Archive through March 02, 2005
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 680 Registered: Oct-04 | Sorry, gang, but these past few days have been rather hectic. Have shipped the Yammie back to the company for "repair, replacement, exchange," or whatever they intend to do with it. Too many problems - and so it is in the hands of FedEx. (sob) The NAD apparently has some problems, as well. Called the NAD customer service, and the nice chap said that I obviously have problems with the DAC, and something in the circuits that makes the unit shut down - for no apparent reason - about three times a week or so. No loud music, no power surges, nothing apparent. Just shuts off. And the digital input "seems" to have volume shifts. The chap was NOT optimistic as to an easy fix. Sigh. Sooooo - this next week I take the NAD into our local (shudder) repair shop for their examination. Double sigh. My Internet connection somehow got messed up, and it was finally traced to my cable modem, which has been "jump started," and appears back in action. My friend underwent "routine" laparoscopic gall bladder surgery - and then his heart stopped on the operating table. Big trauma, operation all messed up - but at the moment, he is resting OK, and although super-hooked up to monitors, is I guess "out of danger." Life gives and then takes back, don't it? Anyway, Mer and I are hand-holding his wife, who is a total mess about the situation. So - the all-white chicken (double grin - loved it, Keg) is back, sorta. Mid-out CDs and such for weeks - so my mental health is not the best, as y'all will surely understand. Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?? More anon. . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Lordy, Lordy!!! What is dat been goin' on 'roun' here? I does dat Mambo fo' Melissa at Midnight and thinks my work be done. An' den I fines I done got to fin' anuther ol'bird for dat der Yammie Hammie. Well, it done gonna have to waits, cause de moon, she done gone over de other side now. But don' you worry, be happy, de dark o' de moon is even more powerful JooJoo than de big bright stuff gets. And all de folks on the bottom of de world, your little Melissa, she gonna be getting dat stereo better now, jus' you wait an' see. Soon she gonna be doin' dat stereo strut. Jus' glad I could help. An' don' you worry none about dat chicken, she makes some very good eatin' and den I mash up dem bones for medicine. ******************* "No, there would not be much point in an IMAX version of that wonderful movie "Casablanca". But as regards the sense of "being there"." Ah, I'm glad you're seing the value of those old black and whites. But wrapped around me or not, the images are still two dimensional. Now if you tell me I have to start wearing those funky glasses to get the most out of surround... "well, it seems obvious." YEP! "So, we have finally settled the question." YEP! "Surround wins." John? "Even for music." John? "Motion carried?" JOHN? "The hammer is raised.... " Oh, I see, you've been hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. That explains it all. *************** John, why do you think there were loudness switches on older audio pieces? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 868 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, You are remembering to spit the rum at the chicken? Don't forget, that's an important part. Also I think you better do a "no animals were harmed" disclaimer, before you hear from P.E.T.A. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | De Rum? I put de demon Rum in my mouth to spit, but it go down so easy. De work of de Devil. I think my neighbor, he spy for dis P.E.T.A. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 1968: Discussing the war capacity of a country that had been fighting for 23 years and had just staged the massive Tet Offensive, U.S. General William C. Westmoreland states: "I do not believe Hanoi can hold up under a long war." Didn't ya just love Willie? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 869 Registered: Dec-03 | LOL! Very funny stuff Jan! 1968: Two weeks after the start of the Tet Offensive, a young Special Forces Sargeant from New York starts his first, of three tours of duty in Southeast Asia. Not so funny stuff................ |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1444 Registered: Aug-04 | We're glad he made it back in the end. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 871 Registered: Dec-03 | Thank you............................ |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1445 Registered: Aug-04 | Played some stereo last night with friday evening drinks. After the Terry Evans sacd finished we retired to the lounge as Mrs Rantz wanted to hear "Gaucho" in that wonderful, full-bodied hi-res surround. When it was over, she simply said, "astounding!" I guess after all this time she just can't get over the 'wow' factor eh? Well, maybe I agree 'cause good quality hi-res recordings do tend to have that 'wow' factor - not the novelty of surround, but the open, airy, nature of voices and instruments that are simply a blessing to the senses. John, you are sooooooo right. Even voodoo juju can't destroy surround - I think the nekked dancing with the white chicken is only a feetish* - maybe too many years of two channeling has come to a head. Larry, I don't know what to say, bad and not so bad news about your friend, the Yammie going on a trip, and now the NAD. What did you say: "Et tu Brutus?" Talk to our friend John, maybe it's a conspiracy. Stay calm. Don't let the b....... get you down. * The following words are not allowed on this discussion board: f-tish |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1446 Registered: Aug-04 | Speaking of 'novelty' surround: Jeff Wayne is remixing his 1978 "War of the Worlds" recording for 5.1 Surround SACD. FTI http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=14158634 Should be interesting - or have at least have a high 'WOW' factor. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 873 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, You be careful with that rum. Too much of that in the moonlight will turn you into a ZOMBIE, for sure. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1447 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan Rick is right about rum: Back in 1971 I became a 'Zombie' and have never touched the stuff since. Can't even bear to smell it! It's the devil's drink fer shore! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 84 Registered: Jan-05 | PATSY IS FREE!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 85 Registered: Jan-05 | WHOA!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 86 Registered: Jan-05 | Wheeeee!!!! Snoopy Dance!!!!! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | And would you care to tell us what Patsy did to get free? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 874 Registered: Dec-03 | SM, Can I assume the Spendors "opened up"? And did the Mapleshade Golden Helix contribute to this delightful sound? Patsy finally sounds like the Patsy you know and love? Just a wild quess...................LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 875 Registered: Dec-03 | This little Snoopy dance didn't happen under the moonlight, with a white chicken, some rum, in some manner of undress did it? Never mind! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 87 Registered: Jan-05 | This little Snoopy dance didn't happen under the moonlight, with a white chicken, some rum, in some manner of undress did it? Uh, well....unless someone can produce a videotape that proves otherwise, the answer is no. lol |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 876 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan?????????????????????????????????????? You did have tape? Didn't you? |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 88 Registered: Jan-05 | Patsy is free due to the magic of planar speaker technology. What a revelation! I ordered the Magnepan MMG on Monday and they were delivered yesterday. The nearest Maggie dealer is 3 hours away so, once again, I bought with speaker unheard....but, they offer a 60 day return period on this model so the risk was minimal. They won't be returned. In fact, this speaker will be the last I buy for quite some time. In the unlikely event I get the upgrade bug, I will make the 3 hour trip to Charleston to listen to the big Maggies. The frequency response specification is similar to the Spendors, 50hz-24,000hz. But, the actual application is night and day. Remember my initial disappointment with the Spendors was they sounded boxy, small and weren't as open as the B&W's? None of that is a problem with these speakers. Everything sounded incredible. Everything. Patsy was the litmus test. "Your Cheatin' Heart" was the one recording the Spendors completely failed. If someone had been able to take a picture of me listening to this with the Maggies, there would have been a dumb-a s s grin spread across my face.....this went on for 7 hours last night. Everything I threw at the Maggies passed with flying colors: Patsy, Starker, Suzanne Vega (the s e n s u a l recording "Nine Objects of Desire" not the folky stuff), Screaming Trees, Jack Johnson, Beethoven's 9th, Getz/Gilberto, Nina Simone, Cowboy Junkies. Even the Heart SACD - which I had previously preferred in surround - was incredibly big. Continued with Talking Heads, Jane's Addiction, The Waterboys, Modest Mouse. Today, I'll throw a little Mahler at it before I have to go out of town for the weekend....damn, I really wish I didn't have to go out of town.... The pairing with the Mac is exceptionally sweet. Mac'n'Maggie, possibly the best pairing since mac'n'cheese. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | SHHHHHHHH!!! Melissa will hear you. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 221 Registered: Dec-03 | John, I think the Cassablanca/IMAX comparison to stereo vs. multi-channel is a good one. However, I liken surround remastering to colorizing Cassablanca (or White X-Mas, It's a Wonderful Life, etc...). Poor Ted Turner thought that people with color televisions would enjoy utilizing them with new masters of classic films (kind of like people needing to use all speakers in a multi-channel setup) Boy was Ted wrong on that one! Stereo wins! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 222 Registered: Dec-03 | As far as surround giving the sense of "being there" let's consider a Grateful Dead show. In surround you would hear the band in front of you doing what they do best...the same thing would happen in stereo...music comimg from the marvelous sound system that they had in front of the listener. What about beside and behind you? Would you put people screaming "Jerry", comparing set list notes, collecting money for a beer run, or asking you if you want a hit? That is what I remember. No music, just people. Has anybody done a mix like that? Does anybody want a mix like that? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2235 Registered: Dec-03 | SimplyMcIntosh I've been listening to a lot planors/ribbons/electrostatics the past year or so and they WILL be my next speaker, I love there sound! The 2 problems they had for "me" in the past was that most took a ton of power to drive them and the bass was horrable! Lately most have figured out the bass deal then you mate them with a small quick sub plus the smaller versions can be powered by tubes! So I will eventually go that route. My little bookshelves I built with a ribbon tweeter sound wonderful and I want more of that sound. Congrats to you and your findings! Please let us know how all music sounds on them. I for one value your taste in music which seems very simular to mine and your taste in the sound of your system! The more detail you can and want to give the better for me! Again that's great findings! Oh yah the third problem was allways the price, now that is more in line! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2236 Registered: Dec-03 | Magnepan MMG Loudspeakers Performance, value, and personal preferences. These are the most important factors to consider whenever buying audio equipment, perhaps never more important than when purchasing speakers. Performance can be summed up simply: How accurately do the loudspeakers reproduce music? Value is also determined easily: Do the speakers perform well and fit your budget at the same time? We all know that most $5000 loudspeakers sound great, but how many of us can afford 'em? Conversely, most of us can swing $69 speakers, but they usually don't perform as well as we'd like. Personal preference is pretty self-explanatory: Some folks -- especially those who listen to Led Zeppelin, Ozzy Osbourne, and Pearl Jam -- are going to want speakers capable of delivering a fleshy bottom end, and they're often willing to sacrifice a bit of high-end detail to get that fat bass. Those who grew up on James Taylor or chamber music aren't necessarily going to want or need bottomless bass -- they're more interested in precisely detailed, transparent sound in the midrange and upper end. And folks who listen to classical music might well find that they want speakers capable of delivering natural-sounding, high-resolution strings as well as making those tubas, tympanis, and double-bassoons sound and feel as if they're in their listening rooms. The Magnepan MMG speakers, at $550 a pair, are an extraordinary value and their superb performance is matched by very few loudspeakers anywhere near this price -- taking care of two of the three ingredients in finding a good speaker in one swoop. That leaves personal preference, of course. The good news here is that these Magneplanar speakers (more on Magneplanar technology in a moment) will give almost everyone what they want from loudspeakers. If you've read other reviews of the MMGs, you've probably noted that the one criticism consistently leveled at them is they're a bit thin at the low end of the musical spectrum; bass doesn't boom from a pair of these speakers. But that can be remedied easily and fairly cheaply (more on this later too). |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2237 Registered: Dec-03 | Testing the "weakness" The Magnepan weakness is supposed to be their inability to reproduce deep bass; if they do have a weakness, here's where it lies. However, when I cranked up John Fogerty's "Southern Streamline" from his Blue Moon Swamp [Warner Bros. 9 45426-2] I got all the sharp, tight bottom end I needed and wanted. Magnepan MMG Loudspeakers But when I dug into the deep, dark recesses of my music collection, I found an ugly test: Motorhead's 1982 metal opus, Iron Fist [Dojo 3034-2]. The relentless bombast and guitar-hammering of Eddie Clark on every single song on the album proved to be a bit much too much for the Maggies. So I hooked up my Hsu Research VTF-2 powered sub, which filled in the bottom of the archetypal speed metal quite ably. (The Hsu subwoofer goes for $499.) If you're one of those folks who enjoy a little bombast, or maybe just bass-heavy rock'n'roll, you'll likely need a sub to accompany the MMGs. The same might hold true for those who enjoy Wagner or Beethoven -- the lows of their music might go beneath the capabilities of these speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2238 Registered: Dec-03 | I might actually order a pair of the Magnepan MMG W's at 88db sens and the fact they go down to only 100 hz might work pretty well with my tube and bass/sub setup I have going at the moment! At $300 for the pair it's very tempting! I will give this big consideration! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 89 Registered: Jan-05 | Hey Kegger, good to hear from you! I didn't realize you liked the planar speakers too. I've got to hit the road in a few minutes but here are some initial thoughts. Between last night and this morning, I have about 12 hours of listening on them already! I can't stop. In fact, my trip today was supposed to be an overnighter but I'm coming home tonight so I'll have time to listen to them tomorrow. Anyway,here's a few observations. They don't seem to take any more power than the Spendors but do need more juice than the B&W's. With the B&W's I usually listened with the volume at 10 or 11 on the Mac. With the Spendors, I had to put it a 11 or 12. The Maggies are ok at 10 but really sing at 11 and watch out at 12! lol For the type of music I like, jazz, samba, pop, acoustic and classical, these speakers are superb. Magnificent Maggies! They have an e x p a n s i v e soundstage and an openness I have never heard - not even in the B&W's, which I feel is a strong point of those speakers. The vocal, piano and acoustic instrument presentation is as natural as anything I've heard. So natural, it reminds me of the times in my carefree days of youth when I frequently experienced live music. Don't let anyone tell you these things can't rock! Listening to the Screaming Trees CD, they were punchy (for instance, it sounds like the drummer uses a double kick drum which I hadn't really noticed before) and very solid in the bass region. So far, I haven't listened to them with the sub yet because the sub is emitting a hum when I turn it on. There must be a loose connection somewhere. Will check that out tomorrow and give it a run with the sub. The only thing I found that the Spendors do better is the bass line in Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer". The Spendor is very fast and tight with that bass line. But, if you'll recall, I hated the Spendors "small" presentation of the drums in Also Sprach (aka theme to 2001). On the Maggies, the spatial qualities of Also Sprach are present and the drums are given their due depth. This morning, listening (and watching) to Rattle/Mahler 5th, I noticed one quiet passage where a large string instrument was playing and I didn't hear the notes. Possibly, this was a double-bass? And, I believe it was a concern of Asimo and Larry that I miss those notes with the Spendors. That seems to be the case with the Maggies too. But, everything I did hear was simply sweet! The cellos were lovely, the horns were detailed but smooth. Zero harshness. And, did I mention Patsy was able to break free from the box? lol Overall, I'm in love. Something I never felt with the Spendors. With those, I liked them but had moments of doubt with them and never loved them (sorry, Rick.) The effect is very similar to my first experience with the Mac. Any future upgrades in the system will focus on getting the Mapleshade cables and, possibly, looking at replacing the Denon DVD2200. But, none of that can occur until I sell the Monitor Audio and Spendor speakers taking up space in my house. lol. |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 90 Registered: Jan-05 | One other point...a frequent comment is that the Maggies are hard to place and have a small sweet spot. Fallacies. Maybe in a huge room but not in my space. The MMG's are so light weight I had no trouble testing them in different spots and had no trouble getting a great response from them. The sweet spot is pretty much anywhere I sit or stand in my living room unless I stand directly to the side of them. I don't mean if I move to the side of my listening area - I mean if I literally stand to the side of the physical speakers. That's the only place the sound weird. I have them approximately 3 feet from the wall behind them and 2 feet from the side walls. When I'm finished listening to them, I can easily place them against the wall out of the way. |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 91 Registered: Jan-05 | Kegger, At first, I considered the MMG W but decided to go with the larger MMG since they are a fuller range and had similar specs to the Spendors and B&W's. I figured this would give me a better comparison point with those speakers. I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am with the speakers. And at a price of $550 usd? Ridiculous! :-) |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2239 Registered: Dec-03 | SimplyMcIntosh Great stuff! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 682 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - Well, congrats to you! I once had a yearning for some Maggies - the larger ones, though - and Mer announced that 55-inch-high speakers were not going to cut it in our house. OK-sigh. I sure do love to read when people find sound that makes them tingle! You obviously have done so with the MMGs - and after reading your frustration with the Spendors, this is a breath of fresh air! As I posted earlier - the Yamaha is on its way to California. I should have known better than to buy the first production run of any new stereo product. Live and learn. . . now, I'm hoping that whatever is wrong has been corrected in later production runs - and that they send me a newer unit. sigh. The B & Ws seem to have passed the critical mark in their break-in - Mer says they are sounding fuller and less strident - and I have to agree. Much better - and very nice when paired with the new sub. I've done a ton of testing - and have decided on an 80Hz crossover point, rather than my previous 100Hz. Was using the sub's set-up CD - but without a player, obviously, the testing has come to a halt. The 80Hz seems "right" to me - though I'll still try a 50Hz crossover when I get another player. My friend is making a good recovery - seems that something in the anasthesia may have been the culprit - and I'm sure that lawyers will now enter the picture. Meanwhile, it was good to talk to him again today. A close call. . . I've decided that gremlins have taken up refuge in my listening room. This morning, when I tried to set up the TV set to play through the NAD, I discovered that the left channel output from the TV has gone dead. Sigh. Worked just weeks ago, the last time I tried to hook it up. So wat's goin' on heah, chaps? JAN - Jan - oh, Jan! Could you please extend yourself a bit - you know, another one of dem nekked moon-dances and sech? Suah wood hep-a-fella out heah! Would do it myself, but all-white-chickens in the moonlight are too good a target for all the Rednecks hereabout!!! (grin) Mer, meanwhile, is suggesting a wind-up Victrola. Hmmm. . .maybe she's right. More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2843 Registered: Dec-03 | SimplyMacintosh, It is great to read about your Magnepan MMG speakers. I have read only strong recommendations of those, here, and yours is the best. I recall they are four Ohm speakers and this sorts out a lot of otherwise OK amplifiers as unsuitable. NAD is then still OK, but if you are already in McIntosh country you do not need to concern yourself with that, I guess! It inclines me to think I should also get the speakers before the tube amp. BTW Magnepans are fairly exotic and expensive outside the US and possibly Canada. As with other equipment, I suppose that with such a home market and "brand image" there is not a great incentive to export. |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 92 Registered: Jan-05 | Larry, The MMG model are only 48 inches high (14 inches wide and 1" thick) so maybe Mer would consider that. You have a choice of coverings and finishes. I got the black cloth with black oak wood trim...but, you could do a white or black cloth with a natural oak trim. There's not much to lose since