Advice urgently required on amps + the rest!

Glynn New member Username: Thebiggfella Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 23:10 GMT Hello all. I'm new to these boards, and the world of amps, speakers etc so please bare with my ignorance! My TV packed in recently which prompted me to look into investing a whole new AV system. I have decided on a TV and DVD recorder (Philips 30PF9975C and Pioneer 5100HS respectively) but when it came to the sound side of things, I'm really at a loss. I bought a magazine which gave me some pointers and then payed a visit to my local AV shop. The guy was very helpful (I think!). Here's what he recommended to complete the system: Amp/receiver - Yamaha RXV 1400 CD player - Acram CD73 Speakers - front - B & W DM602's Centre - B & W RCR60 Rear - B & W DM601's Sub woofer - MJ Acoustics Ref. 1 I've looked at reviews for the above kit and it all seems very good. He assures me that it will all sound great together and he will even put it all together in the shop to let me see how it sounds. However, not one to rush into things, I want some other opinions which is where you guys and gals come in. I've looked at some of the other threads here and there's some very knowledgeable folk here, so what do you think about the above set up? What do think about replacing the amp/receiver and CD with a Cyrus 8 and Cyrus CD6 respectively? A good idea or not? All the leads will naturally be of a good quality. Go easy with the technical stuff - I'm a novice! Just one more thing whilst I'm here: I've seen quotes for the Yamaha amp/receiver for $560. Here in the UK it's going to set me back £800. Rip off Britain or what!!
Gregory Stern Silver Member Username: Gman Post Number: 233 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 14:03 GMT That Yamaha price must be a combination of the very low US dollar exchange rate and your VAT. But paying almost $1500 for a Yamaha 1400 is indeed frightening. At that price you could buy the top of the line NAD T773 in the US and have $50 or so left over. Are local brands in the UK like Arcam priced that high? Being from the US, can't advise on Cyrus. I don't think that brand makes it over here except by British ex-patriots or US military or other citizenry making their way back home after considerable time in the UK. So come on Brits, give your mate some help!!! :-)
Glynn New member Username: Thebiggfella Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 17:44 GMT Gregory, thanks for your response. I could go on for ages about how we get ripped off over here, from the price of cars, petrol and consumer items like the Yamaha, clothes. However, this is not the time nor the place. I was on the net until the early hours checking reviews on the salesman's recommendations and also the prices. He was spot on with the kit - all good reviews. The prices he quoted for the following were on par with what we'd pay anywhere in the UK: the Arcam CD player is £350, 602's £300, 601's £250, sub £799 (with wood finish), and the RXV1400 £800 (that's obviously the going rate in the UK - couldn't find it any cheaper unless it was in a black finish). The TV could can be had cheaper off the net than from the shop (£2065 inc. boomerang stand - £85 cheaper) as could the DVD recorder (£600 - £100 cheaper, both of which I suspect are still higher prices than you'd pay in the US.
valeem Bronze Member Username: Valeem Post Number: 93 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 13:51 GMT Glyn: Yeah, I agree 'Rip off Britain' still! I personally wouldn't entertain the Yamaha at it's inflated price (It's not your problem!) but if you end up liking it and think it's better than similarly (uninflated) priced receivers then go for it. Others to consider for B&W speakers would be similarly priced receivers from NAD and Marantz (there are others I just don't know what they might be!). I think with their more regular pricing you will get more value for your money. As far as using that nice Arcam CD player with that receiver or any other. If you are looking for ultimate stereo performance then I think you will be better off running it through a seperate stereo amp. When you send the signal from the cd player to a receiver the receiver will use its own ADC's and DAC's to process the signal again for stereo output therefore reducing ultimate sound quality. It's unavoidable. If you want to make full use of the Arcam's ability you are better off with a stereo amp. You can however minimise the loss by buying a receiver that offers good stereo ability. Some brands that offer this are NAD, Marantz, Pioneer (AX), Rotel and some HK's. Personally I would buy a receiver and the cd player and buy a stereo amp when funds allow. Just my two pence! Gregory: I remember reading a thread on this board stating that Mission speakers had divorced their distribution from Denon and they had decided on another distributor or they had decided to do it themselves and they will be offering their impressive stereo and AV electronics (Cyrus) in America.
Anthony Tigero Bronze Member Username: Tonytiger Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2004	Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 21:43 GMT If you follow the many threads here. You'll find a lot of support for NAD and a little less for Marantz. But I think some (not all) people look towards those two instead of Yamaha. ...and some don't like the three of them at all. But take the guy up on the offer and see if the combination is the sound you like. Goodness knows there are hundreds of combinations of good speakers and amps out there. A chance to have the dealer wire it up and let you hear it is great. You might even want to have him switch a component or 2 to hear the difference it makes. Try another amp and see if sounds better or worse with the B&Ws (I've seen many good reviews on them). That Yamaha price does seem high, but I remember my friend from London coming here to buy Nike sneeks and Calloway golf clubs.
