My weekend was spent....
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 142 Registered: 12-2003 | Warning: this posting is VERY long As some of you may know from reading my thread entitled "Going to Jayhawk Land", I went on a road trip this weekend to Lawrence, KS to visit Kief's Audio/Video store. This store offers one of the most comprehensive selections of audio equipment I have ever seen, and I spent about 2 hours listening to many different receiver/speaker combinations. I wanted to give all of you some of my impressions of what I heard. First of all, let me discuss the store itself. All I can say is WOW! I made the trip with two friends of mine who are also audio enthusiasts. When we entered the store, we made it fairly clear to the salesman (his name was Wes) that we were there to listen...not to buy. Even knowing that he was not going to make a sale, Wes stayed with us for the full two hours and never once tried to get us to buy anything. He showed us EVERYTHING in the store that we wanted to see. Even without us asking, he took us to the "Jayhawk Theater", which, if I understand it correctly, is only shown to those "serious" buyers. I will discuss the Jayhawk Theater more later. Then, as we were leaving, at Hawk's suggestion, we talked to the manager Ed. After first trying to establish exactly who Hawk was (since I didn't know his real name...Hawk and Ed are acquaintances), Ed and I talked for another 30 minutes about everything from home electronics to basketball and marching bands. So all in all, I would have to say that this was the best experience I have had shopping for ANYTHING. The staff was unbelievable. I will now be buying all of my equipment from Kiefs. Ok, now for what I heard. Let me start this off by saying that this is just what MY ears heard. So please take these as my opinions. For all of these tests, I used the same source material. For video, I used the Pod Racer scene from "Star Wars Episode 1", and for music, I used a recording of Count Basie's "Whirlybird", the song "Private Investigations" by Dire Straits, and a CD recorded by a band in which my friend (who was with me) plays the drums for. This brings me to the only "negative" (if you can call it that) aspect of my day at Kief's. Like I said, they had a huge selection of equipment, but in the various listening rooms, each receiver brand was mated with one speaker brand, and no "crossing" was possible. For example, I really wanted to test the Monitor Audio/Pioneer Elite combo...but in the showroom, these two brands were not paired together, so I couldn't listen to the combo without rewiring the whole thing. So, here are the combos I listened to and my impressions of each. I first discuss the "mid-fi" brands, then the "good stuff" as I call it. 1. NAD T753 and KEF 5Q-As I have an NAD T762, I was very interested in this combo. The sound was very detailed on the movie as I had expected. For the movies, this was the best combo in the "mid-fi" price range that I heard. However, I was surprised with how the music sounded. To my ears, the sound was a little on the bright side, and some of the detail was lost. The sound of the music was kind of "dampened" in some parts. As we were listening to this combo, I made it a point to ask the salesman about the quality issues I had been hearing so much about with NAD receivers. He stated that they had had NO problems with this new line of receivers. He said that about two years ago, they had a few problems with some NAD receivers, but even then, the return rate was like 3 of every 50 that they sold. These comments were reflected in my conversation with Ed the manager. With all of the NAD receivers that this dealer sells, I think they are more than qualified to make statements about quality control issues. Kief's has dropped brands many times in the past for low sales, so it would make sense to me that if there were any quality issues with NAD, Kief's probably would have stopped selling them a long time ago. So the moral of this story is...while some NAD receivers may have problems, as a whole, quality control is not an issue. 2. Sony ES 2000 and PSB Image Series-This combination surprised me also. From what I had heard myself from other lower end Sony receivers, I didn't expect much from this receiver. I was kind of surprised. In the movies, I was not impressed at all. The sound of the Sony was kind of mushy and not nearly as detailed or precise as the NAD/KEF combo. However, this combo really shined with the music. All in all, I was more pleased with the music sound of this combo than I was with the NAD/KEF combo. It didn't sound as bright as the NAD/KEF combo and didn't have the "dampness" either. I must say that the Sony ES line is MUCH better than their lower end stuff. The differences are like night and day. 3. Integra/Klipsch (unsure of the models)-This was by far the worst combination in this particular listening room (which consisted of the three combos I have listed so far). The sound was fairly detailed (although not as much as the NAD), but the sound was terribly bright in both movies and music. In fact, this combo literally hurt my ears and started to give me a headache after only a few minutes of listening. This brightness made the music seem almost lifeless. 