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New member Username: ViveksinghPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 | We went to a local audio store last weekend. We brought some jazz and classical music CDs and really liked the following configuration (all speakers are paradigm and they really have good sound) Monitor 7 front speakers CC 370 center channel ADP 170 surround speakers Sub: PW 2100 I am quite new in this area (first speaker sets in my life) and have several questions 1. do you guys think this is a good combination for movie and music? our budget is about US$2500, and would like to get the biggest bang of buck. 2. the salesperson told me that he thinks we can use less expensive subwoofer like PDR 10 or PDR 12 (he said he doesn't like very strong bass and he thinks the really strong bass distort the sound). We didn't notice a big difference in the audition by switching through those subs. What do you guys think? 3. About receiver, during audition the rotel one was used. However, it is way too expensive for us (our budget is about US$2500). The salesperson suggested Denon AVR 2105 or 2805. I read some posts in this board claiming these receivers are not powerful enough to drive those speakers. Is that true? 4. My friend told me that I can pay much less to buy same speaker sets in Canada. I am in Portland Oregon, which is about 3.5 hours north of the border so theoretically I can drive to, say, Vancouver BC, to buy those speakers. Do you have any suggestions if this makes sense? Thanks for any suggestions! Vivek |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 534 Registered: Mar-05 | If you want "biggest bang for the buck," buying from a local shop is NOT the way to do it---you can get far better prices and quality online for not only the speakers but also the receiver and subwoofer. What's your total overall budget, $2500 for speakers and sub plus $2500 for the receiver/amp or $2500 for everything? How big is your listening room? What kind of setup are you looking for, 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1? What % music vs. HT use? Music is normal CDs or SACD/DVD-A? |
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New member Username: ViveksinghPost Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | Thanks for your reply. I am not sure how I can buy those speakers online. The salesperson indicated that paradigm doesn't allow on-line sales. I sure can buy from ebay, but all of those are used (so not sure the quality and warranty, etc.) If you can point to a website that I can buy it will G...REAT! My budget breakdown is $2000 for speaker, and ~$500 for recevier (I realize that I can buy Denon 2105 for about $400 online), but I suppose I can go a little bit over as long as my wife approves:-) I am actually not sure about the room size. I will have to check. I am looking for 5.1. The room was pre-wired for 5.1 before I move in. I should say 50%/50% for music v.s. HT. Music source is normal CD Thanks Vivek |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 535 Registered: Mar-05 | Paradigm is not availabe online as far as I know, though they are often compared to Ascend speakers which are Internet direct. Here are some threads on other forums, you might want to do search there for additonal ones: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=881&highlight=paradigm+ascend http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=539425&highlight=ascend+paradigm http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=230122&highli ght=paradigm+ascend Here's one possibility: L/C/R: Ascend 340s, SL/SR: Ascend 170s, SUB: Hsu VTF-2 for $1650 shipped from ascendacoustics.com If you want to save a little money instead of getting the 170s for your surrounds you can just get a $100/pair Polk R15s since they do maybe 10% of the work during HT and normal CDs sound best on 2.1 or 2.0 anyway. Harman Kardon 635 receiver, $750 shipped from jandr.com (about $200-300 less if you buy refurb from Harman Direct on eBay, full original warranty included). The 635 is about equivalent to the Denon 3805 in power and features. They have the 435 for $600 shipped too. That leaves you with plenty of money left over for speaker stands, wall mounts, cables, interconnects, etc. and will equal if not surpass the Paradigm setup you were looking at. BTW that salesperson's recommendation for you to buy a weaker sub is totally ridiculous. Hasn't he ever heard of a gain knob? If the sub is overwhelming the speakers, you just turn it down a little that's all. Maybe he gets a higher markup on the PDR subs than the PWs. |
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Bronze Member Username: CindarnColumbus, IN USA Post Number: 13 Registered: Apr-05 | On one of the threads in this forum it was mentioned that you might go to the Paradigm web site and search for Canadian dealers by putting in Canadian zip code-then you could call them and see if they have what you want, etc. |
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Bronze Member Username: GtsumVA Post Number: 31 Registered: Mar-04 | Vivek - For what you are looking to spend, I believe you are right on target with those choices! I actually had the same setup (except I had a Servo 15). The Paradigm's are quite neutral and perform well with most types of music. Good luck! Also, I would go with the PW sub over the PDR - big difference what a better sub can make...it will really open up your sound... |
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New member Username: ViveksinghPost Number: 3 Registered: May-05 | Thanks guys. The suggestions are quite useful. I plan to make some phone calls to Seattle stores as well as Vancouver stores and see if their price is cheapers. |
