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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 117 Registered: Jan-05 | I have just obtained a pair of Atacama Nexus 5 stands which I am using with a pair of B&W DM602 S3's I have used for many years a pair of open framed Target stands, which once the spikes were set and tightened provided what felt like an extrememly rigid platform. The Atacamas have a very stabe base, but the columns are quite flexible, to the point where the speakers easily rock back and forth when touched (such as when removing or replaing the grilles). Now, my undersstanding is that ideally the speakers will be positionerd as rigidly in space as possible, so that the drive units will move air and not push the cabinet backwards and forwards (Newtons 3rd law etc). Yet the Atacamas sound much clearer, in both bass and treble areas. I am fascinated as to why this should be so. |
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Bronze Member Username: TevoChicago, IL USA Post Number: 16 Registered: Feb-05 | Stand colunns as flexible as you describe does seem counterproductive according to convention... Are the new stands the same height as the old ones? With some bookshelf speakers, stand height can have a significant impact. However, this is typically limited to treble. I would be interested in hearing what other posters have to say about this... |
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Silver Member Username: VarneyBirminghamEngland, UK Post Number: 375 Registered: Sep-04 | It's always possible, that since the Nexus 5 were designed with mass loading in mind, that this would be the reason they flex while unloaded. I presume your old triangulate stands were not mass-loadable types? Perhaps also a smaller overall tube section, but made with thicker material, I suspect? Mass loading might bring in the rigidity which Atacama boast. You do at least have the advantage that any old sand, for instance will do - as long as it's dry, whereas I'm limited to silica sand and the like if I were to load my floor cabinets. As to why they sound so good even though they flex, no idea, other than perhaps the height and angle they poise the speaker at? V |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 126 Registered: Jan-05 | Angle and height remain unchanged. Yes the original stands are very light (no mass loading). I have used very small blobs of blu-tak between the stand and the cabinets - in view of Jan's comments re NAD tweaks I guess that they are now better coupled to drain away unwanted resonance. The difference in sound quality is really quite marked, mainly in the upper mid and treble which is better defined; louder yet smoother, and much more dynamic. Crash cymbals starting to sound as if they are actually made of metal.. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 340 Registered: Sep-04 | Convert, Once the stand is setup so it doesn't rock, and you place a small (pea-sized) blob of blutack at each corner of the stand's top-plate, the speaker should not rock (physically, that is). The way to get it right is to start with the base, stop it rocking trying to keep it as low as possible. Then use a spirit level to level up the standside to side and front to back. It should not rock. Place the blutak and then speaker on top - it still shouldn't rock. If it does, something's not quite right (the stands could be 'off'). Nexus stands are quite light by today's standards. I'd have thought something like the Partington Trophy would be a better design for a large standmount like the 602. That said, I don't have much experience with that speaker. But you definitely want them to stop rocking. Not good, for the reasons you gave above. Regards, Frank. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | If this is actually how the stand is designed, this might warrant a call to the manufacturer for an explanation. It does seem to go against current fashion. But then, fashions change. |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 135 Registered: Jan-05 | Just to clarify, rock is probably not the most appropriate description. Wobble is a better description. The pillars are mass loaded, so oits not that. The bases are more stable than the old stands. The flex is in the pillar, as in normal elastic "spring". Now, these are ot some cheap obscure stands that we talking about: The Atacama nexus range are probably the most common on the planet (mine are the 50cm high version which are the shortest). I will check that all of the bolts are really tight, but they seemed ok when I got them. I think it would be obvious if they were loose, so I will be surprised if this were the problem. So, it would seem that this "instability" is inherent in the design. There must be other owners of these stands that can share their experience...? |
