Archive through January 05, 2005
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 349 Registered: Oct-04 | Ghia and John A. - fine thoughts and caring words mark both of you as "real" humanitarians. May we all have such sensitivity. My Rantz: Sir - way down there on the other side of the world from us - our hearts go out to all of the affected people in your hemisphere. Living much closer to the disaster, I'm wondering what must be going on in your minds about now? Do you in any way stand in harm's way should another such tsunami strike? We are collectively worried. As a side note, may I just say that - as I watch journalists from all over the world report on TV - you should be ultimately proud of your Aussie reporters. I give them and the British correspondents double-A for excellence under pressure. MR - I'd gladly send most of our TV "journalists" down there - for training! In watching the TV shows here, I'm appalled at all of the "chirpy" comments and smiley-faced introductions to on-scene reports. Sir, I spent 30 years in the "trade," and I'd like to apologize for most of what I now watch on "American" TV. I'd like to add my simple comments to what Ghia and John A. have already posted: God be with you all, and may there be no more such aweful disasters. My prayer - my hope. More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1215 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry, I appreciate your thinking about us here down under at this terrible time. Fortunately, Australia is unaffected by the tsunamis except for those who have lost loved ones or friends. I awoke this am to read that the toll has reached 60,000 and like everyone, understand with utmost dread this number will keep increasing as more days pass. To think we have such amazing technology at our disposal yet in that part of the world where the devastation occurred there are no warning systems. It makes one wonder what are we all doing here on this planet. If only the world could unite so we may all look out for one another. A nice dream . . . |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2052 Registered: Dec-03 | for anyone who may be interested , a little fine reading on tubes! http://home.comcast.net/~enghenry/diy/taste.pdf (you'll nead acrobat reader , but can download it for free) Jan I think you'll enjoy how it's written. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 558 Registered: Apr-04 | Kegger, I'm afraid I will have to forego reading that link since I was able to weather and get past the recent Jolida tube CD/Musical Fidelity DAC temptation and don't need any more temptations. lol How did you do in your Super Bowl? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2054 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia I posted that link here because I feel anyone could benefit from reading it weather or not your going to buy anything! It's an educational and very intriuging read! Congrats on your's! Yes I won also , had double the points of the other guy! Whooo Hoooo! Now I'm concentrating on my bowl pool! And picked against michigan for the first time! I think they've got some really good players but there a year or so away from being dominant! (could get lucky though the young QB is going to be something special) see yu! peace out! every doggy! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 559 Registered: Apr-04 | Kegger, My problem is I read something educational and intriguing which piques my interest and makes me spend money. lol I may revisit it when I'm feeling a little stronger about resisting the temptation. I was glad to win my playoffs. It would have s u c k e d to finish in first place during the regular season with the most wins and most points of any team in the league but then lose the Super Bowl. lol. Do you think the boys will let me play with them next year after this? Good luck with your bowl pool. My rotisserie season is over - except for eating chicken. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | In the "just for those who care" file, as we near the end of the year, I offer this as the Dumbest Line of the Year! (And remember this had to top Jessica Simpson telling Gale Norton, the Secretary of the Interior, "You done a wonderful job decorating the White House"; and, Rush Limbaugh referring to Abu Ghraib as "people having a good time" and the "need to blow some steam off".) Concerning the Tsunami in S.E. Asia, and among the clatter on the radio talk shows about the US money promised for reconstruction and aid (and this was when George had only offered $2million), came the shouts of "why my money", "why should the UN be involved?" and something about how this would lead to illegal immigration that I just didn't get (I was driving the car and knew I would run it into a telephone pole should I try to comprehend that one), comes this wonderful expression of compassion and logic: "I didn't see Sri Lanka giving us millions when we had the hurricanes!" Anyone care to try topping that one? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2702 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Incredible. Untoppable. No-one could make that up. When I wrote "Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 07:00 am", no-one had any idea of the scale of the disaster, but I thought the first reports were probably cautious. So far, the nation that has handled this with greatest dignity, compassion, and common sense, as far as I can see, is India. They have massive losses themselves, and are still down there in Sri Lanka doing more than anybody else, just because they know they are their little neighbour's only hope. Also, the pro rata aid from Canada, so far, should make Americans think hard, in my view. What's the relative population and GDP of Canada compared to the US? 10%? I am waiting for my first scam e-mail about disaster relief. I have a good idea where it will originate. But let no-one try to score points on this one. It is humanity's problem. That means all of us. Let us forget our differences and insecurities, and just do something. Anything. I have seen Oxfam at work, before, and, personally, chose them. Others may have other ideas. The auditors can calculate GDP percentages later, as far as I am concerned. There are more important things right now. |
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Silver Member Username: OjophileON Post Number: 204 Registered: Jun-04 | I couldn't help thinking...if the tsunami tragedy had happened to France or Canada, or any other nation that refused to go along with GWB's plan to invade Irag, then that asinine remark that Jan heard on the radio would or could have gained some support from misguided patriots, not to mention the Jon Stewarts, the Jay Lenos, and the David Lettermans who are always looking for an opportunity to throw darts at other countries. I think that in the course of dealing with this human tragedy, there is absolutely no room for reciprocity. What is more important is our unconditional charity that is measured not in dollars, but in our individual capacities to help our fellow members of this global society that we call the human race. To those who cry, "Why my money?!", my reply is, "Why their lives?" |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1220 Registered: Aug-04 | "Anyone care to try topping that one?" Two days after the tsunamis there was a news interview here with a fellow getting off a plane after fleeing the devastation somewhere in Indonesia. All he could do was criticise the Howard government for not acting swift enough in sending planes. This poor fellow who arrived home safe and sound with all his family intact was obviously upset he had to pay for the flight. Poor sod - how my heart goes out to him. That may not top yours Jan but I do wonder about the selection process of who survives these disasters. To all: I hope you all have peace, happiness and good health in 2005. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 560 Registered: Apr-04 | Count me in as one who was disgusted by the US's initial paltry aid offering. Everything the Bush administration is doing now has the appearance of "reactive" instead of "proactive". Yet another example of the overall cluelessness of the Bushies. Even with the increase of the aid to $35 million it is an embarassment not only based on GDP but also in comparison to the estimated cost to inaugrate Bush which is expected to be $30-40 million excluding security costs. In the long run, I believe the US contribution will be far greater than what is currently promised but the damage has already been done. But, what doesn't get counted in the US aid package is the contributions millions of Americans are likely to give to organizations such as the Red Cross. Despite the underwhelming efforts of the US government and despite the idiocy of provincial nimcompoops espousing selfish, racist hatred, I believe the vast majority of Americans do care about this tragedy and want to assist. Unfortunately, it's the idiots who get the attention. If you are interested in contributing to organizations who have lower overhead costs, you can find a list of "reputable" charities here. These folks won't scam anyone. God bless everyone. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2705 Registered: Dec-03 | Well said, Ghia. The Red Cross is a good choice. I donated through www.oxfam.co.uk People may rightly choose to go through their national agencies, since it seems what each country gives is being counted. Also, there is no doubt that some parasites will cash in on this, so it makes sense to wish to know which are reputable agencies. There is a consortium of trusted aid organisations from a UK perspective: www.dec.org.uk In the national league tables of aid in today's news, one, the smallest, moved me immensely. If they can give, anyone can. From todays "The Times" (without permission);  |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2706 Registered: Dec-03 | Well said, Don and MR, too. I meant to include that, above. The world must thank your countries; they did not "look over their shoulders", they just did it. Apart from the cash, they are sending transport planes, equipment, medical supplies, emergency teams, etc. Clean water is going to be a big factor if as many lives are not to be lost again from collapse of infrastructure and infectious disease. |
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BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest | Does the U.S. allways have to come to the aid of other countries regardless of how it's economy is doing? How much aid is enough? Should it be measured in dollars? What country should react first in a crisis? Should the U.S. just be assumed to contribute? Should the U.S. take care of other countries before itself? If the U.S. has a disaster do other countries contribute? This is all well and good when a poor country has problems and others step in to help , everyone should, but to judge how one does it is wrong. The U.S. has been contributing to foreign aid more than any other country! Now if by chance they stand back a little and let others do more there chastised for it! How much can one country do? I'm not saying the U.S. should do nothing, but you can only strech yourself so far before you can't do anyone any good. And maybe you need to let other countries help more than you on some. Not saying that the U.S. is the only big contributor, but sometimes you need to swallow your pride and let others do a little more. The U.S. is a great country but sometimes sticks it's neck out a little farther then maybe it should! For it's own good and others! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "but sometimes you need to swallow your pride and let others do a little more." Uh, ??????????????????????????????????????? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.truthout.com/ Just the pictures. Please click on "big picture" to see the details of what they show. My original comment was meant only to show the ignorance of one comment. I was not trying to make any political statement. My politics are well known to the other old dogs, and they surely know I read, and believe, what this referenced site posts. That has nothing to do with why I suggest you go to the site. It, like a few newspapers, have no problem showing images that might be disturbing to some poeple's sensibilities. The editorial comment of this site is not my purpose for directing you to it. The images are simple facts of why "swallowing our pride" alone is a well chosen path. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 561 Registered: Apr-04 | BillyBob, You're welcome to contribute to this if you like but, please, get your facts straight. BillyBob wrote: The U.S. has been contributing to foreign aid more than any other country! This misinformed opinion reinforces a well-thought out post I read this morning by Juan Cole about the lack of understanding about absolute numbers and per capita numbers: "Second, Bush is an MBA, so he knows very well the difference between absolute numbers and per capita ones. Let's see, Australia offered US $27 million in aid for victims of the tsunami. Australia's population is about 20 million. Its gross domestic product is about $500 billion per year. Surely anyone can see that Australia's $27 million is far more per person than Bush's $35 million. Australia's works out to $1.35 per person. The US contribution as it now stands is about 9 cents per person..... ....Bush's underlining of the $2.5 billion he says the United States gave in emergency humanitarian aid last year annoyed the hell out of me. He said it was 40% of such monies given by the industrialized world. But the US is the world's largest economy, and neither on a per capita basis nor as a percentage of GDP is that very much money. Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world.... ....The US Federal budget in 2004 consists of about $1.8 trillion in receipts and $2.3 trillion in expenditures. The 2003 official development assistance budget was $15 billion (a very large portion of which goes to countries that don't need the assistance, and is given for strategic reasons). That is about 0.14 percent of the US GDP. Norway, in contrast, spends $2 billion a year on humanitarian assistance, which comes to almost a full 1.0 percent of its GDP. BillyBob wrote: What country should react first in a crisis? It's not a matter of who reacts first, it's a matter of reacting period! This is an enormous tragedy that affects the entire world and, as the Super Power, the US has a responsibility, as well a moral obligation, to reach out. It's not just about money either. It's the right thing to do. It's about making a gesture to show you empathize with those who have been affected. Much the same way the rest of the world reached out to the US after 9/11 in case you've forgotten. BillyBob wrote: Should the U.S. just be assumed to contribute? YES. That's the American way. At least it used to be. BillyBob wrote: Should the U.S. take care of other countries before itself? The US has an amazing self-preservation ability. We can take care of ourselves and still have more left over to help others. BillyBob wrote: If the U.S. has a disaster do other countries contribute? YES. I don't know if monetary contributions were made but people around the world showed empathy and offered prayers and symbolic support. Things that came very late from our government in the tsunami tragedy. It took 4 days for our President to break away from brush-clearing and biking to make a public statement. Contrast that with the German chancellor canceling his vacation to attend to this - even if it was more of a symbolic move he had enough wits to understand how one is perceived. BillyBob wrote: Not saying that the U.S. is the only big contributor, but sometimes you need to swallow your pride and let others do a little more. How magnanimous! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Just for those who care: http://www.nytimes.com/pages/world/worldspecial4/ Go to multimedia on the right of the page, click photos. If you need help getting into the site, use ID: 28297300, Password: smokey1. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | This is political. Anyone not sharing my views should be advised to move on. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/opinion/30thu2.html?incamp=article_popular_1&p agewanted=print&position= |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "How much aid is enough? Should it be measured in dollars?" Billy, my boy, I have to agree with you on this one. With what George has done to the dollar, it doesn't buy much against other currencies anymore. How about we measure it in Euro's and see how much our contribution adds up to. |
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BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest | "Second, Bush is an MBA, so he knows very well the difference between absolute numbers and per capita ones. Let's see, Australia offered US $27 million in aid for victims of the tsunami. Australia's population is about 20 million. Its gross domestic product is about $500 billion per year. Surely anyone can see that Australia's $27 million is far more per person than Bush's $35 million. Australia's works out to $1.35 per person. The US contribution as it now stands is about 9 cents per person..... .....Bush's underlining of the $2.5 billion he says the United States gave in emergency humanitarian aid last year annoyed the hell out of me. He said it was 40% of such monies given by the industrialized world. But the US is the world's largest economy, and neither on a per capita basis nor as a percentage of GDP is that very much money." Yes that shows that the U.S. did not contribute as much on this one as others! That's the whole thing, the U.S. has been contributing more than any other country in the past, now if it doesn't contribute as much or more than others on this it's wrong? So the U.S. should allways contribute more? Your right The U.S. is spending a ton of cash in iraq every day. Because you or others may believe the U.S. should not be there then your saying we should pull the troops out and pay for a disaster instead? And that's where I'm saying The U.S. is doing quite a bit and maybe letting other countries contribute more on some things is the right thing to do! "BillyBob wrote: If the U.S. has a disaster do other countries contribute? YES. I don't know if monetary contributions were made but people around the world showed empathy and offered prayers and symbolic support" Can't the U.S. do the same thing or de we have to send cash to see that we are supportive? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Billy, politics have stayed out of this thread for a long time. We have people of diferent persausions about their political beliefs, and we have tried to respect the difference of opinion that exists. You, however have come into this thread and decided to argue politics. I find that very bothersome. I also find it very disturbing that someone who has never appeared on this thread now decides, as Billy Bob, to make the issue a matter of disagreement. It seems odd to me you just happened to stumble across this thread when the discussion turned to this topic. I feel there is more to this than you let on. The ability to hide behind "Billy Bob" is too convenient. "Because you or others may believe the U.S. should not be there then your saying we should pull the troops out and pay for a disaster instead?" That is the weakest attempt I have seen in a long time to disparage the comments by accusing the speaker of a nonexistent remark. You attribute your own prejudices thinking we will back down. Not likely. Your comment indicates a very poor understanding of what we are discussing and a knee jerk reaction that has been conditioned into your brain like Pavlov's dog. Bow Wow, Billy. Please indicate (you must know how to cut and paste) where the suggestion was made that we should pull out of Iraq. If you can't, you owe Ghia an apology and an admission that you were trying to put words into her mouth that you wanted to be there for your own purposes. Are you big enough to do that, Billy boy? You have used a poor argument to deflect the discomfort I find with your presence. As a matter of fact, you have used the dumbest remark I have heard since my original post on this topic. If you insist on carrying on with this discussion on this thread, please make intelligent comments that are to the point of the conversation. Do not introduce your rightwing slurs without fore knowledge of their effects. They are ridiculous and only show the level of your understanding of the topic at hand. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 562 Registered: Apr-04 | BB wrote: Yes that shows that the U.S. did not contribute as much on this one as others! That's the whole thing, the U.S. has been contributing more than any other country in the past, now if it doesn't contribute as much or more than others on this it's wrong? Wrong again! The U.S government does not contribute more than others on a per capita basis. Try again to understand the difference between "absolute numbers vs per capita numbers". BB wrote: So the U.S. should allways contribute more? Your right The U.S. is spending a ton of cash in iraq every day. Because you or others may believe the U.S. should not be there then your saying we should pull the troops out and pay for a disaster instead? And that's where I'm saying The U.S. is doing quite a bit and maybe letting other countries contribute more on some things is the right thing to do! Wrong again! This isn't about Iraq vs Tsunami and no one said anything about pulling troops out of Iraq. It really sucks when people make statements such as that to imply something that was never said in the first place! Those figures were a correlation to show some perspective on how little the U.S. government is willing to spend on humanitarian efforts versus what it is wiling to (and must) spend to wage war. BB wrote: Can't the U.S. do the same thing or de we have to send cash to see that we are supportive? The US needs to do both. The "symbolic" part should have happened from the beginning where our president should have publicly expressed sorrow and pledged to do whatever he could to help. Doing this four days after the fact is a lost opportunity for the US to establish goodwill. Not that folks who share your views care about that. The monetary part should occur because it is the right thing to do to help those in need. This is an event that will cost billions for recovery and most countries (and millions of individuals) are pitching in to help out and, most of those countries are giving more on a per capita basis (see above point about understanding absolute numbers vs per capita) than the US, the wealthiest nation on the planet. Just to be clear, my complaints are not about Americans. They are about the U.S government. So, now I have a question for you, BillyBob. What's wrong with showing generosity and humanity in wake of possibly the worst natural disaster ever to have occurred in modern times? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Billy, she beat me to it, but let me suggest one thing. You've made me mad. Take my advice, you don't want to know what happens when you make Ghia mad! |
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BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest | "Please indicate (you must know how to cut and paste) where the suggestion was made that we should pull out of Iraq. If you can't, you owe Ghia an apology and an admission that you were trying to put words into her mouth that you wanted to be there for your own purposes. Are you big enough to do that, Billy boy?" came from this! "Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world...." Yes I had stumbled accross your postings while looking at others in sacd. What I saw was postings of people questioning the U.S. efforts and all I really wanted to know was if everyone felt the U.S. allways has to contribute? And if they don't how are looked upon? Well it looks like I got it. So I will let you folks continue without me! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | I have found the more ridiculous the moniker, the less important the views of the writer. Everyone on this thread knows each other by name. Everyone except you, Billy. That is unlikely to be your name. I live in a part of the country where there are a lot of Billy Bob's, and most of them can't read, let alone type. Why don't you come clean, Billy boy, and tell us who you really are and the reason you entered this thread at this time? As long as you insist on hiding behind your dog tag, you have little to say that is of any importance. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Billy, you are an ignorant fool!!! Good riddance. |