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Anonymous | What cindy said is ABSOLUTELY true. If youre close to the Canadian border buy the speakers there. You will save 30-50% off US prices from authorized Paradigm dealers. It is no scam. Get the list of dealers from the Paradigm website. Do a google search for the Canadian postal code of the city youre near and then plug it into the dealer locator. They will only quote you "list prices" over the phone. Even these will be about 20-25% below US price due to the exchange rate and the fact that you don't have to pay the Canadian duty. The dealer I talked to said he'd beat $450 for a cc470 by a considerable amount. Good luck. |
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Anonymous | Sorry, I meant what Cinda said not Cindy... |
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Anonymous | Also for a sub it seems as though SVS or HSU is the way to go although they are internet only so I havent been able demo them. However everyone that buys them seem to think theyre great and cheaper than the Paradigm, even with the Canadian dealer's discount. |
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havemorals Unregistered guest | You should consider buying from your local dealer. He introduced you to some incredible speakers. I am sure you used his time, his showroom, and his demo models to find that the Pardigms are great speakers. If you are pleased with what he showed you, he's EARNED your business. You get the added advantages that he CARES about your happiness with your purchase, he will actually listen and respond to your needs and concerns, he can offer great experience to help you get the most out of your system, you have a door to knock on if something goes wrong, and the manufacturer will support you if you buy from an authorized dealer. Imagine a world where you have to buy all your audio gear over the net without ever getting to hear it....That's exactly what will happen if people continue to waste dealers time and resources without rewarding them with a purchase. It costs him money to let you walk in with a stack of CD's and listen to his demo models. Pay him. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 502 Registered: Feb-05 | I lost a lot of bucks in shipping by buying from SVS. It's your money. Anonymous if you listen to music consider other subs. I'm sending my SVS back and buying a B&W. Much luck. hm, I couldn't agree more. There is nothing better than working with a good dealer. |
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New member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | Vivek - If your buying Paradigms in Canada and using them in the US, the warantee will most likely be voided. Whenever I've taken the time to actually read a warantee card (not too often) there is always a clause saying something like the product has to be used in the country in which it was purchased. Paradigm is a very good and reputable company, but that doesn't mean their products are 100% free from defects. If your investing a lot of money (as we all know the hobby is expensive), you need to be covered by a warantee of some sort. |
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Anonymous | First of all, have morals. The mark up on a set of paradigms is 100% for what, to spend an hour listening to some speakers. where does it go...to the person who spent the time with you showing you the speakers?...no to the owner who was home washing his BMW. As far as the warranty is concerned, there is NO warranty issue if you buy the speakers in Canada and bring them to the states. Do yourself a favor and put the extra money you save by "screwing" your local dealer to more epuipment. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sr_immortalPost Number: 27 Registered: Mar-05 | Actually I was in the same crowd as Anonymous up there and others, about buying the products online and saving a few hundred dollars. But my paradigm dealer, the owner, has literally in the past 3 months spent atleast 50-75 hours of just one on one time with me. And he did earn my business. He also had a deal where I could upgrade my speakers and or recievers in 6 months or less and get 100% trade in value. And because of that I went from titans, atoms, and CC170 to the monitor series, to, now, Studio 20s, CC470 and ADP 470s. You will be much happier in the long run by buying it from a local dealer. If they really do care, you will get wisdom and knowledge from these people that is really priceless in this hobby of ours. Plus, those that think these speaker dealers make boat loads of cash are just ignorant (not trying to offend you, but it is the truth). These guys sell this stuff cause they love it. You wouldnt believe how much overhead these guys have, with rent, electric (costs a lot to run all these powerful electonics everyday), advertising and all sort of things. I have a much higher profit margin from the Oreck stores that I own. One store may sell $30,000 worth of merchandise. You know how much money I make of that? $3000 give or take a few hundred. And keep in mind that my profit margin for selling vacuums, air purifiers and other products are much higher than selling speakers and peripherals. Now even if he sells "exotic" cables and such, like Monster or Audioquest, he is doing so just because there are no questions whether or not htey are good cables. But even my paradigm dealer sells me those cables and interconnects at cost. He showed me his purchase orders and invoices from monster. So support your local community, support your state, and by all means support your Country! If everybody was like Anonymous over here, people would all save 10-20% on everything we bought, but in the end, our economy would suffer so bad we woudl become a 3rd world country over night. THere is a reason why older (wiser) people like to buy american made products. But by even buying a Canadian made product in the states, you will have still contributed to raising the level of our economy, and if everybody thought this way, we would all eventually get better paying jobs that would make up for the extra cash you spent by buying these things in your country and community by 100x or more a year. Support your local dealers, or you wont have local dealers to go audition these wonderful speakers at all... God Bless America! |
