NAD T773 DTS NEO 6 Music and EARS

Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 06:12 GMT Hi all, Last week I have purchased and got the NAD T773 with Snell speakers. The sound is great and amazing. I am trying to set it up with DTS NEO 6 music and even with EARS mod, but the surround sound is very low (although I have set up the surround speakers level to max). Are these mode of NEO6 AND EARS is for 2 Channels ? and if not, how can I set up the receiver to have the surround speakers higher ? BTW, The matrix 7.1 work fine with the surround. Thanks, Daniel
dong Unregistered guest	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 14:04 GMT Daniel, If you want to have louder surround try setting to ENHANCHED STEREO 1 or 2.
Lars J. Aas New member Username: Larsa Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 18:03 GMT All those modes are for two-cannel audio, the way I understand it. I really like Matrix 7.1 myself, even though I only have a 5.1 speaker setup and have to enable speakers I don't have in the setup menu to get access to those modes. Enhanced stereo 2 is for "low volume listening conditions" BTW (nighttime in the apartment complex?), so you're probably not going to get any great sound experiences out of that one. It's just all sound to the back-speakers so you can keep the volume down so your sleeping neighbors wont get bothered.
Johnny New member Username: Johnny Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 18:14 GMT Lars, You have been misinformed. EARS and DTS Neo 6 are both surround formats. They are basically the same as Dolby Pro Logic II...they take a stereo (2 channel) source and turn it into a full surround sound. Each of the three has subtle differences in the way they sound, but they are basically the same thing. Daniel, There can be many reasons you are not getting much sound from the surround speakers in these 2 modes. 1. Your speaker levels are off. Try using an SPL meter to balance each channel. 2. Your speaker distance levels are off. 3. They are connected improperly. Also, if I remember correctly, you shouldn't expect as much sound coming from the surrounds as from the fronts. Basicaly, it is similar to using Dolby Digital. The surrounds are used mainly for effect...the bulk of the sound comes from the front and center channels. So just because you aren't getting much sound doesn't mean anything is wrong. Try playing with the settings I listed above, and see if it improves any.
Lars J. Aas New member Username: Larsa Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 18:40 GMT Thanks Johhny, you're right. Forgive my ignorance. I remember it now that you say it. I didn't really study the description of the NEO6:-modes since I just have a 5.1 setup and don't ordinarily have access to them. As for EARS, I don't think I get it when playing surround DVDs - just DD or DTS versus downmix. I therefore assumed it was a stereo mode - it's only available to me when listening to stereo sound. Maybe it's different for 7.1 speaker setups since you have a surround sound source that doesn't utilize all your speakers? "upmixing" from 5.1 sound to 5.1 doesn't really make much sense, so it might be disabled because of that...
Lars J. Aas New member Username: Larsa Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 18:49 GMT Just read your post again, and I now suspect we're doing a "Who's on first?"-routine :-) Are you saying that NEO6 is a surround->stereo encoding technique (that you can get audio encoded for NEO6-decoding out there?), like good old dolby surround / prologic?
Johnny New member Username: Johnny Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 19:04 GMT Lars, I can understand your mistake...with all of those abbreviations out there, it is very difficult to make sense of all of them. I think you are right. EARS is probably only available when listening to stereo sound. Some of the others (DPLII and DTS NEO 6) might be that way too, although I have never really tried. When something is played in DD or DTS, I always use that...there really is no reason to use EARS or PLII when watching a DD or DTS DVD and thus I have never tried. As for your question about NEO 6, I am unsure of what exactly you are asking. As far as I know, there is nothing encoded in NEO 6 format...at least I have never seen anything. Basically, as I said earlier, this is what I know. NEO 6 is used when you want to transform a stereo source (i.e. CD, VHS tape, or TV) into surround sound (like Pro Logic II). It was created by DTS (the main compeditor of Dolby) as a rival to Pro Logic II and is essentially the same thing. I can hear minor differences between the two, but they are very minute. To me, the NEO 6 sounds a little brighter than Pro Logic II for whatever reason. I prefer the sound of PLII, so I usually use it instead of NEO 6. If you are still confused (which you probably are...I know I am), you might try www.dts.com. Although, there is not nearly as much info there as there is on Dolby's website...it is awesome!!
