My T 773 has turned on me.
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004 | Since I last posted my 773 has gone completely downhill. When switching inputs I heard a loud pop and all functions of the unit quit including master volume control and all buttons on the unit itself. It did nothing in reaction to remote commands as well. I powered off the unit and everything was back except master volume control on the 773 faceplate would not respond. Powered down again and everything including master volume control returned. About an hour later I put "Intolerable Cruelty" in and when I chose the DTS soundtrack a LOUD pop came from all speakers and the unit again froze me out of doing ANYTHING. Only this time now it won't go into standby. I push the front standby button repeatedly and nothing. I now power off using the main power button on the rear of the unit. All functions have returned again, for the moment. What's even stranger is the front display said DTS the entire time this happened. I must admit to being VERY concerned at this point. The stunning sound the unit is able to provide not withstanding, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake. I really know nothing about NAD and went with them based on what people have said here and elsewhere about their products. Having listened to the unit for awhile, I'm sold on it's sonics, but I'm seriously doubting NAD's Quality Control. I'm VERY AFRAID my trip to the dealer tomorrow has turned into a "return the unit" thing rather than a testing session. VERY SAD at the moment. Very sad. Don't know what to think, or do |
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 4 Registered: 02-2004 | I call myself "air force one", but right now, I feel like an old rusty bi-plane. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 28 Registered: 01-2004 | AF1...BUMMER! Keep me posted on the outcome. I've only had my T773 1 week and so far I have no complaints. The sound is truely awesome but no matter how good the sound you need to be functional. Good luck. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sjordan872Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2004 | Regardless of the sound, any product that costs as much as NAD and has such problems is just not a good buy IMO. If I had a similar experience, regardless of the sound, I would return my receiver and get another brand just so NAD wouldn't get my business! I'd also like to charge them for all my time, but that's not happening. I'm not bashing NAD (or maybe I am), just any manufacturer that brings a product to market without extensive testing. Unfortunately that's the world we live in these days. I think too many peolople read all the good threads about cerain receives on here and blindly follow the pack. You have to remember that these are just people's opinions. Whatever sounds good, fits within your needs and budget, and works properly should be all the criteria one needs for choosing a receiver or anything else for that matter. Sorry if I sound like a preacher, but I get pretty fired up when a company charges a ton of $ for something that doesn't work!! |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 187 Registered: 12-2003 | I find that sometimes when there is an electric anomaly in a preamp or receiver (or other components), pull out the plug for a couple of minutes. Then plug it back in and start up. This often resets the memory ROM and removes whatever glitch is causing the problem. If this doesn't work you re-check your connections. And when that doesn't work you call, ship, or take the unit back to the dealership. I don't know what the percentage of problems there are with NAD compared with a lot of other receivers. One sometimes sees those graphs in Consumer Reports on inexpensive receivers, but not on NAD's and Pioneer Elites, and many others. I don't know if there is a location that posts this information. But if the company has a good service department and promptly fixes the problem I normally am ultimately pleased, if not momentarily annoyed. |
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Bronze Member Username: Gatt767Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2004 | Blazer, one must not generalise! Within my setup I have had 3 receivers from NAD, a T750, T751 and a T762 and none of them gave a hint of prob. If a unit is faulty, and its under warranty just return it to the vendor and opt for a replacement and that's it. Yes you have to spend time re going back to the vendor etc. etc., but I can guarantee to you that no manufacturer ever have produced a complex product and haven't had any returns! What I can say about NAD is that their customer care/support is very good |
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 6 Registered: 02-2004 | Just got back from the dealer and all buzz's and hums were re-created through their setup and was compared to other NAD amps and processors ALL of which were DEAD SILENT. So if you get one of these NAD receivers making ANY hiss, white noise, pink noise, or buzz and I mean ANY return it as it's not normal. I know people have posted that "a little" white noise is all right and it's not. I have the proof, I just listened to a SILENT NAD amp processor combo. NO WHITE NOISE AT ALL!!! Nor buzz, nor hum. Robert, I kind of had to laugh at your "NAD cutomer care/support is very good" comment. With 5 phone calls not returned and 7 e-mails left unanswered I can safely say their support sucks. I'm still going to give their products a shot however based on the sound. Saying their support is good is a joke. I CHALLENGE you to send an e-mail and get a response. Go ahead call their support line, you'll be told to "call your dealer". If I was basing this purchase on customer care, I'd be running from NAD like the plague. Hopefully I'll get a working unit, and if I never have to talk to NAD again, it'll be too soon. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 35 Registered: 01-2004 | AF1, Are they replacing your defective unit, fixing it under warranty or what? Just curious. What a bummer...I know how disappointing and frustrating this must be. Keep us posted. When you talk about NO NOISE WHATSOEVER, did you put your ear right up to the speaker and not hear anything, NO noise at all? |
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New member Username: ThearthurclonePost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | afo...did you get a replacement unit? i wonder if the nad seperates (processor/amp) will have a lower noise floor than any receiver. considering there is a lot more chance for cross talk and interference within a receiver. note: i'm not stating that your unit wasn't faulty...i'm just wondering if some slight white noise that some hear with their t7x3 rcvrs is unavoidable good luck with getting a good working unit |