4. Denon 3803 and Monitor Audio Silver 6-This combination surprised me also...not for the way it sounded but that the sales staff would put these two brands together. Both Monitor and Denon are known for being fairly bright, so I really can't understand why they would put this combo together. The sound was just as I thought it would be...extremely bright. As with the Integra/Klipsch combo, the sound was detailed but very bright. My headache came back as I listened to this combo. Another side note...my source materials were being played on this combo using a $1000 Denon DVD player (unsure of model). As the music songs were beginning, the first millisecond of the song was cut off while the receiver was trying to recognize what signal (digital or analog) it was being sent. This "skip" was reported with NAD receivers as well, but for some reason, those NAD customers thought it was some sort of quality problem. So, the moral of THIS story is...this skip is common to many different receivers (or at least NAD and Denon). 5. Pioneer Elite 55 and NHT-This was the final "mid-fi" combination that we listened to. Of all of the combinations, this one had the "warmest" sound. The thing that stuck out most in my mind was that especially in the movie, the dialog was incredibly clear and pronounced. However, when we listened to the music, there was a definite lack of bass...and they were using a $3000 Velodyne sub. I am unsure whether this could have been fixed by changing some kind of setting on the receiver. And now for the "good stuff"... As I stated earlier, the salesman took us into the "Jayhawk Theater" (which can be seen on the Kief's website). This thing is simply unbelievable. It is a true "home theater" with B&K 200w x 7 separates, 7.1 sound from Klipsch Reference speakers, 2 Velodyne subs, an insanely expensive Denon Universal DVD player, a $6000 projector, HDTV receiver, and Crestron lighting. The décor was completed by two push-button power recliners, a power-retracting projection screen, a power retracting movie curtain over the screen, and more Jayhawk red and blue than I would ever like to see again. Total cost of the entire room...somewhere around $100,000. Unfortunately, there was a home show going on in Lawrence that same day, so integral parts of the system were not present, which meant that we couldn't actually hear what it sounded like, but it looked great! The best setup I heard for movies was McIntosh separates paired with PSB Platinum series speakers. The sound of that pod racer scene was simply AWESOME!! The sound was incredibly detailed and very precise. There was no "background clutter" noise present at all and the sound was very open. As you can probably tell from my struggling description, there are literally no words to describe how this sounded. And tell me, is there any other equipment out there that looks as cool as McIntosh? Finally, the best stereo setup that I heard was Adcom separates paired with PSB Stratus Gold speakers. All I can say is AWESOME...I felt like I was sitting in front of the Count Basie orchestra. And now for my conclusions... On my long drive back to Mid-Missouri from Lawrence, I had a lot of time to think about what I had just heard. I came up with two revelations. Once again, these are just my opinions and my opinions only (and do not represent the views of this station). 1. Speakers can make a bigger difference in sound quality than a receiver. The reason I say this is that from what I heard, speakers turned receivers that I previously knew to be pretty poor into fine sounding units, and vice versa. Take the Sony ES. Everything I had heard about Sony told me that this receiver should not be on a level playing field with the others...but paired with those PSB Image speakers...the Sony was instantly transformed into a very competent unit. On the other side, to my ears (since I have one) NAD receivers are incredibly detailed, especially in music. However, when they were paired with the KEF speakers, the receiver seemed to lose some of that music detail that I am so used to. I just didn't hear the same type of things with this combo that I hear every day with my NAD/PSB combo. So if anyone is starting from scratch in Home Theater, I would suggest getting speakers that you like first, and then get a receiver to match. 