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Anonymous | what is the best satellite speakers? Or another brand under $1200.00 thanks |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 415 Registered: Feb-05 | Era makes a great satellite or small bookshelf speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 464 Registered: Mar-05 | Bose? I'd sooner get the $300 Athena Micra system than Bose...biggest marketing scam in audio. |
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Varit Unregistered guest | Orb Audio hands down. Definitely a great value and way, way better than even the most expensive Bose system. They don't have the deficiencies of the Bose system (price, midrange, low end) and are great for both music and movies. When you close your eyes, you swear you are listening to big speakers. Regardless of your choice, go w/ one of the online/direct companies. You can get yourself something that would retail for $2500 for your $1200. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 903 Registered: Jan-05 | Yea, I bet small 'micros' sound as good as the real thing. |
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Mark McIntosh Unregistered guest | Have you listened to the Orbs? They are the first speakers I have listened to, and I have listened to some fairly expensive speakers, that have convinced me to trade in my 20 year old KEFS. Don't knock them if you haven't tried them. |
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New member Username: NossusCT Post Number: 10 Registered: Nov-04 | You should read through this post for Orb reviews and comparisons to Bose: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/9497.html |
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New member Username: AudiomanNew york Post Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | BOSE= buy other sterio equipment. terrible |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Bose is excellent, but only someone with a trained ear can appreciate it. Don't let these guys tell you any different. How do you think they got to be the most respected name in sound? By being crap? I don't think so. No amount of marketing could help a product if it was as bad as these people make Bose out to be. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 562 Registered: Mar-05 | Diana, I just read the exact same remarks in another shill review on Amazon. How's Bose paying you these days? Hope you don't get outsourced any time soon, LOL. |
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Andronicus Dragon Unregistered guest | Let us remember that beauty in sound is in the ears of the listener. <g> I much prefer Klipsch. RSX4's or RSX5's from thier Reference Series make great sats, there is a matching centre also. I have taken the 4's and am using them with a Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 sub. To me the sound is great. |
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ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest | *Bose is excellent, but only someone with a trained ear can appreciate it. Don't let these guys tell you any different. How do you think they got to be the most respected name in sound? By being crap? I don't think so. No amount of marketing could help a product if it was as bad as these people make Bose out to be.* If that's not the dumbest, it's certainly the funniest thing I've read today. Bose is NOT the most respected name in sound - in fact there's very little respect for Bose EXCEPT for their marketing. Bose is inexplicably POPULAR, but popularity and respect are 2 entirely different things. It is the job of marketing folk to convince people that your product is what they want, and Bose's marketing people have done a tremendous job of telling people that they want Bose. The problem is that so many people are mindless sheep who just accept that. This also explains why Budweiser is the most popular beer in America. Anyone with eardrums (or tastebuds) can find a vastly superior product with minimal effort. |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | Hey Diana, If BOSE is soooo good how come they refuse to publish their speakers specs??? No respected company would ever hide that kind of information from the consumer.....Maybe you can get the specs and share them with us all? Ohhhh wait a minute! I just found them on their website Speakers: • 12 3/4"H x 21 1/16"W x 12 3/4"D • (32.4 x 53.3 x 32.4 cm) • 35 lbs. (16 kg) Equalizer: • 2 1/2"H x 13"W x 5"D • (6.4 x 33 x 12.6 cm) • 3 2/5 lbs. (1.5 kg) What a Joke !!! |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 586 Registered: Feb-04 | No amount of marketing could help a product if it was as bad as these people make Bose out to be. Sure it could, just look at Bose! Oh wait a minute! Look at Microsoft! :-) |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Respected companies just bend the specs to make their products look good. Also, Bose does actually publish specs for its professional products. Several people here tout how useless most specs are. Bose simply doesnt bother with them for that reason; they just let people decide whether or not they like the sound. Judging from their sales, it sounds like they have been fairly successful. As for Microsoft, no one has risen to challenge them. Linux lacks user friendliness, and for a long time had issues with hardware compatibility. That is beside the point however. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 588 Registered: Feb-04 | The point about Microsft is that sales doesn't translate to quality. Same for Bose. They don't publish specs because they wouldn't be very good; there's no reason to not bother with them unless that it is the case. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | You don't think Bose could just put 20Hz-20kHz like any other manufacturer, like on the SDAT website for example? As for Microsoft, name something markedly superior that retains user friendliness. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 578 Registered: Mar-05 | Diana, you don't seem to have ever heard of Apple Computer. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Apple's products are not direct competitors to Windows. Besides, having worked with a few, their OS doesnt appear to be any better than Windows XP, which isn't half bad, especially for MS. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 591 Registered: Feb-04 | You don't think Bose could just put 20Hz-20kHz like any other manufacturer, like on the SDAT website for example? But then they'd be lying, just like the SDAT web page (unless they omitted a -/+ dB range). If they don't publish them, they can't get called on them. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | There are several manufacturers that omit the tolerance. There are several manufacturers that outright lie. Its actually nice for a change that instead of lying, Bose just omits it completely. Specs arent important. The sound is important. If you like the sound, specs be damned. If you dont like the sound, you still wouldn't buy the product if it had good specs. And again, they do post specs for their professional products, some of which have very similar driver layouts to their regular product lines, particularly the 901. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 592 Registered: Feb-04 | There are several manufacturers that omit the tolerance. Respected ones? There are several manufacturers that outright lie. Respected ones? Its actually nice for a change that instead of lying, Bose just omits it completely. Rationalize it that way if you wish... Specs arent important. The sound is important. And the fact that Bose frown upon dealers that allow side-by-side comparisons with other brands make it difficult to evaluate it for most comsumers. They just see the million dollar advertising and figure it must be good. Anyway, I'm done arguing with an anonymous user. You haven't convinced me (and I'll let others decide for themselves) and you've used up your allotted anonymous time for me. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | It largely depends on your definition of respected. One can go to Best Buy and do a side by side comparison quite easily with Klipsch, JBL, Athena, etc. As for your decision to not continue this conversation, its a shame, but I will get over it. |
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Anonymous | My dealer showed my some Bose speakers. I was impressed when he told me what a marketing breakthrough they were and bought them. Once I got them home they didn't sound too good though. I went back to the dealer and he sold me some Lio Ekans cable at $350 a foot. Now they sound great. Even better than my Aiwas. |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | So, Diana, you can argue and word it as beautiful as you wish....reality is: BOSE speakers are really not that good especially at those ridiculous prices. I sense that you have not had the opportunity to listen to other brands; there are at least 20 different manufactures that make products far better than BOSE. Luckily everyone is free to make their chose and you have made yours but you cannot convince anyone who has had the opportunity to listen to real quality speakers that BOSE is "the most respected name in sound" It is so ludicrous to say that! It is obvious that your knowledge in audio is very very limited By the way, there was a time when I owned BOSE products and I can tell you for experience they really Suck big time ! As for the specs, yes it has been said that you should not buy a speakers based solely on the specs but it is always nice to have the information available to the customer specially to those who are not looking for "Professional Stuff" "Specs arent important. The sound is important" ..... True; so how come you still believe that BOSE are good? I mean can't you really tell ? ...... |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | Oh My God you did not...did you say Best Buy? I rest my case....your knowledge is indeed very limited |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Mentioning Best Buy is a sin now? I couldn't possibly be aware of brands like Paradigm, KEF, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, Martin Logan, B&W, etc, etc because I have stepped foot inside a Best Buy? My goodness Mr. Bunny, you are making some broad generalizations there. BTW, I never actually claimed to own any Bose speakers. However, if someone likes them after reseaching other brands, then it is their decision, specs or no specs. |
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New member Username: BunnyGreater Dallas, Texas Post Number: 1 Registered: May-05 | Of course you can be aware, have you listen to any of them? I mean all those on your list are great speakers, so do you think any of those is better than BOSE? Let me take it back; the comparison is not even fair. We all know the answer. If your opinion is that BOSE is the most respected name in sound, how come you do not own any of their products? Just curious. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Ive listened to all of the above and more. I never stated that it is my express opinion that Bose is the most respected name in sound either. However, they do have a fairly large base of returning, satisfied customers, probably much larger than any of the aforementioned brands. More people probably recognize the Bose name than any other brand in the United States. As a result, while they may not garner much respect in the audiophile community, they are still a respected name in sound to the general public. I pose they couldn't have gotten to where they are today if they consistantly had horrible products without any saving graces. |
