compared to the 705's. My Receivers' Low Pass Filter is fixed at 80hz so I'm guessing that since these lower frequencies will be sent to the sub. Taking this fixed crossover frequency into consideration will there be any benefit to choosing the floorstanders over the bookshelfs? |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 606 Registered: Feb-04 | Save me looking it up and tell me the frequencies. If it's for music, you might do without the sub with the floorstanders? |
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george_k Unregistered guest | B&W 705 46hz-25khz +/- 3dB -6dB @ 43hz Power handling 50-120W B&W 704 40hz-25khz +/- 3dB -6dB @ 30hz Power handling 50-150W Music/HT I'd say 40/60 |
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george_k Unregistered guest | Hey Peter, When listening to music I don't really mind the difference between floorstanders (and no sub) or bookshelfs (with sub) I was thinking that since my crossover is fixed at 80hz I would really benefit from the lower frequency extention of the 704's since the sub will be doing the duty. The price difference between the two is about $500, should I pump that into the 704's anyway or would I be better off spending it somewhere else? |
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george_k Unregistered guest | Hey Peter, When listening to music I don't really mind the difference between floorstanders (and no sub) or bookshelfs (with sub) I was thinking that since my crossover is fixed at 80hz would I really benefit from the lower frequency extention of the 704's? The sub will be doing the duty below 80 hz anyway no? The price difference between the two is about $500, should I pump that into the 704's anyway or would I be better off spending it somewhere else? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3829 Registered: May-04 | The difference will be minimal, if at all distinguishable, in terms of the specs you have provided. The power handling is inconsequential since the additional power handling amounts to about 1db difference in volume. If you need more power handling, this is not where to get it. There are other things to consider such as the drivers that go into the different speakers. If they are the same, the difference will be in the larger floorstanding speakers typically not be able to "disappear" as well as the smaller speakers. If everything else is equal, then this apppears to be a basically lateral move similar to trading in your '05 Accord LX for an '05 Accord Special Edition. I'd take your money and it put toward a much better cause such as a food bank or an animal shelter. A little charity toward others always makes your hifi sound much better. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 608 Registered: Feb-04 | George, The 704 do in fact go quite a bit lower when looking at the -6 dB point. Also, these speakers will outlast your current receiver, and your next one will surely have a selection of crossover points. You might end up using a crossover point of 40 Hz for the 704, and 60 Hz with the others. The power handling difference is negligeable. But do listen to them. Jan is right when he says that sometimes smaller speaker image better. The reverse is true in my case from my 'upgrade' last week. My current bigger speakers (using all the same drivers and identical crossover) image better, and at the same time have lower tight bass. So it's not a universal rule. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 609 Registered: Feb-04 | Why do you want to upgrade? What are you looking for in the upgrade? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3835 Registered: May-04 | Everyone gets to decide how to spend their own money, but as long as the X-over point is fixed at 80Hz, the difference between a speaker which rolls off the bass at 46Hz and one that rolls off at 30Hz is of no consequence. First, be aware of the amount of information that you are likely to find beneath 46Hz: http://psbspeakers.com/FrequenciesOfMusic.html Secondly, be aware that neither speaker will see either of those cut off frequencies as long as you are telling the processor there is a sub in the system. Even if you crossed the system at 40Hz, you would still be within the range of the smaller speaker before any significant roll off would occur. Thirdly, be aware that the room gain of the system will add about half an octave in most cases to the lowest frequency you will hear from your speakers. That puts the in room cut off of your current speakers in the mid 30Hz range should you decide to run them full range. Fourth, you can have too much bass for any given room. While everyone has their own taste to deal with, many people would prefer better bass to just more bass. Fifth, if you haven't heard the two sepakers side by side, that is where you should begin. The forum can give you a few facts and a handful of opinions, but it is what you hear which will make the decision. As Peter asks; what are you thinking? |
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george_k Unregistered guest | Well my dealer is offering me full value for my current speakers if I decide to upgrade. I want to improve upon midrange of my current speakers which is definately what the 700 series has over the 600 series. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1005 Registered: Jan-05 | Naw.... To hell with both the food bank and animal shelter. Put the extra $500 into your system. Offering handouts to happless doesnt solve anything. Rather than offering a fish as a handout to the hungry, we should offer fishing lessons instead so they can fend for themselves. The only problem with that is that they're probably too lazy to try catching their own since it's much easier picking up freebies at the food bank. |