2. The differences in the "mid-fi" equipment and the "ultra high end" equipment are really not all that great. Don't get me wrong, the sound of that McIntosh stuff was simply to die for, but in all actuality, the sound was not really significantly better. Maybe my ears are dead or something, but the total price of the McIntosh preamp, amp, and DVD player was over $12,000. When you compare that to a NAD setup that would probably cost no more than $2000 (773 plus a DVD player), it would be very hard for me to justify spending 600% more on the ultra high end stuff. To me, the sound is obviously better, but not THAT much better. By the way Hawk, Ed sends his regards, and I think I finally realized why you call yourself "Hawk". It should have dawned on me sooner. :-) Seriously, I think that was the longest post EVER! |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 260 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, Sounds like you had an interesting trip and heard some nice stuff. I agree with your point about speakers being the most important part of a system. PSB would be about the best speaker brand I can think of to pair with the brightness of the Sonyes. I am amazed that a store supposedly as good as this would put Denon and Monitor Audio together. What a terrible mistake and a waste of the potential of the MA's. My local store does just as bad or worse by pairing Sonyes and Klipsch and it's just horribly shrill. Regarding your reation to the Elite/NHT combo and it's lack of bass I would say it's probably a reflection of the speakers as my Elite/MA system has incredibly tight, deep bass through both my mains and my Def Tech PF12 sub. I envy your ability to compare such a wide variety of good brands and just the mention of McIntosh gives me a chill. Thanks for the report. |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 11 Registered: 02-2004 | Johnny, I really enjoyed reading your post. I recently bought KEF speakers and stands from Kiefs and can easily recommend Kiefs for their service and fair prices. Your assessment of the NAD/KEF combo confirms my own experience. They are great for HT (much better than I expected), but surprisingly not as good for pure audio. Considering the audio lineage of the two brands, you would think it would be reversed (maybe other KEF speakers perform better with music). Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, great post. It is nice to hear some objective information (for a change) about systems and set ups. It is too bad that Kiefs could not change the set ups because it would be really interesting to compare the receivers mated to different speakers. I would like to know how much difference there is in the mid-fi receivers. I wonder if alot of it is the speakers we try out rather than the receivers. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 286 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, That is really interesting. Great to read your report. You obviously learned a lot from that visit, and give readers here plenty to think about. Wish I knew of a dealer like that. The answer to the closing riddle is... Must be to do with the bird. Pardon my ignorance, are jayhawks the same things that are called "cardinals" elsewhere in the mid-West? As a KEF/NAD owner I shall think, now, before suggesting the Q-series with NAD. I too have suspected that the more expensive Sony electronics is very good, but have not had chance to experience this myself. To me, it is where price is an important factor that Sony seem to be giving priority to issues other than sound quality. Those five "mid-fi" combinations. Do you remember how they compare in price? Do you list then in any particular order? |
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New member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 8 Registered: 02-2004 | By the way how much does Sony ES 2000 cost in US compared to NAD or H/K basic models? Isn't the ES 2000 a digital amp? |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 143 Registered: 12-2003 | John A., Great to hear from you again. To try to answer some of your questions... I actually didn't notice much on the prices of the combinations. I guess since I wasn't buying anything, I didn't pay much attention. Also, Kiefs has a very creative pricing structure. I think it is based on some marketing research from the University of Kansas (which is in Lawrence). I will post a link to the website below as I think it can explain it better than I. Basically, there are 4 different prices that a person could pay for any particular item based on what their needs are. Consequently, it is very difficult to gauge prices at this store without asking as the prices that are listed in the showroom are retail prices...and as we all know, most people do not pay retail price any more. Here is the link. Click on the picture at the top right hand corner of the page and you can see the "Jayhawk Theater" that I described in my posting. http://www.kiefs.com/fourprices.html I listed the combinations in the order that I listened to them...nothing else. As for the "riddle", as you have probably suspected, I think (I may still be wrong though), that "Hawk" comes from "Jayhawk". In my conversation with Ed the manager, he indicated that "Hawk" attended the University of Kansas. As for the history of the Jayhawk, it is not the same as a cardinal. To quote from the KU website "The University of Kansas is home of the Jayhawk, a mythical bird with a fascinating history. Its origin is rooted in the historic