they have a 60 day money back guarantee. The NAD should have more than enough power to drive them at 4 ohms. You could bring them in house, compare them side-by-side with the B&W's and make a decision on which you like best. You could sell the B&W's for say, $1000, pay for the MMG's and have $450 left over to take Mer on a nice weekend trip. Or, put the money in the savings for a fall trip to London. Hmmm... I came across a very funny post in a review someone wrote about their experience with the larger Maggies (1.6 model) and the WAF. He wrote: "First off, they are quite large; I mean really quite large. When you take them home and set them up for the first time the masculine side of you gets the Tool-Time-Tim Harrumph! feeling, but the feminine side starts glancing around nervously for your spouse... They are simply physically imposing, (this apprehension melts away rather quickly once you actually hear them, but the initial view is rather stunning). As much as you want to pop in your all-time favorite CD, I strongly suggest that you start by playing your significant others' most treasured recording..." lol |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 93 Registered: Jan-05 | More WAF humor regarding Maggie 1.6: This brings me to another point, the ubiquitous Wife Approval Factor (WAF). Let me preface my comments with a complement to my wife. She is understanding, supportive, and the light of my life. However, when I set up the speakers at our little love nest, I thought she was going to hyperventilate. That was before she started crying. I have learned that for women there are 4 phases they go through when you bring these monoliths home- 1) Anger 2) Denial 3) Grief, and 4) Acceptance. We are now in the acceptance phase judging by the fact that she now comes out of the bedroom most days. |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 94 Registered: Jan-05 | I must be a very strange woman to actually want these in my home..... |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 877 Registered: Dec-03 | MC, As the former owner of a pair of 1.6's, you are definitely in the minority. I am pleased you finally found a pair of speakers that do it for you. The Maggie sound is very seductive. Nothing to be sorry about regarding the Spendors. I suggested you give the S3/5's a go. You went with a model I have no first hand experience with. Sorry they didn't work out. Just proves bigger isn't always better. Enjoy the Maggies, and they to will sound better with time. Play with placement, and think about as I once did, of possibly suspending them from the ceiling...... Cheers! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 95 Registered: Jan-05 | JohnA, Thanks. They are definitely 4 ohm speakers. Surprisingly, they didn't seem to need as much juice from the Mac as the Spendor speakers. Maybe there was more going on in the box with the 4ohm vs the 8ohm that wasn't readily apparent to me. In my research, there were several reviews in which McIntosh amps were used. In one of those reviews, the reviewer tried several amps but didn't reach nirvana with the MMG's until he tried an old Mac. The MMG's are only sold factory-direct. They are priced to introduce listeners to the Magneplanar technology with hopes of getting them hooked so they'll go to a dealer and upgrade to a more expensive model. But, I've seen opinions expressed that the MMG is so good that the next 2 models, don't give enough of an improvement to justify the 2-3 times higher cost. Some are of the opinion that you should upgrade only if you can afford to go to the 3.6 or 20.1 model. If I go to Spoleto in Charleston this year, I'll stop by the Magnepan dealer for a listen to hear the other models. In this story, about a tour of the Magnepan facility, the writer states the lobby of the facility had a pair of MMG's on display connected to NAD electronics. Lar? JohnA, which speakers are you considering? I remember you mentioned this before but, regrettably, I have forgotten. Who knows, with the strength of the Euro, you could make arrangements with one of your American friends to ship a pair to you for a relatively inexpensive try out and then sell them as "exotic" speakers if you don't like them. :-) |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 96 Registered: Jan-05 | Good morning, Rick! We crossed posts. Yes, I wonder if the S3/5 might have been better suited. But, I wanted to go with floor standers due to the precarious location in my living room for speakers on stands. You may recall, I knocked one of the MA's off a stand a while back and damaged the corners. Anyway, the reviews for the 5e were so good I decided to give it a try. It just wasn't my cup of tea as the saying goes. As for hanging the Maggies from the ceiling....my own WAF may wake up at that suggestion! lol! It's not something I would rule out completely but I'd have to find aesthetically pleasing hardware and a good location to do it. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 878 Registered: Dec-03 | MC, I just had a thought. Hanging them may also solve a potential cat problem. They DO like like giant scratching posts. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1450 Registered: Aug-04 | SM You should be able to unpack a carton of speakers and hook 'em up faster than you can say, "Ghia Cabriolet!" Congrats on the maggies - I've noted they've been very well regarded on this forum. Rick has a point - it might pay to sprinkle pepper into the maggies fabric - better to bless a cat than wring its neck. LOL! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 97 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL! Yes, the cats are definitely a concern in the back of my mind. Pepper keeps them way? Is this just standard black pepper or some of Larry's fancy gourmet pepper? lol. Fortunately, none of the cats have shown the slightest interest in the Maggies, not even the one who hasn't been declawed. Having speakers on stands as I did before was a big concern for me because I thought the cats might be tempted to jump on them. Of course, as it turns out, I'm the only one who ever knocked the speakers off. The fact the cats haven't shown any interest in them is encouraging....but I'm afraid hanging the maggies might provide temptation for them tho'. They are very good at psyching me out like that. lol MR, if you ever hear of any competition involving unpacking and setting up speakers, please let me know. I might have a shot at winning it.  At work, we have a email forum for selling stuff. One of my listings of the home and car audio equipment I'm selling prompted someone to ask if I drive a white van. LOL!! My house looks a little like a dealer show room with Spendors, Monitor Audio, B&W, Maggies and Energy speakers lying around. However, I found buyers for the MA's and I've got someone showing serious interest in the Spendors. Hopefully, all of the extra speakers will be sold and shipped this week. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 683 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - well, just congrats all 'round here! I'm very happy that your "old" speakers have been or soon will be sold! Nothing like "cleaning house" to make one feel much better. . . I read the Maggie plant tour story - and got an itch where I shouldn't have one - my wallet. Hmmm. . .nope, the speakers I now have are the ones I will have next year, and next year, and next year!. . . Very hard sitting here with no way to play my CDs or DVDs! Going through a disc-withdrawal that is not a bit pleasant! Just hoping that Yamaha sends me back a new player that does not have the same problems! I've read several comments from consumers on audio forums who have mirrored my complaints about the 5770 - or 1500, same unit, different face-color. However, I read many complaints by people who have the Denon players, as well - so I guess I shouldn't feel to isolated in my unhappiness. Jan V. - don't know what happened. All of a sudden my "whole house" antenna let me down! The FM started sizzling and buzzing - and at first I was afraid it was the NAD. Wasn't - it was the darned antenna. Sooooo - I hastily rigged up a connector to the 75ohm input, and just ran a 20-gauge wire along the baseboard and up and over a nearby door. Problem solved pretty well, although there is still a hint of noise. that should stop when our local NPR station finishes upgrading its transmitter - it got damaged in the hurricanes last summer, and operates on about 3/4-power at the moment. Went to Rad-Shack today and took Jan's advice from a long, long time ago - got some ProGold contact cleaner and - since my stereo is all disconnected anyway - cleaned the connectors. Didn't get a lot of stuff off - but felt better afterwards, anyway! All the connectors are gold-plated, so I don't worry much about corrosion, but am always concerned about any foreign matter that might get into the thangs. I'd been using the silver glop that I've told y'all about - but gave it up. Didn't really seem to make that much difference, and I was fearful of shorting out any connector. The darned stuff could easily do that - so, goodbye silver glop, hello ProGold. Makes my mind more at ease, anyway, Jan! Any reports of CD-cleaning using my latest product are welcome from Jan and SM - I've determined that it works best if you do it twice, not just once, to each CD. But just the cream, not the spray - save that for a final "dose." Mer says she wants to watch the Academy Awards so she can study the dress designs. Yawn. Gonna be a lloonnnggggg night, gang! More anon. . . |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 98 Registered: Jan-05 | I think I may have identified a potential problem with the Maggies......they may not allow me to ever leave my house again. Larry, Good luck with the Yamaha. I hope you have better luck with the replacement. My Denon 2200 is pretty reliable. I've had a couple of DVD-A's that wouldn't play on them but replacing them with new copies solved the problem. The only thing that bugs me about the Denon is it occasionally vibrates when playing some discs. Even with the vibration, the disc will play just fine but it still bugs me when it happens. Now, about that wallet itch. Maybe you should scratch it....the experience I've had is one I can't help but try to share. With a 60 day money back guarantee....You'd only be out of 20 or 30 dollars in shipping if you decide to return them. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 684 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - scratch, scratch - hmmm. . .-Mer read the postings, and had a few choice words about exchanging any more stereo stuff. Yep. Don't want to try to repeat them. Sigh. Good luck with the Maggies - and I'm sure you deserve finally reaching stereo Nirvana! I'm still on the way - but gaining - I think! (grin) Still trying to reproduce that wonderful "live" sound - but, of course, can't doo itt. Nope. More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2846 Registered: Dec-03 | SM, "JohnA, which speakers are you considering?" Quad ESL63. Refurbished by the manufacturer, with warranty. The nearest current model is the Quad 988. I have made only veiled references. The decision concerns priorities and such questions as "why I am doing this in the first place?", difficult to articulate. Also a strange feeling of "now or never". I'll let you know if and when I get them. One poster here, on another thread, said Magnepans are better, but I have strong doubts about that. So does Jan, if I recall correctly. I think we have discussed the WAF issue before. You do seem like a young audiophile's dream, if I may say so. A sort of Lara Croft for the insecure hifi buff, rather than the player of computer games. Like the quote. Have no idea what is the "Tool-Time-Tim Harrumph!" feeling. Must be a reference to something beyond my ken. BTW I found out why "f_g" is disallowed, from seeing a bit of South Park. It was a longer word when I was in US, in UK meaning "bundle of sticks", fairly innocuous, also a sort of large meatball. US visitors to UK used to fall about seeing large advertisements for "Birds-Eye spicey f_ggots". BTW we do not have the Euro, here. Nor do they in Sweden; nor Denmark. Here, in contrast to those two, there has been no referendum, nor is there likely to be, unless it is rolled into a package with the EU constitution. George W. was interpreted as giving a vague blessing to these ideas, but I think he was just trying to be nice to his hosts. This is miles off-topic. Anyway, your point still applies. The £ seems to be in good shape. Maggies should be affordable, but aren't. And there is no direct sale outside US and Canada. I looked these things up some time ago after all the rave reviews. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 45 B.C.: Julius Caesar adjusts 46 B.C.--known as the Year of Confusion with its 445 days--by fixing 365 days and six hours as the length of a year, with one day intercalated every four years, a leap. (Larry, did you cover this story?) 1574: First New World victims of Spanish Inquisition burned at the stake. 1941: Birth of Alice Brock. Her restaurant was immortalized by Arlo Guthrie. 1979: Death of Mr. Ed. His last words: "Wiil-l-l-l-l-bu-r-r-r-rr. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2243 Registered: Dec-03 | Imaging and what to do that will improve or maybe better yet not hinder it? Mainly I'm talking about locking in the center image for the voice/singing. Yes I believe we all know about towing in the speakers, but how much and not all manufacturers actually suggest towing them in. So what other things should one do? What should we avoid? Any kind of testing that should and could be done? Is there other speaker placements one should try? Are there rules as say all these should be tried for best results? Is there things that help a center image but other things to do for a more spacial image? What can be done to cabling and electronics? What about the room? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2244 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes I am refering to the 2 channel setup and not surround! As of right now I'm concerned with 2 channel. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 685 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan - sigh - no, sad to say that I'd been sent out into the far colonies to do an in-depth clay-tablet report on a major chariot race. The Nubian slaves had done their jobs well, and the spectacle was a huge success. But because of the confusion, my story was filed three days late, and I was scourged. Sigh. But then, I was very young. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 480 Registered: Feb-04 | Kegger, Jan posted some great links to speaker placement in this thread, around the time SMc got her Spendors. The Audio Physic link is of special interest (not only because I have AP speakers). I've read this placement method really helped improve the soundstage for other brands of speakers. John A., I haven't heard the Quads, but read a lot about them. It seems they may be the perfect speakers for certain people and completely wrong for others. Have you auditioned them to find out which group you belong to? (Quote Grin unquote) I assume you have since you seem so strongly inclined to get them. As far as whether Quads are better than Magnepans, I think that may be a matter of taste. I know some people who absolutely love the sound of Maggies. Personally I found the 1.6 and the MMG very likable, but they didn't have the special quality which made me think I had to have them. What this tells me is that audio is ultimately subjective, that speakers make the biggest difference (aside from the source material) in how the system sounds, and that it's important to find speakers you love and then build a system around them. As you know, I recently introduced a new tube amp to my system. The change in sound isn't as dramatic as when I changed speakers. The Audio Physic Virgos were/are a revelation. If you get that feeling from the Quads, I thoroughly recommend getting them. The Primaluna P2 has been breaking in for the past 48 hours. I'll provide a full report in Rick's Tube Talk thread after 100 hours of burn-in and some critical listening. But I can share some initial thoughts. The P2 is surprisingly neutral. It doesn't sound overly warm in tone or provide euphonic coloration. Combined with the Virgos, I feel as if I'm getting a true sense of the source material. Does the system make the music sound more live? Only if the source material sounds live. Another way of saying it is, I don't think my audio system gets me closer to the musical event; I think it gets me closer to the master tape. Final thought: I was listening to a decades old Springsteen cd, which was a favorite of mine in my youth. Listening to it last night, I thought the recording quality was horrible. Then I thought about listening to it years ago when I didn't give a sh*t about the recording quality and how much I enjoyed it back then and wondered if this was progress... |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 99 Registered: Jan-05 | JohnA, There's a nice pair of Quad's on Audiogon right now for $1200usd. I looked into both the models but they were beyond what I wanted to pay (especially the 988) at this time. I really didn't want to get yet another pair of speakers but was willing to try out the MMG's due to the low price and the 60-day return guarantee. Plus, they were spec'd similar to the Spendor so I thought it would be a good comparison point and would help me increase my speaker vocabulary (isn't that how Jan phrased it?) The dollar is weak against everything right now. Forgive my faux pas on the Euro...I remember now that I used English currency on my last trip to London - I believe I used the Euro while in Ireland. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 687 Registered: Oct-04 | Kuddn't believe it - but my right channel on the computer audio board crapped out today. Sigh. Without sound, I am nothing. I thought it was in the computer - but when I did some testing, I found it was in the Cambridge Soundworks bass module. It's a box with subwoofer and controls/amp for all channels. Soooooooo - I took my trusty hammer and chisels and cut away the glued-together case. Went in and found the leads to the right speaker. AHA! A cold solder joint - what I'd feared. So - out came the soldering gun and resin and solder and with a SPLURSCH and a whiff of flux in the air, the joint was, uh, well, "joined" again. Sigh. Ahhhhh. All is beddar now. The sound cometh forth with vigor, etc. etc. On to dinner. Since I can't have my sailboat anymore, well, I depend on sound for sanity. Such as it is. Need I say more? Have a great eve, all. . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Kegger - Nine questions in one post. Yeah, we can whip through those answers in just a few lines. In one sense, the most important component to imaging will amount to the capability of the system. Some systems just do a better job at the various aspects of imaging and sounstaging than other systems. Some have more depth, some more width and some more exacting placement of performers within a smaller stage. As you begin to get interested in the imaging capability of your system, you begin to get more concrete ideas on what you're looking for as you choose components. In the end, it amounts to the synergy of your system. If you have a source player that is somewhat forward and an amplifier that is more laid back, the basic components are going to be fighting each other. The idea I promoted with my clients was to get more focused on how each piece works with the other pieces in your system to reinforce the results you want to achieve. After a while it becomes either easier or more frustrating to get the perfect match that does everything you wish for in imaging, soundstaging, tonality, dynamics, transparency, etc. Read the links on speaker placement, they'll get you started. Of course, one suggests placing your speakers on the long wall while another suggests the short wall. You have to decide what your room and your sepakers will prefer. With the Spicas, I sit slightly away from the speakers to let the drivers meld together. With the LS3/5a's, I sit closer since they were meant to be a near field monitor. As you point out, some speakers prefer to have a bit of toe-in, while others do not. That usually amounts to how a speaker works into the room. A wide dispersion speaker will often have too much energy in early reflections to have good imaging. Placing it straight ahead puts the first reflection closer to the speaker itself and farther away from the listener. A speaker with narrow dispersion may require toe-in to give a tight sweet spot. There are too many possibilities and combinations to make sweeping statements about speaker placement. In general, I find it easier to look at a given combination of speaker and room and work from there. After awhile, you begin to get an idea of what will work better in a given situation. But, the best results are simply in trying a few locations and set ups. Here's the basic instructions I gave my clients to try before I came in to do the final tweaking. More than short wall/long wall decisions, I suggested the most important concern was symmetry. Place the speakers in the location where they will see the most similar dimensions and surroundings in a room. For the best overall response, the speakers will want two intersecting walls of equal length not interrupted by a door, window, archway or large piece of furniture on one side only. The more space you can give behind the speakers, in general, the better. The normal suggestion is to start with the speakers placed 1/3 out into the room. I have my Spicas set up with a double pocket door behind them. They see two equal (damped) corners with a large open space behind and between the speakers. This generally results in a deeper soundstage. In this set up the Spicas can place a drum set about 6-10' behind the plane of the speakers in what is actually the next room behind the speakers. Big symphonic stages and electronic effects can reach even further back. Set up like this the Spicas can reach farther back than the LS3/5a's (which are in a different room), but they don't push the side walls out of the way. The lateral staging on the Spicas is (generally) no more than a few feet beyond the outer edge of the speakers. The farther away from side walls the better for the width of the stage. The 3/5a's are set up with lots of room on the sides and they can place back up vocals 4-6' outside the edge of the speaker and 4-8' or more behind the speaker. In general they make a wider, but slightly more shallow sweep across the rear of the stage than the Spicas. When discussing symmetry, it is important to remember all dimensions relating to the speaker to side wall and the speaker to back wall dimensions should not be similar. If the speakers are 4' from the back wall, they should not be 4' from the side wall. Either 3' or 5' is a better option for the side wall dimension. Also your listening position should not have a similar dimension to either of those two dimensions. If the speakers are 4' into the room, your chair should not be 4' into the room. Your listening position should be given the same consideration as the speaker