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New member Username: KjricePost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-04 | Any suggestions on wiring my new system. Monster just seems overpriced. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 234 Registered: Oct-04 | www.avcable.com AR Cable www.bettercables.com |
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Bronze Member Username: Jim_mcbobPost Number: 23 Registered: Nov-04 | Another option: No kidding, good quality outdoor extension cords from Home Depot, with the ends snipped and replaced with decent quality speaker connectors. Paying more only gets you bragging rights, as NO cable imparts any qualities or characteristics on a system's sound. The goal is effective transfer of electrons, and you don't need to spend $300/meter (or even $3/meter) to get that. Copper is better than Al. Beyond that, you're pissing away money. Take whatever your discretionary budget for speaker cables is, spend approx $25-50 on the Black and Decker outdoor extension cords and connectors, and put the balance (which can run into the hundreds or thousands of $$$) into the purchase price of your speakers. No other component choice will have as profound an impact on your system's sound quality. My fave scams: when the pointy-heads in audio mags claim one set of cables to be "warmer" than others, or that cables need to be "broken in." Yeah, those electrons just won't line up right unless the cable has been used for at least 100 hours... |
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Silver Member Username: StoneWest CoastUSA Post Number: 139 Registered: Dec-03 | I use Home depots 12 gauge for my longer run rear H/T speakers and it is pretty good wire. |
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Bronze Member Username: Riches1Atlanta, GA US Post Number: 98 Registered: Apr-04 | Try soundking at partsexpress.com. See the reviews at audioholics.com |
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Bronze Member Username: KjricePost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-04 | I am considering Kimber. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2346 Registered: Dec-03 | Kimber cables are excellent. |
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Gold Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 1070 Registered: Dec-03 | I would not try Sound King based on my nightmare experience with their 14 gauge that I spent 6.5 hours installing several months ago. After considerable work and many,many times up and down my basement stairs, crimping ends etc and finally hooking everything back up my system sounded absolutely horrible. Very bright and shrill;basically unlistenable.I was stunned and of course very angry after reading all the posts on this brand on this forum. I then spent another 4.5 hours redoing my system and going back to Monster Standard and that smoothed out everything. This is a very sore subject to me and I hope I do not offend anyone but Sound King is absolute garbage. Anyone who wants 200 feet of this crap is welcome to it CHEAP. |
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Silver Member Username: Riches1Atlanta, GA US Post Number: 102 Registered: Apr-04 | There is no logical explanation, everything being equal, as to why Sound King would not sound similar to Monster. Wire imparts 3 properties to a signal that affect sound: inductance, capacitance, and resistance. Audioholics.com measured Sound King and the New Monster Cable in the lab. The difference in the three properties measured between these wires was infinitesimally small. I have both The New Monster Cable and SoundKing 12AWG in my system. I have monster up front for cosmetic preferences and SoundKing running to the rears. I hear no apprecibable difference, and the rears have about a 40 foot run (down to the basement, under the living room floor, up the wall about 8 feet and over about 12 more for one speaker). There are numerous posts on this forum and all over the internet that support SoundKing as a quality,inexpensive speaker wire. Elite's bad experiece is the ONLY one I have ever read. Are you sure you didn't have your speakers wired out of phase, or that all of your connections were secure? |
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Gold Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 1071 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes and Yes and if possible I would be glad to recreate that nightmare for you and I am sure beyond any doubt you or anyone else would hear the difference easily. It was night and day. To say this was disappointing would be understating it by a lot. I don't give a damn what Audioholics, who by the way I read and is basically a site for Yamaha and Denon lovers, says. I know what I hear and the Sound King I used sucked, period. |
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Silver Member Username: Riches1Atlanta, GA US Post Number: 104 Registered: Apr-04 | Elite: Jeez, calm down. Must you always get so hostile when someone offers an opinion different from yours? I am merely offering some evidence to the contrary and suggesting some plausible explanations as to why your experience was unusual - I didn't say you were wrong. BTW - Audioholics is rated the #1 audio website on the net. And you left out Onkyo in your denegration of this superb site. (Grinnin' at 'ya - its all in good fun) |