struggles of Kansas settlers. The term "Jayhawk" was probably coined about 1848. Accounts of its use appeared from Illinois to Texas. The name combines two birds--the blue jay, a noisy, quarrelsome thing known to rob other nests, and the sparrow hawk, a stealthy hunter. The message here: Don't turn your back on this bird." During the period just before and during the US Civil War, there were a lot of disputes between the pro-slavery Missourians and the anti-slavery Kansans. Lots of guerilla warfare ensued in which both sides would send men across the border to terrorize the oposition (mostly civilians). Maybe you have heard of William Quantrill's famous raid on Lawrence in 1863? Anyway, those anti-slavery Kansans that would cross the border into Missouri and cause trouble were called "Jayhawkers". In fact, the mascot of the University of Missouri, the "Tigers", comes from the Civil War period also. As rumors of a guerilla raid spread around Columbia, a group of Columbians joined together to guard the town. Their effors were successful as the guerillas passed by the town. This group of defenders became known as the "Missouri Tigers". Sorry for the history lesson. I hope all is well John. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 144 Registered: 12-2003 | elitefan, Didn't you say you were going on a "listening trip" this weekend too? How did it go? |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 262 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, I am going on a trip on the 12th.[I hope]. Will report what I find. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 4 Registered: 12-2003 | As for Quantrill's Raiders, see this link: xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Kansas/quantril.html and www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/i_r/quantrill.htm |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | Sorry, one more link to Jayhawkers and Quantrill: www.umkc.edu/imc/bushwhac.htm Of interest, the James brothers rode with Quantrill. |
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Bronze Member Username: Disco_stanPost Number: 74 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, What places would you recommend to go to for a listening trip. After I'm out of High School (Will be very soon!!) I'm planning on doing a listening trip/mental vacation trip. So if you know of any good stores, run them by. I just hope the parental units wont get in the way of this. |
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Bronze Member Username: Disco_stanPost Number: 75 Registered: 12-2003 | Oh, and BTW I live in Minnesota and distance isn't that big of a deal, hopefuly the Saab can handle it though. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 258 Registered: 12-2003 | I certainly agree that speakers and the room they are in have the most effect on the sound (assuming you have adequate amplification that doesn't clip). Regarding the bass problem with the Pioneer Elite 55Tx, the NHT's and the Velodyne subwoofer, I would bet the problem was caused by the subwoofers placement or a poor crossover selection. Afterall, the receiver doesn't drive the subwoofer, it just passes the information to the self-powered subwoofer. So I would presume that this particular system in that particular room would benefit from having two subwoofers, (such as 2 Outlaw Audio LFM-1's for $999/pr, or HSU's) hooked up to the system. That normally would solve subwoofer placement issues that can dramatically effect performance. I would have loved to hear the new Platinum Series PSB speakers. I also own a pair of the PSB Stratus Gold i's that I usually use for my stereo listening. Sounds like Kief's has great customer service and intelligently use their pricing schedule for people that might use their service department. The cheapest pricing, or next to cheapest, is probably best used by people that live very far away. I would certainly pay a bit more for the kind of they seem to provide if I lived relatively nearby. Now if they only attached some good switching equipment, they sound like they might be the ideal audio salon. Anyway, they sound like they are great people and I wish there was something remotely close to that where I live. We have an interesting local audio salon dealership that sells mostly Paradigm's, NAD, Arcam, Martin Logan's and specialty therapeutic listening chairs and those NASA-foam beds. Wild combination of products :-) |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 145 Registered: 12-2003 | Jonathan, You must be a fellow Civil War buff? Matt, I am sure there are those on here who can name off several dealers in every major metropolitan area of the US, but as I just started with all of this in earnest about 6 months ago, I don't know of too many places. But, being as we both live in the mid-west, I have two stores that I know of to be very good. 1. Saturday Audio Exchange-This store is located in Chicago. It gets its name because it is really only open on the weekends (and Thursday nights). Their thought