Lars J. Aas New member Username: Larsa Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 20:19 GMT The way I had it figured was is that * a) dolby surround / prologic was a stereo-track that has been constructed from multichannel surround sound and modulated in a way so that it both sounds good in stereo and a suitable decoder could reconstruct as much as possible of the multichannel sound again ("as much as possible" being "quite little" the way I understand it), while * b) EARS and others (and I included NEO6 and Matrix 7.1 here) were just ambience enhancing techniques that were designed to spreads out a stereo sound source (any stereo sound source) on a multi-speaker system in a more or less "arbitrary" way that gives it a fuller, nicer sound. My assumption was that the NEO6 and Matrix 7.1 modes were only designed for producing 6.1/7.1 sound, and therefore weren't available with a 5.1 speaker setup. Anyways, these were just my beliefs - I haven't studies the matter, something I understand I'll have to do now ;) I'll check out www.dts.com when I have an idle moment... In Norway we have an expression that goes "misunderstand me correctly".
Johnny New member Username: Johnny Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 20:58 GMT Now you have me intrigued also. I will have to do some research tomorrow also...but for now...it is quitin' time...I am going home.
John Barefoot New member Username: Noshuz1 Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 21:25 GMT Thanks for the discussion, I just purchased a NAD T773 unit and by reading your posts I have learned a lot about setting up the music vs. movie conditions and I haven't even gotten my unit yet. I appreciate the new knowledge! P.S. The Norwegian saying "misunderstand me correctly" is great! I plan to use it a lot in Good Ole' Viginia, USA!
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 255 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 19:10 GMT At the risk of making this worse. Stereo sources - Can be played as stereo. - They can also be messed up with some added phasing technique to give a surround-sound effect from two speakers (one version is called "Dolby Surround Sound"). If you like stereo, as I do, it is horrible. - They can be made digital (if not already), and the two-channel digital signal is then given to a Digital Signal Processor (DSP). The DSP extracts phase differences from the sounds, giving completely in-phase sounds (the two microphones got the sound at exactly the same time) to a "centre" channel; slightly out-of phase sounds to either Left or Right, depending on which microphone "heard" the sound first; and even more out-of-phase sounds to the surround channels. This is the basis of Prologic, EARS, and other "surround sound" processing techniques which use a two-channel source. A lot of two-channel sources (e.g. newer video tapes; broadcast material) are clearly recorded with clever phasing to exploit these sorts of processing techniques (the TV news fanfare is played by a band behind you). Depite what Dolby says - there is nothing new in this. With four speakers you could always get surround sound from stereo (since the 1950s) by connecting one pair of speakers out-of-phase: one speaker to L+ and R+; the other to L- and R-. This was called "Haffler" connection, after its inventor. Possibly the chief additional thing the modern versions do (Prologic; EARS; etc) is to take a low-frequency cross-over, too, and give the lower frequencies, irrespective of phase, to the ".1", LFE, or subwoofer channel. So you effectively get 5.1 sound from 2.0 recording. Multichannel recordings. This is where each channel, with more than two, is recordered separately, and encoded in such a way as to be capable of being decoded by either the player or the receiver. There were experiments with analogue multichannel sound, called things like "Quadraphonic" or "Ambisonic" sound in the 1960s-70s, but they never really took off. Digital recording and transmission have made the whole thing more feasible. Today there are some genuine multichannel broadcasts (e.g. in Europe Swedish radio) but they are still mostly experimental. We are mostly talking, now DVD. Multichannel formats I have seen:- -2.1 -4.0 -5.0 -5.1 -6.1 ... where ".1" is the LFE or subwoofer channel. The competing formats for rendering digital multichannel are:- For audio on DVD-Videos: Dolby Digital; DTS For multichannel audio: SACD; DVD-Audio. This explains why you cannot choose "EARS" or "Prologic" whilst playing a DVD, unless it is recorded in 2.0. Sorry I do not know "Neo" - I thought it was someone in The Matrix. It could be a deliberate pun: generating extra, virtual channels from phase information in a smaller number is often called "Matrixing". This is mostly how you get 6.1 from 5.1 sources, I think.