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Bronze Member Username: Gatt767Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2004 | Air Force One, my experience with both NAD technical support and the local agent are both good. As regards to NAD, whenever I have sent an E-mail, or posted a message within there guest book on NADs homepage, they have always answered back within a day or two with a very detailed description of my request. The email address is as follows: webmaster@nadelectronics.com and address it to the following person: Karen Pritchard To tell you the truth I have just checked my E-mail account and have received a reply on a query, which I have sent about a day ago! Hope this works |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 190 Registered: 12-2003 | I doubt it is a problem of receiver versus separates. It is obviously a quality control problem. The NAD subcontractor that builds their units might be overwhelmed and is not testing each unit sufficiently to make sure the "VALUED CUSTOMER" is getting a top quality product. It could be they don't test all the chipsets or are not careful enough in isolating the circuitry on a consistent basis and then thoroughly testing each unit to make sure it operates properly. I guess when the problem and costs of fixing the receivers exceeds the costs of testing adequately all the receivers, they will do sufficient testing before it reaches the consumer. Until then, just make sure you buy from an authorized dealer and don't take a cheaper product with no warranty. Better to risk a little aggravation in returning a receiver than a risk a lot of aggravation in losing your investment entirely. That said, I wouldn't nessarily let that problem stop me from buying their receivers. Because when they are working properly they are some of the best receivers at and even above their price points. |
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 | JDG, Yes, ear to speaker TOTALLY SILENT. I mean NO white or pink noise AT ALL, NONE. They are going to send for another and test it before I come get it. If that unit acts the same I'm going to move up to the amp processor combo we tested. It's another 1300 dollars but at least I know for a fact it's silent, even with an ear pressed to the speaker. thearthurclone, you may be right, the processor amp combo may just have a lower noise floor. If so, it's MUCH lower. If that's why that setup is quieter, then that's the way I'm going to go. 1300 dollars for that kind of silence during quiet scenes is a small price to pay. Robert,who knows. The link you posted is the e-mail address I've been using. Thanks for the name though it may help. Like I said though, the sound of their stuff is enough to keep around so I'm not really knocking them other than to say I spent 1800 dollars only a week ago and you'd think they would at least act somewhat concerned when I'm having a problem. But, just because this is my experience, it doesn't mean it's common. Sorry for jumpin on ya. I'm grouchy today.  |
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 8 Registered: 02-2004 | Gregory, I agree. The sound NAD produces is enough to keep me around. If it wasn't for the GREAT sonics I'd be gone. |
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Bronze Member Username: Gatt767Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2004 | Air force one, I don't agree that to get a quite unit you have to spend 1300 dollars and opt for the T163 and the T973. Do remember that the T163 (the processor)is quite similar to the digital section of the T773. If the next T773, which is NAds current top dog within the receivers range is faulty I would go for another brand! The bad thing is that NAD shouldn't be seen as a producer of faulty products. Within my current setup I have a T531 DVD plyr, a C540 CD plyr and a T762 and till now all of them gave good service! |
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 9 Registered: 02-2004 | I really am hooked on the sound though. It's not like the extra money would be a waste. More power, more headroom, SILENCE when called for, and being seperates, hopefully even better sonics. Don't ya think? I'll have to admit, my dealer was honest in saying I shouldn't have to spend more money. He said I've spent what's necessary to get what I'm wanting. Let's hope NAD agrees! |
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New member Username: JoshtPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Air Force One, I am really sorry to hear of your trouble. I hope you can get it resolved without too much problem. If you stay with your NAD I really hope it performs well for you. <-- start rant I never say a word on here but just have to speak up. Has anyone noticed that Hawk never joins these discussions when a NAD product has freaked out? NAD seems to have more quality issues than any other brand on eCoustics. In any case, why does Hawk keep recommending this product to everyone, in every budget range, for every type of music and HT, including poor college kids... when NAD has such a tremendous failure rate? One size does not fit all, but you would swear NAD is the answer to every question on this board. If they were cheap and had quality issues, no one cares. When they charge a PREMIUM and suck this bad, I can't believe honest people can recommend them to unknowing visitors who come here for advice. I've heard some NAD products and they sounded very nice, but I would never drop big dollars on NAD or ANY brand that does not give you piece of mind. Wondering if your receiver is going to freak out, buzz, hum, quit, or explode every time you turn it on is nothing I ever want to experience. I went to Google and Lycos and typed in "problem with NAD" and got a million hits. Many from THIS board. Not good for a premium brand and is something I would expect from a low-line Sony or even Apex. If I knew 20 people who owned an Infinity car like mine, and 10 of them went bad, would I keep recommending that car to others? Hell_no. Can't any respectable member of this board come out and say that they will stop recommending this brand until they get there quality issues resolved? Once they solve it they will be quickly rise back up as a nice peice of gear. <-- end rant |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 189 Registered: 12-2003 | AIR FORCE ONE, NAD will get you sorted out, on previous experience. It sounds to me like the software issue that plagued some T752s. I heard from AudioNord that NAD outsourced the program, and then took it back when they discovered all the problems it caused. As regards your memorable name, don't forget it was the