is that they can keep overhead costs down by only opening on the weekends. I bought my NAD T762 and PSB speakers from there and had a very good experience...although I have never actually been there in person. You can check out their website at www.saturdayaudio.com. 2. Kiefs-this is the store that I mentioned in my above posting, and is located in Lawrence, KS. It is obviously a longer drive for you, but well worth it if you are ever in the area. As I said in my posting, my experience at Kiefs was the greatest shopping experience I have EVER had. I would definately have bought my equipment from them if I had known of their existence at the time. Their website is www.kiefs.com. Other than that, the best thing I can suggest is to look at the websites of some of the different brands you are interested in. Most if not all of them have a place to get a listing of authorized dealers. Usually, you just provide a zip code or telephone area code and they give you a list. Play around with it...maybe you can come up with a few dealers close to you that sell a few of the brands you are looking at. Maybe you can get your parents to give you a little "graduation money" to help finance any purchases you may make while on this listening trip. Hope this helps! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 288 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, I have just written a post and then lost it, through going to check the link to the obituary I have just read, in The Times, of US historian Daniel J Boorstin. What a great guy. I had got as far as saying US core values are still there, under the gloss, and it reminded me. Everytime I say anything positive about the US today, the conversation gets political, and of course there are reasons for that. But I like the geography, the history, the people (mostly), as well as admiring the core values. Your story of a visit to an expert and well-equipped audio dealer, with time for customers, even just potential ones, exemplifies a freedom many people still don't have in "old Europe", even the Western part. If they would just admit their politics is partly based on envy, we might begin to get somewhere! My interest in your post of history is great and I thank you. I got out my battered old Rand McNally Road Atlas to check where Lawrence is (just West of Kansas City). I once drove from Delaware to California, with my young family, in just two weeks. Every day was and education and still etched in my wife's memory and mine. What I wouldn't give to do it again. And take more time. I will follow the links with interest and maybe mail you. I just wanted to say "Thanks"! I never even knew Kansas and Missouri were once on different sides. Great to be put right on the Jayhawk. What a dumb-European question! |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 148 Registered: 12-2003 | John A, Thanks for your kind words. It is always a pleasure to share knowledge with willing people. Unfortunately, being a teacher, sometimes the participants are not always willing. I just sent you an email about all of this. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 | Johnny, not a civil war buff but have some interest in it. Did some reading years ago after seeing a great movie: "The Long Riders" about the James and Younger gangs and the ill-fated raid on the bank in Northfield, Minnesota. These issues are so interesting because there are folks who think Quantrill/Jayhawkers were heroes and those who think they were the devil. Too many horrible acts on both sides. It goes back to a time when people acted when they were stirred to by the great debate about slavery. It reminds me how passive we now are when we accept without flinching incidents such as the Florida election results. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 149 Registered: Dec-03 | Jonathan, I would agree that we are becomming very passive. How much protesting do you think would have gone on had this current War in Iraq happend 30-40 years ago. Now we kind of just accept such things and move on with our daily routine as the bodies keep piling up. If you like movies about the Civil War time period, check out the movie "Ride With The Devil" from 1999. It stars Tobey Maguire and Jewel. The movie isn't very well known, and it is a little slow in some parts, but it does depict the guerilla warfare in Missouri during the Civil War. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 267 Registered: Dec-03 | I wouldn't say we were passive about Florida. It went to the Supreme Court--and since it has roughly 5 republicans to 4 democrats it went to Bush. I voted for Gore and blame the democrats for designing that stupid chad ticket. Gore lost thousands of votes because a lot of older and simpler people in Dade county mistook the Pat Buchanon punch spot for the Gore puch spot. Even Pat admitted--I have nowhere near that kind of support in Dade. And careless democrat voting operatives designed that stupid chad card. I certainly wouldn't compare Florida with the Vietnam War. That war was horribly damaging, both in lives lost and lives damaged and tens if not hundreds of billions spent. And that was when a billion dollars was worth a heck of a lot more. I think we lost around 55,000 lives, around 5 times that in severe injuries, and lord knows how many that were psychologically damaged. One of the number of sad and miscalculationg things in the Iraq war was that the CIA and other operatives were recommending to the Bush administration on 3 or 4 occassions before the war began to bomb out the terrorist training camp that Zarqawi was operating out of and who seems to be a major factor in the terrible bombings now. But the administration was prepared to attack Iraq (with or without UN cooperation) during early 2002 and they didn't bomb the terrorist facility for fear that the UN would not come along with them later. As it turned out, the UN didn't come along with them anyway. So regardless whether someone is for or against the conflict, the administration has made numerous mistakes, from not taking out Zarqawi when they had the chance, to being totally unprepared for the Iraq war aftermath. So much for my inappropriate comments on an audio forum. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-03 | Gregory, I still think we were passive. Without blaming George Bush, (I did not vote for either Bush or Gore), we had a US Supreme Court step in where there were allegations of unfairness in the way that a state (whose govenor happened to be the brother of the republican candidate) disallowed ballots for a variety of dubious reasons and may have prevented minorities from even voting. In addition, one of the Supreme Court justices refused to recuse himself where his family members were working for the lawfirms on the Bush side. Furthermore, the Supreme court supposedly loaded with states rights fanatics stepped in and usurped the authority of the state to handle its own election results. It seems to me, this was essentially a coup on some level. I think it was quite unsettling and quite interesting that the country really didn't miss a beat after the election was declared. And, surprise!, the elected government continues to serve special interest in light of incredible conflicts of interest. As for Iraq, well the country was threatened. When your safety is threatened, as is said, the first casualty of war is truth. Our country has invoked martial law (in civil war times), locked up citizens of Japanese origin and killed protesting college students. That again is not to say that there weren't valid reasons to attack Iraq. But what does this have to do with speakers? Nothing. Sorry for my rant. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 150 Registered: Dec-03 | Gman, I would agree with what you have said as well. I was not comparing the Vietnam War to the election debacle in Florida. My main point was about the Iraqi war. Like you said...not really comparing the same thing, but it does seem like people don't get as fired up about things as they used to. There were some VERY large protests in Europe when the US went into Iraq...and those countries (other than Britain) weren't even sending troops! I don't remember hearing of but maybe one or two much smaller protests here (I may be wrong though). I guess that is because we here in the US were privied to all of that specialized "intelligence" that said Sadaam had huge stockpiles of WMD. Like lemmings to a cliff... ...maybe they should start a "world issues" section of this discussion board? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 289 Registered: Dec-03 | Let me try briefly to link some of the inspirational aspects of the US with audio, via an Edwardian composer, about as Brit as you can get. Walt Whitman wrote poetry on the theme of the importance of understanding, first, our common humanity. He was a "War poet" - of the US Civil War. No-one knew the UK would have to produce its own war poets after 1918. But many were inspired by Whitman's vision, anyway. Cue: Symphony no. 1 by Ralph Vaughan Williams: "A Sea Symphony", first performed 1910, setting for massive choir and orchestra (and two soloists) of Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" and "Passage to India". One of the first LP records I ever bought (just because it was cheap, and I liked the cover) was a Decca "Eclipse" recording, from their mono catalogue but "electronically re-processed to give stereo effect on stereo equipment". I still have it, also several versions on CD, including a CD re-mastering of the full-price EMI stereo LP, which the Decca "budget" LP was issued to undercut. Finally, almost exactly 30 years later, I come full circle, and Naxos delivers the promised DVD-Audio (it was sheduled for release last September). Naxos 5.110016. Bournemouth Symphony Chorus and Orchestra. 