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Bronze Member Username: MauimusicmanPost Number: 69 Registered: Apr-05 | I wholeheartedly agree Paul. I saw a homeless guy on the sidewalk the other day begging for food. I acted like I was going to give him a buck (which he probably would have used for booze), but instead kicked him in the head and left him laying there unconscious. After that I got in my Mercedes S55 and laughed at him as I drove away. Thats what those filthy vermin deserve. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3839 Registered: May-04 | Shameless hedonism and conspicuous consumption, that's what got us where we are today. Now we know how Paul spent his $300 tax refund. Despite Paul's adherence to the new fiscal conservative side of deficit spending, I believe now you are definitely asking for advice no one on this forum can honestly give you. My guess would be most of us on the forum consider $500 to be a chunk of change. Obviously B&W feel the difference is there or they wouldn't build the separate lines. But how much you hear vs. what you will spend and whether that money could be put to better use elsewhere is really something only you can decide. The 600 series is obviously B&W's high value line, so from there you get into diminishing returns on the dollar spent. But if you hear the improvement and feel it's worth $500, then you should decide based on how much you think that amount of improvement is worth. And don't worry about anyone going hungry because the food bank had to shut down. Paul's plan is to feed the little critters from the animal shelter to the homeless. Sort of kills two birds with one stone, eh, Paul? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3840 Registered: May-04 | So I guess the question is; do you hear $500 worth of improvement? |
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Bronze Member Username: MauimusicmanPost Number: 73 Registered: Apr-05 | Ohh lets not beat up on poor Paul. He has a point that it is better to teach a man to fish than to just give him a single fish. So how many people have you taught to fish Paul? Hundreds I'm sure. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 99 Registered: May-05 | Wow you must be a big guy with little respect for human life, do hope you are joking, I really do hope so. Hitting on a defenceless person, that's an assault I believe you can face three to four months in prison for that little stunt. |
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Bronze Member Username: MauimusicmanPost Number: 74 Registered: Apr-05 | Actually I threw a wad of 100's at a cop who tried to give me trouble for it. He magically disappeared. Yes it was a joke, though. Not only would I face criminal charges where I'm sure the they would throw the book at me, I would likely face a pretty good sized civil lawsuit (assault, battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, etc) as well for hitting someone hard enough to render them unconscious. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 100 Registered: May-05 | Your are one sick puppy, for a moment there you had me convinced. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 101 Registered: May-05 | I thought this was about loudspeakers, not fantasising on beating up the poor, so loudspeakers, gentlemen lets talk shop shall we. |
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Bronze Member Username: MauimusicmanPost Number: 75 Registered: Apr-05 | Basically, as Jan and Peter have stated, George needs to listen to the loudspeakers in question and decide which he prefers, and if it is worth the cost of the upgrade to buy them. There is little to nothing anyone here can do for him. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 102 Registered: May-05 | That's a fair comment I agree, though I would say George matching B&W for the three screen fronts, I have a friend who as the B&W DM602 and the centre is a DD!something 6? DM CC6 that's it I think, to replace the CC 5!! Though I have heard the CC 5 many times not good a centre channel has there the competition for DME is ruined with mismatching dialogue music effects all play a big part in the centre channel that radiates out nicely with a matching threesome I have been using three screen channel JBL control 5 for 16 years now and the only time I would mismatch the centre is when I have lost the plot, though not there yet. If you like your B&W DM 603 keep hold of them and get a third for the centre channel set all three loudspeakers up at the same height and aim them downwards to the centre point in the room and there will be a Hugh difference in over all performance, also I believe they are bi-wireable get 2x active X-over units with multi crossover function also three stereo amplifiers as well, will be needed, look around I'm sure you can pick a few things up for the same cost or less than new loudspeakers, also passive crossovers suck big time ekk, err. Yuck P.S. with an active X-over will be like listening to new, if not better loudspeakers the sound will disappear into this self creating a whole new dimension in sound pleasure. Ashley |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 103 Registered: May-05 | This is a common misunderstanding in the home cinema arena, full range=full dynamic range, what do you think they do in the cinema with there full range loudspeakers, home cinema is meant to replicate this practice as close as possible. If my room was larger I would have full spectrum loudspeakers for left centre and right, but seeing I'm using three matching loudspeakers and following the rules with out mismatching. George you are half way there a third B&W DM 603, I bet there so choice and if I was you I would not hesitate, not for one moment. Don't compromise the centre channel competition, and later realising that, I what to up grade there front loudspeakers to the same affair all over again, mad it's your money if you won't to throw it away. Ashley |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1007 Registered: Jan-05 | "And don't worry about anyone going hungry because the food bank had to shut down. Paul's plan is to feed the little critters from the animal shelter to the homeless. Sort of kills two birds with one stone, eh, Paul?" LOL Jan Nobody deserves a freebie. Not even if it's dogmeat. That was a hilarious statement though. thanks  |
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george_k Unregistered guest | I plan on going in for an audition on Wednesday, I was looking for a little insight but I guess with speakers it's too subjective to be able to draw any sort of generalized conclusions. I agree that $500 is definately not a lot of money for B&W's. But $500 is definately 1/4 of the way towards a new power amp or subwoofer. I guess I'll see where that extra $500 will be better spent. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 625 Registered: Mar-05 | whoa, maui here has the best damn sense of humor I've ever seen on this board! encore, encore!!! |
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