crop-duster, Russell Cass, who saved the World in Independence Day. In the original footage, he did it in his biplane. What a great film. Take it easy. I'll be fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 65 Registered: 12-2003 | Josh T: You have some valid points and some of this has been rehashed here many times. NAD has been the subject of many complaining posts including myself even though I am the happy owner of a T763 unit. There are also complaints about other units. Part of the deal is that there is a core group who ardently recommend NAD and many posters who rebel against the core group. Ultimately it is amusing as this cycle happens again and again. I think there is cause to be concerned about NAD as there are several posters including myself who have had troubles even though we express high opinions for the unit. I stayed with it because I got a great deal and I trusted my dealer. Ultimately, NAD corrected the situation and even upgraded my unit. I was concerned too about the reported problems. I do think there are too many reported problems. One of the reasons I stuck with it is that the receiver sounds great. I don't know why but this reminds me of a movie: "A New Leaf" with Walter Matthau and Elaine May. Matthau played a socialite who drove a Ferrari which was perpetually in the shop with the mechanic scolding Walter Matthau's character for driving it less than 100 mph. Basically, one of the good things about a forum is to hear from different sides and different opinions. There are many happy owners of NADs and there are many who have posted problems. The buyer is warned and makes an informed decision. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 28 Registered: 12-2003 | Josh, I suspect that Hawk -- and most people -- acknowledge that sometimes manufacturers let go of some "bad apples" but assume that these manufacturers will adequately address any quality issues, if and when they arise. Moreover, Hawk may very well be recommending a product based upon his own positive experiences with it, while others may recommend against it because of their own not-so-positive experiences. In any event, it's certainly not his fault if a brand he has come to trust and recommend starts turning out bad product, and I'm sure he's not knowingly recommending products that he suspects will suffer from such quality issues. |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 191 Registered: 12-2003 | I'm just glad that it's not H/K bashing time.  (just kidding) Every receiver mentioned on this forum has had one problem or another. My last THREE receivers all had varying problems. Kenwood: software. Sony (STR-DE995): those liars at Sony say it's 110Wx7 and it's NOT -- the poor thing couldn't drive my 5 speakers (including my Paradigms) in multi-channel mode. H/K: well... if you count the audio dropout when changing DSP formats (but ALL receivers do this). I agree that we should -- and most do -- continue to caution readers/reviewers about the quirks of each brand and the quality issues. This is what this board is great for. I still believe that all of the regular folks here (Bronze, Silver, Gold and are regular contributors) are giving their opinion along with caveats. NAD is probably overrecommended because it's the only brand in multiple price classes that can deliver the performance advertised. Your mileage may vary. I remember when Kenwood had a real bad batch and said that if anyone had a Serial No. less than 1000 on a particular model, it would fail. How would you like to have bought S/N 000999? We all hope that Sony starts putting in better power, H/K solves the heat/protect problems (seems like they have in newer firmware and models), NAD solves the hum, Yamaha not soft clipping too soon, and the list continues... |
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Bronze Member Username: Sjordan872Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2004 | Great stuff everyone. I didn't think I was opening Pandora's box with my comments though. Sorry if I offended anyone. That wasn't my intention. Happy Pres. Day. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 194 Registered: 12-2003 | Blazer---Don't worry. While NAD makes a number of excellent products, they do have a pernicious quality control problem. Maybe they haven't been able to keep up with too much success and the quality control division gets last attention. But unless 1/3 of the people on all the boards I ever read are liars with an agenda, NAD does seem to have a problem. That said, if I wanted one of their products--such as the T773--which is one of their products I would consider buying, I would make sure I bought it from a local dealer. It would not stop me. But I would try and get my local dealer to match a 20% off price (and most would) and that would give me considerable peace of mind. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 38 Registered: 01-2004 | "Moreover, Hawk may very well be recommending a product based upon his own positive experiences with it, while others may recommend against it because of their own not-so-positive experiences." Darryl hit the nail on the head. When I started this search which brought me here it was initially because of a bad problem with my Yamaha RX-V2400. A long story but that was a bad experience with a brand that most folks here would swear by. It fried the tweeter in both my Front and Center channel of my Paradigms and also the crossover in my Front. Got them fixed and it did it AGAIN. My dealer and I ruled out every other component in my system as the culprit until we got to the 2400. Part of the moral is you hear more bad things and problems people have with this that and the other than anything else on this forum so it can have a tendency to skew perspectives. Problems bring people here as much as anything. Now there have been a lot of posts about some NAD issues which I can't deny but nobody here can take these posts in and of themselves and quantify that NAD has an epidemic quality problem. I am not saying they don't have one...just that nobody can reasonably extrapolate a quantifiable conclusion based on threads of any forum. I was not considering NAD at first solely because I had read some bad threads about NAD. Then I went to my local delaer here who has owned his High End audio store for 31 years and he gave NAD nothing but praise. I know him and respect his integrity. Then the sound is what moved me to consider NAD. He also went on about how he used to be a Sony and Yamaha dealer back in the 70's and 80's then he saw what the Japanese companies were doing to go more mainstream with their audio to capture more of the market share which meant taking money out of their products and especially cheapening the power supplies which is the heart of an Amp/Receiver. This was his observation which he said is why he no longer carries their products. So is anybody going to take this and act on it. Please don't. Again, if I didn't know this guy and respect his opinion I probably wouldn't have even considered taking the NAD home to try it out. I hope I didn't make a mistake in all of this but for my 1st week as a NAD owner I couldn't be happier. If things turn south, you can bet you'll hear about it here first just like you did with the Yamaha 2400 I had. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 192 Registered: 12-2003 | JDG, That is very helpful, and agrees with everything I know from my own experience of NAD, my dealer, other brands, and other posts. From other posts on this forum, and from telephone conversation with representative in the technical department of my regional distributor, there were indeed acknowledged quality control issues with some T752 receivers, particularly as regards the DSP software and processor. NAD always responds directly to customers if approached, and if the dealer/distributor cannot put things right. BTW I have fixed my older T760, out of warranty, with detailed, free, technical advice from the NAD distributor (I had to pay a nominal sum for the service manual plus postage, fair enough). This is a standard of customer service I thought had gone years ago, and was, even then, associated only with small and proud independents. So a multinational can still have agents who bother to return telephone calls to one owner, with advice on electrolytic capacitors and so on, for a model now replaced. And I am not even in Canada. Full marks for customer service. I cannot imagine you get worse treatment with a current model, and one still under warranty. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 197 Registered: 12-2003 | Sony and Yamaha make some great product. From HDTV to Yamaha high end receivers. Let me clue you in---this dealer could no longer get protection from Sony and Yamaha on pricing and area distribution. That is why he sold other items. The big stores could kill him price-wise and when the internet came--that made things all the more worse for the audio salon dealer. My friend Roger who owns 2 audio salons in Wisconsin went a different route. He took advantage of the internet and now sells most of his product--from NAD. HK, etc over the internet. I remember years ago when other salon dealers complained about him selling POLK speakers on the phone out of his area. They pulled Polk on him and he has had a number of protected products pulled from his representation over the years. Particularly high end items---other salons hate it when they may have to cut their price because they aren't as good a businessman as he is. He involved the internet in his business. And that has saved him bigtime. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 194 Registered: 12-2003 | Gregory, I am sure you are right. You make a great point, and not many people know this. But the "salons", if good, offer an important service to customers, which is the ability to audition, and informed advice. Somehow they have to get paid for that. On occasion I admit that I have got good advice from a quality dealer, made my decision on the basis of it, and then purchased, for less, from a "pile 'em high, flog 'em cheap" dicsount warehouse. It seems OK to me that some brands will want their outlets to be restricted to dealers who give the customer care and support. I recently got about 40 minutes of dealer time looking at projectors. He was a good, honest guy, not pushy, no bull. He put on different movies in different screen formats, taught me you can best evaluate DLP "rainbow" effect if you put on subtitles (that is where the highest contrast is, usually) and I generally learned some things. And I gave some back, courtesy of this forum, mostly. He knew little about DVI and did not know the NAD T533 adds component video over the T532. Also, he hadn't been through all our debates on DVD-A and really had no clue about the format. But it was a good experience. Here is the crunch. His Toshiba MT100 I can get for approx 75 % of his price by mail order from Germany. Even worse, if I read the specs right (and they try hard to cover this, giving different units of measurement etc) it is EXACTLY the same unit as the InFocus X1, even cheaper (60 %), but only a mail order item anywhere, here, being addressed mostly to the "data projector" market. It is the salons which con you and are staffed by idiots for which I would show no mercy. But good ones are worth supporting. That is probably why NAD etc. take some care with dealerships, and what seems like price-fixing can be defended in terms of customer satisfaction. It is a tough one. By disposition I instinctively support free markets, as I suspect you do. But things aren't always so simple. When there are no dealers, only internet sales, will anyone really be better off? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkPost Number: 288 Registered: 12-2003 | Josh T: Actually, I have been very busy the last couple of days--hence I have not seen this discussion. I do have other things I need to do besides participate on this forum, after all, so suggesting I am AWOL on these threads is pretty lame. I am sorry that Air Force One is having a problem. As I am not a tchnician, and have never heard of this type of problem before, I have very little to contribute in the way of a solution. When I read the thread, the only thing I could think of was doing a whole system reset--I know it has solved problems experienced by owners of other brand receivers who developed these sudden anomolies. I will say that I think it ball is now in the dealer's court. No product is going to be a good product without good dealer support--I don't care what the brand or product is. It is really up to the dealer to make this good--otherwise he is going to lose a customer. I will say the stories we have seen over the past year about NAD factory reps meeting customers with a bad unit at the airport and taking the products back to be fixed free is beyond anything I have heard of before, but NAD should not have to do this. It is the local dealer's responsibility to step up and make it right, whether that means fixing the unit or replacing the unit. BTW, Greg, I have talked to too many dealers now about this "reliability issue" and they all tell me that they are very satisfied with NAD's quality--defintely on par with the Denons and the Yamahas (I would not have bought one otherwise). I think the reported problems on this board tends to be a reflection of the fact that NAD owners expect more out of their product. I know the dreaded delay in recognizing a signal over an optical cable was a big issue on this board until those of us with Denons and Onkyos discovered our units did the same thing. No, a customer who seeks out a product like NAD because they perceive it offers a superior sound is going to scrutinize everything. After all, it is not sold as a commodity. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 195 Registered: 12-2003 | Agreed, Hawk. There is a link here, of course. NAD needs dealers to investigate customer dissatisfaction and do something about it. That is an admission they are not perfect. But no brand is. Better have something great with the risk of a bug someone will fix for free than a unit you are dissatisifed with, but up to spec, so the fault is with you. BTW, Josh (posts; 1): Hawk (posts; 288) shows up and generously makes his views known. He also now owns an NAD. He recommends many things. And explains why. There is no problem, really. Let us not have a repeat of all the conspiracy nonsense there was last November. "AWOL" is in the US news, I hear. There are many discernable difference between Hawk and George W. The main one is the latter was paid for serving in the NG. I agree NAD owners can tend to be picky, sometimes bordering on neurotic. If this forum over-represents their pleasure and angst, that ain't nobody's fault, except the posters themselves. That's all of us, including Josh. I believe everyone here is interested in which brands give "peace of mind", but it comes less easily if you are critical. Then it's good to have somewhere to share your problems and views. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 30 Registered: 12-2003 | I, personally, am not *that* critical of a just-perceptible noise floor (that is, white noise from the DSP and that sort of thing)... I owned Sony ES receivers for a number of years, and they always had very audible hiss in the surround modes. This isn't a defect or flaw, it's just a limitation of the design. However, my concern with the "hum" issue (as opposed to "hiss") described in a couple of threads is the potential for this issue to be related to electrical interference and that sort of thing. If so, I wouldn't consider this a limitation of the design, but rather a flaw in the design or failure of a part. Hopefully, this is not the case, because I'm getting tired of not having a receiver and really want to pick up a 763. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 200 Registered: 12-2003 | Darryl--In the state of current amp and pre-amp design there is no reason for the component to generate noise if it is well grounded. The main reason that people buy double-balanced separate amps (besides usually increased power), is that double-balancing is excellent at taking any hum out of the system. Singled balanced amps can still have some residual hum. But the above all said, we can all ground and do things to remove hum. Hawk--I also said I wouldn't let the perceived or real situation of NAD problems stop me from buying a new NAD under warranty. From my personal NAD knowledge I have found that they fix things promptly and I am fine with that. But on a purely interest level I might do a google search and see if there is available mid to high end receiver reliability information available to the public. But I doubt there will be other then the low end info from Consumer Reports which probably don't include NAD, Rotel, Arcam, Pioneer Elite, and many others. John A.-- I know some excellent audio salon dealers that have spent a lot of time with me. There are just some issuers I know not to expect a good answer on and have learned to stay away from those. Most of the wonderful salon dealers even have that "I don't carry that Yamaha, Denon, or whatever" line down pat. So I recognize they will mostly be less than truthful in that area. I think they teach that line in audio salon ownership 101. But some will give you excellent information on what they have and I have known good ones that have come over to my house and helped me get a good set-up. So I am defintely not against salon dealers. Afterall, where else could many of us hear a lot of good equipment? I just advise to take certain information they dole out with a grain of salt--from why they don't carry such and such a line and why you should buy very expensive speaker wires and interconnects. Although I realize many of them need to sell those over-priced wires and interconnects to stay in business. I just hope they get those sales from very wealthy people and not people who are going into dcebt because of their hobby. |
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Bronze Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 69 Registered: 12-2003 | Hey, check out this forum's thread: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=7a8f28596dfe4dc770149f139d1c3caf&thread id=357579 It is like a parallel universe. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 196 Registered: 12-2003 | Gregory, I agree totally. Including the part about speaker wire and interconnects. In my neck of the woods there are even salons with some sort of agreement not to compete, so one carries NAD/Denon/B&W/Dali/Loewe; down the road is a similar place carrying HK/Classé/KEF/Jamo/Pioneer etc., and neither carries the same gear as the other. Walk out in to the high street and there are different shops all selling Sony/Yamaha/AudioPro (a local speaker)/Philips/Samsung, sometimes at such amazingly different prices you wonder how many punters suffer short term memory loss when walking fifty yards. Then mass market audio brands have some models for the high street and different ones for salons. I used to believe "buy a make, not a brand", but even the distinction between brands and manufacturers is getting difficult now so much is made in the far East. Mordaunt Short and Gale are the same speakers; the NAD/Arcam connection mentioned here is similar, but I think they have yet to become identical. Someone, somewhere buys brand identities and customer loyalty, aware that each brand occupies a certain market niche. Looking now at projectors, it is amazing how many units branded with recognisable but quite different names are identical except for the badge. The real maker is probably a name none of us have ever heard. Brand loyalty is often local, or national. A German friend once asked me "why are Opels called Vauxhalls in UK?" The answer is General Motors, which owns both, is canny about image, the history and reputation of the marque, etc. Maybe you miss some of this fun in the US. I am enjoying this thread. Thanks, all. Hope Air Force One gets sorted out and posts back before I wander off into distant realms. Thanks for the link, Jonathan. They stay a bit more focussed on that forum, perhaps, but it doesn't seem quite as informative! |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 31 Registered: 12-2003 | "Hey, check out this forum's thread:" Interesting comments in this thread... Complaining about a high noise level in a high-fidelity audio component is like "complaining about the seatbelts in a Ferrari"?!? I think it would be more like complaining about a constant sputter from the engine of your Ferrari that you could hear whenever it was idling. "Darryl--In the state of current amp and pre-amp design there is no reason for the component to generate noise if it is well grounded" Which is why I would consider such noise an issue. ;-) |