44.1 kHz, 24 bit. 2004. The disc is inexpensive, and amazing. For the first time, I hear every word, every voice, and every instrument. Even if this sort of stuff is not your usual listening, try it for the sound, and for the words of "A Song for all Seas, all Ships" (first movement: one for flag-wavers). The dynamic range of the recording exceeds anything I have heard. On a system like mine, choose DTS 5.1 (I don't have DVD-A yet) and start at, say, +10 dB. The opening brass fanfare is like a blinding light, the choral and orchestral entry like a huge wave crashing over you. Leave the volume up with full dynanic range, and see if you can hear the final notes, from the low strings, at all. On my system the close fades imperceptibly into silence. Or, at least, into the ambience of the hall, and one slight creak from a chair. I could write reams on this, but won't. Let me just say Whitman was writing just as European romantic nationalism was building up to kill millions, for no reason, except the desire to inflict cultures, values, languages and religeons on people who didn't want them. Whitman had already learned that lesson, and at home. Shame hardly anyone was listening. Wish I could think people had learned the lesson today. There you go: seriously off topic, but from the heart. Minority stuff, but a direct link with the Jayhawk, and a reason for liking America. Wonder if Bush and Kerry have heard of Whitman. Hope so! No flames, please. That's part of how "my weekend was spent". Also, on Sept 19, I promised to report back on The Sea Symphony on the thread What does"DVD-audio" mean here?, but the thread is now closed to posts. I think Johnny, at least, won't mind! Thanks for the Civil War movie tips, guys. I will follow them. Anyone seen "Cold Mountain"? As regards abolition of slavery, I thought one of Spielberg's most under-appreciated movies was "Amistad". Powerful stuff. Whether it is historically accurate, I don't know. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 290 Registered: Dec-03 | That was nicely formatted in the "post" and "preview" windows. It is now one very dense paragraph. Apologies, but beyond my control. |
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Anonymous | Thing is, the democrats still haven't gotten over Clinton being gone. Then, Bush is the one to replace him. Then, the GOP takes the senate--twice. Then, Jeb is re-elected. Then, the GOP takes the governorship of California. Democrats are angry nowadays because they are losers. I can hardly wait for Bush to win in Nov. It's going to kill the liberals. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 293 Registered: Dec-03 | Admin tells me (thanks!) What does"DVD-audio" mean here? is open for posts again. I am having html problems, clearly... Anonymous. "Democrats are angry nowadays because they are losers". Go read Whitman. Please. How did he vote? Was he a "liberal"? Does it matter? Who will be the real losers, in our children's generation? You should be proud of Whitman - he was one of the most influential spokesmen for your country, ever. And long before it became a World power. Please learn from sad old Europe, a bunch of bickering, interest groups, strutting around as if it their petty jealousies and domestic feuds still mattered. And as if they had never needed America (or the former Soviet Union). No-one wants to go through all that again, surely. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 8 Registered: Dec-03 | Anon: You should re-read my post. I am not a democrat nor am I a republican. My concern is over the process and the ideals of America. I presume that anyone who is proud of America would be concerned if an election was tainted. I wonder and hope whether that is true or whether Americans are so complacent that they will not be able to object to anything that happens. That is not a liberal issue, it is an American issue. Also, if you had a significant issue in court and you knew that the judge who was going to decide your case had sons working for the lawfirms representing your adversary, wouldn't you feel that it was not fair? Where have ethics gone? Listen to the sage words of John A. It is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. It is not a sports analogy (scoreboard!!) issue. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 263 Registered: Dec-03 | This thread has gotten way off track. This is not a political site and let's get back to what it really is; a site for audio/video interest. I for one am not the least bit interested in others crackpot ideas, like anon above. Enough of this crap! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 294 Registered: Dec-03 | Jonathan, Thanks. I had not read your most recent post (08.31) when I wrote at 08.20 It is great to be understood! Anon might feel pride, and some responsibility, that his country carries the torch. For the time being.... I wonder who's next? Just try and leave the place in better shape than when you found it, guys. That's all all empires can ever do, before they crumble, from within.... Personally, I think we could do a lot worse, today, than have the good ol' US in charge, whomever you elect. Think of the alternatives... Good luck! PS "What does this have to do with speakers?". Lots! |