Jan Vigne Unregistered guest	Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 06:33 GMT The British economy is worse than the American situation (though our commander in cheif is working on that problem too). The British hifi companies have always made great sounding products without the button and knob gee whizzer technology of the Japanese stuff like Yamaha. Do your patriotic duty and buy as much homegrown stuff as possible and only resort to the Yamaha if budget forces the issue. Buy from a reputable shop, which it sounds like you have found if the salesperson will hook everything up in the store for you. If that's the case the store probably has some policy toward helping you set things up at home to get the best sound from whatever you pick and probaly has a policy that will allow you to trade up in the future. If this salesperson can show you how to make the most out of turning this purchase into a system that will grow through the coming years I'd say you should thank him and reward him with a purchase. It sounds like this store has your best interest in mind. Trust them. (But remember, buy British when you can.)
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 471 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 06:46 GMT If it matters (I think it does not) note that a lot of respected UK audio names have their wares assembled in China, these days. Glynn has probably purchased by now. I think he got good advice, but would definitely look at NAD or Cambridge Audio instead of Yamaha for the receiver; Arcam if he has more dosh. Also consider KEF speakers, at least on a par with B&W. There are my brand loyalties and prejudices on the table. In UK I got excellent advice and service from two quite different BADA members (I moved). Find your nearest and check it out. Most important point for the beginner. The time to buy a CD player is now passed. Get a DVD player with DVD-Audio. It will play CDs, too. But DVD-Audio is a revelation. It is the future. It is wonderful. Jan: there was a ludicrous and vulgar "Backing Britain" campaign in the 70s, I remember. Mostly to get people to buy cars that by that time were almost complete junk and had no redeeming feature, except the legend and the romance of the marque. The satirists had great time: "It may be rubbish, but, by jingo, it's British rubbish!". For audio, avoid brands with waving flags in their web site. Buy the best you can. If you like country x then try to get them to make the best, and hope they do. But it does no-one any good to shore up an ailing industries by buying products just because of the completely irrelevant question of where they have their head offices - or even their manufacturing plants. It's also a waste of your money. I forget whether it was Samuel Johnson or Oscar Wilde, but it is right-on. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Rick Barnes Bronze Member Username: Rick_b New york Usa Post Number: 61 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 10:26 GMT JohnA., It was Samuel Johnson.
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 473 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 12:22 GMT Rick, Thanks. Good. Wisdom, not just wit. I've heard it attributed to Wilde, too, but's not quite his style.
Rick Barnes Bronze Member Username: Rick_b New york Usa Post Number: 62 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 13:23 GMT You are very welcome!
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 482 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 14:29 GMT Thank you, Rick.
Jan Vigne Unregistered guest	Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 02:51 GMT You guys missed the point. Firstly, buying a product made (we're not talking assembled) in your own country gives you an advantage in pricing. Check the value of the dollar exchange against the Euro and the U.S. trade deficit for more clarification. And I would like you to find a Japanese audio company that doesn't have at least the majority of their products assembled in China, Taiwan or Korea. But beyond the flag waving stuff, it sounded as if Glynn had found a specialty shop as opposed to a big box. Let's all fight against big boxes. Circuit City fired their best producers last year because the bean counters decided most people make their decision based on price alone. Therefore, the folks that knew a little bit and could offer some level of assistance got canned because management felt they were caosting them money. The only conclusion you can reach is Circuit City's knew sales slogan should be "Buy from us, our sales staff is the dumbestand laziest bunch we can find". Since most specialty shops offer better service and work toward customer retention they carry a selection of products they feel they can stand behind and hopefully offer a more knowledgeable sales staff. Secondly, since many Brittish manufacturers develop their equipment with upgrading in mind, my suggestion still stands that if the salesperson can show a path to upgrading the system that does not involve scrapping a piece of equipment, Glynn should buy that system. How much upgrading is possible with a Yamaha reciever? Zero, zilch, nada!!! And how many of you would rather have a piece of equipment built with sound quality in mind as opposed to how many variations on the "church" setting you can store in memory? If my memory serves me well (no pun), the last piece of Sony ES I sold boasted over 5,000 variations could be achieved in their various modes. Finally, I wasn't discussing MG Midgets and Triumph TR6's or any company that used a Lucas electrical system. Everybody hold up your hand if you would like to own or have owned a Linn LP-12 that you purchased in the mid 70's for $169 or a Planar 3 for $149. How about a pair of Quad speakers and Quad tube amp, a Naim system, a pair of LS35A speakers (numerous manufacturers) or Spendor BC-1's. Need I go on? Now how many of you brag that you once owned a Yamaha M-1? Or a Kenwood (Trio) Kx-5600? Can you get parts for a Pioneer SX-1250, a loudness switch for a Yamaha R1040? The companies deny they ever made such a product and advise you to junk the old stuff and buy their new product because it has 150 watts X a gazillion channels and it only weighs 7 lbs. Can you get the above mentioned Brittish gear serviced? You bet! That doesn't mean the Brittish have not turned out some crap and that some good companies haven't disappeared from sight (anyone interested in the Soundex pre-amp I have in my closet?) but how many times do you have to buy some Japanese piece of junk before you learn? Just to toss a little mud into the KoolAid, buy Super Audio CD!