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Bronze Member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 12 Registered: 02-2004 | Just letting you guys know I should have the replacement 773 either Wed. or Thurs. I'll post back ASAP. I Promise. Later guys. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 198 Registered: 12-2003 | Thanks. There will be lots of interest in your post, AF1. |
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New member Username: Air_force_onePost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | I had to unregister and re-register as I got spammed like a mother everytime an e-mail alert was sent letting me know this thread had been posted in. OK. I got my replacement 773 on Fri. and it hummed and buzzed up a storm. Shut it off and boxed it up in less than 20 minutes as the sound(buzz) that I've grown to despise was again in my home. I will be ordering a 973 power amp to finish this transaction once and for all. If not for this amp I'd pay a 400 restocking fee to get out from under NAD. Of course I'm still nervous as NAD in the last two weeks has suddenly changed the 973 from being THX Ultra certified to NO THX. More of their BullS#@* if you ask me. I mean how is the 973 THX certified since Oct and now suddenly it's not???? BTW, go to the NAD site and check the specs for the 773: THEY WILL NOT LIST THE S/N RATIO. Nor after being released for at least 4 months will they show us a CLEAR picture of the units. Rotel's new stuff on their website is CLEARLY visible. The ONLY reason for my purchase of the 973 is they are at least listing most of the specs, although they may yank those anyday. I will not be buying the 163 to go with it as I do not trust NAD at this point because again, THEY WILL NOT LIST THE 163's S/N ratio. Any spec they will not list is a spec they are ashamed of, pure and simple. An amp is an amp in my book as long as it works, and after verifying the 973 works, I'll be on another journey to find a company I can trust, at least a little! 14 unanswered e-mails later and 5 left phone messages, again unanswered, are enough of a red flag for me. Not to mention sending me two defective units when I know damn well they are aware of this crap. A Rotel pre/pro is sounding REALLY sweet right now. I LOVE the NAD sound, but I'm not going to be their bitc# either. In all honesty, I plan on spending between 10 and 15 thousand dollars in the next year on HT(I must go without other things to afford this) and this 773 purchase was really nothing more than a feeling out process to get a sense of the NAD sound and a taste of their customer service. The sound I like, but the taste I got of customer service all but made me gag. I went into this with an OPEN mind and have found the "rumors" about NAD quality control to be anything but rumor. Others I'm sure will disagree but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend time in this thread instead of listening to home theater. It's NAD's job to hang out here and troubleshoot their products, not mine. Thanks to John A, and to all other that helped me. You are the only ones that did. I'll be around lurking and posting from time to time. Later. |
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New member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | What rotten luck! Can't blame you for being mad at NAD. They have such great sound but it seems like China was a bad move! Better luck with future HT purchases! |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | AF1, Sorry to hear about your luck. I guess I should consider myself lucky so far w/ my 773...or I'm not listening for it in the right mode. If I could trouble you since everyone has me paranoid as hell here... What mode do you get the humm/buzz in? Is it anytime it's on or what? I have heard some complain only w/DVD paused through digital. Just wondering if there should be something I should be checking to verify. Also, how loud is it really? can you hear it anywhere in the room or only with your ear up to the speaker? "THEY WILL NOT LIST THE S/N RATIO. Nor after being released for at least 4 months will they show us a CLEAR picture of the units." What do you mean by this statement? Are you referring to an exposed serial number range for this problem or what? Good luck and thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: E1kad2Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2003 | One good reason why I choose a YAMY over NAD. |
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Bronze Member Username: IcebergPost Number: 23 Registered: 12-2003 | I was thinking about upgrading to NAD 773. I guess i will wait a little longer. Sorry about your problem Air Force. They are very good receivers never the less. Good luck. |
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New member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Rantz, IIker, Thanks guys. JDG, It was all modes and inputs except for the tuner. No hum or buzz there for some reason. I had a buddy bring his Rotel 1055 over to make SURE it wasn't me somehow and the darn thing was SILENT. You're probably fine if you haven't heard it. I had to change the way my username looks so it would let me register. If I split up the words it wouldn't work. |
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New member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | Forgot your other question. The signal to noise ratio(S/R) is not available for the 773 anywhere on NAD's website. Check the 973 power amp and it's there. I did finally find the S/R for the 763, 753, and 743 and it stated 80db. The 973 says 95db. Ordinarily I wouldn't put too much stock in these numbers but when they won't list it for one unit and do for the rest, it raises a red flag. Also if you go to their website it will not give you a CLEAR picture of any of these units. They are blurred after being out since Oct. |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | T773 data sheet (pdf file): Signal/noise ratio; ref rated power 8 Ohms: >90dB Signal/noise ratio; ref 1W / 8 Ohms: >80dB |