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New member Username: DboySouth africa Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-04 | if got a earthquake sub 600w i want to know if i can hook up a 1000w 4channel amp and just use 2 bridged channels to power it. |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 32 Registered: Feb-04 | Hey Denver, whats that got to do with American history and the state of the nation? |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 152 Registered: Dec-03 | I realize that some of this may be off topic, but is it really hurting anything? Just because it is posted doesn't mean that you have to read it. I have seen many forums much worse off than this in regards to staying on topic. A little off-topic banter between friends on the state of affairs in the world does not bother me any. It shows what kind of camaraderie is present on this forum. And since there are people here from all over the world, it makes the discussion even more enlightening. Sorry if I have offended or bothered anyone, it was not my intention. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 297 Registered: Dec-03 | Apologies for the digression. It's all about calibrating your expectations, I suppose.... No more from me, unless asked. Great sound from that DVD-A, though: recommended purely on audio grounds. |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 33 Registered: Feb-04 | Johnny, I was just kidding with Denver as his post seemed to have come out of the blue. Yours and the other posts are interesting and show that some people still give a da..! Sorry if you thought I was complaining. What the world needs now is music - real music! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 298 Registered: Dec-03 | Johnny, Breaking my own promise, in minutes: it is an fascinating thread. Of course the US is in people's thoughts right now. It's an education to read all your posts. Thanks! |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 9 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz: I thought your post was too funny and it made my day. So how about those NHTs? |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 153 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz, No problem. An honest mistake on my part. As you probably know, it is difficult sometimes to pick up sarcasm (or lack thereof) when only viewing words. I guess it comes with the territory. |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 34 Registered: Feb-04 | Jonathan - glad you got a laugh because that post just gave me a chuckle! Johnny - happens so much especially in emails. I should have added a smiley to the post! Getting back to your original post - I wish we had stores like Kiefs on the Gold Coast (Aus). I had to build our system by buying this and that from 4 different stores going on what I had learnt from reviews and from people in this forum. At least we think we got it right! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 301 Registered: Dec-03 | Let me suggest something lighter to check your system and core values. "The Music Man" by Meredith Willson. 2002 5.1 DVD. A feelgood musical. Real wit, real charm, real music. Makes me want to live in Iowa! |
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New member Username: Kiefs_audio_incLawrence, Kansas U.S.A. Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-04 | Hello group. Scott here, webmaster for Kief's Audio/Video. I saw the traffic the links on this list were generating from our referrer logs, and I just stopped in to add a bit to the discussion pertaining to our store. First, I'd like to aplogize to Johnny that the Jayhawk room was out of comission for the home show. As I understand it, it has been put back together and is good to go again. Second, in reference to the crossing of equipment, we admittedly do have a large store with a lot of product out for demonstration on the floor. It's not that pieces can't be crossed, it's that crossing and setting systems up takes time. We attempt to set up our audio rooms with the proper specifications for the display area, which can make moving pieces a bit tricky when it comes to reconfiguring a receiver and source equipment. We will set up for custom listening, but it does help if we have some advance notice. I'm glad you enjoyed your visit, and I encourage anyone with the time and avaiability to stop by. Additionally, I encourage you all to puruse our website kiefs.com. I welcome your comments and suggestions at kiefs@kiefs.com. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 166 Registered: Dec-03 | Kiefs, No apology is necessary. Things like that happen. I am thinking of making another trip to your store in the upcoming months. Hopefully, I can see the theater then. By the way, who are you picking in today's MU/KU basketball game? Tipoff is in only 45 minutes. GO TIGERS!! If you will, give Wes and Ed my regards. Tell them thanks again for a truly memorable day. |
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