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BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest | Oh I'm the fool for questioning or wondering! Your the fool if you don't. And the fool who took my questions as slander. You and others can bash the president but as soon as someone questions it holy toledo , oh no you didn't! So read what you believe,believe what you read. Go support michael moore ,,,, whatever you want. But remember this is a public board and I may come and go as I please, I'm not one of your lap puppies you can druel into shape! So for now I'm gone but who knows. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 563 Registered: Apr-04 | BB wrote: quoting JV: "Please indicate (you must know how to cut and paste) where the suggestion was made that we should pull out of Iraq. If you can't, you owe Ghia an apology and an admission that you were trying to put words into her mouth that you wanted to be there for your own purposes. Are you big enough to do that, Billy boy?" BB's actual response: "came from this!" "Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world...." BB, if you're still around, show up and tell me where, in that statement you've used as an example, anyone says to pull troops out of Iraq? I don't see it. Maybe because no one ever said so in that post. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 564 Registered: Apr-04 | BB wrote: Oh I'm the fool for questioning or wondering! So, it's ok for you to "question and wonder" about whether the U.S. should help others but Jan or I (and many others if you read editorials around the US and the world) can't "question or wonder" why our government didn't do a better job of responding? Seems a little hypocritical to me. What does Michael Moore have to do with this? Maybe be a crutch for your lack of reasonable debate? I won't call you a fool. But, your "questioning and wondering" about the necessity for humanitarian giving leaves me with the impression that you may be a little self-centered and provincial. Not that that matters to you. To others on the board: My apologies that this has turned into political fisticuffs. My main point was to "question and wonder" about the U.S. response which unfortunately meant Bush's lack of response in addition to the paltry initial sum offered. I don't intend to turn this into a debate about any other aspect of his administration or policies. And, trust me, I would love to have been given a reason to have my perception of the president altered. But, the slow response and the obvious attempts to do damage control (with Powell appearing on morning talk shows, etc) left a bad impression. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Billy boy - I repeat, you are an ignorant fool. You see only what you wish to be and ignore the facts that are in black and white before your very eyes. More of a fool there cannot be. And to your suggestion, " ... but who knows", I would reply, obviously not you. My apologies to all on this forum other than Billy boy. This was not my intent when I posted the original comment. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2058 Registered: Dec-03 | While I'm certainly not backing billy boy's sentiments, I hait to admit I have asked myself before if the us is spreading it'self to thin with all the aid that it has given to other countries. Sorry guy's and gal's just being honest. I want to help others and feel we should. But I have wondered if maybe we have done too much at times. That's all I have to say, don't mean to stir the pot or get a debate going. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | NOPE! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 565 Registered: Apr-04 | Kegger, I'm sorry, but how can there ever be "too much" help? I wish I could understand that sentiment but I can't. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 566 Registered: Apr-04 | Well, gentlemen, it's time to get ready to ring in the new year. Hopefully, everyone has a safe, happy celebration! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2059 Registered: Dec-03 | Meaning where it hurts a country for the future of helping others or itself if it extends itself to far to recover or protect itself. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 350 Registered: Oct-04 | Well, gang, I'm going to "wimp out" here - wishing all of you on this forum a Happy New Year, and one free of personal tragedy for each of you. Mer won't let me get into any political frays, so all I'll say is that I hope that this horrible tragedy is a catalyst for the world to perhaps get together in one of those good old-fashioned "one for all and all for one" situations. God knows this is an example of the poorest of the poor getting dumped on Big Time! I gave up on my hopes for a "Nirvana" on this earth a long time ago - saw too much pain and suffering with too little help that really mattered. But - I retain a spark of hope that somehow we might eventually find a commonality of purpose. I know - that's an old man talking - but what choice do I have? I can either hope, or give up. Which I refuse to do. So - to all of you who have grown to be a part of Mer's and my life - be thankful for what you have, for it is a lot, and be hopeful for the future, for without hope, all is lost. HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM SWAMPVILLE! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Kegger - I've thought about this and decided to ask you a single question. Before I do let me give a few facts which I'm certain you are already familiar with but others may need to know before they can understand my question to you. I will attempt to make my statements as apolitical as possible under the circumstances. As a nation we are the richest country in the world and the only Superpower. As a nation we have more billionaires than any other country. As a nation we have allocated over $225 billion to the war in Iraq, not including operations in Afghanistan and other areas of the world. We have projections of an occupation in Iraq that might last another 20 years. The Pentagon will cut $60 billion from its 2005 budget. That represents a cut of approximately 2 1/2%. As a nation we have just released a federal employee tasked with handling the taxpayer's money because he failed at his job. That 55 year old man is going to make $143,000 per month for the rest of his life. His pension and stock options aren't included in that figure. The CEO of a major New York brokerage firm made $20 million this last year, in bonuses alone. As a nation we have an entertainer who has been dead for more than 25 years whose estate made almost $40 million last year. Americans will spend about $2.5 billion on their pets this coming year. The President wants to make his tax cuts permanent. They are now responsible for over 40% of the $1 trillion (that's $1,000,000,000,000) deficit we have accrued over the past four years. Over 80% of those tax cuts go to the top 5%. As the President pointed out in his campaign, rich people don't pay taxes, they are rich enough to hire lawyers. That deficit number doesn't include the $500+ billion that will be the projected cost of the Medicare reforms. It doesn't include the projected $1 trillion to be spent on privatizing Social Security. We have, as a nation, deployed a missile defense system that doesn't work, at unrevealed cost, against an enemy that doesn't exist. Sales of luxury cars, homes and boats are at record levels. We are, as a nation, so I've heard, a Christian people. Christ said how you treat the poorest among you is how you treat Him. The average per capita income of many of the countries stricken by this disaster is less than $350. My question to you is this. What do you think we should do? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 12:03 AM in Dallas, January 1, 2005. We made it. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2060 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan: "My question to you is this. What do you think we should do?" If you read my post I never said we should not help! My statemeant was I have asked myself at one time or another "not neccaseraly right now" If a country has or could ever go to far in aid to other countries where it has extended it'self to far for it's own good or being able to help others in the future. That's all no more no less! If I had to vote weather we should help these other countries or the relief efforts right now I would vote in favor of doing so! But I also can admit I have my doughts as to weather or not that one country "any country not just the us" can give all the aid it can and not be harmed later on down the road from a catastrophie of it's own or possably being attacked by someone else when there resources are low. Maybe I'm thinking more into the future of what could happen instead of what is happening but I can't help myself from doing so. I am sorry to others if this seams self centered and maybe I should not have put my honest feelings on this or any board. This is me, tell it like I see it. Bash me if you want! Like larry I try not to get into political discussions or religion and don't really want to argue or debate this. Just fealt the need to state my belief and hope that others would understand. If not there is nothing I can do about it because that is how I feal. Hope you all have a happy new year and may peace prevail. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 567 Registered: Apr-04 | "No man is an island, Entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. Each man's death diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee." - John Donne |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Kegger - When the simple act of repealing the tax cuts to the super rich would restore billions into our government's coffers, I see little possibility of the U.S. not having the money it needs in an emergency. However, since this President refuses to take a penny away from the wealthiest in this nation to pay for his growing deficits (he is the eternal frat boy after all), I can see where you might get the impression the U.S. could be in trouble in the near future. The debt we are going to pass on to the next generations of Americans is staggering and only growing larger with each "accomplishment" of this Administration. What you, and many others, aren't seeing is the real danger to our economic well being is more likely to come from the weakest dollar in history coupled with the false propping up of our economy by foreign interests that dislike our low return on investments. As our national and personal debt continues to grow at now record rates, should any of these foreign investors decide to call in what is owed them, the U.S. economy would likely collapse as quickly as a straw hut in the path of the oncoming tsunami. That is what I am concerned about and it is under the control of our government to deal with the problem. Neither candidate addressed this situation during the campaign and the President continues to present the American people with a sham "crisis" that will, with his proposed resolutions, only line the pockets of the ultra wealty once again. Kegger, if there is a cause for alarm, my opinion is, be alarmed at the shift in wealth that is occurring across the globe, and, the disappearance of the middle class. This is no conspiracy theory on the order of DVD-A or SACD, instead, this is quite real. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | The U.S. has increased its commitment to aid to $350 million. While quite a substantial increase over the previous level of $35 million, this still represents about 1/3 of what was spent overall during the last election cycle. And, it is still less than the amount Americans will spend this coming year on the products and process of hair removal or teeth whitening. It is a paltry sum when compared to what we, as a nation, will spend on video games. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 351 Registered: Oct-04 | Well, we all made it. Those of us who awake to hot coffee and cold orange juice - and perhaps the wee bit of a headache that follows night-before champagne? Eh? Well - here we are - in the land of "milk and honey." And happy to be here. But scared to be here, too. Jan, you are right in your assessments of things political and economic. Kegger, you are right in your concerns about economic hardships on the horizon. The two views are not antagonistic, merely skewed in a time-frame. If the US economic situation continues on its downward spiral, and I see nothing to indicate a turn-around, then not only our children, but their children as well, will face a world more akin to "third world" conditions than the relative luxury we enjoy. Mer and I are easily appalled - all we have to do is open the morning paper and read the ads, then read the stories of privation. How many kinds of "lurid purple eye shadow" does a woman need? How many hundreds of horsepower does a man need in his tank-like SUV? And on it goes. . . As I posted earlier, the little townhouse we bought two years ago for $177,000 is now worth just under $300,000 - and people all around us are selling their places, for their asking prices, within a week of listing. There are no more "affordable" houses here in Collier county. The musicians, teachers, et al either have an "older" home, or live in adjoining counties, where the obscene wealth is not quite as evident. Mer and I had hoped to scrimp enough to travel to London next fall - for some concerts and bookstore-browsing, etc. Based on the dollar float, little chance of that happening. Oh, I am not sitting here birching, but I am concerned that a monetary disaster on a par with the horrible physical disaster now playing out in Thailand, etc., might befall us. Ghia: thank you! Haven't read the Donne in years, and am both surprised and delighted that there are people such as you on this thread who have a breadth of knowledge, and are not hesitant to express it. With that - a Happy New Year to you all - again. And may your fondest wishes come true, and your worst fears be groundless. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - Unfortunately one of the first victims of the robust economy has been housing. While home ownership is at record levels, personal bankruptcies are surpassing the percentage of new home owners. Low interest rates encourage the average American consumer to buy "a little more house" instead of buying what they can actually afford. NPR ran an article stating new studies indicate a worker making the $5.15 minimum wage would have to work 80 hours a week to afford a one bedroom apartment in all but a few counties in the U.S. I have lived in the cheap section of Dallas for the past twenty years and owned (?) my home for the past ten years. The home values have increased three fold since I made the purchase. I have no idea how people afford a home today, especialy if they have children. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Ghia - I am a rock, I am an island. I've built walls, a fortress steep and mighty. I am shielded in my armor. And a rock feels no pain, and an island never cries. Simon and Garfunkel |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 352 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V - well, sir, down heah in Swampville, the bankruptcy rate is nowhere the same as the rest of the country - at least according to the paper. And the house-money keeps flowing in, along with the baby-boomers, who are bringing in the results of sold businesses, and other "windfall profit" bundles. All the banks here reported more than 256% increase in holdings last year - and four more banks opened their doors. No, this is not a typical home-buying town. But I agree with your comments re bankruptcy and ability to buy a home. Mer and I could no way afford our own home now! Fortunately, Florida "caps" us old fogies, and can't raise our home value by more than 3% a year, and the property tax thus stays rather level. Without that - we'd be in a tent! And ah, yes - Rocks, Islands, Shielded, Armor, no pain. But look what happened: Simon and Garfunkel broke up! So much for solidarity! (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 568 Registered: Apr-04 | Jan, You might be interested in the first google result if you query for "a rock feels no pain" http://www.availablelightonline.com/manhood.html I only made it through the first 3 parts before I became repulsed. This man clearly has "issues". Who the hell are they trying to convert anyway? |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 569 Registered: Apr-04 | Of couse, a man reading that same article might find himself in complete agreement with the author. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1221 Registered: Aug-04 | J Vigne said: "My question to you is this. What do you think we should do?" Ghia Cabriolet said: I'm sorry, but how can there ever be "too much" help? Okay, who sold their audio gear to raise more cash for the disaster fund? Since we are letting all here know we are a such charitable and compassionate lot because we gave a few dollars away, who has compromised their own safety net with their sizable donation? I'll admit that we haven't. I fail to understand what Kegger's comment has to do with your opinions about the state of your nation. We are talking about a current disaster and no change of political trend is about to occur overnight to satisfy anyone's idea of how to manage the economy. Kegger makes a good point in that no government should jeopardise its own country's economy or future for that would be grossly incompetent and dangerous. That is not to say every country should not help to its maximum ability. This is a distaster of epic and shocking proportions - not an election. Soapboxes could be put to better use imo. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 570 Registered: Apr-04 | Thanks for the chastisment, MR. You've become a real pro at that over the past few months. You've accused others of arrogance and condescension quite often. There's been more than once when I've wondered if you've recognized your own contributions in that area. There. I said it out loud this time. My regrets for this pettiness when so much horror is going on in the world. I believe my time on this forum is over. It's been an enlightening experience in many ways (some unexpected) and I appreciate all the advice and laughs given so generously over the past few months. Take care, all. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1222 Registered: Aug-04 | Here we go again. Ghia, everything you disagree with is a chastisement. You can dish it out also but can't take it. We have all stated previously that this thread is not for spruking politics. You jumped on Kegger's view so: 'glass houses etc. Sorry I upset your sensitivites. :-( |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2061 Registered: Dec-03 | GHIA: "I believe my time on this forum is over. It's been an enlightening experience in many ways (some unexpected) and I appreciate all the advice and laughs given so generously over the past few months." I feal the same way a lot of times with some of the topics or how they are put accross. But most of the time I bite my toungue and hope they will pass before it gets to much! Then something is said that just makes you react! We are all different and have our own views of how some things should and shouldn't be done. But To a certain degree I see where rantz is coming from with some of the "preaching so to speak" about morals or politics! To tell someone what there morals should be or for politics to enter a non political type of forum where others may not be prepared to defend or even want to attend can very well get peopole upset! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 735 Registered: Dec-03 | I just wanted to drop in to wish everyone a Happy New Year. So much for the "Peace on earth and good will towards men" stuff, HEH? All I can say is that you couldn't pay me to join in this mess at the moment. I know what you mean by biting your lip, Kegger. If I stayed at this time, it would be like pulling the pin on a live grenade. Hope you all have a better tomorrow. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2707 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, Please post from time to time. Your John Donne was the best post on this thread for a long time. I have been meaning to thank you for the Firefox recommendation, too. It is archives back. This forum format seems to be for those with no long-term memory, but I value yours, and others, contributions, and the things written that stay with us count the most. I take My Rantz's point, and agree that this issue is too important for politics. Personally, I salute the US and Japan for increasing their aid for the tsumani disasters. It has to take time, in a democracy, to make decisions on behalf of millions of poeple. But what we think about the politics does not matter. Underwriting damage limitation, and prevention of further tragedy, are what counts, now. Thanks to all here for so generously sharing their views. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Well! Here we go again. What a dysfunctional little group we've become. And, once again, I can't see why. Rantz, you quoted my question to Kegger as if it offended you. I'm curious why that would be. It was just a question. I didn't imply Kegger lacked any moral values. Did I? I don't know how it could be interpreted that way. It was one simple question to a topic Kegger brought to the table. I'm not attacking Kegger by saying he made the statement and I asked the question. Am I? If so I'd like to know where that occurred. There seemed to be no problem until Billy showed up. I can only assume no one thought my post about the caller was intended to be a political statement, as there seemed to be no direct response to my post that indicates any misunderstanding. When Billy entered the picture, I said this thread had stayed away from politics and suggested he do the same. What transpired between Ghia, Billy and myself was only between the three of us. Ghia and I apologized to the rest of you for the disruption. We seem to be OK to that point and it could have easily gone away. It was at that point Kegger made his statement that wasn't meant to stir the pot or start a debate. Whether it was his intention or not, Kegger's statement introduced the discussion of moral values. As you can see from the time on Kegger and my posts, I thought for several hours about whether to even respond to Kegger's remark. When I did, I tried to do so in a nonjudgemental way that merely presented some facts that I felt had no political overtones to them. They are facts that I felt anyone could agree to. If you felt offended by any moral judgements you thought I was intending, I do feel you read more into my remarks than was actually there. Once again they are facts and were intended as nothing more. Surely no one was suprised to find the American people spend enormous amounts of money on their pets?! Or that we have waste in government? So my question was simply to find out what Kegger had in mind when he brought up the subject. Since he seemed to want to dicsuss this issue I thought it fair to give him the oportunity to express his thoughts. I cannot see how my question should have been mistaken for anything more. What would you have us do? A simple, single question. No more, no less. It was an opportunity for Kegger to say what he wanted to say. Rantz, I don't see what you think is in there that upset you. " Kegger makes a good point in that no government should jeopardise its own country's economy or future for that would be grossly incompetent and dangerous." I doubt anyone would disagree that it is gross incompetence to endanger a nation's economic future. But, when we, as Americans, are told we can ignore $1 trillion dollars in deficit spending, the amount we spend on foreign assistance is unlikely to be the straw that broke the camel's back. None the less, I can only see where Kegger is the single person to have introduced this topic up to that point. So, Rantz, what got you upset at that point? Was it the Simon and Garfunkel or the John Donne? Or was it what Larry said? That would be hard to imagine since you seem to direct your comments at me and Ghia. Once again we have Rantz seeing Kegger's point and Kegger seeing where Rantz is coming from. And I appear to once again be the target of your displeasure. Kegger claims "preaching so to speak" about morals or politics. Apparently I have been trying "to tell someone what there morals should be ... " and I have allowed "politics to enter a non political type of forum where others may not be prepared to defend or even want to attend" and the result is I have "get peopole upset!" And once again, I have to say, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. As I've gone back and read the posts several times and laid it out as I see it, I don't know what either of you are upset about. I don't see where I suggested what morals any of you should have. (It wasn't the remark about hair removal, was it?) First it was your hifi, now it's your morals; you see me as such a cad! I would like to know where all this "problem" occurred. As Kegger and I have discussed on another thread where he mistook what I wrote, occasionally I fail to make my comments absolutely clear. All these keys, you know, sometimes I use too many, sometimes not enough. However, quite often the mistake is not mine in writing, but, the reader's in reading. Such was the case Kegger and I had on the other thread. If one you of fellows would explain to me where the slight occurred, maybe we can resolve this with no hard feelings. For, Rantz, if you truly "fail to understand what Kegger's comment has to do with your opinions about the state of your nation", I would say you fail to understand Kegger's comment. If you feel I expressed unwarranted opinions about the state of my nation, tell me where. For I feel you have misread my comments. After all, it is my country, last I checked I had the right to express my opinion. And certainly to repeat basic facts about my country. Kegger, if you feel I interjected politics "where others may not be prepared to defend or even want to attend", I would suggest it was you who brought the subject up. I'm sorry if you weren't prepared to defend your comment. Maybe I misread your comment as wanting to discuss your thoughts. But I don't feel I challenged you in any way, merely offered you the opportunity to say what you thought. After all, it was just a simple, single question. Now, if you can explain how and where I have wronged you two again, maybe we can get this over with and no one need get upset. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 353 Registered: Oct-04 | Uh, hello? Well, the week ahead should be very interesting. I'll be in receipt of a fine NAD receiver, and will post my listening-results. If the NAD doesn't solve my perceived problems, I don't know what to do! The Paradigm Studio 20 I brought home to audition sounded not-so-great here - so, the problem had to be either the Onkyo receiver or the room - right? Could it be anything else? Anyway, I fail to see how the room could make that much difference, as it's neither too "live" or too "dead." I've heard so much about the NAD 763 - and UPS should bring one to my door Monday afternoon. Happy New Year? Heck, if those darned Polk speakers sound good, it will be a very good year, indeed! Anybody else watch "Die Fledermaus" on PBS New Year's Eve? A fairly good production - with some grand "surprise" entertainment in the middle! More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1223 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan (and everyone), The political comments of yours and others Jan, critising the Bush government contributions made me consider all views including Ghia's comment a little hyprocritical in the sense that we all could put more into the coffers of the disaster fund than we have before endangering our own financial standings. If anything else was read into my comment and it touched on a nerve then so be it - because what said between the lines was done to make a point without causing offence and embarrassment. Obviously I was too overt. And Jan, to say your comments or anyone elses "upset me" is just putting words in my mouth - once again - and I believe I can enter any discussion on this board as you and others do all the time when it seemes it did not matter who started it and who the discussion was between. So, for peace and the well being of you all, I may not leave this forum entirely but I WILL stay out of YOUR threads and mind my own business. My last word here is that - IMHO - those who wish to engage in long-winded lectures or debates about politics or religion should find an appropriate forum or at least start an appropriate thread so that others don't have to wade through it all to see who has input something of interest to them. Happy New Year! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2062 Registered: Dec-03 | This is my thoughts of how some of this started and my views at this point. The following is somewhat cronolocal and I hope not to offend anyone mentioned. ____________ John A. So far, the nation that has handled this with greatest dignity, compassion, and common sense, as far as I can see, is India. They have massive losses themselves, and are still down there in Sri Lanka doing more than anybody else, just because they know they are their little neighbour's only hope. Also, the pro rata aid from Canada, so far, should make Americans think hard, in my view. What's the relative population and GDP of Canada compared to the US? 10%? _______________________ Don RX-1 I couldn't help thinking...if the tsunami tragedy had happened to France or Canada, or any other nation that refused to go along with GWB's plan to invade Irag, then that asinine remark that Jan heard on the radio would or could have gained some support from misguided patriots, not to mention the Jon Stewarts, the Jay Lenos, and the David Lettermans who are always looking for an opportunity to throw darts at other countries. _______________________ Ghia Cabriolet Count me in as one who was disgusted by the US's initial paltry aid offering. Everything the Bush administration is doing now has the appearance of "reactive" instead of "proactive". Yet another example of the overall cluelessness of the Bushies. Even with the increase of the aid to $35 million it is an embarassment not only based on GDP but also in comparison to the estimated cost to inaugrate Bush which is expected to be $30-40 million excluding security costs. In the long run, I believe the US contribution will be far greater than what is currently promised but the damage has already been done. ______________________________________________________________ Then billy b00b stepped in and the whole thing came crashing down. ____________ Then this was quoted by ghia: _____________ "Second, Bush is an MBA, so he knows very well the difference between absolute numbers and per capita ones. Let's see, Australia offered US $27 million in aid for victims of the tsunami. Australia's population is about 20 million. Its gross domestic product is about $500 billion per year. Surely anyone can see that Australia's $27 million is far more per person than Bush's $35 million. Australia's works out to $1.35 per person. The US contribution as it now stands is about 9 cents per person..... ....Bush's underlining of the $2.5 billion he says the United States gave in emergency humanitarian aid last year annoyed the hell out of me. He said it was 40% of such monies given by the industrialized world. But the US is the world's largest economy, and neither on a per capita basis nor as a percentage of GDP is that very much money. Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world.... ....The US Federal budget in 2004 consists of about $1.8 trillion in receipts and $2.3 trillion in expenditures. The 2003 official development assistance budget was $15 billion (a very large portion of which goes to countries that don't need the assistance, and is given for strategic reasons). That is about 0.14 percent of the US GDP. Norway, in contrast, spends $2 billion a year on humanitarian assistance, which comes to almost a full 1.0 percent of its GDP. " _______________ Then jan: "Billy, my boy, I have to agree with you on this one. With what George has done to the dollar, it doesn't buy much against other currencies anymore. How about we measure it in Euro's and see how much our contribution adds up to." _______________ But then jan came back with a good one: IN MY OPPINION! " Billy, politics have stayed out of this thread for a long time. We have people of diferent persausions about their political beliefs, and we have tried to respect the difference of opinion that exists. You, however have come into this thread and decided to argue politics. I find that very bothersome. I also find it very disturbing that someone who has never appeared on this thread now decides, as Billy Bob, to make the issue a matter of disagreement. It seems odd to me you just happened to stumble across this thread when the discussion turned to this topic. I feel there is more to this than you let on. The ability to hide behind "Billy Bob" is too convenient. " _________________ Then ghia and the idiot billy get into it some more and drag jan in. ___________________ Then I state this from all the other responses I've seen and feel the need to confess so to speak! I don't see any politics in it just voicing my view. "While I'm certainly not backing billy boy's sentiments, I hait to admit I have asked myself before if the us is spreading it'self to thin with all the aid that it has given to other countries. Sorry guy's and gal's just being honest. I want to help others and feel we should. But I have wondered if maybe we have done too much at times. That's all I have to say, don't mean to stir the pot or get a debate going." __________________________ Then Jan, I get a giant response from you quoting all kinds of facts that does look like an attack on me when I said I didn't want to stir or debate. "Kegger - I've thought about this and decided to ask you a single question. Before I do let me give a few facts which I'm certain you are already familiar with but others may need to know before they can understand my question to you. I will attempt to make my statements as apolitical as possible under the circumstances. As a nation we are the richest country in the world and the only Superpower. As a nation we have more billionaires than any other country. As a nation we have allocated over $225 billion to the war in Iraq, not including operations in Afghanistan and other areas of the world. We have projections of an occupation in Iraq that might last another 20 years. The Pentagon will cut $60 billion from its 2005 budget. That represents a cut of approximately 2 1/2%. As a nation we have just released a federal employee tasked with handling the taxpayer's money because he failed at his job. That 55 year old man is going to make $143,000 per month for the rest of his life. His pension and stock options aren't included in that figure. The CEO of a major New York brokerage firm made $20 million this last year, in bonuses alone. As a nation we have an entertainer who has been dead for more than 25 years whose estate made almost $40 million last year. Americans will spend about $2.5 billion on their pets this coming year. The President wants to make his tax cuts permanent. They are now responsible for over 40% of the $1 trillion (that's $1,000,000,000,000) deficit we have accrued over the past four years. Over 80% of those tax cuts go to the top 5%. As the President pointed out in his campaign, rich people don't pay taxes, they are rich enough to hire lawyers. That deficit number doesn't include the $500+ billion that will be the projected cost of the Medicare reforms. It doesn't include the projected $1 trillion to be spent on privatizing Social Security. We have, as a nation, deployed a missile defense system that doesn't work, at unrevealed cost, against an enemy that doesn't exist. Sales of luxury cars, homes and boats are at record levels. We are, as a nation, so I've heard, a Christian people. Christ said how you treat the poorest among you is how you treat Him. The average per capita income of many of the countries stricken by this disaster is less than $350. My question to you is this. What do you think we should do? " _______________________ I really didn't want to comment on as I am a bush supporter and with the earlier remarks about bush and his missgivens I realy don't want to participate and had stated that. But since I was asked it was eating at me to answer so I did. "Jan: "My question to you is this. What do you think we should do?" If you read my post I never said we should not help! My statemeant was I have asked myself at one time or another "not neccaseraly right now" If a country has or could ever go to far in aid to other countries where it has extended it'self to far for it's own good or being able to help others in the future. That's all no more no less! If I had to vote weather we should help these other countries or the relief efforts right now I would vote in favor of doing so! But I also can admit I have my doughts as to weather or not that one country "any country not just the us" can give all the aid it can and not be harmed later on down the road from a catastrophie of it's own or possably being attacked by someone else when there resources are low. Maybe I'm thinking more into the future of what could happen instead of what is happening but I can't help myself from doing so. I am sorry to others if this seams self centered and maybe I should not have put my honest feelings on this or any board. This is me, tell it like I see it. Bash me if you want! Like larry I try not to get into political discussions or religion and don't really want to argue or debate this. Just fealt the need to state my belief and hope that others would understand. If not there is nothing I can do about it because that is how I feal. ". ______________________ Then jan you came back again with more political views. In my oppinion. And again put down the president I voted for. "Kegger - When the simple act of repealing the tax cuts to the super rich would restore billions into our government's coffers, I see little possibility of the U.S. not having the money it needs in an emergency. However, since this President refuses to take a penny away from the wealthiest in this nation to pay for his growing deficits (he is the eternal frat boy after all), I can see where you might get the impression the U.S. could be in trouble in the near future. The debt we are going to pass on to the next generations of Americans is staggering and only growing larger with each "accomplishment" of this Administration. What you, and many others, aren't seeing is the real danger to our economic well being is more likely to come from the weakest dollar in history coupled with the false propping up of our economy by foreign interests that dislike our low return on investments. As our national and personal debt continues to grow at now record rates, should any of these foreign investors decide to call in what is owed them, the U.S. economy would likely collapse as quickly as a straw hut in the path of the oncoming tsunami. That is what I am concerned about and it is under the control of our government to deal with the problem. Neither candidate addressed this situation during the campaign and the President continues to present the American people with a sham "crisis" that will, with his proposed resolutions, only line the pockets of the ultra wealty once again. Kegger, if there is a cause for alarm, my opinion