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New member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004 | I have a Nad brochure - no signal to noise ratio there also! I wonder if this is a batch problem or just intermittent poor quality control? Nad must overcome these issues or they'll lose their excellent reputation. Word gets out much faster on the net than times past! |
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New member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004 | John A, Thanks! Where did you find it? In the end it really doen't matter as the 973 amp is a done deal. I've concluded I can't live without the NAD sound. I'll get a NAD pre/pro just not yet. I just want to let things shake loose and they'll be coming out with a better pre/pro than the 163 pretty soon anyway. The 773 closed the door on a receiver I fell in love with but I'm getting excited(and feeling forgiving) with the amp on the way. I've heard nothing but good(quiet) things about it. They still have a chance to make me a long term customer but as they say first impressions are everything. I don't know if I'm just imagining things but John A you seemed to give a cold response to my above post about the replacement 773. You seemed concerned until I got mad about it. I don't regret anything I posted there except that about rotel(i actually hate the way they look) and wouldn't really go there. I've paid for this stuff and have the right to complain when things don't go right. Just seems strange that an average joe(john A) helping someone out would have read that post and had some kind of response besides the answer for the S/N ratio. I mean we did converse and you asked me to PLEASE get back about it. Then no response when I do. Except like I said the S/N ratio. Like I insulted you personally with the replacement 773 rant.Probably nothing. |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004 | Well, when I heard about these noise issues a few weeks back, right after I got my T773, I played a DVD and paused it to listen (which was the mode I recall reading would hiss/humm). I had to put my ear right up to the speaker to hear it. Standing in front of the speaker NOTHING so I thought I was relatively clean. Then after reading yet more I really started playing around with it. I turned every component connected to the 773 off and ONLY powered up the 773. Again I sit in my listening position and nothing...only with my ear to the speaker a very slight hiss. Then I sit in my chair and crank the volume up. At around 0 db the hiss IS AUDIBLE from my listening position. Turning the volume down I can't hear it from my chair when it gets around -10 db. Of course putting my ear to the speaker I can definitely hear it. So does this sound like the hiss/humm issue in question or am I being over-sensitive? I am reading on some of these threads that you shouldn't hear ANYTHING at all regardless. I has a Yamaha RX-V2092 that I replaced with this 773 and it did have an audible hiss with inputs not playing but that doesn't make it right I guess. I just never thought it was an issue. "T773 data sheet (pdf file): Signal/noise ratio; ref rated power 8 Ohms: >90dB Signal/noise ratio; ref 1W / 8 Ohms: >80dB" What do these S/N ratios mean (sorry, been an HT enthusiast for years but I'm new at specs with this stuff)? I probably wouldn't have went through all of this to discover the concern if I hadn't heard all of these issues. I won't accept sub-standard quality at this price point so if I need to address it with my NAD dealer I will. I love the NAD sound from this unit especially in the side by side comparison I did in my home with the Yamaha RX-V2400 which sold me on the NAD, and after what I went through with that 2400 debacle, I want to close on all of this receiver stuff and just enjoy it. Thanks for your advice. |
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New member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 4 Registered: 02-2004 | If you don't hear this from your listening position during quiet scenes in movies then don't worry there's no issue. I had to put my ear up to the speaker to figure out exactly what I was hearing from the listening position at any volume. Very important to make this clear. It would have bothered you by now. It only took me two days to become completely irritated by it. |
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New member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 5 Registered: 02-2004 | One more point. For me it was actually worse in the listening position because it came from all the speakers. Putting my ear to the speaker with a movie paused I thought to myself "how could I hear this from over there?" After awhile I realized the rear speakers were the worst with the buzzing. Sitting with all the speakers aimeded at me in the listening position seemed like the worst place to be if I didn't want to hear the buzz. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 250 Registered: 12-2003 | AIR FORCE ONE, No problem, honestly! My post was brief through lack of time. Also, battling with the e-coustics breakdown made me reluctant to write more. And I am aware that I sometimes bore people to death with receivers, life, the universe, and everything... Right. The brochure I have with those S/N figures is a pdf file named " Please bear with me, since I read "NAD Electronics International reserves the right to change specifications or features without notice. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored, or transmitted in any form whatsoever without the written permission of NAD Electronics International". So your point about the red flag still stands, AF1. Personally, I think it is more likely an oversight by NAD. They would not deliberately publish the S/N figures for other models in the range and then keep quiet about the flagship. I have enjoyed this thread and all your posts, AF1. Thank you for the great report on the 973 surround power amp. It looks wonderful, and probably miles out of my price range. It is the way I would go, too, if I could! JDG, S/N ratios are like power in Watts, it is another area where NAD does not look so great on paper if you consider the inflated claims of competing manufacturers. But those figures mean SILENCE from the listening position if there is nothing playing. If you turn the gain to max, you might hear a whisper. That is not an issue. Whereas ANY audible noise from an amp/receiver at normal listening levels definitely IS an issue. PS Thanks, admin, for restoring me. Though not my profile, yet. I have a life, too, promise! |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 5 Registered: 02-2004 | Thanks for the help guys. This is somewhat comforting. I really love the sound of this baby so I guess if she doesn't have the "bug" I consider myself lucky if all of these posts are any indicator. |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 | John A., Sorry to bother you w/ 2 different threads going on the same topic but to assure my question doesn't get buried, how do I measure my unit against the S/N Ratio to assure it's compliance to spec.? Is this done with an SPL meter or what? If so, what volume settings and sequence do I use. Thanks. |