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New member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | *Bose is excellent, but only someone with a trained ear can appreciate it. Don't let these guys tell you any different. How do you think they got to be the most respected name in sound? By being crap? I don't think so. No amount of marketing could help a product if it was as bad as these people make Bose out to be.* So you don't think that the audiophile community has trained ears ? Funny, it is the Audiophile community that criticizes BOSE in the first place! Of course BOSE has a lot of returning customers so does Wal-Mart ......Mass Marketing....poor quality Still, BOSE is not as good as the General public may think and if you have auditioned so many good speakers you should know that it's true. Hey Diana, it has been a fun debate, Good luck |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Walmart has fine quality for the price they charge. You'll have to do a little better than that. The audiophile community has its own sets of problems. Some believe that $2000 dollar cables will vastly enhance the performance of a system while others believe it is BS. As a result, I am hard pressed to care what they think on most matters. Im aware that Bose is not the end all, be all; but, it is what it is, and it is arguable that it does have valid niche in the audio market. And yes, it is good debate for a laugh. I do enjoy being the devils advocate. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 581 Registered: Mar-05 | Actually Diana you don't really sound like a "devil's advocate" nor a "troll"---your line of argument is far too disingenuous and well-disciplined, determinedly sticking to one or two simple talking points. You sound more like a very competent PR/Marketing person to me, in particular one who is employed by Bose because your comments---especially your initial post on this thread---are suspiciously similar, word for word, to a couple of painfully obvious Bose SHILL REVIEWS that I've read on Amazon.com Either that or you sell Bose products for a living and feel moved to justify/rationalize yourself against the near-universal disdain that EDUCATED consumers---by which I simply mean anyone who has ever gone out and auditioned a variety of different audio equipment, not necessarily the high-end boutique stuff---have for Bose products. Bose's success is simply a reflection of the power of mass marketing. More saavy audio consumers, and I do not mean affluent audiophiles, don't buy Bose---it's just the clueless masses who fall for the glossy ads, the sleek compact looks, the hyperinflated price which they mistakenly assume will buy them top quality. I have to grant that Bose does know how to exploit consumer stupidity to its fullest advantage. Oh well, I guess we all have to put food on the table somehow, don't we? I don't think you need to justify yourself, just live with whatever you choose to do. Selling crack or heroin would be much worse than selling Bose, IMO. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | I'm sorry to disappoint Edster, but no, Im not employed by Bose, nor do I sell their products for a living at a retail chain. I'm a professional musician! You make it sound like actually crafting and thinking out a decent argument is a bad thing. Would you rather I ranted and raved and gave everyone an easy target to flame? Also, I actually stole a chunk of that first post from a shill review I read on audioreview for some Acoustimass system, if you're interested. Although perhaps that same person posted on Amazon as well. Either way, have a good night Edster. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 583 Registered: Mar-05 | Diana, heh if you really are a professional musician and you like Bose products then I would hate to listen to you perform because your hearing cannot be very good, to say the least. It's a great defense of course, esp. since it's totally unverifiable. On the other hand, Vanilla Ice probably calls himself a professional musician too. Actually you have not been "crafting and thinking out a decent argument" at all---just persistently sticking to one simple mantra over and over again, namely that "Bose cannot be so bad if it sells so well." No craft or thought involved, just persistence is all. In the 1950s I wouldn't be too surprised if some people were paid to say things like, "DDT can't be so bad, if it's used so widely." |
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Zorro Unregistered guest | Yes, Wal-Mart has fine quality for the price they charge, BOSE simply does not...you have to do better than that. Edster is so right, you must be an awful musician...lol ! |
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Anonymous | Diana If you prefer the sound of Bose that is fine but anyone that has any idea of what sounds good knows that Bose doesn!t. I am embarrased for you. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | The funny part is that none of you have actually stated WHY Bose sounds bad or what qualities make their products horrible speakers. You simply state how bad they are with no proof to back it up. I could just as easily state Ascend blows, avoid them at all costs. As for Zorro and Anon, my concern for your pitiful additions to this conversation are 0. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | BTW, I hear Beethoven's hearing wasn't too hot either. I guess he was a pretty bad musician too huh? |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Then again, I guess there isn't too much point in having a discussion with someone who wets his pants and can't set up a stereo system. Good day "gentlemen". |
