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New member Username: DesertspacePost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-05 | I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge about turntables. I'm hoping my willingness to learn will make up for my ignorance! Here's my story/question. I recently got a Pro-ject 1.2 and expected good things from it. I read several reviews that said it would sound better than a similarly priced CD player. Well, imagine my disappointment in learning that it sounds, well, not very good. I was hoping to experience some sort of vinyl epiphany, and instead I spent several nights listening and wondering what is wrong with my ears and/or my life. The sound is extremely choked in the high-mid to high frequency range; when you expect music to open up and be expansive and airy, it just sort of crackles and fizzles out. It's as though a ceiling is being forced down upon the music, crushing all the high frequency information. Now, a few caveats (and, God willing, these lead to my question): 1. I'm using an awful, terrible phono preamp. 2. I'm using the cart that came on the 1.2. I guess the question, then, is this: Will an upgraded phono pre (I can probably only afford one of the common "entry" boxes like the Pro-ject phono box, at least at first) and upgraded cart make such a dramatic difference that I'll eventually be singing the praises of analog like so many others? Thanks! Andy |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 495 Registered: Feb-04 | Andy, The first thing to do is to check to see if the turntable is set up correctly. Here is a link to get you started: http://www.walkeraudio.com/fine_tuning_your_turntable.htm After you get it set up probably, it should sound musical and relatively good. However, there's no guarantee that the turntable will sound better than your cd player. It depends on the cd player. Rule #1: Don't believe everything you read, especially in those advertising rags (Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, et al.) There's a lot of hype out there. I used to have a Music Hall tt, which was very similar to your Project. It sounded good, but nothing special--different from my cd player but not necessarily better-sounding. IMHO you'd be throwing money out the door by upgrading to a better phono stage or cartridge with such a basic tt. If you want to hear the beauty of vinyl you need a better tt and tonearm. We're talking a Rega P3/RB300 or better. I dumped my Music Hall tt for a VPI Scout. The difference in sound between the two tts is like the difference between the Skokie Middle School Orchestra and the Chicago Symphony. That was my vinyl epiphany. It didn't come cheap. Good luck with your vinyl journey. If you have the patience and perseverance, it will be rewarding. |
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New member Username: BlarsonPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-05 | Two Cents, Judging from your geographical examples, I reckon we're in the same neighborhood. Scout treating you well? And where's the Scout Appreciation Thread, anyhow? (x-post) |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 496 Registered: Feb-04 | Brandon, "The Amazing Scout" - It's coming soon to a forum near you... Used to live in Rogers Park, but now in SF bay area. Loved the city, but not the weather. |
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New member Username: DesertspacePost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks for the info, Two Cents. You know, it's interesting...I've gotten answers ranging from "yes, it's absolutely your preamp and cart" to your answer, which is basically, "save your money for a decent table." To be honest, it's a little hard to know what the truth is. Regardless, thanks again for the info. I'm enjoying learning from the resources here. andy |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 499 Registered: Feb-04 | Andy, I know what you mean. There doesn't seem to be a straight answer in the world of audio. Just a bunch of contradicting opinions. I have two things to add. First, it would be worthwhile to get to know a local dealer who you can trust for good advice or someone who has a lot of experience with analog gear. Visit a local store that specializes in analog gear and see if they can help you out. Second, even if the Project tt isn't the best, it's a great way to find out if analog is right for you. As you're beginning to find out, there's a lot of fussing with vinyl. Playing and maintaining a tt is a lot more labor intensive than a cd player, and keeping records clean and static free, living with the hiss and pops of vinyl, etc. isn't for everyone. But if you find this fun, then at some point you can invest in a quality system that will give you what you're ultimately after. Best of luck to you. |
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New member Username: DesertspacePost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-05 | Mr. Two Cents: Thanks again for the good tips. I'd like to ask something else, if I may. You mention "hiss and pops," and this is something I've been wondering about. Last night I listened to a brand new record--straight out of a shrink-wrapped package--and it already had plenty of pops and weird noises. What's that about? Is it preventable? I certainly do enjoy this whole quest, though. I don't even know why, exactly. I guess there's an appealing mystery in vinyl that you don't get with CDs. It's as though you can be more intimate with the music, closer to it. andy |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 501 Registered: Feb-04 | Andy, The noises can be a number of things. It could be a bad pressing. It could be residue from the pressing that needs to be cleaned. I was once told that it's more important to clean a brand new record than one that's been played a few times. I found this to be good advice. I'm not sure if the "weird" noises are distortions caused by improper set-up. There's not much to go by. If you can look (or listen) past these unwanted noises, you definitely can get closer to the music with vinyl. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, Tx Post Number: 25 Registered: May-04 | Though consistent pops and snaps can be itrritating when listening to LP's, they can be reduced. A good wet cleaner is the best solution. That said, the only wet cleaners that are worth the money are the completely automated units that won't allow too much fluid to be placed on the disc or any fluid and grime to remain in the groove. A wet wash with a hand held cleaner is likely to make more noise apparent if you use to much fluid or can't completely remove the grime from the groove. A dry cleaner is best used every time you play a disc. The most often recommended is the carbon fiber brush with two rows of fibers one either side of the brush. Hold the brush at a slight angle to the groove and then rotate the brush as you sweep the groove clean. If you are using your table when the air is dry from home heating systems, the friction produced when you pull the disc from the sleeve will cause static electricity which will attract more dust to the groove. A de-static gun will help loosen the grip the vinyl has on the dust to allow the brush to clean the groove. Also keep the stylus clean with a brush and a wet wash. Again not too much fluid is needed. One of the benefits of a better turntable system is the rigidity of the player as a whole. The constant rushing noise you hear as record surface noise is greatly reduced by a better table. What you are hearing in the lower priced tables is the result of the micro vibrations that occur within the system of a lower priced table. When everything is held more consistently in place by higher tolerances, the noise doesn't exist because the random motion of the various parts is reduced. This doesn't mean you have to buy an expensive table, but just realize that noise will be lowered as your system improves. Until the table is upgraded, keeping the record and platter surface clean will give the best results. You might explore a replacement mat as some tables are not provided with the quietest surface for the record to sit on. Reviews of your table can often tell you the desirability of replacing the mat. If you do change mats, don't get a mat that dramatically alters the tracking angle of your cartridge unless you can change the height of the tonearm also. |
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New member Username: DesertspacePost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-05 | Just to answer a few questions (and maybe elicit more advice for a new guy like me), the table was set up by a pro, so I think I can safely eliminate that from the list of potential problems. As for whether the mat should be replaced, that's a good question. All I can tell you, Jan, is that I'm using the mat that came with the table (again, a Pro-Ject 1.2). I've never seen mention of a need to replace this mat, but who knows, really. Any more input out there? |