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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 401 Registered: Feb-05 | No "girlyman" subs allowed as Paul might say. Sorry guys but the Home Audio subwoofer section has, by all appearances, moved over here. Subfanatic and the Car Audio folks have taken over our sub forum. So I will likely be getting a new sub. Right now I am considering the Hsu VTF 3 mk 2 and the SVS PB 12 Ultra. Any thoughts, other recommendations. REL, Era, all suggestions will be researched. Edster and Paul I know y'all have some advice, I'm a waitin'. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 530 Registered: Feb-04 | Room size? SPL ratings of main speaker to match? |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 402 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi Peter, Paradigm Studio 40's are the mains. Room size 18x15, open at both ends. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 890 Registered: Jan-05 | From everything I've read, the VTF3 and PB12-ultra are apples to oranges. The VTF3 is a good sub, but the SVS will blow it to smitherines. The PB12-Plus would also be a good choice over the VTF3. The PB12-ISD would be more closely matched to the VTF3. You might find this interesting......Brian Mitchell(ecoustics CEO) had a sub 'showdown' and a cheaper SVS beat the VTF3 hands down. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/1041.html Both the SVS box subs are in a different league. If you do your research, you'll find multiple sources all saying the same thing, and none saying the reverse. Since I recently bought a sub, I've done my reading, and everything I could find points to the SVS as the superior sub. Good luck... |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 404 Registered: Feb-05 | I read that shootout but he was comparing an cylindrical SVS to the VTF3. Although the SVS won if you read that shootout carefully they actually tied, and for classical music the Hsu won. I own over 700 classical cd's. That's why the research. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 454 Registered: Mar-05 | Arthur, funny but I'm in almost the same boat as you (just lower budget, LOL) and just yesterday posted a similar much more detailed question about subs on 3 other audio forums (I figured the subwoofer forum at ecoustics is pretty useless these days): hometheaterforum.com avsforum.com forum.ascendacoustics.com The title is "Subwoofer questions out the wazoo" and at the avsforum one of the SVS guys answered it and gave me a link to a side by side comparison that somebody did on hometheaterforum.com of the Hsu vs. SVS Very interesting responses! |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 456 Registered: Mar-05 | correction: it was the hometheaterforum.com where Ron Stimpson of SVS chimed in. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 406 Registered: Feb-05 | So give me the long and short of it Edster. Does it look like the SVS wins or what. Sorry but I'm dyin' here, ofcourse that may just be the Jamesons Irish whiskey. Heh tommorrow I'm picking up Studio 20's for the rear and my Audioquest HDMI cable will arrive by weeks end. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 411 Registered: Feb-05 | Expectations lowered! SVS PB ISD/V vs Hsu VTF3 MK2. Apples to Apples and all that good rot. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 457 Registered: Mar-05 | well you have to take it with a grain of salt, the SVS guy is obviously going to be biased, and ditto with the Hsu guy. In the comparison the SVS narrowly edged out the Hsu. You really need to read it to judge for yourself. I'm leaning towards the SVS PB10, PB12 or the Outlaw LFM-1 at this point. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 486 Registered: Oct-04 | For musical fidelity the Velodyne SPL Series 2 deserves a mention http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=7&sid=223k795w |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 462 Registered: Mar-05 | how much does that Velodyne go for? 1000w rms sounds impressive. My local Paradigm dealer had a Velodyne sub with a remote that was pretty nifty, I hate having to get up and adjust the gain when switching sources. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 487 Registered: Oct-04 | The 8" was on sale for $1500 CDN last time I saw it. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 414 Registered: Feb-05 | Picked up the Studio 20 rears today and ordered a mean "mo fo" of a sub. One SVS PB12-ISD/V on the way. Now I can turn up the "G" thing. Out! |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 535 Registered: Feb-04 | $100 more than the Hsu STF-3 for more weight and lower extension. Seems like a good deal to me and I might have went to the SVS camp if they sold them in Canada. But honestly, I'm more than happy with the Hsu. It doesn't bottom out in my room (11'x30'x8') on any content or at any level so far. Keeps up with 104 dB efficiency speakers. It's goes flat to 25 Hz. It's musical. Fills my sub needs very nicely. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 416 Registered: Feb-05 | It was close Peter. I almost went with the Hsu, wifes not too pleased with the dimensions of the SVS. I figure either one I got I would come out on top, so what the heck. Dr Hsu was very nice to me and honestly Eric at SVS wasn't quite as friendly, but he was busy fielding calls. The deciding factor was the 3 ports and the lower extension. Dr Hsu told me that there will be what he called a turbo charge feature on VTF3 MK2 as early as this fall and for about $150 you can have your current sub retrofitted. The turbo feature will give the sub greater extension while not giving up musicality, sonds good to me. Like I said either sub sounds like a good deal. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 417 Registered: Feb-05 | It was close Peter. I almost went with the Hsu, wifes not too pleased with the dimensions of the SVS. I figure either one I got I would come out on top, so what the heck. Dr Hsu was very nice to me and honestly Eric at SVS wasn't quite as friendly, but he was busy fielding calls. The deciding factor was the 3 ports and the lower extension. Dr Hsu told me that there will be what he called a turbo charge feature on VTF3 MK2 as early as this fall and for about $150 you can have your current sub retrofitted. The turbo feature will give the sub greater extension while not giving up musicality, sounds good to me. Like I said either sub sounds like a good deal. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 898 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL...I talked to that eric guy too. Apparenty the calls are transferred to his cell phone, and I have no clue who he is. However, whenever I sent an email, one of the owners always responded quickly. I didnt really care to talk to whoever Eric was...... |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 899 Registered: Jan-05 | Did you say $1500 for a little 35lb 8-incher?? If money was no object, I could always buy 4-5 of those and place them on top of my sub as ornate nicknacks. What does that translate into USdollars?? |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 538 Registered: Feb-04 | Arthur, as I said before, I think you are getting a killer sub. You'll love it! |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 465 Registered: Mar-05 | Arthur, congrats on the SVS, I'm sure you'll be way happy! As I recall you currently have a Paradigm PW-2100 sub, right? What was it that made you decide to upgrade? I'm looking at the SVS PCi 25-31 tube right now, also the Outlaw LFM-1. The more I think about it, the more I am realizing that for my more music-oriented uses my priority in a sub is speed and accuracy between 30-100Hz rather than earthshaking low LOWS. Unfortunately I am very concerned at how this is going to work in such a huge listening space as mine (600 sq. feet. with 18 foot vaulted ceiling)...I may be asking too much given my budget. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 489 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=12300&I=2321000IIB |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 900 Registered: Jan-05 | Enjoy the sub arthur. You'll have to fill us in on the details when it arrives. I ordered mine on a monday, and had it by thursday. You should have it in time for the weekend. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 424 Registered: Feb-05 | I am getting the rest of my system right so I just want to make sure that I am getting the best lows for the money. I still have the PW2100 and will do a comparison. Other than the Servo 15 I have never been impressed with the musicality of the Paradigm subs. I looked at the Hsu, Outlaw, and SVS subs. My wife was pulling for the Outlaw and I didn't care. It came down to this: The Outlaw has received the best press, but when the reviewers discuss it's greatness they always refer to sub "guru" Dr Hsu who's products they don't even review (sounds political). The Hsu sub will be experiencing an upgrade later this year, but it's an upgrade to sound more similar to the SVS. In the end the SVS seemed like it offered more flexibility and used the highest quality parts such as the Indigo Bash amp. But remember, I ain't afraid to send it back if it sucks. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 428 Registered: Feb-05 | The sub shipped out today! I should have the new sub and AudioQuest HDMI cable in time for Memorial Day weekend movies and music. I bought 13 new movies and 25 new cd's. I am ready! |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 469 Registered: Mar-05 | Arthur, actually I think that the Hsu and Outlaw subs also use BASH amps. It's true that the SVS does seem to offer more weight, bigger enclosure, higher wattage, and deeper Hz on paper, though. Dammit it looks like my subwoofer budget will have to be adjusted upwards! |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 429 Registered: Feb-05 | They do use the BASH amp but they use outsourced amps built in China, SVS uses the original Indigo BASH amp built in Canada. That's not to say that the chinese built amps aren't good but I'll take the Indigo amp. Even Dr Hsu admitted that the SVS goes deeper and he also admitted that the SVS is a very good sub. What really convinced me is the effort he seems to be going through to add the same flexibility to his sub that the SVS already has with the 3 ports. The Outlaw doesn't have a L/R low pass input which bothers me since I don't use the LFE connection. Again I think that they are all good subs I just hope that it meets my expectations which are admittedly high. Someone once said "expectations are just premeditated resentments" let's hope not. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 476 Registered: Mar-05 | Oh, so you were in contact with Dr. Hsu? Me too. "Expectations are just premediated resentments"---LOL! Sounds like Oscar Wilde, or somebody who's been exposed to Zen. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 430 Registered: Feb-05 | Edster, how will your wife feel about a sub the size of the SVS. Mine has been giving me the business today even though I'm the one who decorated the place. I think she wants me to quit buying audio gear so that we can replace the original 1979 carpet and appliances. I will, just as soon as I get a tube hybrid pre/pro, high end power amps, esoteric turntable that hangs from the sealing attached iso stretch cables, a component rack made of exotic stone from outermost asia and few other pieces of audio e r o t i c a. Size Matters! |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 480 Registered: Mar-05 | Well my wife doesn't yet know that a new sub is coming, HEH!!! Be on the lookout for a piercing scream from the depths of Ababala when she finds out. Either hers, or hers and then mine in quick succession...lol |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 908 Registered: Jan-05 | Heh....funny stuff!! Personally, I'd recommend the plus2 to really rile up the Mrs., but im sure the ISD will outperform the HSU without much problem. Tonight, I watched American Idol with my daughter, and even with the weak satTV/LFE......whoah...we were thumpin!!! I just cranked the 'gain' up about 20% and we could feel every beat!!...sweet!! Then I watched "White Noise".......interesting flick. Of course for the DVD, I had to back it down not to break any valuables............HEH |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 444 Registered: Feb-05 | The sub shipped 5/17/05 and it is 5/20/05 and it is still sitting in Illinois. I could have loaded it on a Radio Flyer and pulled to at least Iowa in that amount of time. What in the world are these folks doin'. The longer it takes the more I doubt my purchase (buyer's remorse). Should I have gotten the Plus or the Hsu. Oh lord waiting is such a pain. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 471 Registered: Feb-05 | The SVS is in Portland, should get a call tommorrow and have it delivered Tuesday. It's going to be tough to beat this little PW2100. It's knockin' out some serious bass as I write. Listening to Dave Douglas - Freak In. This album is a torture test for subs. Sissy subs need not apply. Right now it's shakin the house. Rich and Cinda Clark are going to be causing seismic disturbances in their neighborhood with the Studio 100's and the PW2200. Yikes...I hope ya'll live in the country. |