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Bronze Member Username: CindarnColumbus, IN USA Post Number: 18 Registered: Apr-05 | For what it's worth...we ended up buying our Paradigms from a dealer in Indianapolis and have absolutely no regrets. Our dealer literally moved components from other showrooms so that we could audition the system with exactly the speakers/receiver we were considering. This man has been in the industry for 30 years...his knowledge base and tech support were invaluable. We can trade up later if we want. We've called him from home with setup questions...no problem-he's more than happy to help us "newbies." We also had trouble finding the right hardware to hang our back speakers, if you can imagine that. We called him to see if he knew of a source and he said, "Hold on..I want to check something." He came back on the phone and said, "I have a set on a pair of speakers here..I can either mail them to you or you can drive up and I'll give them to you. Which would be best for you?" I can't believe how "newbie" we were in the begining but we were never criticized/humiliated in our learning process...I agree with Joshua. These guys do what they do because they love it. He was enthusiastic/supportive of us as we made our choices, and I don't think that enthusiasm was based on his profit margin. We also weren't pressured in any way. He simply started with playing different speakers for us and said, "What sounds good to You? What do you like/don't like about this sound?" Did we get the absolute lowest price available? Maybe not. But, he negotiated what I feel was a very attractive price, and we feel that the ongoing support we have is more important than saving a few bucks. |
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New member Username: PasarOregon City, OR USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-05 | Hi Vivek, What a coincidence! I'm in Portland and considering buying Paradigm speakers with decent subwoofer and a mid-range receiver at the same budget range as yours! Sooo...I'm curious to know what you ended up doing. Cheers. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 734 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi Pam, if you are buying Paradigm you are probably doing at Fred's Sound of Music where the best deals on Paradigm can be had in Portland. Before you do it go and see Teri Inman at Stereotypes she has great gear and a great environment to listen to it in. Take your favorite music she will make you feel at home. I am a Paradigm owner and love my speakers but if I could afford it I would buy my whole system from Teri. Any questions feel free to email me or post here. |
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the real maui Unregistered guest | Art Kyle, explain to the forum how and why you would be advising them to purchase a speaker with 180 degree's of phase shift? A speaker that smears the time signiture of the music cannot possibly sound real. Worse still, these speakers you suggest have varying degree's of phase shft as the music moves away from the crossover point. Explain how this can possibly sound like music Art. And please, be technical. I DID warn you. Perhaps "Fred's Sound Of Music" can assist you in your answer, Art. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 736 Registered: Feb-05 | Maui I repeat...read for comprehension, it will carry you far. Maui I am not technical, never have been and never will be, and I am proud of it. I do have a certificate in electronics manufacturing and used to work at Hewlett-Packard before becoming a social worker, but for me audio is not about the technical it's about what I hear, what I have access to, and what I can afford. I don't think most folks want to hear about smearing anyway but if they do perhaps you can register and let them email you like they do me. |
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the real maui Unregistered guest | Art, well then Bravo........by all means use that certificate. Baffle us with your wisdom. Again, I did give you the chance to quit......................Audio is very technical Art. Amazingly so. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 742 Registered: Feb-05 | Audio is not at all technical. I worked at Hewlett Packard and the engineers there would say that ink jet printers are very technical...yes if you are designing them. If you are doing a printing job you just want the damn thing to work satifactorily. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 283 Registered: May-05 | Oh my god it's that thing the real Maui, man why don't you go and throw yourself off a cliff, and put a sock in it, you creep! |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 101 Registered: Apr-04 | Oye, Another thread degenerates into a cat fight. |
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Somed00d Unregistered guest | Havemorals, He only listened at one shop ( i assume) and therefore doesnt know if hes found the best deal/sound yet. Id advise him to go to other dealers and listen to many more different speakers, then he will be ready to choose the speaker he really likes. Buying from the first dealer just because he gave good service is a recipe for audio disaster. If i go into a dealer i expect that he will let me listen to whatever gear I want for however long i need . If he doesnt i will leave and never come back. You are under the false impression we owe dealers something. |