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New member Username: MrbegntPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-04 | Real DD 6.1 or DD 7.1 or is it a marketing trick? Is there any HT receiver today that really can decode discrete channels in DD 6.1 or DD 7.1 format (Not Matrix) from a DVD or digital cable box through "digital" input? Is every receiver today only a 5.1 with an added amplified Matrix sound channel and that can't decode real 6.1 or 7.1 sound without changing the whole receiver (DVD, Cable Box) even if it says 6.1 and 7.1 on the specs? My reason for this is, it feels like a step back when you have to combine a new technique (real Discrete 5.1 sound) with a half and half Dolby Surround technique (Matrix sound channels). I know you can get DTS-ES discrete 6.1 but can this do DTS-ES 7.1 discrete sound without having to buy a new receiver or can this be done through a firmware upgrade? And does this mean you have to replace everything from DVD to Cable box? One more thing, that is no TV station sends out anything other than DD which is only 5.1 discrete channel sound. I don't now if this makes any sense but I hope someone understands what I mean. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 32 Registered: Feb-04 | I think I understand and YES, Receivers decode in discrete 6.1 & 7.1. I think the problem is there really isn't media out there to support these functions. As I have been told there is some 6.1 but very little and 7.1 is virtually non-existent. So if you have a 6.1 or 7.1 system with all of the speakers to support it, the only way to really utilize the speakers is to matrix. So this tells me if your shopping around and on a budget you can save a few bucks and go with a 5.1 system for now until the availability of 6.1 or 7.1 formatted material is more prevalent. Personally I have a T773 7.1 but like most brands, you get more than just extra channels when you step up their product line and I wasn't trying to budget. If I mis-staed anything here folks fell free to correct me. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 161 Registered: Dec-03 | JDG, Right on the money. There are only a few 6.1 format sources (DVD's) out there. You can tell what these are by looking for the Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES logos. There are NO 7.1 DVD's out there that I know of. The only media that offers 7.1 that I can think of is DVD-Audio, but even then, I am not for sure as I am not very informed about DVD-A and its uses. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 305 Registered: Dec-03 | mrbegnt, It is a good question you ask. The number of channels on receivers is creeping up, and I don't think enough people think critically about what they are for. Two surrounds behind you will give a complete rear stereo sound field. The centre channel at the front is there because DVD-videos are mostly recorded that way, with a special channel for dialogue. Why we need a special channel right behind us, I do not know. What may be more important that the matrixed sixth channel is the fact that 5.1 receivers do not fail to reproduce the centre surround channel on the very rare 6.1 discs: they distribute it equally between the left and right surrounds. I rarely disagree with Johnny, but I do not know of a DVD-A disc with more than 5.1 channels. Many music DVD-A discs do not actually use the front centre channel, even if they say 5.1 on the label (and some say 4.1, 5.0, or 4.0). This is because accommodating an odd channel causes more problems than it solves if you are interested re-creating a realistic sound stage from a genuine musical performance. Movie soundtracks are different, of course. But I cannot imagine 6.1 offering much over 5.1. I admit I have not heard it. As regards 7.1 - where do you actually put the speakers, and why? I could see an argument for 8.1 (four corners and four "centres" between them) - but even then only if you believe stereo fails to give a good linear sound stage. For me, it does. |
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Bronze Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 12 Registered: Feb-04 | DTS-ES Discrete is the only real 6.1 system. In DD-EX and DTS-ES Matrix the surround back is always matrixed in the side surrounds. Discrete 7.1 systems are inexistant. When playing DTS-ES 6.1 with a 7.1 receiver the two surround backs play the same mono signal. When playing DTS-ES 6.1 with a 5.1 receiver the signal of the surround back wont be played, so some sound info is lost. 7.1 is used with Logic7 and PL2x DSPs. They can create discrete surround backs, but I dont see the point in that. DSP are not so good for anything, but if somebody wants to use them, 5.1 should be enough. Also some computer soundcards have the ability to make discrete 7.1 sound (ex. Audigy2 ZS). It could be possible to have 7.1 DVD-A, but I haven't seen any titles nor players supporting that. |
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Bronze Member Username: HeffPost Number: 91 Registered: Dec-03 | Check out this link to see what DTS-ES DVD's are available in your region. Þ DTS |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 165 Registered: Dec-03 | John A., landroval, Thank you for correcting my error. As I said, I don't have a DVD-A player, and thus far have never checked into it at all. I know that my NAD 762 receiver has an external 7.1 analog input, so I guess I assumed (you know what happens when you assume?) that there might be some disks out there that were encoded in 7.1. I really had no basis for my statement other than that. How does that work then, with an external 7.1 input for DVD-A? What happens to the channels that aren't used? Are they matrixed by the receiver just like with DVD Videos? Obviously I have a lot to learn about DVD-Audio. |
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Bronze Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 14 Registered: Feb-04 | If you play 5.1 DVD-A with 5.1 DVD-A player and amplify it with 7.1 receiver you will hear it in 5.1. Every DVD-A player that I have seen has only 5.1 out, so when plugged to the AV-receivers 7.1 input the surround backs will be unused. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 33 Registered: Feb-04 | Funny thing is, there was a thread going around several weeks ago that turned into a debate as to whether the Yamaha RX-V2400 could be adapted to 9.1 or not. In light of it all, with the current state of affairs (limited media), what would it really benefit? My kids will probably laugh at my 7.1 system some day as their 12.3 rocks the neighborhood :0) |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 311 Registered: Dec-03 | But remember their 12.3 will have to be backwardly compatible with 7.1, 5.1, 2.0 (stereo) and even 1.0 (mono). But you won't be able to play their 12.3 discs on you old 7.1 system. Will that be a big loss....? |