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Silver Member Username: VarneyBirminghamEngland, UK Post Number: 388 Registered: Sep-04 | I'm actually a little disapointed with the stability level of my Gale floorstanders actually. They came with a lovely spike kit, which places them outriding to the cabinet, rather than directly on the bottom. Very good value for money, these - but with everything in life, experience is the tutor, is it not? I'm begining to rethink my taste for floorstanders these days - shame I can't rectify this now the deed is done, but I can live with it, and better after a few weighting tricks applied to bottom or top. You see I have a concrete floor in my living room - renders spikes useless and possibly blunt if you pushed hard enough! Great for vinyl parties, when there are enthusiastic feet around though! I ended up cutting two nice plinths out of softwood to give them some bite. Still a terrible 'wobble' factor and the cat's had 'em over once already.... Bleeder! V |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2811 Registered: Dec-03 | ca, The Target stands can be filled. I have a pair and they used to ring before I filled them. I used cat litter, which was to hand, but sand or even lead shot would probably be better. That could explain why the new stands give a better sound even of they are more flexible. |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 140 Registered: Jan-05 | Thanks John. I didnt realise the taregt stands could be filled since there are no openings (bolted or otherwise). The tope plate is welded to the four corner legs, which in turn are welded to the horizontal cross bar base. (rather like a bar stool foot rest). The spikes are attached directly to this frame base. the design is very different from current thinking. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Not all Target stands have been made fillable. Those that were often had the holes for filling located on the bottom rails. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2812 Registered: Dec-03 | ca, Yes, J.V. has a point, we could be talking about different stands. I do not have mine with me, right now. But I remember having to pour the stuff in slowly and patiently, through a small hole at the base of the upside-down stand, with a funnel. And I had to unbolt a plate to expose the hole. That was the main strut filled. Then I had to take a plastic end-stop out of a rectangular-cross-section bottom frame, into which the spike bolts are tapped, in order to get the litter in there. |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 144 Registered: Jan-05 | The Target stands I have are seemingly common id ebay is a marker of popularity: like this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14997%26item%3D57519156 31%26&ssPageName=WD2V except that they have a flat top, and there is a third leg at the front of the stands. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 347 Registered: Sep-04 | I know the Nexus 5 quite well. It is meant to have a straight top plate and is not meant to flex. Provided the stand is setup correctly, there should be no wobble and no movement from the speaker when set in place. The 602 is a bit big for the Nexus model in my view - not a sympathetic match, sorry. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 139 Registered: Dec-03 | I build my own sand-fillable stands but if I were to go out and buy a pair, I'd get these. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=240-744&DID=7 |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 140 Registered: Dec-03 | Oops. Just noticed you're in the UK. Sorry for the off shore product reference but perhaps for those in the Colonies this would be a good choice for large monitors. |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 152 Registered: Jan-05 | Tim they look a well thought design. Frank, I reached similar conclusion, but I cannot afford a pair of partington stands which are probably what the 602's need. The nexus's are assembled fine, it appears the overall column stiffness is not particularly high. Bear in mind, the resonace of this wobble is of the order of 1-2Hz, which is way below the speaker and audible threshold. Ironically, this might act as a reasonable high pass mechanical filter, which would mean less resonance (and consequently better damping) at higher audible frequencies. |
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New member Username: GyulaPost Number: 4 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi there! Would somebody please give me a piece of advice on the height of the stands I should use with my B&W DM 602 S3. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2835 Registered: Dec-03 | The first thing a stand should do is raise the speaker so that the listener's ears are on the axis of the tweeter. Usually this means the same height for the ears and the tweeter. |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 161 Registered: Jan-05 | So unless you are 8 ft tall, or are sitting in a barstool to listen to your system, then 50cm stands are about ideal for the 602's. Atacama 5 are just that height. Any lower, and the bass driver is too close to the floor. |
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edster922 Unregistered guest | szekeres, Go to accessories4less.com and do a search for standesign speaker stands. These are beautiful, very stable, and very affordable. Also sand-fillable. I find that having the tweeters at or above ear level is ideal, having them below ear level is very bad. It also depends on the height of your ceiling; in my experience the top of the speaker should be at least 1/3 of the height of the room so if your room has vaulted ceilings I'd add some extra height to them. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 175 Registered: Dec-03 | http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=227 |