Archive through February 25, 2005
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 669 Registered: Oct-04 | DVD strangeness: My Rantz et al - have been putting the Yammie through its paces - and have determined one interesting thing: the drop-outs and strange sound-level changes occur ONLY on the 7.1, or analogue out, settings. I've switched out the wires, cleaned and re-cleaned the contacts, and have run the liddle lens-cleaner disc four times now. As I said, I'm e-mailing Yamaha support to see what they say - will keep you posted. Meantime, I'm not getting into the case - warranty issues and all that, you know! As to the strange sound levels and drop-outs - when I play the tone-burst CD that's for setting up the subwoofer - that's when I finally zero in on the differences. In the digital out position, the tones play nice and even. With the 7.1 analogue out, the tones have hesitations, and levels will change a bit. Very strange to me. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 216 Registered: Dec-03 | R.I.P. HST |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | CAN NO ONE READ??? CAN NO ONE THINK LOGICALLY?Not even the person who wrote the question? Here is the original question as posted by Larry (Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 05:31 pm): " ... how many notes (whole or half-step) is 7.5 feet in wavelength?" Here is the information you need to solve the riddle: http://www.maximacar.com/system_design2.htm Please take a moment to peak at the answer. It should become immediately apparent to you. You will also, of course, realize that both our esteemed respondents are incorrect in their wildeyed guesses. If you will carefully read the question, you will see the information required will be contained in any difference of 7.5 feet in wavelength. Looking carefully at the speadsheet of wavelength vs. frequency, you will find 7.5 feet in wavelength can fall between several points. The frequencies of 50Hz to 80Hz being just one of those points where a (roughly) 7.5 foot difference can be found. You will also note the difference between 20Hz and 25Hz is over 11 feet. Not being truly versed in the decimal points required to accurately answer the question posed when the wavelength is limited to a mere 7.5 feet, I will make a guess that the difference in wavelength in question would fall roughly between 22Hz and 25Hz. How many notes (whole or half step) will exist between 22Hz and 25Hz? The difference between 150Hz and 2.5kHz is roughly 7 plus feet. How many notes? We could, of course, take this to the extremes if we had the information provided for the wavelength of one Hertz. If anyone knows the wavelength of 1Hz, please answer how many notes would be contained within the 7.5 foot wavelength in question using 1Hz as the beginning number. I suspect we'll still be under two Hertz. Since the question was not originally posed as the points between 50Hz and 80Hz, I assumed the question was much like, "how many grooves are there on each side of a vinyl, microgroove stereo LP?". One per side, of course. I took it as a trick question. The sort you would use in the bar after the symphony to win a round of drinks from your friends. Was I mistaken? Now, if you will all permit me, let's look again at the question posed by Larry. "(H)ow many notes (whole or half-step) is 7.5 feet in wavelength?". I will reply, once again, as many as are required and not a single note more. Thank you for your time. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 670 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V. et al - what I wanted - and still want to know - is simply this. If SM sets her subwoofer crossover at 50Hz, and I suggest that 80Hz would be better - how many more notes on the scale would she get from her subwoofer? I'm suggesting that the difference would be roughly 5 notes on the Western scale. Not a lot of notes, but it would make quite a difference, I believe. So - let's forget the wavelength argument, OK? All I'm trying to suggest to SM is that a slight adjustment upwards in the crossover will take a bit of strain off her main speaker, and put it on the sub amp. Am I wrong here, guyz? Jan - you were the one who brought up this wavelength issue - all I STILL want to know, and convey to SM is: "Will setting the subwoofer crossover at 80Hz instead of 50Hz make an appreciable difference in sound for both the sub and the mains speakers?" I contend the 80Hz is a more logical crossover: others may differ strongly. and have a peaceful, stress-free day. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 671 Registered: Oct-04 | BenJames: I doubt that HST will fine "peace" anywhere he goes: he breeds controversy, and challenges all. But he was a damn good writer! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "Jan - you were the one who brought up this wavelength issue" Ahh, I see, it's my fault. Well, as the saying is paraphrased, "there I go again". ****************************** "Will setting the subwoofer crossover at 80Hz instead of 50Hz make an appreciable difference in sound for both the sub and the mains speakers?" If you discount the word "appreciable" to designate or imply an absolute scale to which we could all agree (and we've seen how successful we are at that), I would answer - probably. There are too may variables in your question (once again) to give a definitive answer. Why don't we let the panel weigh in on the subject and sort it out as we go along. Larry, you keep playing those test discs and maybe you'll find your answer. Of course, the question of line level or speaker level may influence your decision, so be certain to try both before stating a preference. You can just temporarily insert a chunk of that 14 AWG extension cord from Home Depot for the connection if needed. It will cost you less than $20, but you will have a better understanding of the difference between the two connections. Trust me on this one, Larry. Buy the cable in bulk and you'll cut the expense by one third. If you hear an improvement, you should spend the money for better cable for the complete connection. If you don't hear a difference, then you've only wasted a few dollars but gained knowledge. We will await the reporting of your findings. By the way, I use line level connections, have the sub X-over set at 40Hz on both the processor and the SACD player. Front main speakers are set to large even thought they roll off at about 45-50Hz. The sub's own X-over is set to 150Hz. My subwoofer's cabinet is set on a free standing shelf about 4' off the floor and close to the corner of the room. It fires across the diagonal length of the room. More for convenience than sound, the sub sits about two feet behind my front satellite speakers. The gain control on the sub is set where I feel comfortable when the gain from the processor and SACD are at "0". I use the remote's control to adjust subwoofer gain to suit a program source. I have no absolute in my settings for Center, Sub, or Surrounds. I have only beginning points and where I want to be. Personally, I saw a SPL meter used once to set up a system and decided I could do better by ear. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | HST? et tu Hemmingway. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 842 Registered: Dec-03 | Just thought I would share this quick story with the "Dogs". File it in the "How Old I Feel" section. I drive to the local mall yesterday to buy some CD's. It's one of those major chain stores. I decide to add to my Robert Cray Band collection, but can't find him in the racks. I ask for help, and I get the classic Who?, from some kid. A very sarcastic who at that. This is why a lioness on occasional must eat one of her young at birth. I went on to find it on my own. Snot nose twit. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rick, I feel your pain, anger, frustration and desire to smash the twit into a grease spot. But, were you not young once? Possibly someone may have asked you, should you have chosen the career path of mouthbreathing schmuck, where the original Sonny Boy Williamson discs were stored. You, of course, didn't known there was an "original" Sonny Boy. Your response would have been? The mother lion will give her offspring the opportunity to learn the lesson before euthanasia becomes the last resort. Taking a lesson from the lioness, try this route next time you are presented with this opportunity to educate. A small, low gutteral snarl first. Then the paw comes to the back of the cub's head, knocking them quickly and sharply to the ground. Before the cub can regain their breath, a paw rolls the cub over and is then placed firmly upon the cub's chest. The lioness lowers her head to within a few inches of the cub's nose and the lioness gives a good shot of hot breath into the cub's muzzle. The proper etiquette is made obvious and the cub is left to ponder the lesson as the lioness turns and walks away. You might want to give a quick check for an awake security officer before implementing this approach. There are too many Barney Fife's out there. |
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Bronze Member Username: AsimoPost Number: 55 Registered: Apr-04 | John A I am a little surprise to learn that there are even better performances of Handel Messiah. The Messiah is one of the most popular vocal oratorio at all times and there are hundreds of various performances. I counted in the Penguin guide 15 three stars CD's sung in German and 8 three stars CD's performances sung in English including 4 rosette grade. I have four different performances and I usually do not collect duplicates of the same composition. Your recommendation for Coro della Radio Svizzera DVD-A should be either distinguished performance or a proof for superiority of SACD / DVD-A |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 843 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, I had the paw to the back of the head part down better than most, especially in my younger days. Now, I am like an old lion in so much as I have to roar now and again, to remind myself that I still can. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1422 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry, Re: the dropouts etc - I wouldn't discount the problem being with the NAD as they have had their share of problems lately. That and the fact that the DVD player works okay with the digital connection. Someone with a lot of audio related knowledge might give you some information on how (if possible) to ascertain whether it is the player or receiver that needs a good whack :-) Mr Vigne? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | With the equipment Larry has it is difficult to swap components which is often the easiest way to begin finding the problem's location. Larry, do you still have your old DVD player? Are the spots where the dropouts occur at consistent spots on the discs, or are they random.? In other words, if you hear the dropout and immediately repeat that section of music; will the dropout occur in the same spot? While we're on the subject, I really don't want to sound preachy, really I don't in this case; but, Larry, you need to stop cleaning and recleaning everything. Particularly the connections. Every time you pull the plug loose and reinsert the plug, you risk damaging the connection inside the player and amplifier. I won't tell you the connections won't cause certain problems, but you are unlikely with decent cables to have the levels of oxidation required to foul a connection. You can easily do more harm than good by constantly pulling the cables loose to clean and reclean them. If you make a connection well, it should remain a good connection for a long, long time. So stop it; OK? Just stop it. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 217 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, That is why I shop indie record stores. Better selection, comparable prices, and employees who care about music. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2831 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, "both our esteemed respondents are incorrect in their wildeyed guesses. " As regards which note, and frequiency, I was close enough. As regards how many notes, I got the right answer! Rick, I am with you and then some. That young pup is not your cub. Nor mine. Let him find his own way. Jan is too kind. You and I were never like that, when young; it stands to reason. Asimo, "Your recommendation for Coro della Radio Svizzera DVD-A should be either distinguished performance or a proof for superiority of SACD / DVD-A" In my opinion, it is both. (I have four versions, too; I have also attended a number of quite different live perfomances). But I really don't mind. The definitive performance was in 1749, surely, and surround sound was all they had. Even mono had not been invented. No I was not there. Even I am not that old! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 672 Registered: Oct-04 | All: OK - the drop-outs occur randomly, and sometimes one after another, sometimes one at a time. The discs do NOT contain the problem, as I play them over, and the drop-outs don't necessarily occur at the same place - ever. I've checked through on everything that I can think of - but this one thing nags at me. The drop-outs on the analog side ONLY occur when I'm playing a non-SACD disc. The SACDs play beautifully. So - I'm thinking - there might be something wrong with the dratted Dolby Pro Logic that the Yammie plays automatically when you put a non-SACD disc in the player, and select the 7.1 analog output? Very strange to me. With that in mind, I'm going to heed Jan's advice, and leave cleaning alone. for now, at least. All the connectors are gold-plated, and corrosion is not much of an issue here. The one thing I worry about is that the Canare plugs might have been put together less than perfectly. If so, to take them apart is a real pain! Yamaha has not yet answered my e-mails for help, so I've got nothing to report there. And a happy night to all. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 845 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Ben, I'll keep that in mind. John, It is a different world today. At least we had a little respect for our elders, even if we didn't agree with them. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2832 Registered: Dec-03 | Wonderful analysis of animal behaviour. The pup's/cub's appropriate response is to roll over, exposing vulnerable underbelly, demonstrating trust and obsience. You don't often get that from sales assistants. Not these days. The older male then backs off; the lesson has been learned, for the good of the pride/pack. I roar with you, Rick. Perhaps he'll learn. If not, who cares. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 474 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry, I saw this: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/product.asp?itemid=124&catid=51 and thought of you. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 475 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry, I saw this: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/product.asp?itemid=124&catid=51 and thought of you. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | John - You got what answer right? Larry - I really don't think I can help you. Try playing the discs through the analog inputs and do not select Pro Logic. Don't worry about the cables. |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 80 Registered: Jan-05 | The drop-outs on the analog side ONLY occur when I'm playing a non-SACD disc. The SACDs play beautifully This may be another display of ignorance on my part but, if this is the only situation in which this occurs, can the Yammy be plugged into the CD inputs on the NAD to see if the dropouts happen there? If they do, then it would seem reasonable that the problem lies within the Yammy or the cables. If they don't occur then this might indicate a problem with the 7.1 inputs on the NAD. Also, as Jan mentioned, can you disable the Dolby Prologic to see if that clears up the dropouts? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1423 Registered: Aug-04 | Okay, Larry - If you only get the problem when playing throught the analogue outs and SACD's play okay (naturally through the analogue outs), then it seems to me that the problem is with the DVD player. I would try what the others suggested though it seems your problem lies in the Yammies DSP :- What happens when you play cd's straight without using DD pro logic and other processing? |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 673 Registered: Oct-04 | Two Cents: Ah, yes. . .another way for me to get rid of my nagging cash, eh? Well - I'm sure they do work. Yep. Thanks - I think! (grin) SM - OK - to disengage the Pro Logic on the Yammie in 7.1 mode I have to stop the player, turn on the TV, set up the menu, and then go into "multi-channel." Then I have to scroll down a list and select "stereo" instead of the Pro Logic II. It takes a huge amount of time, and then, once I decide to play a SACD, I've got to go back into the menu, and de-select "stereo," then scroll down and select "all." It's very frustrating, but just for the heck of it, I'll give it a trial run and see what happens. sorta like weight-lifting without weights. The Yammie is a wunnerful player, but it's on-screen menu system really sucks sludge! Still waiting for a response from Yamaha. Thanks for your concern, SM. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 674 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz - sorry, another post-crossing. Well, I've played "regular" CDs on the digital output, and they're fine. But I've not yet tried to disengage the Pro Logic in the 7.1 playback. I'll do that tomorrow. Just to see. Trying to finish up the income taxes tonight. Tomorrow will be "hell day." Gotta take the car in for major work by 7:30 - then rush home in a loaner car so that Mer can get way the other side of town by 9 a.m. - for JURY DUTY! Sigh. She's all bent out of shape - and so I have to be in my best "support" role. Sigh.Again. Somewhere in there I've gotta finish the taxes, and FedEx them to our accountant, up in Illinois. I think of Scotch - continually! (grin) Still in awe of SM and Jan, with their sub crossovers set at 50 and 40, respectively. I tried mine at 40Hz and got so little out of it that I quickly reverted to 100 Hz. To each his/her own on this, I guess. More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1424 Registered: Aug-04 | Income taxes and jury duty - make that a double Scotch Larry :-) I think you'll be lucky to hear from Yamaha - probably a bit like Sony. Try to find out who is your nearest warranty repair agent and try to phone them about the problem - just a suggestion. As for Jan and SM - As they don't (I am led to believe) have full range speakers I would have thought they might get a bit of a hole where the low frequency in their speakers roll off and where the sub's roll in - but I guess they know what they want their subs to do - I only wish I could figure it out. Maybe theirs have periscopes:-) |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 675 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz - good suggestion. Thenearest authorized repair place is Ft. Lauderdale - across Florida from us, but only about 95 miles away. I'll phone them - thanx. And I always thought the idea of the sub was to take over from the mains speakers Before they reached their bottom end. OH, well. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 676 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz - good suggestion. Thenearest authorized repair place is Ft. Lauderdale - across Florida from us, but only about 95 miles away. I'll phone them - thanx. And I always thought the idea of the sub was to take over from the mains speakers Before they reached their bottom end. OH, well. . . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2833 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, I stick with "Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 04:03 am:" Rick, Quite right. "Not like when we were young"; "pity you can't put an old head on young shoulders" etc. (Smiley). Jan, The question to which I had the right answer was "how many notes in a wave of length seven and a half feet?" Kegger, Too bad with the firewall. I remember when the internet was there to send information to anywhere, receive it from anywhere, and all for free. This creeping control is all made possible by digital data transmission. It is there in digital broadcasting, too. Not to mention SACD... (Yes, and now DVD-A, too). As I have said, we need a new Bill of Rights. ISPs now oblige us to use their own servers for SMTP. There are barriers everywhere to the free flow of information, and more are being put up every day. It worries me. When we have to vote electronically the whole world will be stitched up to the benefit of those who think they know what we should be doing with our lives and our time! (End of rant) To whom, By the way, I wonder if we are not in danger of losing sight of the original question, here? Have we answered it to everyone's satisfaction? Or is no agreement possible? Is it a question to which there is no answer? Jan...? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1425 Registered: Aug-04 | Of course there's an answer: Stereo is nice and excellent at best But surround surpasses especially in hi res You can have your tubes and your old boxy Macs But I'll stick with my kit and you can stick all your facts So the question is answered and there'll be no unanimous vote But you ain't heard what I have heard so this bloke doth bespoke Stereo has had it special place in a time that's well past Surround is here and staying put as it's just so good it's bound to last :-) |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2218 Registered: Dec-03 | John: "Kegger, Too bad with the firewall" I may have it figured out! Windows xp has "remote desktop conection" which I believe I just got setup correctly! Going through all the hoops I had to do to get there! Shheeezzzz what a mess! But will know more tommorrow when I try it from work. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2219 Registered: Dec-03 | Also John: "To whom, -------------- By the way, I wonder if we are not in danger of losing sight of the original question, here? --------- (maybe) Have we answered it to everyone's satisfaction? ----------------------------------- (I belive we've done all we can do) Or is no agreement possible? -------------------------------- (yes I believe that is the case) Is it a question to which there is no answer? " ----------------------------------------- (No I believe we all have our own answer) My personal feeling is stereo is still great and maybe even more of a true test of your systems pluses and minuses then suround is and should be the standard to judge by! But I believe a good surround system adds something that stereo can't do. Where some who don't mind the abnormalness of being surrounded can enjoy it very much. I believe the people who don't like or enjoy the suround experience is because it's not what they want there system to sound like. And to me that is fine! I enjoy stereo very much and I also enjoy surround but agree it doesn't follow stereos rules and for some that is annoying while others embrace it! I think that's about all there is to it. If you've been criticlly listening to 2 channel and what it's suppose to do right then surround breaks