Johnny Silver Member Username: Johnny Post Number: 127 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 20:18 GMT John, Well put as always! You are obviously much more "technically minded" than I am. I know what the end result of all of these things are, just not how this end result is achieved. I just read through the DTS website and will post a quote below. From what I can understand, DTS NEO 6 is the same as EARS and Pro Logic II (see John's above posting-the "stereo sources" section). Here is a quote directly from www.dtsonline.com under their description of DTS NEO 6. DTS Neo:6 "Sound systems that offer discrete multi-channel sound are widely considered superior to matrix-based systems. However, due to the large library of matrix surround motion pictures available on disc and VHS tape, analog television broadcasts and stereo CDs, even homes equipped for discrete multi-channel sound require high-quality matrix decoding capability. DTS Neo:6 makes this possible." "Today's typical matrix decoder derives a center channel and a mono surround channel from two-channel matrix stereo material. While steering logic provides better separation that a simple matrix, it can be disappointing to users accustomed to discrete multi-channel because of its mono, band-limited surround." "Neo:6 offers several important improvements, including: -Stereo matrix to 6.1 or 5.1. Neo:6 provides up to six full-band channels of matrix decoding from stereo matrix material. Users with 6.1 and 5.1 systems will derive six and five separate channels, respectively, corresponding to the standard home theatre speaker layouts. (The ".1" subwoofer channel is generated by bass management in the preamp or receiver.) -Extended Surround. Neo:6 provides optimum decoding of Extended Surround matrix soundtracks, and can also generate a center surround channel from 5.1 material. -Natural sound field with precise localization. Neo:6 technology allows various sound elements within a channel or channels to be steered separately, and in a way which follows the original presentation naturally. -Music mode. Neo:6 offers a music mode that expands stereo non-matrix recordings into the five- or six-channel layout without diminishing the subtlety and integrity of the original stereo recording."
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 256 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 20:54 GMT CORRECTION - "DO NOT TRY THAT AT HOME" I thought about my last post some more, and realise I got the Hafler connection wrong. You need two speaker-pair outlets (A and B; each has L and R). I.e. what is now called "two zones". It is like this: Amp speakers "A": Connect +amp to +speaker and -amp to -speaker. For each channel, L and R, just as normal for stereo. This is all the in-phase stuff. For Hafler surround channels. Amp speakers "B": Connect +amp_R to +speaker_R; +amp_L to +speaker_L; -speaker_L to - speaker_R. The last one can have a simple potentiometer (variable resistor) in the circuit between the - terminals of the L and R speakers, in series, in case the surround is too loud. This gives all the out-of-phase stuff in the recording, made in-phase. Speakers "A" are your front speakers, Left and Right. In phase. Speakers "B": Speaker_L is your "surround Left"; Speaker_R is your "surround Right". Giving out-of-phase information in-phase. Johnny, I see a later post. Thanks. Will come back to this tomorrow. I thought I should jump in with this in case anyone did what I said earlier. I think Prologic 1 is not very different from a Hafler connection, except the ".1" channel is added by means of a cross-over. BTW my nice old 1970s Armstrong amp (where I got this) says the Hafler connection for surround works best with "Matrixed" recordings!
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 259 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 23:55 GMT Johnny, Many thanks. I see; I have learned something. Neo:6 extracts more and better surround sound channels from 2-channel sources than does Dolby Prologic, so they (DTS) claim. But it is the same principle at work. You will never be able to buy a "Neo:6" DVD. My receiver does Dolby Prologic and EARS. EARS is audibly better. I like 5.1 and am not convinced I need a sixth channel, whether virtual (matrixed) or real. But if anyone likes the idea, and has the dosh, go for it.
Jason Hildebrand Unregistered guest	Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 01:24 GMT I agree with John A., stereo/2ch music when using those modes sounds like garbage. One inexpensive change I made to my system has really made my listening experience quite amazing. I have a NAD T761 and I wanted to incorporate my rears in to my listen experience without using those modes. So what I did was I went out and bought an A/B box from Radio Shack for like around $40.00. That t773 has B speaker outs. So what you do is run speaker wire from your B speaker outs on you receiver to the A/B Box B side. Then out of the surround rears from the NAD, I ran speaker wire to the A side. Then the common out of the A/B box, I ran to my rear speakers. So all I do when watching a movie or anything that using the 5.1 surround sound, I set the A/B box to A and there you go, "Surround". Then when I'm listening to music, I set the A/B box to "B" and turn on my B speaker on the NAD and all of a sudden I have this full sounding soundscape using all four of my speaker. The sound is still in 2ch, but it takes advantage of my rears and gives a great full room sound. If you want to take it a step further, which I always do, I added a Niles Speaker selector in-between the B speaker outs on my NAD and the A/B box to control my volume of my rears when listening to music. Then I can fine tune my rears volume independantly from my fronts. This also allowed me to run another pair of speakers on the B outs of my NAD in my kitchen. I like music. Very confusing yet a simple idea. P.S. My user name and password got dumped, anyone know why?

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