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 499 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 05:24 GMT Jan, Brilliant. The funny thing is, I agree, completely, about quality, service, repairability, upgradability, power, DSP sound modes. In fact, everything. I would probably join your political party. I even own a Rega Planar 3, and it's not for sale. Never will be. I bought it from a BADA dealer, new, in 1979. I am also down on planned obsolescence, bean counters, Lucas electrics, and Circuit City, amongst other things you mention. Where we disagree is - this is a big one - I think you've got the wrong target. I do not believe that Britain has a monopoly in these good things, or ever had one. Last year I got personal service from an audio multinational. My regional distributor has a tech department who sold me the receiver service manual at a nominal cost, then a guy actually phoned me (internationally) at work to enquire about the problem, and suggest component replacements. And no, I didn't have to buy from them - bridge diodes and electrolytic capacitors are all the same (but get the temperature range right) and all made in Singapore or somewhere, anyway. And he knew his stuff. It worked. The multinational is NAD. But I save the really important matter for last. By far the most serious issue that divides is in your last, throw-away remark. I do hope you were not serious, and perhaps merely aiming to be provocative. For otherwise I blink, uncomprehendingly, across the vast philosophical gulf that separates me from anyone who holds such opinions and yet could think, even for one moment, of recommending SACD.
Ben James Bronze Member Username: Black_math Post Number: 35 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 19:55 GMT Arcam makea a pretty nice AV receiver. I think it is the AVR200. It should be comparable to NAD and Marantz (maybe a little better). I would look at that, esp if you are considering an Arcam CD player.
goleafsgo Unregistered guest	Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 23:41 GMT i second that, i own an Arcam AVR200 and i think it is the most musical receiver at its price. If music is important to you definitely have a look. i do find it a little "soft" sounding and mellow for movies -- don't get me wrong it does sound nice with films, but just doesn't quite have that raw edge which sometimes squeezes out a little bit of extra excitement. Rotel and Cambridge Audio are other receivers i would consider as well, from what i've read they sound like dandies. i think its wise to buy a musical surround receiver as it will future-proof your purchase if you want to move to DVD-audio down the road for music. the UK brands i mentioned (arcam and cambridge audio) are fine products -- they're expensive where i'm from but you can probably get them for decent dollars (or pounds!) in your homeland. Good luck and as always, listen (and trust your ears!) before you buy. Have fun!
Jan Vigne Unregistered guest	Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 00:22 GMT To John A: Listen and learn, boys. Listen and learn.
John A. Silver Member Username: John_a Post Number: 515 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 06:21 GMT Thanks, Jan. I'll drink to that.
Gregory Stern Silver Member Username: Gman Mt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 384 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 15:27 GMT From moving a number of times with the same systems it has become apparent to me (and many others)how dramatic an effet the room can have on sound (undoubtedly why there are professional acoustic engineers). After good speakers, the interaction of the speakers and the room has the second most important effect on sound. Obviously a poorly engineered recording or signal will sound bad anwhere (different, but still bad). But a top notch CD, DVD, or other signal will very much vary on what room you have your kit set in and what sounded great in one room can sound significantly worse in another. In a "lively" room a good sized rug can do wonders as can drapes and wall hangings strategically placed. A good parametric equalizer is sometimes a godsend and a relatively inexpensive SPL meter is always a must--not to mention speaker placement and subwoofer placement. And the more difficult load (speakers) you are driving, the better amplification you will need. While on the surface the above seems obvious, many people that have perfectly fine speakers and equipment will start searching for replacement equipment before they deal with the rooms acoustic anomalies. Often a little fix up is all you need and you don't need ludicrous Room Tunes or other devices to do it. I've used colorful rugs with designs as wall hangings in some places to great effect.
lorenzo w. lopez Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801 Post Number: 60 Registered: Apr-04	Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 05:59 GMT Glynn, Let your God given faculties (ears) decide for you. For if you hear something wonderful among the vast suggestions of equipment you personally listen to then hearing something coming from heaven will not be difficult. Jan puts it well listen and learn! We never stop the process. Hope John A has heard his SACD already.

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