all those rules and throws them out the window and some just can't enjoy/cope/let it do that for them! That's no knock on them for wanting rules and bounderies to adhere to. I think for them those are very important and not taken lightly. So for them surround is gimmicky and hard to really get into or appreciate because of how much it bothers them it's not natural almost all of the time. I think people like my rantz and myself have less rules that are systems need to adhere to for us to truly enjoy it. In otherwards if it sounds cool who cares how they did it. That doesn't mean I think I'm better for listening this way or even enjoying my system or music more then anyone else. It's just going outside the rules doesn't bother or annoy me where it may someone else! And if it did bother or annoy me then yes I would not like it either. So I don't think one can be convinced surround is awsome if there bothered by it. I would imagine very few of us would like something that we felt wasn't right or it bothered/anoyed us. I know I wouldn't. So surround isn't for everyone , big deal It's not the end of the world. Just hopefully theres enough of us out here who enjoy it to make it stay and improve it'self while stereo continues along also! HAPPY MUSIC FOR EVERYONE WHATEVER YOUR TASTE OR EXPACTATIONS! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2220 Registered: Dec-03 | OH YAH BY THE WAY TUBES/VALVES RULE! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2221 Registered: Dec-03 | ------------------ "Pleasing Harmonics" -------------- Humans have become accustomed with various types of sounds. Some we find pleasing, and some appear harsh and un-natural. This is because of harmonics. A simple explanation of harmonics is when a guitar sounds different from a piano. Both may have a few strings of the same length, but when hit, make completely different sounds. The shape, construction and materials of the object add different resonances and reflections which give it a specific sound. Electronics work the same way. Allow me to quote from Dave Gumienny's articles on the Phaze Audio web page. Technically, and Musically Speaking Music consists of musical tones or notes. A scale in its basic form has eight tones. The sound of an instrument consists of much more than single notes. Each note is a complex collection of a fundamental, overtones and harmonics. Let's break this down a little further. The basic sound characteristic of an instrument is determined by the strength of the first few harmonics. Each of the lower harmonics produces its own characteristic effect when it is dominant or it can modify the effect of another dominant harmonic if it is loud enough. In the simplest classification, the lower harmonics are divided into two groups. The odd harmonics (third and fifth) produce a "stopped" or "covered" sound. The even harmonics (second, fourth, and sixth) produce "choral" or "singing" sounds. It is generally accepted that tubes are musically superior audio devices because they produce a higher portion of even rather than odd-ordered harmonics. Transistors, on the other hand, tend to emphasize the odd-ordered harmonics. Even-ordered harmonics are musically related to a given frequency in terms of octaves, while odd-ordered harmonics are dissonant. A higher proportion of even-ordered harmonics more closely resemble the natural harmonies in music. A signal passing through a tube will be automatically altered in such a way as to be in sympathy with the normal characteristics of music. Thus, tube amplifiers are commonly called "musical" or "warm" sounding. The second and third harmonics are the most important. Musically the second is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible; yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The third is termed a musical twelfth. It produces a sound many musicians refer to as "blanketed". Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong third actually makes the tone softer. Adding a fifth to a strong third gives the sound a metallic quality that gets annoying as the music gets louder. A strong second with a strong third tends to open up the "covered" effect. Adding the fourth and the fifth to this gives the sound a more "open" quality. Higher harmonics, above the seventh, give the tone "edge" or "bite". Therefore too much edge can produce a raspy, slightly out-of-tune quality. Since the ear is very sensitive to the edge harmonics, controlling their volume is very important. The basic cause of the difference in tube and transistor sound is the weighing of harmonic distortion characteristics. Transistor amplifiers exhibit a strong component of third harmonic distortion producing a "covered" or restricted sound when driven hard. Alternatively a tube amplifier when overloaded generates a whole spectrum of harmonics. Particularly strong are the second, third, fourth, and fifth overtones which give a full-bodied "brassy" quality to the sound. Tubes sound louder and have a better signal-to-noise ratio because of the extra subjective headroom that transistor amplifiers do not have. Tubes get punch from their naturally brassy overload characteristics. The feeling of more bass response is directly related to the strong second and third harmonic components which reinforce the "natural" bass. In addition to these somewhat classical statements about tubes, B.K. Butler notes a lesser known but significant characteristic of tubes which also relates to their musical enhancement ability. This characteristic is the soft damping factor inherent in tube amplification which results in slight and pleasing deviations in both time domains and dynamics the key ingredients of musicality. This quality adds a psycho acoustic nature to the signal passing through a tube which the mind interprets as being spatially "expanded". The result is a "live" vs. a "canned" or "processed" sound. Therefore tubes enhance and improve the rather sterile nature of digitally-sourced and transistorised sound. For this reason, most professional musicians not only prefer to record and perform live with tube equipment, but they also favour tube amplification systems in their homes. There is perhaps no more qualified judges of sound than professional musicians, whose very livelihood directly depends on the quality of their sound. Psychco-acoustically speaking, musicians make more objective subjects than engineers. While they're terms may not be expressed in standard units, the musician's method of measuring "by ear" is extremely valid. Consider the possibility that the ear's response may be quite different than an oscilliscope's. Tube preamplifiers are still the equipment of choice in modern recording studios. "Tubes have more bass it actually sounds an octave lower", says one rock guitarist. "Transistor recordings are very clean but they lack the 'air' of a good tube recording", "With tubes there is a space between the instruments even when they play loud transistors make a lot of buzzing", say many recording engineers. A number of musicians comment that transistors add a lot of musically unrelated harmonics or white noise especially on attack transients. The result of this research has indicated two areas where vacuum-tube circuitry makes an audible difference in sound quality: recording studio microphone preamplifiers and power amplifiers driving speakers. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John - Yes, your answer can be considered correct. http://www.maximacar.com/system_design2.htm http://psbspeakers.com/FrequenciesOfMusic.html The problem is in the problem. And that no one else now cares. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 846 Registered: Dec-03 | "stereo has had it's special place in time that's well past." I'm a little worried about you my friend. It would appear that you are spending far too much time in the hot Australian sun, without a hat. But if what you say is true, I'm going to gather up all the old boxy Mac's and tubes that I can. Then I'm going to go back to my cave, listen to some glorious stereo music, and wait for the giant meteor to impact. Yep, that's what this old "Dino" is gonna do. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 677 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz - a big drum-roll for you and your versing, sir! And G-day! Rick - the meteor is really coming? Wow - I've waited SO LONG! Sigh. Away to spend $1,200 USD on car repairs - and to take Mer in for jury duty. One of life's lower days. . . The meteor is REALLY coming, Rick? About time. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 847 Registered: Dec-03 | ..............and watch some reruns of the FLINTSTONES! WILMA! Where are my new tubes? I really don't know the exact time Larry, you'll have to ask MyRantz. LOL! |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 81 Registered: Jan-05 | Larry, SM - OK - to disengage the Pro Logic on the Yammie in 7.1 mode I have to stop the player, turn on the TV, set up the menu, and then go into "multi-channel." Then I have to scroll down a list and select "stereo" instead of the Pro Logic II. It takes a huge amount of time, and then, once I decide to play a SACD, I've got to go back into the menu, and de-select "stereo," then scroll down and select "all." It's very frustrating, but just for the heck of it, I'll give it a trial run and see what happens. sorta like weight-lifting without weights. That's the thing about these new fangled formats. They lack the simple elegance of stereo. :>) |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 82 Registered: Jan-05 | MR and LR, And I always thought the idea of the sub was to take over from the mains speakers Before they reached their bottom end. OH, well. . . I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why (and what) my sub is missing. I tried to make sense of Asimo's numbers (thank, Asimo) but, unfortunately, they are numbers on a page to me. It occurred to me that I may have to get one of those testing cds/devices so I can correlate sounds to numbers. So, taking into account a very likely misunderstanding of the settings, please tell me what I'm missing in regards to my current speaker/sub settings: Spendors frequency response: 52 hz Spendors frequency range: +-6db @ 40hz REL Strata III - 53hz And, I'm still trying to understand how a sub can sound as musical as speakers if it is taking over frequencies from 100hz downward? I did come acrosss some additional tuning information from REL's site that was not in the owners manual that I will try if I get some time this week. Unfortunately, this weekend, I will be out of town for the 4 straight weekend so it could be next week before I have time. |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 83 Registered: Jan-05 | LR Still in awe of SM and Jan, with their sub crossovers set at 50 and 40, respectively. I tried mine at 40Hz and got so little out of it that I quickly reverted to 100 Hz. To each his/her own on this, I guess. Don't forget the room dynamics may be playing a role in this, too....I'm sorry, I hope it doesn't appear that I'm picking on you this a.m. <wink> Gotta go to work, now. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 848 Registered: Dec-03 | SM, You go girl! I could not have said it better. Look and scroll through a menu? Choose an option? What are we doing here? Are we listening to music or ordering a meal at a bistro? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 849 Registered: Dec-03 | Wow, tough room! I'm doing some of my best material here guys............................. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | And that's sad, Rick. If I could, I'd put one of those sideways smiley faces here so my post wouldn't be misunderstood. It's just another one of those things (like listening to surround) that when I try to do the task, I just can't manage to go there. SM & Larry - Please make note that my response to the question of 80Hz or 50Hz was based on the matter of making a "difference". The issue of making an improvement was not presented to the discussion. As we all know, improvements are often a matter of taste. "Difference" is the core issue of this thread. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 476 Registered: Feb-04 | John A. asks, "By the way, I wonder if we are not in danger of losing sight of the original question, here? Have we answered it to everyone's satisfaction? Or is no agreement possible? Is it a question to which there is no answer?" These are all good questions and I can only answer for myself. I think there's a place for both stereo and surround systems. I think certain music sounds better in stereo than in surround. Other types of music benefit from being heard on a surround system. I watch all movies with the surround system. Based on my discoveries so far, I've set up two separate systems: First, a two-channel system with near full-range speakers (absolutely no subwoofer) and tube/valve amplification (on order), cd player and turntable. After doing an A-B test playing sacds on a Denon universal player and cds on a CAL cd player, I actually prefer the sound of the cd player in my stereo system. Second, a surround system consisting of a sat/sub system (subwoofer is essential), multichannel solid state receiver, a universal disc player, cable box, and a high definition tv. I think I have it right for now, based on the kind of software I play on the stereo system and the kind I play on the surround system. But I'm sure my views will change as I re-evaluate my two systems after further listening. There will never be definitive answers to John A's questions. I think the answers will keep on changing. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 850 Registered: Dec-03 | I knew it would at least get a smile from you Jan. Thank you.........................I'll be over in a corner of the cave, waiting for the meteor. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 678 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - I sure wish you'd stop picking on me! Even though I'm old, feeble-minded and effete - give me a brake! (double grin) Might take a closer peek at the Spendor stats - I seriously doubt that the speakers slope down to 40 Hz - + - 6db. Minus 6db yes, but plus 6db seems out of the question. My issue with crossover is not that one is "better" than the other. It has to do with a speaker's output, efficiency and accuracy. If a speaker's bottom end while playing relatively "flat" is 50Hz, I personally wouldn't want to cross over to the sub at that frequency. I'd choose something a tad higher. As Jan and Kegger and probably others have pointed out, taking frequencies away from the mains and putting them onto the sub will put less strain on your receiver. So - I'm ready to call this whole thing quits. I'm crossing over at 100Hz now - may switch to 80, but not lower. And keep the sub on the line out, because I tried to hook up the sub with a bunch of old speaker wire, then switch (slowly!) back and forth. Couldn't hear any difference, except in overall volume. Period. Right now I'm more concerned about volume shifts coming off my DVD player - and nobody outside of this forum seems willing to answer me! Sigh. Thinking it MIGHT be the NAD, I put in both a call and e-mail to them. Nothing back yet. Yamaha hasn't answered - but today I'm calling one of their "authorized" repair facilities here in florida. We'll see. Rick, my caveman-friend: You are SO right! I'm getting sick and tired of all this button-pushing and knob-twirling. Thinking seriously of just setting up the darned stereo in 2-channel and leaving it that way! Grrrrrrrr. . . . . . Last night I told Mer that I seriously wished for my old mostly homemade MONO sound system! It sounded sweet and lovely - and all I had to worry about was the volume control - and keeping the LPs clean. Life was better then, sound-wise!!! Like our "modern" cars - nothing gets fixed anymore without computer hookups and Ph.D-wielding 14-year-olds with bad breath. Strobe discs on turntables, 6L6s burning bright in the night - and a "nice" speaker - preferably in the corner. Rick - wouldjah like some company in your cave? I've got wine, cheese, and some very nice summer sausage! (grin) Back to taxes. Need I say more?. . . . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 1917: The Russian Revolution begins with a wave of strikes and protests in Petrograd (St. Petersburg). 1987: Andy Warhol dies, New York City. 1989: In the apex of the Embarrassing Eighties, Bobby McFerron's "Don't Worry, Be Happy" wins the Grammy award for Song of the Year. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | I believe Nico never performed "Don't Worry, Be Happy". And, I still contend Warhol died of embarrassment over the '80's. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 851 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, Always room in the cave. The "Dogs" are welcome anytime. Just check your multi-channel stuff at the door. LOL! Talk about simplicity, my Jolida does not even have a remote control. I told my wife to think of it as my new exercise machine. Everytime a CD ends, I have to get up to change it. Built in exercise. I'm going to prepare a report to the AMA, that a non-remote tube amp will help you live longer. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 679 Registered: Oct-04 | Rick: Great idea! I've always thought that - contrary to popular medical opinion, the Great American waistline began to expand at the same time remote controls came on the market. Think on this - it's probably more "true" than one might imagine! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1426 Registered: Aug-04 | "If I could, I'd put one of those sideways smiley faces here so my post wouldn't be misunderstood. It's just another one of those things (like listening to surround) that when I try to do the task, I just can't manage to go there." Change can be difficult. John A. asks, "By the way, I wonder if we are not in danger of losing sight of the original question, here? Have we answered it to everyone's satisfaction? Or is no agreement possible? Is it a question to which there is no answer?" How many times have these questions been asked and almost answered? How many more times will these questions be asked and almost answered? Some of you think stereo is superior. Some know otherwise. What's the point? "Just check your multi-channel stuff at the door" Funny - stereo + cave = surround Ugh! Oh! okay - no more smilies from me! |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 477 Registered: Feb-04 | These questions aren't relevant if one is entrenched in one's positions regarding stereo and multi-channel. However, if one is searching to get the most out of each format, there may be relevance to asking these questions. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 852 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Put on a hat, Please! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 218 Registered: Dec-03 | Can an artist create/record a modern multi-track recording that is engineered to be played in 5.1?...yes...will it sound right?...yes. Can somebody else (other than original artist/engineer)take a mono, 4, 8, 16,...track recording and engineer it for 5.1?...yes...will it sound right?...not what I have heard. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Change can be difficult. Most especially when there is no benefit. Some of you think stereo is superior. Some know otherwise. We know mono is where the action is at. ... there may be relevance to asking these questions. ... there may be redundancy to asking these questions. Can somebody else (other than original artist/engineer)take a mono, 4, 8, 16,...track recording and engineer it for 5.1?...yes...will it sound right? Are you promising me there won't be a surround version of "Kind of Blue"? Or are you telling me there will be; it will just sound like all the other surround discs? okay - no more smilies from me! Oh, come on. ... now commmmme oooooon. Jus' a widdle smilie. Jus'a widdle biddy smilie. Come on, give it a litle try, come on, that's it, you almost have it ... Curling your lip and snarling doesn't count as a smilie. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1427 Registered: Aug-04 | Mr James, "Can somebody else (other than original artist/engineer)take a mono, 4, 8, 16,...track recording and engineer it for 5.1?...yes...will it sound right?...not what I have heard." What have you heard? Some sound right, some don't! What is not right to you may be right for others. Dogs, The whole point of this thread is based on opinion and that is why, contrary to what some may believe, there are no winners and no losers - well, except for those that don't hear what I am hearing. Sorry, no smiley as promised, so take my comment as you will. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1428 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan Crossed posts - fyi there is a surround version of "Kind Of Blue" - and there was no point in creating such a version with what they had to work with - yes, in this instance I believe stereo is better. We know mono is where the action is at? What - mononucleosis? Get real! No smile. I can't put up with the taunting. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1429 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, I'd wear a hat if I could decide which one I should be wearing today. While we are on the subject, it may be time to change your loincloth. Wilma said something to Betty, Betty told Barney, Barney told Fred - and you know what a mouth Fred has! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 219 Registered: Dec-03 | How many movies are better than the book they were adapted from? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 853 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Fair enough. Which one should I wear, the Saber Tooth Tiger or the Wooly Mammoth fur? Remember, it's cold up here. A cold draft could be fatal. LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 220 Registered: Dec-03 | How well did New Coke do? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1431 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry Have you received any info regarding your drop-out problems? "Thinking it MIGHT be the NAD" If you are getting the problems playing cd's throught the analogue outs of the Yamaha but not with SACD's then I can't see the problem being with the NAD. All the reciever is doing is amplifying the info going into it's analogue inputs - it is doing no processing, the dvd player is. (Correct me if I'm wrong here anyone) In this case the NAD doesn't distinguish what format is playing, it just knows to push the signals through and pump out the sound, so I think the problem has to be at the origin of the signals. IMHO of course. Rick In answer to your last question: put it this way - you don't need any brass do-dahs for knockers on a cave door! John A In response to your questions regarding this thread started by Jan and yourself, I did not intend any disrespect with my tougue in cheek comments - only that the question has been answered many times: No, Jan is not the only one who thinks listening in stereo is best. Others have agreed. You have also agreed, then changed your mind, then changed your mind, then changed your mind. So I am left to wonder: was the question for the old dogs or were you really asking yourself. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more! My opinion is that if one has the choice, always listen to the stereo recordings prior to your hi-res surround recordings, that way you'll enjoy them much more. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rantz, Sem, Larry - How are the relatives, friends and others doing? I've been dancing nekked in the light of the full moon for their benefit. (Well, some for the benefit of the old guy next door who is always peeking out his window to see what's going on in my yard. But, when he asked, I told him is was for you guys. I asked if he knew where I could obtain an all white chicken as they were the best to swing in circles over my head. I haven't seen him for a few days.) |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 1836: The siege of the Alamo begins. 1965: Film comedian Stan Laurel dies. 1971: Lt. William Calley confesses he directed a mass execution of South Vietnamese civilians at My Lai, Viet Nam. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1432 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan, Thanks for asking - my father is going very well. He drove his car yesterday for the first time since his fall - he made a soft bridge for his glasses so he could wear them over his still healing nose. I hope Sem's FIL and Larry's friend are doing well also. Thanks for the info on how to get rid of neighbours. BTW, what does go on in your yard? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1433 Registered: Aug-04 | Well, yesterday I bought some new wire for the rear 601's (around 12-14 guage -flat braided OFC and was sell-out stock below half price). I bi-wired them using the existing 18 guage and I don't know I can hear any difference this time (as I haven't listened to them standing alone), but what I do know is that the sound our system is putting out now has never been sweeter - like angels p . . . doesn't matter. It seems the JBLs3611's were definitely the flies among the ointment (and I didn't realise the extent), their highs were not natural and their lower end (though cut off at 80hz) just didn't relay the more open, full-bodied sound the 601's do. What has also been revealed even more resolutely is that the JBL XTI60's mains are very well timbre matched to the 600 series B&W's (rears and centre). With 25 mm alloy or titanium dome tweeters, both are capable of very high frequencies though we have found them not even slightly fatiguing in fact they all seem very accurate, detailed and importantly, similar. Mrs Rantz agrees we now have it right - and she swears (on her own recognicences) that good hi-res surround recordings rule - at least they do in our household. Now ya don't wanna argue with her! So for us - that's it for our system (for a long while). We seem to have found what we were seeking and if it's not our ears that have made up our minds, then it's certainly the money we've spent. But hey - we only live once. Don't we? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Ask the buddhist. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 856 Registered: Dec-03 | A couple of human sacrifices and the neighbors get all freaked out. The white chicken thing.......nice touch! Don't we? You'll be back. On which plane of consciousness, is up to you. Glad to hear Dad is doing well. And no, you never want to argue with a woman. The first thing they want to throw at you is truth and logic, and there isn't a man I know that can deal with that. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1435 Registered: Aug-04 | "You'll be back. On which plane of consciousness, is up to you." I might try that big new Airbus if it tests out okay. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 858 Registered: Dec-03 | LOL! Save me a seat............... |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | One of my best friends when I was young, not necessarily growing up, wanted to be a fire engine. Brightly colored, loud and fast. He never made it, instead settling for a mundane existence as a chemical plant manager. He would have made a good fire engine though. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1436 Registered: Aug-04 | There is a strong belief that reincarnation is a second chance for a vast improvement. I wonder if hypnotic regression might prove my SR-7300 was an old Mac stereo tube amp in a past life. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 423 Registered: Mar-04 | Wow, thanks. Looks like the nekked dancing is working. Imagine that. My FiL is, in the words of Peter Cetera, feeling stronger every day. Still quite sore - to be expected though. The fluid in the lungs did turn out to be pnuemonia but its responding quite well to the meds. The hospital expects to toss him out by early next week at the latest. I see you're still tossing the stereo vs. surround debate around and I fully expect it to continue throughout the coming months. Just play nice kids.  |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1437 Registered: Aug-04 | Sem, That's great news. He must a tough old guy (respectfully) as I said: they don't make 'em like they used to. Stereo vs surround - There is that title - "The Song Remains The Same" - and so it should, but its sound can actually be better according to ones equipment/format preferences. And so on it goes . . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "I wonder if hypnotic regression might prove my SR-7300 was an old Mac stereo tube amp in a past life." The way I understand it, each life is supposed to be better than the last, so the answer would be no, it wasn't. (OK, now you can put one of those smilie thingies here.) |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "I wonder if hypnotic regression might prove my SR-7300 was an old Mac stereo tube amp in a past life." The way I understand it works, each life is supposed to be better than the last. So the answer would be, no, it wasn't. (OK, now you can put one of those smilie thingies here.) |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Damn these buttons!!! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2225 Registered: Dec-03 | Good job butterfingers! lol Hey Jan threres a few new posts on tube talk! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2834 Registered: Dec-03 | "So I am left to wonder: was the question for the old dogs or were you really asking yourself. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more! " Both. Know what I mean, squire? I think the Arts Music Handel Messiah proves the point about surround. But who knows. My player will not give me the 96/24 stereo track for comparison. But, to repeat, the original performance, in Dublin, was in surround, as have been all subsequent ones. Thanks, MR. Thanks, all. I am have taken no offence; just busy. Seems I have to think seriously about changing my listening room. It is no good going on arguing from different premises. I agree, Sem, we have not nailed this stereo vs surround question, yet. The last ball does not seem to come back from J.V. I doubt the back yard is a squash court. Jan...? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1438 Registered: Aug-04 | I took the Sr-7300 to a regression hypnotherapist who took her back as far as 2002 when she was known as Melissa McIntosh, a stereo integrated tube amp. She actually committed suicide as she had become depressed with a life of only two channels. Left, right, left, right, left, right with no end in sight. Then to make matters worse her master kept trying different tubes and she just lost the capacity to cope with all the fondling to encourage her to make the right sounds. But it seemed she could never please him. So she finally pulled the plug and went to the big auditorium in the sky. She met the God of Audio and he suggested a happy new life as a Marantz A/V surround receiver. She is now happy with her new master whom she can trust not to fool around with her private parts. And why would I want to when she sounds so good when I turn her on? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 859 Registered: Dec-03 | ............................oh boy................ |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 860 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, You don't have a videotape of that little dance, do you? |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 424 Registered: Mar-04 | Rick, is that something you'd really like to see? I would imagine, if you must, its something best viewed under the cover of moonlight...from afar. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 861 Registered: Dec-03 | Quite on the contrary, my dear Sem, that is one performance, I would pay to see.......LOL! Glad to hear your FIL is feeling better. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rantz - re; Melissa: Most obviously a confused soul and a pretender. McIntoshes have always been a proud bloodline, not prone to a loss of capacitance. If you know what I mean, and I think you do. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Never been a McIntosh that done themself in. And to think that this poor lost entity is now suffering from multiple channel personality disorder is ... well, honestly, quite sad. 5.1, 7.2, 4.0, 2.0 (1.0? - nope), Pro Logical, not Pro Logical, discrete, not discrete, cinema, music, centered, not centered, the dreaded low frequency effect. What a sorry situation this little amp has gotten into. A life of depravity. As to anyone fiddling with her parts and turning her on - I got nothing the forum will let me post. Rick - I tried taping this once for the, um, authorities (if you know what I mean, and I think you do) but so many of the little folks who take part in these, uh, affairs don't show up on the tape. Odd really, they are seldom shy about coming out when the full moon comes around. "The last ball does not seem to come back from J.V. I doubt the back yard is a squash court. Jan...?" John? As far as I know, New Coke was a bust. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 1821: Mexico declares independence from Spain. 1848: Revolution of 1848 begins in France, overthrowing French monarchy and inspiring revolts across Europe. 1956: In response to Alan Freed's rock and roll menace, police in Cleveland, Ohio invoke a 1931 ordinance barring people under the age of 18 from dancing in public unless accompanied by an adult. 1991: U.S. troops begin land invasion of Kuwait and Iraq. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 862 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Say no more, and we will speak no more of this............................ |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2836 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Hilarious. Applause. Melissa was never one to hide her light under a bushel. But don't forget she's still a lady, underneath, and needs to be told how well she looks - and performs. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1439 Registered: Aug-04 | John A That's the thing - she doesn't need to be told. We just leave her alone and she's content to keep singing ever so sweetly - not like in her previous life where she was constantly tweaked and twiddled with and longed to have her tubes tied. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1440 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry Where are you - everything okay? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1441 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan MCP isn't a disorder - that's just propaganda put out by that old SOB (Stereo Or Bust) Association. Multiple Channel Personality has evolved to fill the missing links in the musical chain. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Oh, OK. (Yeah, right, and I'm peter pan.) |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1442 Registered: Aug-04 | Well I'll be - no wonder you used the pseudonym J. Vigne - most people would have thought you were kidding if you went by your real name - bet you copped a good ribbing at school Peter. I'll let you in on a little secret - I banana plugged the receiver connections for the 601's so I could (on occassion) listen to them in s-t-e-r-e-o. No, I'm not taking a retro step - just an alternative for when listening from the dining table so some poor unfortunate guest doesn't have a main speaker booming in his/her ear while trying to get down stewed sheep's tongue or something. Here's our music listening set up as of now: From the bar - stereo through main speakers (can play direct using full range of the XTI-60 speakers or with the sub from 80hz down. From the dining table - stereo through the rear 601's using full range or with the sub from 80hz down. From our lounge sofa (aka- the loooove nest) - the exuberant, intoxicating, liquid smooth honey dripping hi res surround music and surround DD or DTS movies. So there you go Mr Pan - we don't dismiss stereo, it has it place in our home - it just don't win any ribbons. [slight semblance of a grin] |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "we don't dismiss stereo, it has it place in our home - it just don't win any ribbons." I understand, and I'm sorry. You have my sympathy. We all have our crosses to bear. But fear not. I shall dance nekked tonight for your little Melissa. You can expect her to be getting better soon. (Anyone around here seen an all white chicken? It was here not that long ago.) |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2229 Registered: Dec-03 | "(Anyone around here seen an all white chicken? It was here not that long ago.)" No larry hasn't been here all day! :-) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sorry lar I had to do it! please forgive me! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1443 Registered: Aug-04 | Ah'd be tellin' you bud ah'm afraid you be cuttin' off its 'ead when you're done wid da voodoo mon. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 865 Registered: Dec-03 | The neighbors be damned Jan, Go for it! Yes, where is Larry? And what is he up to? Left on his own he could soon have that subwoofer wired to his toaster. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2838 Registered: Dec-03 | [Grin]. It seems to me that Melissa might be missing the attention, and therefore does not, now, give of her best. I am going to say this for third time: the original performance is sound that comes to you from all around. Fact. Unless, that is, you listen in a field, aerodrome etc, or while free-fall parachuting or similar. [Which is when the Doppler effect might come in, Jan (referring to your comment many posts ago). Apart from that, I cannot see where the Doppler has any effect in home audio, unless you swing your speakers around your head while they are playing.] Perhaps stereo is to surround as a flat movie screen is to an IMAX cinema. No, there would not be much point in an IMAX version of that wonderful movie "Casablanca". But as regards the sense of "being there"... well, it seems obvious. So, we have finally settled the question. Surround wins. Even for music. Motion carried? The hammer is raised.... Larry, you know, do not have to pay a fortune for a toaster power-cord. Ordinary, everyday speaker cable will often do the job. Also, some of these tubes amps will double as electric toasters, too, surely? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 867 Registered: Dec-03 | Surround wins? Wins what? The techno-hardware wars? At the expense of the music? Just my opinion, again. I only take a defensive posture when someone wants to declare stereo dead. But in the spirit of ending this never ending debate, OK you win. Surround wins. Motion carried. Game, set, and match. Thread over......................................... Larry, I like my toast medium, please. LOL! |
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