B&W N805 question
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New member Username: Kid_aPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-04 | Hi all, I recently purchased a set of nautilus 805 standmounts and i'm wondering what i should do for amplification. I have a rotel 1062 integrated, and i'm thinking of adding a rotel rb-1050 power amp; that way, the integrated could run the tweeters and the power could run the woofers. Would it be best to go this route or to get a more powerful power amp (say, the rb-1070) and use that exclusively to run the speakers? Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 408 Registered: Sep-04 | kid a, You're not going to like this answer.... The 1062 is a fine amplifier which is more than powerful enough to drive the 805Ns to a fair degree. The 805N is not that difficult to drive. That said, I'm not saying this is a sensible match!  The 805N is ruthlessly revealing of inferior sources, and in this context the Rotel is really and truly not quite in the same ballpark. As I said earlier it's a great amp which punches above its weight, but the 805N is two weights up on it. So where would the Rotel have to be improved? Oddly enough, not just power. The real improvements that would give great gains are in the preamp section (and the source before it which you haven't mentioned). We would have to do a significant jump in amplifier performance and so we are now talking about amplifiers in the following vein: Naim 202 Preamp with Naim 200 power amp (really suits the 805N well) Cyrus PreX, MonoX Arcam FMJ C30 preamp, P35 power amp (or P1 monoblocks) Classe's baby integrated amp. There are many many more examples of amplifiers which would suit the 805N. It's a fabulous speaker. You can drive it happily with the Rotel for some time to come while you investigate what is to become your next system, built around your gorgeous new speakers. In order to do this while gaining the best advice, you should really try to identify local dealers of specialist equipment and go to them with the express intention of matching a system to your speakers. Do NOT buy the first thing you see and like the sound of. Try alternatives. Hear various demos and ALWAYS hear your target equipment with your speakers. If the dealer doesn't do your speakers, ask if you can take them in, or if you can borrow the equipment for a few days to ensure that it will work well with what you've got. Borrowing usually means you'll have to place the full amount of the value of the equipment with the retailer of course, but this is on the understanding that you're simply doing a home demo, and any good dealer will do this. Needless to say, as I mentioned above, the source is very important too - in fact, there are some proponents of a theory that the source is all-important, arguing that if the source doesn't get it right, the signal received by the amp will be broken and that this will be amplified into the speakers and they will simply transmit a broken signal to you. Now it may sound alright, but it may just not be sounding as good as it should. What's worse is that the speakers you've chosen are very revealing of any inaccuracies further up the chain, so a broken signal (musically) will come through loud and clear! Therefore a source should match its amplifier etc. The Rotel is still a fine amp for the money. Save your cash for now and do a lot of investigation into the next level up of amplification. Adding a power stage at this point is of little value. Take the broader 'system' approach and you'll end up with much more reward in the long run. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: Kid_aPost Number: 6 Registered: Nov-04 | Frank, thanks so much for your detailed and informative post. My dealer seems adamant that the way to go is to add a 1050 power amp; he insists that bi-amping will bring marked improvement, even when compared to a better amp. I looked at other higher end amps though, because i want to make a wise and informed decision. I tried the Bryston B-60 and the Creek 5350, neither of which i liked. I ended up bringing home a musical fidelity A3.2 to audition. It is being replaced by the A5, and as such, i'm able to buy the demo model for a decent price (about $1550 Can). Any thoughts on this amp? My source is a Rotel 1072 cd player, and though i'd like to move up to the matching A3.2 cd, i just can't afford it at the moment. Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: TevoChicago, IL USA Post Number: 105 Registered: Feb-05 | IMHO, an A3.2 at $1550CDN for a demo is a good deal. This integrated sold for $1900USD new. Here are some review links via MF's website: http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/News/reviews.jsp?pid=2776 Your ears should be the final arbiter but I personally have not been disappointed by any MF kit that I've heard. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 40 Registered: Feb-05 | Musical Fidelity and Creek make great integrated amps, and the musical fidelity CD player sounds excellent with either though I prefer it mated with MF amp. There is a dealer nearby which sells all of the products you just mentioned (Bradford's Home Entertainment) so I have heard them. Frank is right, I am a Rotel fan and it mates well with many B&W products, but your speakers are out of their league. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 409 Registered: Sep-04 | kid a, I'm glad you're not too offended at my original post. I couldn't think of a particularly good way of sugaring the pill, especially since I know, admire and like the Rotel amp anyway! I'm not a fan of MF products generally. I find them a bit too sweet and not particularly rhythmic. Now anybody who knows Naim fans will tell you that a Naim fan is unlikely to like MF product! I'm a Naim fan (among other things), so bear that in mind. That said, the MF is more in keeping with the capabilities of the speaker. If you like its delivery then you know you're in the right ballpark. However, I suggest that the nice person lending you the amp may be in a position to show you what the 'correct' source would do so you would get a 'system' perspective, as opposed to a 'component' perspective. I think this is important since it'll give you a plan of which way to move forward. Remember, you're not in any hurry since your current components can do the job reasonably well for now. The matching 1072 is a fine CD player for the money, but it's in the same league as the amp. The important thing is to *take your time*. Sorry, I disagree with your dealer. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 735 Registered: Oct-04 | I'd just like to add a note about "upgrading" here. Arthur and others are giving you very good advice - pay close attention to what you put INTO those B&Ws. Not only the amp, but the CD/DVD/SACD whatever player as well. Personal note: when I upgraded from Polk speakers to my current B&W 705s (which I dearly love) I quickly had to upgrade from an Onkyo to a NAD 763 receiver. Major difference in sound quality! Wow! Then, of course, my CD player showed up as squeeky tinny shrill on the 705s. Had to upgrade that, as well - to a new Yamaha 5770. Big difference in sound - again. Never thought it would make that much difference. I can't afford your gear, sir - but my point is this. Even at my level, the B&Ws showed up every fault in every piece of upstream gear! Bad CDs sounded worse. Bad player sounded worse. Mediocre receiver sounded worse. I became paranoid! But now - well, the NAD and Yammie pair well with the 705s. However, I'm giving away about 200 of my early-80s classical CDs - they sound horrible! Especially early DG ones. Didn't sound that bad on "cheaper" gear. Lesson learned - by me, anyway! (grin) Moral: Listen carefully and buy the best upstream gear you can afford. And whose differences you can hear. thanx for listening. . . |
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Bronze Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 41 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank, I definately know what you are talking about with Naim and Musical Fidelity as they sound very different. I am one of those rare birds who likes both brands very much. In facct I like Naim better than MF. I was looking at cost and perhaps I should not have been as kida has not stated a budget. You can get more power from MF and Creek for the money than you can Naim. One of the sweetest systems I've ever heard was the least expensive Naim electronics with ProAc speakers. Wow. So I would definately would throw in a vote for Naim. But be careful because it's synergy you are looking for. MF and Creek definately mate well those speakers. |
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Anonymous | Gee Larry, it sounds like your money was well spent if it makes 200 of your CDs that you previously enjoyed sound horrible. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 742 Registered: Oct-04 | Yep - always knew that the old Deutsche Gramophone discs were tinny and shrill - but until I got "good" gear, I didn't realize just how bad most of them are! Now, I'm carefully going through my collection, and replacing as many discs as possible with SACDs or new CD versions of the same compositions. And I must admit that your term "previously enjoyed" isn't quite accurate. I previously listened to them - but never truly "enjoyed" them as much as other CDs with better sonics. Also please note that my "old" CD player got tossed as well. With great speakers, it was, as a fine British reviewer phrased it: "wince-worthy!" Great review - and highly accurate! Was a JVC player, BTW. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 412 Registered: Sep-04 | Some high end kit does show up bad recordings for what they are, making them unlistenable. Some kit does not do this, allowing you to see through the recording to the quality of the performance (which DGs are usually excellent, although I agree that their early digital recordings were abominable and nearly killed DG). I would not expect your NAD receiver to be in the former category. I have used the NAD in many scenarios, and it's always the essence of the performance that comes through - it's one reason why I admire NAD a lot. I don't know the Yamaha at all. My experience with a few universal players is that they major on the high res formats and really leave the CD format in as an afterthought - at least the sonic performance seems to come across this way. A basic NAD C521BEE Cd player provides a better musical performance than the universal players I have tried - ridiculous really. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 745 Registered: Oct-04 | Frank: agree with you, sir - but in reality I am talking about the combination of B&W-NAD-Yamaha that makes the best - and worst - of CDs come through. I'd say that 85% of my "bad" CDs are DG issues up to, oh, say about 1989. They seem better after than, somehow. . . Again - universal players do a bang-up job with SACD - but leave CD in the dust, for the most part. But one reason I got the Yammie is that the company says it was built from ground up with audio in mind first - video second. It shows, and thus I am - or was - genuinely pleased. Until it started "grinding" noises on some discs, and did strange volume-shift things. Went back to the factory last week. Still waiting for NAD to bring out a killer universal player! Hoping. . . |
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Thomas B Unregistered guest | I am looking for front and center channel speakers for a new home theater setup. My problem is that all of these speakers will be installed in cabinets. I have been looking for bookshelf speakers for the fronts and plan to purchase a sub as well. I have auditioned the B&W 805's, KEF XQ1, Revel M22 and so far my favorite is the M22's - although they cost more than the $2500 that I hoped to spend on the fronts and center. As I was looking for more info on the web, I saw much good press on the Von Schweikert VR-1 / LCR-15, the Usher X-718 and the JMLabs Electra 906. I am looking for the pair that will sound the best in my cabinets - also at a good price. I am also trying to locate "local" dealers (Minnesota) for the Von Schweikert, Usher and JMLabs so I can hear them personally. Several of these speakers are rear ported which I have read may be a problem in a cabinet. The VR-1 is not ported and the 906's are front ported. The M22 has a "switch" on the back that can be set for either stand mounting or close to a wall. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated... |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 415 Registered: Sep-04 | Larry, My point was that you may find your DG discs to be listenable with a dedicated CD player such as a NAD C542. Thomas, don't you think this is a discussion for a separate thread? Regards, Frank. |
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