is, be alarmed at the shift in wealth that is occurring across the globe, and, the disappearance of the middle class. This is no conspiracy theory on the order of DVD-A or SACD, instead, this is quite real. " ___________________________ During all these disussions I had said nothing and like I said bit my tounge as the us and bush were being bashed. Then all I said was . "While I'm certainly not backing billy boy's sentiments, I hait to admit I have asked myself before if the us is spreading it'self to thin with all the aid that it has given to other countries. Sorry guy's and gal's just being honest. I want to help others and feel we should. But I have wondered if maybe we have done too much at times. That's all I have to say, don't mean to stir the pot or get a debate going." with everything else that was going on with this thread all I did was meantion that I had asked myself before if a country can spread it'self to thin for it's own good. _________________________ Before I realized what was coming back at me for my statement I wished I had never said it and said I was sorry for even saying it but that it was my honest feelings. ____________________________ Now jan you say "So my question was simply to find out what Kegger had in mind when he brought up the subject. Since he seemed to want to dicsuss this issue " Why would you think that when I said "That's all I have to say, don't mean to stir the pot or get a debate going" That to me meant here is my liitle bit I want to admit but don't mean to cause any contriversey or discussion. ____________________________ I think we would all agree billy boy got this whole thing rolling more than it would have been but to me politics were started before he got here then were hightened with him then my statemeant was made and I seemed to be attacked for it. (That's what I think rantz was refering to) __________________ Personally I take and took offense to the bashing of bush and the us. Then being chastise for my admitting I had wonderd about a country going to far. I'm not saying that I can't get over it or that I've never said anything to affend anyone. I can get over it as long as the political views stay away and my beliefs are not trashed by others who feel different than I. Meaning politics, talk about bush in general being run through the mud. I can understand that others may not like bush and feel that what he is doing and has done is wrong. I have no problem with that. But when it comes out in a forum where politics is not the thread or the forum then I do. I don't argue politics or religion I feel those are sacred things for individuals but if it's the topic of a thread or forum that is fine and others may contribute but I will stay away. (I thought this thread was exempt from that!) __________________________- I know we struggle for topics from time to time and we stray off the beaten path and if the topic does not interest all of us then we just contribute when one does. But We need to try and be careful sometimes that the topics we discuss may bother others. ____________________ I know from time to time I've taking peoples remarks the wrong way and have had mine misquoted, also understand as Larry and John A have mentioned the written word does not allways come accross as intended but some things seem so blaiten in there wording that it is hard to believe they could of been meant any other way. _________________ And ghia if I have in any way dissed you for your thoughts or beliefs it was truly not done on purpose or it was a quick reaction to something I felt slighted on and for that I am sorry. _____________________________ I for one am not that upset to where I can't continue and hope I have not upset someone else to where they can not. I sincerely am sorry for hurting anyones feelings or stepping on anyones toes. And hope this puts an end to my part about this whole issue. I am not looking to discuss these issues , just putting accros my feelings so others know! __________________________ Thank anyone and all for taking the time to read this and hope all understand correctly where I'm coming from. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 354 Registered: Oct-04 | To all: Sorry, I guess I should not have posted my January 1st 11:16 p.m. comments. I mistakenly thought this to be a forum where we could discuss music and stereo equipment and our respective feelings on things musical. Guess I was wrong. When - or if - this thread returns to what I thought it to be I shall be grateful. Oh, and don't think I'm "leaving" - I am not. I just want to "talk" about things like music, and speaker placement, and new-found CDs, etc. You all have been such help to me, and I'm hoping to "re-file" my comments on the NAD, etc., when I feel somebody might be listening? Oh, yes - and for anybody who thinks I might be "BillyBob" writing in secret - no way! I thought it might be John A., though! (GRIN) Hope to get all my friends back soon! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 736 Registered: Dec-03 | No Larry, I think some may have thought I was Billy. The "hiding behind your dog tags" reference was just too well chosen. If I am wrong, I sincerely apologize. The one thing you should know about me by now is, if I have something to say, my name is always attached to the post. I don't hide.....period. Congrats on the new NAD. I wish you and Mer many hours of listening pleasure. I hope you had a great New Year. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 355 Registered: Oct-04 | Rick, et al. I hope my reference to John A. being "BB" was taken the way it was meant - totally tongue-in-cheek! BTW, Rick - you look nothing like BB! (grin) Well, the NAD isn't new - it's used, and the only way I could ever afford such equipment. But it comes from a great "home," and so I hope for the best - assuming that UPS doesn't do a "Ghia" on it and smash it up. You remember the pics that Ghia sent of the "wounded" Mac, don't you? Ouch - it hurt just to see the pics! And Rick, thanks for the good listening-wishes. If the NAD doesn't solve my sound problems, you may hear long-distance sounds of a head smashing against a wall!! (double grin) And Happy Year to you and your family, sir. More anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 393 Registered: Mar-04 | Happy New Year everybody. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rick, you were wrong. I chose the words because I felt our uninvited guest was all bark and no bite. I made a wrong decision if it offended you. I apologize for any slight that was taken. As with Rick, anyone who doesn't think I will make it as plain as I possibly can when I want to say something hasn't been paying attention to my posts. Miscommunication can, and does, occur. As I have stated before, my name is on the top of each post. If you think I am long winded and my views are not what you wish to read, it is your choice to stay or go. I have no control over that. I would actually prefer you pass them by rather than stay and be offended. It gets tiresome being called names. Not that it bothers me. Over the years I have developed a very thick skin. Something I feel is a good attribute. I often wish more people had the same. Things would be more peaceful all over the planet. So, please, make your choice to stay or go rather than fight over percieved attacks and misread comments. For, you see, all this bickering breaks my rhythm. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 356 Registered: Oct-04 | Sem: And Happy New Year to you and your family, sir! Jan V. (blush) good grief! I hope nothing I've said has "broken your rhythm!" I mean, that's Serious! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2063 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm still here! I was asked to explain myself and I did. No name calling or malicous intent was meant. Oh and just for anyone thinking bob was I. No way , Do not agree with the B00B. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2709 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes, guys, this was all started by a misunderstanding. Billy Bob knows how to wind people up. Some people are easy to wind up. That's me, for a start. BTW I am not Billy Bob, and he is not me; just so you know. I am apolitical. Her Majesty has made a personal contribution; that's all I need to know. (weak attempt at humour). Larry, I think you have made a really good choice in getting a "pre-owned" NAD receiver. That is just what I did. If there is a problem, it is built like a tank, anything in there can be fixed at modest cost, and NAD are keen to help owners, even second or third ones; and not caring whether it is new, or even a current model. Often things sold have been in storage, unused for while; if it loses its pre-sets and radio tunings, after an hour or so powered off completely, it is just an internal battery that cannot hold charge - easy to replace. You can even just leave it on standby (a good idea anyway) but it is a pain to have to re-set all those thing after a power cut. Also, the first production runs of the NAD 763 had some models with some sort of hiss from the surround processor, according to threads on this forum. Watch out for that. But if it is there, don't let it get to you, just get it fixed; it is not a big deal. The unit is fundamentally a good design. Especially for people who like music. Most likely you will have no problems and it will run for years, but just in case: do you have a warranty? If you get problems of any kind, drop me a line. I know the T760 pretty well, by now, for an amateur. The T763 has more power and features, but is basically the same, and it will not disappoint you, I am sure. You will have the "stereo direct" function and that is the way to go for CD etc. By the way, you can get the specs, data sheets, and even the full user manual as pdf files, free, from http://www.nadelectronics.com/support/manuals_framset.htm If it comes with the "learning" HTR-2 remote, it is a beauty, and will control your whole system, once you have learned how to program it. (It only takes about a week....) The manual for that is on that link, too. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - Anyone who has even sprained their rhythm can tell you how painful it can be. A broken one can leave you limping along for ages. And, no, you have not come near damaging my rhythm. Good luck with the NAD. I found the owner's manual for my T752 to be, in my opinion, one of the worst I had seen in a long time. Little space devoted to explanations in one language. Lots of space devoted to not explaining in many languages. However, the Toshiba 4960 manual put it to shame for lack of information and misdirection in almost as many languages. Patience and a bit of knowledge will get you through the NAD, but, nothing suficed with the Toshiba. I finally got a call back, nearly eight weeks after my question was asked, to be told the engineers "think" this is how it works. The Toshiba itself is, of course, long gone. Along with my money so far. I have yet to recieve a refund from eBuyer and have had no response to my calls. As to B.B., Esq., hopefully he shall pass into the same area of my memory I reserve for tick bites and unpleasant bowel activity. I assumed none of the regulars here of any foul behavior such as he displayed. It just seemed odd he would show up at the particular time he chose. I have a personal problem with watchdogs of thinking. Most especially the self appointed ones. And most especially those that can't read or understand what has been said. A quirk in my character. Make of that comment what you will. I know what I mean. |
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Silver Member Username: OjophileON Post Number: 205 Registered: Jun-04 | To all: Happy New Year! and let's all start 2005 on a jolly note. Going back to audio/video matters, here's the article Party Like It's 1979 from Stereophile's January 2005 issue, page 5 of the column, "As We See It" by Jon Iverson. http://www.geocities.com/audiomatterz/asweseeit.html http://www.stereophile.com/contents105/ Peace and goodwill to all! Don |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 737 Registered: Dec-03 | .........tick bites and unpleasant bowel activity? Now that's the Jan I know and love. LOL! For the record, you have to excuse people like Billy, they are born _ _ _ holes, and just grow bigger. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | The feeling is mutual, Rick. i.e. Billy, what a revolting thought. Is that why stuff just runs out? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | By the way, Rick, go pincha u chicks! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 357 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - thanks for your comments. I'm getting the NAD from a "trusted source," but don't know yet about warranties, etc. Will post when I get. Jan - no, sprained rhythms are just as bad as broken ones - they simply dis-entangle your synapses, and thus black-hole your life! GRIN OK - got the doc's Onkyo all wired up and set to go - then turned on the switch. Sweat pouring down my back by this time! Long time in the cabinet, doing the wire-connect thant. Presto! the sound came on loud and clear, and that ole Onkyo sounded better than I've ever heard it? Whew! Don't have to give back the money, and I'm free to spend it on the new NAD. So - why the difference in sound? I give up. I really do. I'm just too much of a dope to try to understand it all. Sigh. Will post any and all reviews of the new-used NAD when/if it gets here Monday. Sigh. At the rate I'm going, I'll be lucky to get it by Christmas - 2005!!!!! More anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 358 Registered: Oct-04 | OOOPS - how about, in third paragraph: "wire-connect THING?" Hmm. . . makesmore sense. Sorry. |