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Anonymous | Ignorance is bliss |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Another mindless post by anonymous. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 598 Registered: Feb-04 | Hiding behind Diana Krall's name is also anonymous... |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Hmmm... I'd better register or I'll get a fake Maui posting for me. |
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Diana Krall Unregistered guest | You mean like this? Bose is the best! I LOVE Bose! |
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New member Username: Diana_krallPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 | To protect the real Diana Krall, I have registered that name... |
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The Real Diana Krall Unregistered guest | So instead of being able to have a proper argument, you have to degenerate to this. How sad. Peter, everything here has the potential to be anonymous. Even registered nicknames like Edster are still anonymous. Your name could be Bob for all I know. Besides, how do you know my name is not really Diana Krall. Certainly in a world with billions of people there can be room for two or three people with the same name, no? |
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Anonymous | Diana You made a statement that Bose is excellent but they require a trained ear to be able to appreciate them. That is a ridiculous statement. It would be difficult to explain to you why they sound bad, it would be best for someone to show you with a demonstration with the Bose against other speakers. Once you realize the differences you would understand. Thw whole thing about buying equipment is to satisfy your personal taste, what sounds good to you. If a Bose or whatever else sounds good to you it doesn!t matter what anybody else thinks. You did not say that, you implied that people could not appreciate them because their ears are not trained when in truth it is just the opposite. |
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Bronze Member Username: VgtvidzPost Number: 54 Registered: Jul-04 | Well Diana, you might also want to read this article. (I'm pretty sure you've already read it) http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html Look at the part "THE COLD HARD NUMBERS (PART ONE)", we can see that the "bass module" (they dont even call it a subwoofer) cant go lower than 46Hz, I mean come on, some bookshelfs can do better than that! |
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New member Username: Diana_krallPost Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | And Bose have a frequency hole. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 599 Registered: Feb-04 | Peter, everything here has the potential to be anonymous. Even registered nicknames like Edster are still anonymous. True enough. I don't really approve of those either. Comes from a younger IRC crowd that are used to it, I guess. But I really dislike hiding behind famous names. Your name could be Bob for all I know. I'm rather easy to find on the Internet. If you click on my profile, it leads to a web page that would be nearly impossible to fake. Besides, how do you know my name is not really Diana Krall. Yeah, right, your name is Diana Krall and you are a musician. I love your concert DVD "Live from paris" by the way. It's almost my reference piece! |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 987 Registered: Jan-05 | Hey......c'mon Bose rules!! HEH... I have bose bringing up the "Back".... |
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The Real Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Its funny, the author of that article outright states that Bose makes lifestyle systems, and yet he is blind as to see what their appeal is. Furthermore, the article makes some pretty broad generalizations. Did he do chemical testing of the paper drivers to see if they were treated with anything, or did he just look at them and make the assumption? He states one can buy the "same" driver for 35 dollars a pair (which would still blow his estimate for 150 dollars tops for a complete system), yet the drivers are a Sony replacement, which may or may not be precisely the same as the Bose driver. The article criticizes the use of foam surrounds, but neglects that Bose does state that the foam is treated to prevent rot. The author does not test the speakers himself, he simply looks at the speakers and their innards, reads a random article about them in Sound and Vision (which was probably favorable given their history with Bose), and then proceeds to write an article full of errors. Not my idea of a "credible" source. |
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The Real Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Peter/Bob whatever your name may be, there is always identity theft. Its easy to post a link to some guys website. I can imagine the poor soul at home now without a clue that you're using his name for evil purposes (not really evil, but whatever). |
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Zorro Unregistered guest | Diana, Yes, this is Zorro again ! Hiding my true identity ! hohohohoho Your comments are absurd, pointless and sickening ! I am convinced that you must really suck as musician but you could be a pretty good Litigator, however, I can see how you could never win a case. Guys please, do not waste any time replying to Miss Diana, I mean what are we trying to do, convince her that she is wrong? That will never happen....but she is wrong though Adieu! |
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The Real Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Ohh Zorro, you again add nothing to this conversation other than your pathetic insults. Adieu! |