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New member Username: LyonsPost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | Message to all-- My name is Dan Lyons and I am a reporter at Forbes magazine. I'm working on a story about NAD and would like to hear from customers about their experiences with NAD gear. Anyone who would like to tell their story can reach me by phone at 781 391 7849 or by email at dlyons@forbes.com. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 260 Registered: 12-2003 | JDG, Sorry, don't know. See reply on other thread. My guess is some test gear, including an oscilloscope, would be required. Possibly a measure with an SPL would simply be measured value for signal, S, (playing something) in dB minus measured value for noise, N, (switch off or mute the source) in dB. dB is units on a log scale, so subtracting the values would give S/N ratio, and the units will still be in dB. It should never fall below the specified value. I am making this up, from elementary physics. If anyone knows better, please say! |
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Unregistered guest | Hi, Charles with www.soundresearchlabs.com says: NAD dealers deal with NAD because they love the product. Comparetively the value is excessive in NAD products. We as dealers have seen every brand made have its share of problems. One brand that starts with an S, has lots of DOA product. Lets not forget the fact that the posters having problems may not be telling us exactly what happened when the lightning struck that night but they sure want it fixed because they love the sound of that NAD. I've personally witnessed some of the NAD power amps boil water and not fail so I know the quality of NAD. As for hums, Power conditioning will solve most of those problems and clean up video signals as well. If not you must have an electrition give you and isolated ground. These are really basics for custom installation people but I realize some people just don't know, so I offer the advice. How can you forgo the advances that NAD has built into its product? No, NAD is tops with custom dealers because of sofware upgrades, multi room application, 12 volt triggers for your projection screen, barlighting or even your garage door. How about the 2nd zone remote in the t 773, or the rs232 port interace for advanced control systems. Anyone who has a problem with any NAD products can call 1-510-868-1635 and we will have it forwarded to the L.A. service center. If under warranty it will be fixed under warranty terms. If no warranty applies it will be charged at normal service center rates. We deal NAD because we use and love it. /CD www.SoundResearchLabs.com |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 342 Registered: Dec-03 | Charles, Thanks. Wish I lived near your store. I have commented on Looking for opinions on NAD AV receivers. |
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New member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-04 | I had similar problems to AF1's post - only with NAD T762. Loud POP, shut down... no good. Only solution was getting a new unit shipped. Now I'm experiencing the delay or truncation of the digital bit-stream when playing a CD. I have routed CD via analog instead (as my CD DAC's are better)... but this still troubles me in terms of quality control at NAD. |
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New member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-04 | BTW - I've had no problems with service or replacement of NAD products... and that's due largely in part by selecting a good dealer. Don't go for the cheapest place... you'll probably regret it. |
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Bronze Member Username: CargoilSan Diego, Ca US Post Number: 14 Registered: Dec-03 | Great thread. First time I have really heard both sides of the NAD story. I must say Blazer does echo my feelings about recommending a product in every circumstance, even after so many, less then favorable 1st hand reviews have been posted. I know every unit and every manufacturer can have issues but I for one have a problem with taking the time to hook up a new component, get it into my cabinet, carefully threading and hiding the wiring, just to have to do it again in two weeks. No matter how good the customer service is I don't want to have to deal with it to start with. I'm sorry to repeat a post from another thread but I must tell you of my latest experience. I must add all I did was turn it on and low and behold it worked. As did most every component I have ever purchased. It may develop a problem later but at least for now I have no hums, crackles or snaps. Wow! I just hooked up my new 3805. I got one of the first here in San Diego. It is awesome! I set it up manually for the first test run and even with my tin ear it sounds fantastic. I had a Yamaha 1300 and considered the 2400. In fact I had the 2400 for awhile on a test run. I heard about the 3805 and always loved Denon. After playing a few of my favorite cuts in both stereo and SACD the performance is incredible. I thought the 2400 was an improvement but this bad boy makes my Vienna Acoustics just rock. My son and I (from Tweeters) played with it till about 2:00am the other night. The quality of the sound and sound stage it presents is the best I have heard, at least with my system. The PL2x for TV viewing is perfect. If anyone on this site is still considering a new receiver, I would wait to hear this one. The only draw back I have encountered so far is the fact Denon does not provide the mike for the automatic set up the receiver provides. It was quite simple to do manually but I do want to try the auto mode when I can. It doesn't have THX but with the different DSP's available I'm sure I can come close to duplicating Lucas. The little bit of Jurassic Park I played was enough to convince me I can live with out the THX. I hope a few people on this site give it a listen and let me know what they think. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 53 Registered: Feb-04 | I also have to repeat Johnb that not ALL NADs are defective. I too haven't had to mess with my T773 since I set it up 5 weeks ago. So far so good... |
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