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Silver Member Username: OjophileON Post Number: 206 Registered: Jun-04 | OK - got the doc's Onkyo all wired up and set to go... Larry, (ahem), I think you lost me there, but I was following your "Is-it-the-speaker-or-amp" saga and was confused by the "doc's Onkyo" part. Where did that come from? (double-grin) Anyway, keep us posted on the NAD thingy and let us know if it does breathe new life to the Polks. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | " ... and thus black-hole your life!" Better a black hole than a brown hole. Too much of the latter lately. I've lived in the former. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 359 Registered: Oct-04 | Hmmm. . - uh, Don, I'm trying to keep threads on three forums going at once, and get confused, a LOT! Sooo . . . I agreed to buy a used NAD from a friend. Then I found that my doc-friend whose Sunfire was fried by his wife when she poured latte' over it wanted to buy my Onkyo to replace it. Sold and delivered it to him last night - $375. He got a "deal!" OK So - today, I went over to his house to hook up the Onkyo. If I let him do it he'd short out every other circuit! So I did the grunt-work for him. Great. It sounded better there than it's ever sounded here! Go figger. Anyway, they're happy - and I'm now awaiting delivery of my new/old NAD - supposed to be here tomorrow. (Monday) Sigh. Am I keeping up here? Hope so. Anyway, things are changing, and I hope that the NAD will, indeed, "breathe new life" into the Polks. If not, well - they're going, too!!!! JV - hmmm - after due thought, black may indeed be better than brown - in this case! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2710 Registered: Dec-03 | I have a personal problem with watchdogs of thinking. Most especially the self appointed ones. And most especially those that can't read or understand what has been said. A quirk in my character. Make of that comment what you will. I know what I mean. So do I, Jan. Yes, NAD manuals used to be clear and concise. They are now translated, but cannot have made sense even in the original language, whatever it was. The pdfs are good (see link to Larry) because you can search, and you can download in the language of your choice, e.g. Italian. Unfortunately the list does not include Latin or Welsh, unlike translations of Harry Potter. Don, Great link. Thanks. I persist in my opinion that DVD-A and "surround sound" have something to offer, however. You can already "stream" DTS and Dolby Digital reading from iTunes, from a computer. You would be able to do the same with DVD-A if the industry could stop thinking protectionism will work, and let receivers incorporate the processing. Not so SACD. There is also no reason why you should not get multi-channel on an iPod. At present the software does not cater for it, but that is largely because people have only two ears, I suspect. Re market research and the industry execs still living in the 70s, I was reminded of the comment of Issigonis, who designed the mini, when asked about how he identified the market niche that made it so popular. He said something link "We never did market research. Market research is a waste of time. I am an engineer, and my job is to design something according to what I think is a good idea. If I am doing my job, people will find it useful, and want to buy it". |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 360 Registered: Oct-04 | ENDING CONFUSION? To all: starting out a new week, and I realize that, among private e-mails and several open forums, I've been omitting chunks of information. Here's my recent life in outline form. I'm neither mad at nor feeling insulted by anybody, at least on the Ole Dawgs forum! (grin) You all know my angst regarding sound. OK. Ghia and I made a quiet deal for me to buy her NAD so she could buy new parts for her Mac, etc. Meanwhile, my doc-friend decided NOT to replace his Sunfire with another, but to buy my Onkyo instead. I think "charity" was on his mind? I went over Sunday to hook it up, and must admit it sounds much better there than it ever did here! Mer unexpectedly sold a painting and a small sculpture, and agreed that we need to do something to improve the sound. She's getting a tooth extracted, not crowned, so we saved a bit of money there, too. (the hard way!!!) With the Ghia-deal, and the doc-deal, and the Mer OK, the doc has the Onkyo, I'm getting Ghia's NAD this afternoon, and Mer loses a tooth tomorrow, and is keeping her fingers crossed that the NAD WILL sound better! (grin) I think that brings us up to date. Sigh. More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2068 Registered: Dec-03 | That's good news to hear lar for you and ghia. hope it all works out. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 361 Registered: Oct-04 | Kegger: Thanks - the UPS site FINALLY has the NAD out for delivery today. It has sat in a Jacksonville, Florida, warehouse since last Thursday, and it has been Very frustrating! So many people have told me that I'm "nutz" when I say the Polk speakers don't sound very good. But then, when I read what amplifiers are driving theirs (NAD, B & K, Arcam, etc.) I realize that my now-departed Onkyo might not have been the best choice! And here I thought one amp was about as good as the next - given that a person used a "standard brand" amplifier, not one el-cheapo from, say, Wal-Mart. I guess there are two camps: one that says all amps sound basically alike - the other that says there are major differences both between two solid state amps, and between tube amps as well. I sure have learned a lot from this forum - and youze guyz! Just wish I'd come on here before I started upgrading my old, old stereo system! So now I'll have the Yamaha S5770 (same as the the S1500, only silver, not black) - and the NAD 763 - and the Polk RTi6 speakers - and Blue Jeans Cables for interconnects and speaker wire - and a set of brass cones that I felt made NO difference when put under the CD player(double grin) - and a lot of frustration that I'm not getting "quality" sound. YET. But after tonight, I hope things improve radically. A friend of mine in CA posted me last night that he'd got rid of his Onkyo 701 and has a new B & K (507?) Anyway - he says the different amp made a huge difference with his Polk RTi8 speakers, which are floor-standers and a bit larger than mine. Interesting that I'd auditioned both B & W 705s and Paradigm Studio 20s at our HiFi shop - and thought both sounded SO good there. USING A B&K AMP. Then, when I brought the Paradigms home, they sounded shallow and nowhere as good as they had in the shop. As you well remember - several of you on this forum urged me to move the speakers, etc. Which I did. With only limited improvement. So - now - my CA friend says the B&k made a abig difference - and perhaps the NAD will do the same? If not - WELLLLLL - I guess it will be "save up for some different speakers" time. Sigh and double-sigh! More anon - with thanks . . . |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 195 Registered: Dec-03 | The tsunami was a result of decades of rich men wandering around Indo & Thai vacation resorts in speedo's. Mother nature could not stomach it any longer. I don't blame her. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 362 Registered: Oct-04 | NAD is in, and wonderful! I've put it through its paces best I can - and still have a LOT of setting-up to do! But for now, with both FM and DVD in place, the sound is full, warm, and rich. I've neverheard the Polks sound so good! This is not an "overwhelming" change - but enough of one to make me sit up and take notice! Mer just said "keep it!" when she heard the NAD in its first playing. So we will - keep it, that is. After listening a lot, I realize that there is still one piece of the puzzle - the speakers. They are fairly good - but just don't really captivate me. I know that, within a year, I'll be a candidate for new speakers - and will shortly begin a search. Meanwhile, I'm "all ears" for the NAD and will probably spend far too much time on the couch, just listening! My thanks to Ghia for her gracious dealing, and to Kegger and all for their suggestions and ideas during this "period" in my life. Kegger - U R right, my friend - the Polks are just not quite enough. But the wallet is empty, and so it will take time. . . Don - U R right, also - I'm thinking seriously about trying to audition some PSB speakers. How I can do this, I don't know at the moment. But maybe I can throw the Polks back as surrounds, and then get some B-25s as mains? I've given up on the Paradigms - the Studio 20s, which I might afford, are just not very finished on the outside. And the upgrades are far too expensive, even if I win Lotto! So - still looking around, and hoping to finish off a really great system by the end of 2005. My last system, fer shore! I'm too old to "start all over again." More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2712 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, But maybe I can throw the Polks back as surrounds, and then get some B-25s as mains? Yes. "Way to go". Ben, The tsunami was a result of decades of rich men wandering around Indo & Thai vacation resorts in speedo's. Is that a joke? If so, it might not be so amusing to those who were there, and left behind; or to those who were there, and were not. However rich or poor they were, and whatever they were wearing at the time. "Mother nature" could not give a toss. She twitched on 26th December with a faint murmur, in her sleep, of the forces she used once, and will use again, to build continents and mountain ranges. At the summit of Mt. Everest is marine limestone, complete with fossils of sea shells, to prove the point. They got there by the plates colliding with each other, and throwing up the Himalayas. The smallest of those collisions caused the tsumami; less than a hiccup in the history of the planet we share. Mother nature was oblivious to its effects. All she knew was she felt more at ease. Either we learn to understand Mother N., and adapt; or we disappear, like the dinosaurs. We are the first species she has produced that has the slightest chance of knowing what she's up to. Whether we make use of that, or not, is up to us. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2074 Registered: Dec-03 | good post john: ""Mother nature" could not give a toss. She twitched on 26th December with a faint murmur, in her sleep, of the forces she used once, and will use again, to build continents and mountain ranges. At the summit of Mt. Everest is marine limestone, complete with fossils of sea shells, to prove the point. They got there by the plates colliding with each other, and throwing up the Himalayas. The smallest of those collisions caused the tsumami; less than a hiccup in the history of the planet we share. Mother nature was oblivious to its effects. All she knew was she felt more at ease. Either we learn to understand Mother N., and adapt; or we disappear, like the dinosaurs. We are the first species she has produced that has the slightest chance of knowing what she's up to. Whether we make use of that, or not, is up to us." your completly right with that! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2714 Registered: Dec-03 | Thank you Kegger. I am still unable to decide whether Ben was joking or not, and which would be worse. It could be me. I know I have been told here, before, to lighten up, and try to see the the joke. I've tried. If she was aiming at the rich, she chose an odd place; there are many better ones. Take your pick. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 371 Registered: Oct-04 | Kegger: Good points, sir. I think most people, in their daily grind, forget about the environment in which we live - other than worrying about heating bills and air conditioning filter-changes! "Mother Nature" has no targets, no anger, no revenge. "She" simply abides by her own laws of give-and-take - and whichever humans happen to be in the way, well, so be it. The way I look at it - if I build a house on a quake zone and it crumbles after a tembler hits, is it Mother Nature's "fault?" (sorry, had to throw in ONE pun this ayem) John A. and all NAD owners - is it just me, or is the instruction manual written to keep me ill-informed and confused? One would think that a company producing such obviously grand equipment could hire a team of writers who could produce equally good manuals! Or not? Sigh. BTW - after two days of listening, the NAD has, indeed, made a major difference in my musical enjoyment. Ghia did Mer and me a big favor, for sure! Mer had a tooth extracted in surgery yesterday, then went into shock afterwards. Last night was not good, but today should be better. Tempers my enthusiasm for new stereo equipment, obviously. On other threads there are new discussions about whether SACD is "worth it." Well, I am in the "yes" camp - though not necessarily for its "surround" qualities. As I turn down the surround speaker volume, the whisper of ambiance matters little. What I DO love about the SACDs is their rather startlingly better sound quality. At least on MOST of them I've purchased. For that, I say they did it right. BUT - for those tangly wires bulging in my stereo cabinet, I say that they may have created a monster. I may be OK with the extra work involved to get SACD "hooked up" but I know a lot of people who would call it "overkill." Jan has pointed out, correctly, that early SACDs were stereo only - and, indeed, many of them still are - one has to look closely to see which is which. A favorite Copeland album is 2-ch, as are several others I've recently bought. But I think that speaks more directly to classical re-issues than to jazz or pop-rock discs. Hoping, in this New Year, to read more from all of you who monitor this forum. Your past comments, criticisms and just plain chatter have made my life better. I think Ghia will not come back, but I like to think the basic "circle" on the Old Dawgs will not be broken permanently. Note to "SACDude" aka Franklin Kaplan - if you're still in Sarasota with your lady, let us know how everything turns out. We'd like to know where in the Denver area you're going, and if you will be putting together a "new and better" stereo system! Good luck. . . More anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 198 Registered: Dec-03 | 1. It was a Joke, but this was not a man-made act. Nature takes lives whether it be by wave, or not and this has been happening since the dawn of time. The lives lost in the tsumani were no more tragic than the ones in the snowstorm that hit the US midwest before Christmas or the ones lost in the US South from hurricanes this fall. All of the phony sentiment that I have seen is the real tradgedy here. 2. If John and Kegger were really concerned they would sell their gear on ebay and donate the proceeds. They would also stop wasting their time on-line talking about Hi-Fi and do something more charitable. I am sure they aren't all that concerned about things while they are playing with their toys. It is easy to judge others now, isn't it? 3. All you have to do is hear Star Jones talk about how the lord saved her life because her luxurious Thai honeymoon was a month ago to see how outrageous this whole thing is. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2075 Registered: Dec-03 | Ben you need to read and understand what you read! I am the one who questioned if a country could ever give to much. And all I did was say am to johns post about mother nature and her distructive forces and we need to understand and live with them. never once mentioned you or giving to charity! So get your facts straight before you right! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 199 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, Did you mean write?, because most of the time I am right. I took your comments as getting on the "high horse" like John continually tries to. If that was not your intent, then I apologize. Nature always wins, one way or another. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 372 Registered: Oct-04 | To all: In re-reading Don RX-1's January 2nd posting, I decided to also re-read his link to a Stereophile article, with rather chilling impressions on me. http://www.geocities.com/audiomatterz/asweseeit.html I know, I know - I've been "preaching the SACD gospel" on this and other threads - but am beginning to wonder about this and other "hi-res" formats, and their life span. Sigh. A friend of mine had to get her dual-disc "surgically" removed from her Pioneer player the other day. Not a good sign! I still don't understand how this industry managed to do a "Beta-VHS redux" job on us consumers. Ego? Stupidity? Both? Hmmm. . . Any and all comments welcome here, as I'm not one of the "knowledgeable" members of this forum, but one who "needs to know" so I can head in the right format-direction. Thanks to all. . . More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2717 Registered: Dec-03 | Ben, Thanks. Now, I take your point. And agree, partly. But I did not detect "phoney sentiment" on this thread. I've heard and seen plenty in the media, that's for sure. It sounds like "Star Jones" leads the race. BTW, no-one has mentioned Japan. Both the country, and the individuals, gave the most, even in absolute terms. I do think there is some underlying humanity in the responses to the disaster. Just try to filter out politicians, journalists, and various other spokesmen, and you might agree. I've seen whole pages in quality newspapers which start from the premise that the most important question is how we can reconcile this with our faith etc., which, speaking personally, makes me want to throw up. Then there is the parade of Western journalists jetted out there to take up space in helicopters that could be doing something useful. And what Colin Powell, Jack Straw and the others are doing in Indonesia, except seizing a photo opportunity, I don't know. Maybe this is sort of close to your point, Ben. If we are both on a high horse then at least we can share the view. "Nature always wins, one way or another." ---YEP--- And we are part of it. That's all we can say. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 387 Registered: Feb-04 | John A. and other ole dawgs, I used to be a news junkie, but reading or watching the media just makes me want to shake my fist and yell "I'm fed up and can't take it anymore." The media are prime culprits in creating the Orwellian world we live in. Ezra Pound once said, "Literature is news that stays news." So I turn to classic texts to remind me what it means to be human, whether it's a Jane Austen novel or the Bhagavad Gita. The same can be said about music. Listening to Bach or Beethoven or Dylan is timeless and a continuing act of humanity imho. These activities cut through the static that surround us, the sound and fury spoken by idiots. I think that is the best this hobby of ours offers. I feel the recent bickering on this thread contributes to the static that gets in the way of enjoying our hobby and retaining our humanity. We have different approaches to life and it seems the bickering arises from an intolerance of other people's views. It's unfortunate that Rantz and Ghia took things personally. I'm convinced from all their posts that they are both good people. They certainly contributed to what is good about this thread. As far as Ben's comment above, I took it as black humor. It's one approach to deal with the absurdities of life. Joseph Heller wasn't making light of the horror of war by writing a very funny novel pointing out the absurdities of the military. Let's get on with it, with what matters to us and the thread that binds us: a love of music. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 398 Registered: Mar-04 | Well put Two Cents. Thanks. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 2c - As I read it, the Orwellian world is a media driven world. That is if you can accept the idea that anything in the world of Orwell is driven. I understand your statements about turning off from media; but, isn't that exactly what Orwell preached against? If we no longer pay any attention at all to what reporting there is of the world around us, aren't we in even more danger of letting the media be dominated by those who would prefer we not realize what they are doing? Here in the US, after a very contentious election cycle, there are many who have tuned out to what has followed. Whether their hope was for a change in direction or more of the same, they reached a climax on November 3rd and are now either sitting back enjoying a cigarette or asking themselves, "That's it?" Either way they have decided to ignore the media and the world. That would appear to me to be exactly what Orwell and others, including Dylan and many classic composers, warned us against. Those who have suggested the only proper response to the world is to sell all your possessions and go forth into the leper colony are, I assume, only taking the idea to its most extreme to make a point. A black satire of sorts. Of course there has never been anyone who has lived such a life, not Mother Theresa, Jesus nor Ghandi, that suggested such action was needed to understand how to live one's life. As I read it, the comptemplation of such a life is all they requested. That comptemplation is what the music we listen to is all about. The suggestion has been made on another thread that a part of the definition of music is something that stirs the emotions. (I disagreed of course, suggesting "Chopsticks" was music that had no emotional content within its score. [I didn't even mention most of the Rick James catalog.] On the other hand, I sent a friend a disc of Edith Piaf and suggested she listen when feeling no one else in the world has suffered. The friend has responded she can't "get into" Piaf; so, so far, all is well.) If stirring the emotions is a quality, not a definition, of music, then the ability to play whatever conduit we choose to lift us from depression or to allow meditation is a reason for retaining our hifi's. Here the slogan about those who do not remember history comes to mind. In that context, I wonder whether some of the artists from the past could exist today. I doubt the bulk of Shostakovich could be written today. Judging from what little I know of the pop arena today, there doesn't appear to be a Dylan, Baez or a Simon and Garfunkel on the horizon. I also wonder whether such an idea can be discussed on this forum. Surely what would be said would be "politicized" and misunderstood by too many on both sides of the argument. Already what I have written may have been more than some would prefer. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - "for those tangly wires bulging in my stereo cabinet, I say that they may have created a monster." You can always try just two cables. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2076 Registered: Dec-03 | here is a question with no intent on anyones postings being offensive to me or anything like that. but many have said music is emotion and lyrics are the poetry "something like that" what is music? I for one on a lot of songs don't know the words or care for what there meanings are. but if they flow together and seem to have the right sound to that verse is fine with me same as the music, if it has sounds in it i like that fit together i have no idea if those notes are suppose to be joined like that because i have no musical background but as long as the notes sound cool then that is music to me. |
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J. vigne Unregistered guest | From another thread. An interesting question I would say. "I have been experimenting with the various modes on my new receiver. When people say they like plain stereo for music do they mean 2 speaker stereo or 5 speaker stereo?" https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/116394.html |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/116362.html |
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Silver Member Username: OjophileON Post Number: 208 Registered: Jun-04 | Larry, That's good news about the NAD; glad to hear it worked out well for both you and Ghia --- a "win-win" situation as corp. execs are fond of saying. I hope Mer's doing much better as you read this. Too bad you didn't like the "finish" of the Paradigms; they would have been the near-perfect complement to your NAD. I think the B25's would serve you just as well; didn't you say it was a 2-hour drive to the nearest authorized dealer in Sarasota? On another topic, if anyone is interested in the Beatles, The Capitol Albums Vol. 1 box set, check out your local Price Club (Costco) and compare their price with that of the regular record stores. I saw the item in our Costco branch here and it was CAN $18.00 less than the usual store prices. Am I that old? Cheers and keep warm (those who are in the winter belt). |
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