position. Place your chair away from side and back walls and maintain as much symmetry as possible. After you've decided where you can place the speakers in the room, start with an equilateral triangle between the two speakers and your listening position. Normally begin adjusting the speakers for tonal balance. This is the toward the wall for more bass and away from the wall for more transparency type movement. Move your chair around also. If you think the speakers can give you the tonal balance you desire from this location you can proceed to set the speakers up for imaging and staging. Leave your chair in the best spot but move the speakers to about 4' apart. Use a stereo FM station with a single announcer's voice to judge the center fill. If the speakers will benefit from a slight tilt forward or back, this is the time to begin experimenting with how much will be required. As you adjust tilt you are doing much the same as with toe-in. By placing the on axis response of the tweeter higher or lower than your ears, you are changing percieved frequency response slightly and you are often changing the distortion components you will hear. How much change you hear depends on the driver in the cabinet. Play a few musical selections to determine the tilt of the speakers. When you are satisfied with the results, you can move the speakers out about a foot at a time as you listen to the changes with the FM station. Place the speakers facing flat out with no toe-in. If you have someone else who can stand between the speakers, listen to their voice in the room and try to get the same response. It's not always possible since most stations and recordings will process the voices to some extent. Mostly the smaller the apparent source of a speaking voice, the better the imaging. If you have room problems with a speaking voice, make note of them to address later. Eventually you will hear the center image start to fall apart as you move the speakers away from each other. Start moving the speakers back toward the center until you find that ideal spot. Try some toe-in to tighten the center image. When you cannot see either side of either speaker cabinet from your chair, the speaker is aimed with you (essentially) on axis to the tweeter. As you work with toe-in, use the sides of the speaker's cabinet to keep the changes symmetrical. The amount of the speaker's inner cabinet face you see on the right speaker should be the same as what you see on the left speaker. After the client had the speakers to that point, I would come in with a tape measure, a small flashlight (and a laser pointer if possible), a roll of mylar, a roll of masking tape and some damping materials for the room. The first step was to get the speakers set exactly the same side to side. The dimensions from the walls were set and then the dimensions from the chair. Each corner of the speaker was measured so the outer rear corner was the same dimension from the rear and side wall and then the inner rear corner was measured. The chair was measured from the center front of the speaker to the chair. Depending on the speaker, system and client's taste this would typically get down to 1/8" tolerances. (Rooms are not always equal dimensions even when they appear to be similar. The exactness of your measurements will be the determinig factor in the end results.) Double check with FM and music to set the position for imaging and staging. If satisfied this is where you want the speakers, move on to tweaking the position. Mark the speaker's corners with masking tape and begin moving the speaker slightly within the general area. The flashlight sits on top of the speaker and the client sits in the chair. Tilt is adjusted until the client sees the brightest light from the flashlight. Wedges or spikes are set and then adjusted for the best response from there. Each change is measured for symmetry. Measure each front corner to the listening chair. A laser pointer on top of the speaker can be used to set a spot on the rear wall which is marked with a strip of masking tape. Adjust the speakers up and back until the sound is what you want. Work on toe-in the same way. Once tilt is set, place a strip of tape on the back wall and use the light of the pointer to set toe-in while marking each change on the tape and then listening. Some speakers and listeners will prefer a speaker that crosses slightly in front of the chair, some exactly at their ears and some slightly behind the chair. Some speakers will work best with no toe-in. You are balancing center image against stage width and depth. Tonal balance will be affected also. Mark the position with tape. Move the speakers in to the center slightly and out to the sides slightly to check for best position. Use the laser pointer or tape measure to keep consistent dimensions. Run a piece of tape on the back wall or between the speakers that is marked in one inch increments. Always maintain symmetry. If the speakers have not moved enough to affect tonal balance this should set the speakers final position. Use the tape measure to tweak any final changes keeping dimensions to the smallest tolerance you desire. With the client in the listening chair, place the flashlight on the top of the speaker and pointing toward the center axis of the tweeter. Run a strip of reflective mylar along the side wall at the height of the tweeter/listener's ears. Where the listener sees the reflection of the flashlight is the first reflection from the tweeter. This is often the best place to begin damping room reflections. Mark the spot with tape and swing the flashlight to point at this spot. With mylar on the other side wall you will see the second reflection point. Mark that with tape. Place the mylar on the back wall and swing the flashlight back to point at the tweeter's axis. Stand behind the speaker and you will see the reflection point at the back wall. Mark it with tape. If you used a laser pointer to set up the speakers, this spot has already been determined. The mylar can be used to determine reflections from the floor and ceiling if needed. Damp these reflections as needed to tame room sound. If the wall behind the speakers is solid, a few damping traps placed behind and between the speakers will usually help staging. Traps behind the chair will increase articulation. Corners are the most likely place to begin with room damping for bass response. Floor to wall junction traps are typical, ceiling to wall junctions are often overlooked. One or two traps on either side of each speaker and close to the cabinet edge will often benefit staging, imaging and articulation. Absorbent baffles that fit snugly around the speaker at the front edge of the cabinet will have the same benefit as an infinite baffle above the midrange frequencies. A baffle about 3' wider than the speaker in all dimensions will usually make the speakers more transparent and can benefit imaging. A trap placed between the speaker when used with these baffles will benefit image tightness. Full traps are used in these locations along with full traps for the corners. Depending on the speakers, half round traps placed along the ceiling between the speakers and chair will tame room reflections that are often overlooked. Half round traps can be used along the walls. Diffusion or dispersion panels can be used instead of absorbent panels. These same reflections are coming from the floor. How much you add to a room in damping material is a matter of choice and speakers. Horns typically have very limited vertical dispersion; yet many ribbons have limited horizontal dispersion. The suggestions are for a conventional box speaker and panels and dipole/bipole speakers may work better with other options. There are too many variables to get more specific. The most important factor is maintaining the similarity of space and dimensions. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 688 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V. - all this information about traps and panels and damping is very interesting - and I certainly could use some of that - but I've never seen any kind of trap or panel that didn't look horrible and stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. Certainly not in any radio/TV station I ever worked at - and certainly not in any home that I remember. My doc-friend's "big room" has all sorts of sound conditioning - mainly thick carpet, non-parallel walls, and a back wall of some sort of acoustic foam squares interspersed with oak panels set on angles. In this case, it's rather striking. In my case, adding any such "tweaks" to our living room would surely ruin any hopes I might have for WAF in any positive way! (grin) Kegger is luck in two respects: he doesn't have to worry about WAF, and he has a dedicated listening room with which to twiddle and tweak to his heart's content. Go, Kegman!!!!!! Your suggestions are all solid, Jan - just not visually practical for the "average" stereo setup, in my verry humble opinion. Maybe you could do all audiophiles a big favor and develop some foam wall stick-on sound panels that look like fine art - or whatever? Mer works in a very large sculpting studio at the Art League where she teaches. They brought in an acoustic engineer to help with the noise problem, and he, in turn, brought in some typical foam panels that he glued to the walls at various locations. About 2x4-feet, they are dark brown and have thick V-shapes the points of which stick out into the room. Actually, I kinda like them, but when I asked Mer if she'd put up with some in our living room, well, I'm sure you know the answer to that! But there are about a dozen of them left over, and just sitting in a corner, gathering dust. . . hmmm. . . . . BTW - Mer loves the new subwoof woofer - and it has "settled down" after some early boominess. I've got it line input, with receiver crossover set at 80Hz. This week, I'll try the 50Hz level, as so many of you have suggested. Interesting that both the Mordaunt-Short folk and the B&W chaps have sent along neat-oh set-up CDs. The B&W one has a short movie on speaker placement and sound, along with test tones and speaker phase tests. Class acts, those B&W chaps! Now, if I only had a CD player!! Sigh. . . More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2246 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan thnks for the info, now I just need to soak it in. Again thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 879 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Thank you for yet another super post. Great info. As you may have heard, the Barnes clan is planning a move to Florida this year. The one concession I asked for and was given by my lovely bride, was a dedicated listening room (audio). Would you consider at some point in time, flying to Florida, for some consulting work on this project? It has always been my dream to have a dedicated room, and I want it done right. Can I afford your services? LOL! Will you consider the proposal? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2847 Registered: Dec-03 | SimplyMcIntosh and Two Cents, Many thanks for direct responses. I look forward to more on the PrimaLuna P2, 2C. No worries about the Euro, Ghia, and thanks for the link. I am at work and will post back at greater length, but later. I have "pulled the trigger" and with luck the thing will fire i.e. delivery sometime on Thursday - direct from factory refurb. Will post details later. Beyond specs and auditioning, my decision is not entirely rational. I fell in love with the sound of these speakers over twenty years ago. If they do not live up to expectations then I shall change my expectations. But from all I read they have strengths exactly where I value strengths. I may need to adjust the room to get full benefit. And yes, I may need to look at my current sources and amp (2c; I have forgotten if you have a turntable....!). Will report back. Not much before then. Sorry to interrupt any responses to another golden essay from Jan, also the exchanges of Kegger and Rick. All the best. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2247 Registered: Dec-03 | Your good John, post at will! We all want to know what is going on! |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 481 Registered: Feb-04 | John A., I hope the speakers turn out to be everything you hope for and then more! I do have turntable, one of the original Music Halls, that will be replaced next. The P2 is opening up nicely and showing that tube-like warmth and liquidity. I'm surprised by how powerful the amp is given the 40wpc rating. That's one thing I'm sure you'll consider when choosing a tube amp for your quads. No 8wpc amps for those babies. I look forward to hearing about your ESL-63s. I may be in the minority but I love how they look. They've got that mid-century coolness in spades. Larry, Why don't you go to the local Best Buy, get a cd player, and return it after you get the Yamaha player back? BB has a very liberal return policy (I think it's 30 days). It's worth it to be able to listen to music. Just a thought. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 689 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - congrats on your speaker-spending! I hope that your sound-memory is good, and that the speakers live up to it - as I'm sure they will. Two Cents - this is one time - maybe the ONLY time when I'm one step ahead of you. Brought home a liddle Samsung 941 - and soon will be putting it through paces. U R right about the return policy, as I have used that before. By tonight, we'll see what plays - and doesn't! (grin) SM - are you there? Or are you still deep under the Maggie-spell? Yoo-hoo! SM! (well, guess she's still in the speaker-trance) Now, if she could only find romance as great as the speakers! All of us wish her well. . . Well, my recording engineer-friend is in a pickle. The high-priced speaker cables that he "sent" to me have disappeared. I don't have them. He doesn't have them. And the poor dumb mope sent them reg-lar mail without insurance or anything. Gee - hope he makes better records than he does an equipment-shipper! (grin) And yes, he'll probably read this - but I've already told it all to his face, and he laughed. With his money, I guess he can afford the loss, but now - I wonder who has them???? Jan V. - I'm thinking that your esteemed ProGold stuff really works. But probably just my feeble mind. I like the pen best - easy, quick and if the sound ain't better, at least the connectors slip together nice and easy! The silver glop scared me because it was messy, and had the possibility of shorting out connectors. Even when using a minute amount. ProGold gets my vote. More anon. . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | As to the room treatment and speaker placement suggestions; I refuse to listen to anyone who does not want the very best acoustics money can purchase. If you prefer crap for sound because your room may not meet your significant other's tastes and values - get another S.O.! Now that isn't what I thought I said in that post. I thought said that what you did and how much you did was your choice. I don't know whether the acoustician the studio employed was given full rein in making the space look like it had been treated for bad sound. Many industrial applications are not too concerned about the look as long as they get the results. In most home situations it becomes a matter of taste. In a home filled with French antiques a Morris Chair would look as out of place as a panel of Sonex. Never mind the Morris Chair could be worth more than some of the French antiques. It is personal preference as to what looks good and what is charm challenged. Obviously the answer is to make the treatment as unobtrusive as possible while achieving the desired results. In anything other than a dedicated listening room, there is generally a compromise between appearance and sound. Just as obviously most rooms of this sort are not going to be dominated by 6' tall, 250lb. speakers. Some rooms and some client's tastes are more difficult than others. Go figure. Sonex can be placed behind a fabric panel that allows air pressure to pass through instead of being reflected off the surface of the material. (The idea of grill cloth.) By placing the panel a few inches from the wall the benefit of the Sonex is greatly enhanced. Most acoustic treatments are contemporary, even industrial, in their appearance and merely require a bit of knowledge and a reasonable amount of creativity in adapting to a room. Rick - I'd be glad to help but most of the knowledge of acoustic treatment can be transferred over the internet. Since the final result is always a matter of preference, the final tuning is often done by the owner with guidance from someone else. Moving a trap 6-12" can be the difference between damping the reflection and missing it entirely. There are some simple rules, but most of what I would do to the room after speaker placement was listening and moving traps and treatments until the sound arrived at a point where the customer was happy. I simply had general ideas that came from working with the same speakers and treatments in many rooms. Unless the client was just not up to the tedious task of moving, measuring and listening, most of what I did was more for show than something mysterious. The clients spent their money with me and deserved a good dog and pony act. That they got better sound was something I could, and often did, just explain and let them work with on their own. Some people like the experience and others don't. Some people like to buy their equipment already broken in and some want to hear that process. Go figure! http://www.illbruck-sonex.com/articles_anisoundacoustics.html |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 690 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V. - gee whiz, in reading and re-reading your first paragraph - well, nobody that I know accused you of saying any sech thing. I'm confused, but that's normal. Got the Samsung hooked up and playing. Only CDs so far - will attempt a DVD tonight. The unit is very lightweight and thin - and I guess it would be called "attractive." Almost disappears. As to sound quality - well, so far, it seems to be fine - can't say it's better or worse than the Yamaha - but at least it's playing all the CDs I insert without buzzing, grinding or whizzing! That's a good start. Heck - at least I've got tunes. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1451 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan, Great post re: room treatments and speaker placement. Sometimes I wish I had a dedicated listening room though I'm fortunate I have a dedicated wife who puts up with my whims. But then this: "Unless the client was just not up to the tedious task of moving, measuring and listening, most of what I did was more for show than something mysterious. The clients spent their money with me and deserved a good dog and pony act." I hope you were kidding Jan. I would hate for you to destroy my impression that you were an honorable salesperson - or is that really an oxymoron? John A Congrats for making the decision - I hope the Quads are all you thought they'd be. The B&W 601 S3's are not what I'd thought they'd be. Oh yes, they are great for rear surrounds, but in our largish living/dining/lounge room they don't quite cut it as stand alone speakers which we wanted for listening from our dining area. Fortunately, I have a great dealer who agreed to let me upgrade to the 602's which will provide more punch and bigger sound and will hopefully arrive today. More cash out but I know I will be much happier with the decision. Larry, I'm pleased your and Mer have something with which to listen to music. How is the NAD behaving now? Rick, Mrs Rantz and I would be more than happy to step in for Jan and come to Florida to do your room treatments. Although 5 star accommodation is a prerequisite, we would consider flying business class if that's any help. LOL! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Dog and pony shows are part of selling audio. The two best I've used are the Nakmichi auto reverse decks and the Tandberg Double Advent demo. The Naks used to pull the cassette out of the machine on a drawer which then flipped the cassette around and slid back into the machine. Compared to a Yamaha or Denon auto reverse which flipped the head only, the Naks were an easy sell. The Tandberg display was at the first dealership I worked at. The store was the largest Advent dealer West of the Mississippi. The Double Advents were set up in the front of the store hooked to a Tandberg 2075 receiver. On the wall next to the speakers was a plaque from Tandberg with a gilded Cross-Field head on the front. When you switched the single Advents on and played the 32Hz note on the Saint-Saen sym #3 the sound was impressive. When you hit the B speaker switch and the second set of Advents kicked in and the amp saw 4 Ohms, the sound was incredible and as the client was smiling the lowest note hit and the Tandberg plaque literally jumped off the wall. The customer had their wallets out to buy the Double Advents before the plaque hit the ground. No Klipsch or JBL could accomplish the same trick. It's all dog and pony stuff. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 881 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, You kids are welcome any time. As with any of our friends, stay a weekend, stay two months, it makes no difference to us. I'll work on the 5th Star between now and then. LOL! Could you imagine me and Jan face to face? Two living legends side by side. Jan a legend in his own time, and me a legend in my spare time. OK, I'll duck and run now...................... |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1453 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan, Yes it is - if the customer walks away satisfied then yours was a job well done - and if you sold him something then that's a bonus! Rick Two living legends - one in his own time and one in his spare time? Let me think on that . . . Okay, let me know when you guys will be appearing at Buddy Guy's - then I'll believe it! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 691 Registered: Oct-04 | To all: and then there are those who are legends in their own minds. . . Jan V. - yew shuddah sold Bang and Olufsen stuff, and you would have gone home with a smile every night. Great looking stuff, with panache and style and magic, and all. . . My Rantz: the NAD is behaving very well, thank you, sir! I'm sorta in the middle, uh, muddle, or whatever of some DVD testing. So far, the Yamaha smokes the Samsung 2 to 1 on everything I throw at it. The Samsung is just el-cheapo in comparison, and in every way. Can't wait to get a Yammie back in the house! the Samsung looks great, but as we all know - beauty is skin deep, especially in audio=land. Any word from SM? Or has she just disappeared into Maggie-land for good??? Geez, if Id-ah known how great they are, I mite-ah gone that way 2!!! SM! Hello! (hello down there!) are you wid us, gal-friend? Uh, hi and how-ah-yah. SM! SM! (sigh - alas, poor Ghia, we knew you well, and what we knew was well worth our time and energy. Rest in peace, dear friend! sob sob sob) Do they bury people with their speakers? Or will SM surface, unscathed and ready for verbal sparring? Sigh. Let's hope for the latter. . . sigh. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 692 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz - hmmmm - thought you might find the "original" B&Ws a tad to light-weight, but didn't want to say anything. Good show, ole chap. Keep on keeping on. . . And let's plan on this. Since Rick and company will most likely land somewhere north of us in Florrid-ugh - here's an invitation to join us for some Swampville hospitality, as well! We've got fried 'gator tails, with shrimp done up in lime juice and coconut milk. Some fine frog legs cooked just enough so that they "jump" a bit when you first bite into them. (boy, do we get a kick outtah watching the visiturs eet doze!) We've got Swampgrass beer that is known to kill any and all insects that land in it - and to have strange effects on human drinkers. Add to that some genuine made-at-home near-shore muck ice cream, that's about the color of chocolate, but bears no relationship to anything edible. Some people swear that it makes you younger - but those of us "in the know" realize that the youth aspect only comes out if you smear the ice cream on your face. Nobody in their right mind eats the crud! (grin) Hey - we're kultured, my frennd! But welcum to Florid-duh, anyway! You'll never fergit us! (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 693 Registered: Oct-04 | Question of the night: Is EVERYBODY buying new speakers? Eh? Jest wunnering. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1455 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry Stop it - you're making my mouth water again! Yes, originally I was after the 602's but they were out of stock and on hearing the 601's I thought they might suffice (and save some dough). As surrounds for movies and hi-res music they excelled, but as stand-alones in our largish, high ceilinged room they were just a tad unsatisfying. I must say they are a great little speaker though. Thanks for the invite - Rick also - maybe those lotto balls will roll our way one day. Of course you old dogs are welcome here also. Our house is small, but could probably scrounge a tent and a sleeping bag or two - hey all you need is tent if you've got love - who said that and when? Test your memories. Anyway, think of the wonderful hi-res surround music you'll experience (big fat grin). And Rick - two weeks with you guys would be enough, especially if I had to hear only stereo LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 426 Registered: Mar-04 | I'll go with Authur D. Legg, sometime around 1900 I would think. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 694 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz, sir: Akchewly, dat's not wot we hadd fer dyner tonyte. Slow-baked salmon with dill/lemon/butter sauce - fresh asparagus cooked until just past the "stiff" phase, and done with butter and thyme - sliced tomato (picked myself at a nearby farm) and avocado with honey-mustard dressing topped lightly with fresh cilantro - and some nice pinot grigio (Italian, sorry, Rantz) with some mango sorbet topped with thin-sliced banana and pineapple which was then sprinkled with just a hint of coarse-ground raw brown sugar. Dat's it fer tonite - (burp) the gator must wait! (grin) Tastes like TOUGH chicken, though. . . . If you get tired of Rick's 2-channel, come on down for the full monty surround!!! (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 695 Registered: Oct-04 | Sem: Actually, you are on the right track. It WAS D. Legg who, with R. Huotari and D. Townsend, presented a paper on "the Poly algorithim on convex sets as applied to human cohabitation and oxygen interchange under canvas. Don't have the xact date, though - sorry. You may be right with 1900, but I think it a bit early. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - Of course I sold B&O. Several of the largest systems I ever sold were all B&O equipment and not one piece of audio gear was visible until you opened the audio cabinet (or looked behind the sofa to find a R40 flat panel speaker). B&O customers are very different people. We were constantly reminded B&O's charter stated their purpose was to build unique and unusual pieces of audio equipment. Their charter never mentioned good sounding or reliable. But, B&O was selling whole house remote controlled systems back in 1980, long before any other company got into the market. A real dog and pony show were their linear tracking turntables. Try explaining a B&O remote to a lawyer. You will not go home with a smile on your face. When I first began selling B&O, we were building our own in-wall speakers since the market didn't have any prefab pieces at that time (1978). We had a cabinet maker put together the baffle and frame and used KEF drivers. One very popular combination we put together used the KEF B110 woofer and T27 tweeter which are the basic components of the LS3/5a's. We sold those for $350 a pair and they were/are worth every penny. B&O eventually screwed every dealer that made the reputation they enjoy in the US by disenfranchising all the original dealers and selling B&O store franchises. They left a lot of dealers who had repair services in the store with lots of expensive B&O parts they refused to buy back. My opinion of B&O is not very high. Just as a side note to those who are interested in turntables. In 1978 the store I worked for blew out our last stock of the Linn Sondek LP12's for $165. We then brought in the Connoisseur table with the kick start on/off switch. A very bad move on the store's part. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Concerning everyone buying speakers; as usual, I'm sticking with my 30 year old LS3/5a's. But you all have fun. |
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Bronze Member Username: TevoChicago, IL USA Post Number: 81 Registered: Feb-05 | Larry R sez: Question of the night: Is EVERYBODY buying new speakers? Eh? Jest wunnering. . . -------- Sure seems that way! In contrast, I've had to sell nearly all my kit due to a recent sea change. I must say I've enjoyed reading this thread. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2851 Registered: Dec-03 | Ah... Peace and reconcilation within the US. I can see the press conference and the photos and video clips of beaming Old Dogs and warm handshakes. Perhaps history will refer to it as "The Orlando Accord" or similar. Larry, I did not know one may post here from text messages on a phone. My Rantz, Thanks for good wishes. I will certainly let you know if the dream becomes reality. Most likely I will hear all the problems with the amp and source, and also want a room upgrade. Tweaks such as wall hangings may not be enough. A valve amp is for later, but definitely on the agenda. Well done with the 602s, and good luck. Does this mean you will be using them as main speakers? Usually people do not use surrounds for stereo listening. Two Cents, Thanks, again. The HFNews review likened choosing between the Prologues one (with EL34) and two (with KT88) to choosing between "Pepsi and Coke" but I think it was intended as a pun. I am slow with jokes, as MR knows. The One is supposed to give a "warmer" sound. I am still not sure what that means. (What happened to Jan's "Definitions" thread"?) I read and heard (from the walking encyclopedia at the dealer I mentioned) that Quad ESLs do not work well with SET tube amps, simply because they need more power. You can also cause arcing between the charged membranes if you give them too much power. They have an transient overload cut-out to prevent this, but it is not always successful. As before, will report back. Initially they will get a signal from my NAD T533 and old FM tuner, amplified through a well-made Sony transistor stereo power amp whose model number I cannot remember, rated 80 WPC or so. The mid-range and the imaging are supposed to be the ESL strengths, since they correspond more than any conventional speaker to the ideal "point source". But they are fussy about positioning, and we do not have much leeway in the current, small (and temporary) listening/dining/sitting/reading/watching_TV/everything_else room. We'll see. What is your take on all this tube nonsense, now, 2c? I remember Gregory, for example, scoffed at the idea there was any audible difference between types of amp, unless they were overdriven. I was initially inclined to that view. Not any more! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1456 Registered: Aug-04 | John A No, the 602's will remain as rear surrounds but will have stereo duties when we require a respectable distance to speakers when (as stated previously) listening from the dining section of our open plan living/dining/lounge room. They will be banana plugged for ease of switching from rear posts to 'B' speaker posts. Seeing as there are no more takers (or interested parties) on the question asked Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 09:18 pm: John Sebastion - Woodstock '69 As to the joke John - what/who did Keith jag? "Concerning everyone buying speakers; as usual, I'm sticking with my 30 year old LS3/5a's." Careful when vacuuming around them! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2852 Registered: Dec-03 | Posts crossed, J.V and Tevo; I had not read anything after Larry, March 01, 2005 - 10:19 pm. Apologies. Jan, One of many things I thank you for is confirming amply my tentative view that nothing has really improved concerning amps and speakers. You hang on to those LS3/5as. Interesting stuff about B&O. I have never even considered them; I am totally allergic to their whole image. The people I have known with B&O systems are smug and well-heeled, craving admiration for style, but with no discernable interest in music or sound quality. They did not buy hi-fi; they bought a statement about themselves. Perhaps we all do that, but I for one would choose to make a completely different statement. An LP12 for $165? Holy Shmoley or similar phrase. When considering tape decks (what a mis-spent youth) I obtained several demos of Nakamichis etc where the clown gave me a pair of headphones and put on a Dolby B tape with the noise reduction switched off. It happened enough times for me to think it must have worked with other customers. Was that a "dog and pony show"? "Is everyone buying new speakers?" Not me. I am buying old ones. Although there is a current model following the basic same design, as is the case for legendary LS3/5a. Thanks also to J.V. for encouragement. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2853 Registered: Dec-03 | Another crossed post, MR. Sorry. Was Woodstock not the festival of which was said something such as "If you can remember it, you weren't there"? Yes, you explained the set-up. Sorry, I am not paying sufficient attention! You might find the B&Ws make better mains, as well as stereo speakers. Clever new AV receivers will let you direct different channels to different speakers, as I recall, and I think I read about an NAD where you can switch the stereo to the surrounds. But I would be inclined to use banana plus, too. And spend the money saved on something else. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2854 Registered: Dec-03 | MR, After deep thought, I get it. A "Mick" jagger. Lord, that's bad. Thanks! There was this one about Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithful getting busted, and when the police walked in... (answers on a postcard, please). |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 482 Registered: Feb-04 | John A., Good stuff. Funny you ask about the tube nonsense. I'm still trying to assess it all. I've exchanged emails with a fellow Prologue 2 owner, who has replaced the stock KT88 tubes on his amp with ElectroHarmonix EL34 tubes for a smoother, warmer midrange (note you can't go from EL34 to KT88 on the P1). And here I am hoping my P2 doesn't get any warmer in tone. Right now, the sound has really bloomed after about 60 hours of burn-in. It sounds fantastic. The music has real presence. If you have ever thought the music on your system sounded harsh, lean, and/or flat, you're a prime candidate for a tube amp. That's my take at this moment. More later. Tevo, Can I have some more porridge, sir? |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 696 Registered: Oct-04 | Tevo: sorry about your "sea change," ole chap. I had a couple bad ones of those whilst working as a news-slave in Chicago. My condolences, sir! Jan V. - Interesting that you were working in stereo when B & O was still being sold along with other brands. Now, at least here in Florid-Ugh, the B & O brand is - as you mentioned - sold in its "own" stores. And you are also quite correct. B & O stores are in the HI-end shopping centers, and thus cater to hi-ended people. Hmmm. . . But day shore arr purty!!!!! SoundArt on the walls, as Mer says. John A. - your point about making a point with B&O purchase was a good one. But you DID manage to sneak in just a suspicion that all of us are, in one way or another, trying to "make a statement" with our stereo purchases. Look at me, proud as a peacock with B & O. "Lemon and bitters, please, Jeeves!" And Rantz with his B & Os, listened to with a fine Shiraz-toast! And there's SM, smugly snuggling smack-dab in her Maggies. While Jan V. lords it over mere "newbies" with his burnished and babied Spendors. Ah, yes - we all do make our own statements, one way or the other, John. And we look forward to yours, sir! (grin) More anon. . . OH - PS - the Samsung is OK, but the build is far less than the Yammie, though the fine blue-glow power switch would make Kegger drool!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: TevoChicago, IL USA Post Number: 83 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for the sentiments. No worries... this way, when my employment status improves, I can buy a new system. Again. At least I still have a C542 and a pair of HD580s. Plus I did buy an X-CANV3 headphone amp with what I had left over... so the music is still with me. It's just all in my head. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 427 Registered: Mar-04 | Larry, Thanks, I looked your D. Legg up but we're talking two different people here. The Aurthur Legg I was referring to founded Eureka! Tents and Seasonal Structures in 1895, where he designed custom Conestoga wagon covers, horse blankets, American flags......and tents. So with a bit of imagination, I can picture him saying, "all you need is a tent if you've got love." Eureka! went on to become one of the (if not THE) largest and most respected tent manufacturers in the world. About 25 years ago the business was sold to Johnson Outdoors, though I believe you can still buy tents with the Eureka! name on them. To bring this full-circle, and the relevance in posting this here is because Eureka! Camping Center, as it is now known, is located about a mile or two down the same road as McIntosh Labs. See, everything eventually ties into home theater. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 883 Registered: Dec-03 | John, I look forward to your "review" of the Quads in due time. I hope you do enjoy them. I read an article recently, in Stereophile I believe, where a pair of Quads were being driven by a pair of Lamm 18Wpc SET monoblocks. Again, you can't think of tube power in terms of transistor power. I drive a very inefficient 84dB speaker with a 20Wpc amp in an 18'x18' room, beyond normal listening levels. It still amazes me. 2C, Glad to hear the amp "blossomed", and you are starting to enjoy that tube sound. Enjoy! Tevo, Welcome to "Old Dogs". If you can stand the insanity, stick around and contribute. Cheers to all! Larry, Did I mention the Jolida has a blue power on LED? |
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Bronze Member Username: TevoChicago, IL USA Post Number: 84 Registered: Feb-05 | Rick, Thanks although, apparently, "young pup being schooled" might be a more appropriate thread title for me. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 697 Registered: Oct-04 | Rick: I'm delighted for you! Yep. Join the Kegger-Larry consort and flash proudly, sir! Blue rules! Sem: Hope you unnerstand that my reply, while referring to an actual chap, was written with tongue firmly in right cheek? Thot so. . .Hmmm, McIntosh in a tent? Interesting concept. . . Tevo: "music in your head" ain't all that bad, sir. Years ago I did a long TV interview with then-director of the Chicagy Symphony Chorus Margaret Hillis. We took cameras through her beautiful North Shore home, and did the requisite "sit down and talk" stuff. A bit later, as I was browsing through her extensive library, she came up and asked if I was looking for anything in particular. Yes, I told her, I am just trying to see what kind of stereo equipment you have? She laughed a hearty laugh and said: "Larry, I don't have any record-players. I conduct, and I listen, and I go to concerts - and anytime I want to hear a piece of music, I just call it up in my mind, and it plays - perfectly - every time!" And she laughed again. A hearty laugh from a talented woman who retired about the same time I did, and who recently passed on - to the loss of the music world. So you're in fine company with that "music in your head." Sigh - sure do miss my old life "in the company of Titans" such as Ms. Hillis, and Sir Georg Solti, etc. Heady company, those. . . Double Sigh - my ole brain obviously short-circuited in an earlier post, where I referred to My Rantz's speakers - and mine - as "B&Os." Rather obvious that I should have penned "B&Ws." Apologies to the company, and the readers. With that - more anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 698 Registered: Oct-04 | Rick: Mer happened in, and read over my shoulder re the blue light. She opined that the Yammie had one major flaw: it's front panel is lit in orange, not blue, light. Sigh. She calls that a flaw - I call it a disaster. We were trying to find a way to change it - but the front panel is orangish plastic, and thus orange the light shall forever be. The Jolida folk are obviously light-years ahead of Yamaha! (was there a pun in there somewhere?) |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 884 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, I have a fresh 12" of snow on the ground, compliments of the latest storm in the Northeast. It's the 3rd storm in 8 days.................. As Popeye would say; "I can't stands no more". This is usually about the time of year my friends start removing all sharp objects, and anything that can be used as a projectile from the house. Only kidding! And how sunny is Florida today? |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 699 Registered: Oct-04 | R-r-r-rick: we're, uh, "freezing!" Oh, it is getting to the place where my blood is moving again, but overnight saw 52, and it has finally made it up to 61. Sunny, but with a wind right out of your part of the country. Thanks for nuttin' sir! (grin) At least you're keeping your snow! (please!) For all you "Nawtherners" once you get used to 80s and 90s - 50s are C O L D ! ! ! ! Can hardly wait for your Florrid-Ugh arrival, so you, too, can birch about "freezing" in the 50s and 60s! (grin) M-m-more l-l-later. . .keep the blue light glowing! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 885 Registered: Dec-03 | Thank you Larry and Mer. 50 degrees right now would be a major heat wave. Thanks for the weather update. Stay warm. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1457 Registered: Aug-04 | Greetings from the future.It's Thursday the 3rd day of autumn, 5.15 am, I'm sitting at the computer in shorts and t-shirt. Snow - what is that stuff? Well, I returned the 601's late yesterday and lugged the 602's home. These are huge by bookshelf standards and where they are now placed, don't have the same WAF as their predecessors. When and if we can rearrange our furniture we may acquire a pair of stands to which they are suited. Although not run in* (as the dealer and B&W suggest) the improvement I hear now was well worth the extra money. Much larger sound and deeper bottom end - as John says, these could work well as mains. * My dealer said he usually runs the demo B&W's for a couple of days before letting the customers listen. So if these 602's open up even more then they should prove to be little(big) wonders. When I had re-packed the 601's for their return, I replaced the JBL S3611's while waiting for the 602's to arrive. Well, you recall how great I had thought our system had sounded - not so - it was a revelation. I couldn't wait for the B&W's. It wasn't that it sounded really bad - it just didn't sound really good! At least it justified the purchase for 'youknowwho' LOL! So for audio - we are there! Whether I like it or not! Thank heavens I like it! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 700 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz - yeah, thank Heaven you like it! (grin) so - what if you did not? Uh-oh, don't even want to go there, my friend! Guess we're sorta in the same boat - systems that finally sound as good as we might hope for, given the level of our financial investment. The Yamaha should be in California for repair/replacement/whatever by tomorrow. Hoping for a new unit - and hoping it is better than the last one! The trouble is that the old one was intermittent - didn't always express the same sound-problem Like going to the dentist and having your toothache suddenly stop? Yep. . . I'm still using my old and butchered Rad-Shak surrounds - but I did enter a contest where one of the prizes is a pair of the "Orb" speakers I've been wondering about. If I could just win those, I "think" I'll have a pretty good setup. Those would be surround, of course! Mer says "no" to putting larger speakers in surround spots, so I'm seeking the best sound possible for the buck and the space. sigh. hard work, this! You're so lucky that you have a dealer who seems intelligent. Counter to those mopes here, who really haven't a clue. . . So - the question of the day: do our "new" speakers really sound better after they've been run-in a few days - or do we just get used to the sound and more accepting of it? Wondering. . . Have a great day, MR! And shout a happy "Hi" to Ms. Rantz from Mer and me. Come on, Lotto ticket! More anon. . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 1836: Texas declares itself an independent republic. If only it had stayed that way. 1945: Anne Frank dies in Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. 1982: Philip K. Dick dies, Santa Ana, California, American science fiction writer par excellence, known for creation of eerily prescient (so far)dystopias. ******************************************* Doc Watson is 82 today. Lou Reed turns 63. Sweet Jane!!! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1459 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan, In case you want a set of spares: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14991%26item%3D5755181 334%26 |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 483 Registered: Feb-04 | 1892: Sigmund Freud eats his first frankfurter. Others in the cafeteria eating Vienna sausages look at him with envy. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 484 Registered: Feb-04 | Everything in the world has a spirit that is liberated by its sound. -C. Forche |
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