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Zorro Unregistered guest | Diana, I give in. You are right. Bose is a fine product given its "lifestyle" niche. I cant possibly see how I could have been so stupid. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 600 Registered: Feb-04 | Peter/Bob whatever your name may be, there is always identity theft. Its easy to post a link to some guys website. I can imagine the poor soul at home now without a clue that you're using his name for evil purposes (not really evil, but whatever). Then follow that link to that guy's web page and send an email to see if I reply. psg@debian.org |
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The Real Diana Krall Unregistered guest | Its alright Peter. I trust you. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 596 Registered: Mar-05 | Real DK, ooh la la, you're getting a little testy aren't you? Well can't say I can really blame you but hey that's not very good PR for Bose there now is it. On the other hand however if you're trying to show that you truly are not a Bose shill then that's exactly what you want to put out there, no? See Diane, the reason I have a hard time believing that you actually are a bona fide real Bose-Lover or Bose Admirer (and they ARE out there) is from the striking lack of enthusiasm in your one-note defense of Bose. Instead of heaping praise on Bose products all you have been doing is cooly defending them in an almost negative way, in fact. Instead of trying to sell us on why Bose is so great, you're just trying very hard to show why Bose is not that bad. As for why I personally dislike Bose products, it's because I've heard most of them and they are complete FRAUDS---especially considering their pricing and claims of being cutting edge and creme de la creme. I mean, Walmart does not pretend that its Durabrand and Sanyo cheapos are cutting edge and top of the line. If for example the Bose 3-2-1 system were sold for say $200 instead of $900, people like me wouldn't give Bose so much grief. However most of us have had some co-workers, neighbors, friends or family who've fallen for the Bose scam and ended up stuck with this pathetic overpriced junk...so yes there is a mix of righteous and altruistic indignation at play here. In particular, Bose speakers have virtually no midrange so voices come out very hollow, and no real highs or lows either---basically most music comes out castrated, sounding like you're using "Dolby B" Noise Reduction playback on a cassette that was NOT recorded with Dolby B. The Bose "bass module" is another joke, makes my cheap POS JBL e150 subwoofer sound like a $2000 boutique subwoofer...I've heard some $200 bookshelf speakers that put out better bass than that! I could go on and on but I'm sure you've heard it all before since you seem to like reading consumer reviews of Bose products on the Internet so that (by your own admission) you can repost them on audio forums like this. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 138 Registered: Feb-05 | Right on Edster! I read the review posted on the link above and felt the guy was right on the money. Seems to me that Miss?or Mrs. Krall is trying to incite a flame war. Let's end this thread and extinguish the flames. Bose is one of the greatest frauds in the consumer audio industry nearly as great as the cable lie. E.Ramsey |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 601 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks for the feedback Eric, but why end the thread? I think she's just doing her job, in one capacity or another. What we really ought to do is go to places like audioreview.com and Amazon.com and post one-star reviews to counterbalance all the shill five-star reviews that the Bose marketing department churns out. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 139 Registered: Feb-05 | Could be an idea,Ed but are those crap speakers really worth the effort? E.Ramsey |
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Elvis Costello Unregistered guest | Dammit Diana - How many times have I asked you not to go running your mouth off with strangers about that stupid Bose crap on internet forums. Either stay home and practice your singing and piano or I'm going to the pub! |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 603 Registered: Mar-05 | Eric, well I figure it's kind of like a public or humanitarian service...you can think of yourself as an Audio Missionary and Bose as the Audio Antichrist! : ) |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 140 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey Ed, remember the old Mcdonalds slogan "millions and millions served every day" or something like that. How about this for Bose"millions and millions deceived everyday".E.Ramsey |
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New member Username: Diana_krallPost Number: 3 Registered: May-05 | That Elvis post is so funny! |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 992 Registered: Jan-05 | C'mon you people... Everyone deserves to have the right to have Bose speakers as 'back' speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 605 Registered: Mar-05 | Eric, somehow the word "deceived" sounds too kind for what Bose does. I was thinking more like "screwed" or more colorful variations thereof. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 606 Registered: Mar-05 | LOL for once I agree with Paul, though I still wouldn't buy Bose for back speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 605 Registered: Feb-04 | Timbre-matching guys... Timbre \Tim"bre, n. 2. (Mus.) The quality or tone distinguishing voices or instruments; tone color; clang tint; as, the timbre of the voice; the timbre of a violin. See {Tone}, and {Partial ones}, under {Partial}. [1913 Webster] |