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Gold Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 1072 Registered: Dec-03 | Riches1, I realize over the net it's hard to tell someones mood or whatever but I was not trying to be hostile at all and I do not think I "always get hostile when someone offers an opinion different" to mine. If you think so then I will refrain from commenting on any threads you are a part of. BTW, who rated Audioholics number one? Number one over this site? No way. That site is interesting but nowhere near the diversity of equipment or knowledge that can be found on this site. I don't see much Onkyo talk on either site compared to most other receivers. Please understand I have owned Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, and Elite receivers just in the last seven years and I am not prejudiced against any, just know what my ears tell me. Some have been great, some ok and a couple really awful but I would not rule out buying any if they met my needs. I have been wanting to ask you if you have owned any Denon's prior to the 2805 and 3805 and if so which ones. Also do the 2805 and 3805 sound pretty much the same or is there a large difference? I ask this because of my experience with the 2802 and 3803 which we have talked a bit about in the past. I still can't believe how different they sounded, like from two different brands. |
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Silver Member Username: Riches1Atlanta, GA US Post Number: 105 Registered: Apr-04 | Elite: NO, by all means, please respond to my posts! I always find your input very interesting. Debating with you is like debating with my best friend from college. We don't always see eye to eye either, but it is fun. I actually saw the poll that rated Audioholics.com #1 audio website on ecoustics! I had the Denon 2803 but was not fond of that receiver with the Klipsch reference speakers that I had at the time. I had a problem with one 2803 sounding very thin, the other 2803 did not sound as good with the Klipsch as Harman Kardon. I recall our discussions about your good experiences with the 2802 and bad experience with the 3803. That baffles the you- know-what out of me. I auditioned a 3803 but wound up getting an Onkyo 701. I will mention this quote from audiofile about the 3805: "the fairly ordinary sounding 3803 has turned into something quite special in the new model... The main improvements however are in the main audio chain, and can be heard as a smoother and more transparent sound quality... the most impressive sounding stereo or analogue multi-channel amplifier yet at this price point." I have read a few other reviews that note improvement in almost every aspect of the receiver in the 3805 compared to the 3803. That might explain why I wound up finally buying a Denon. I would not say that the difference in the 2805 and the 3805 was huge, but the 3805 did sound "noticeably" smoother and more dynamic. I would not characterize either as "warm" except for a tad of warmth in the midrange. You may recall that I have previously characterized both as being very neutral. I guess I am a lot like you in that I had to go through 8 receivers (2 Yamaha, 1 Onkyo, 2 H/K and 3 Denon) and 7 different speaker packages (Energy, Cambridge, Boston Acoustics, Klipsch Reference, Paradigm Mini-Monitors, Polk RTi6/Rti8 and now Axiom m22ti) over the past few years to get the sound that I was looking for. I am not even sure that I am there yet. But, with the 3805/Axiom combo, I am at least close to what I think I want. Here was my take on the receivers that I had: $399 Yamaha - Good: Cheap and ran my Energy Take 5's just fine. Bad: Wanted more. Result: Gave to oldest son. H/K 325 - Good: Warm, dynamic. Bad: Wanted more Result: Traded up to H/K 625 H/K 625 - Good: Warm, dynamic, sounded great with Klipsch, powerful. Bad: Overheated and froze up a lot, remote auto set up did not work right, sounded fat and a little muddy with Paradigm Mini Monitor and even more so with Polk towers Result: Sold for Denon 2803. Denon 2803 - Good: Clean, lots of detail, transparent. Bad: First one was thin, next one - there was no love or excitement. Result: Moved to Onkyo 701 Onkyo 701: Good: Clean sound, transparency, a little warmth. Bad: a little weak around the far ends of the frequency spectrum - no authority in the bass, highs extended but boring. Result: Sold it and bought Denon 2805 Denon 2805- Good: Clean, dynamic, great midrange, smooth highs, lots of bass, very neutral overall. Bad: Really wanted the 3805. Result: Traded up to the 3805. Denon 3805 - Good: all of the above, only smoother, more muscular, and generally better at everything, especially music. Love the remote more than I should love an inanimate object. Bad: Freudian possibilities with the remote. Sometimes violins don't have enough "wood" and sound sterile. Vast improvement in sound makes me want to spend even more money, maybe try separates. Glad to hear that elite wasn't too upset with me. Like him, I am just trying to be helpful to others with something that I am passionate/obsessive compulsive about. |
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Gold Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 1077 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for the deatailed response. Like you I am not 100% where I want to be but very close given the restraints of a small room. Am thinking about maybe upgrading my mains to either the MA Gold 10 or the Silver 8 but am leary of floorstanders with my wood floors. Here's my receiver rundown in the dolby digital era. Yamaha 992- Very thin and bright, poor music reproduction especially following the very good Onkyo 525. Onkyo 747- Overall very nice but after a short time the display malfunctioned and my dealer sent it to the wrong repair shop so after several weeks bought the Pioneer 906. Got the 747 back after Onkyo intervened[17 weeks!]. Sold the 747. Pioneer 906- IMO at the time [1997] was the best receiver under $1000 by a wide margain. Fabulous for movies, very dynamic and powerful. Good for music except sub output only active in surround mode like most all early DD units. Denon 2802- Very nice overall. Good detail without any excess brightness and plenty of power for my room. Decent but ugly remote. Could have kept for years and been happy but wanted to upgrade. Denon 3803- Some upgrade! By far the worst of the lot. Incredibly bright and sibilant. Awful remote and not at all user friendly. Real pain in the butt to even turn on my B speakers in the kitchen. Zone 2 and all that nonsense. Sold at a $250 loss after 6 weeks or so. Elite 45- By far the best of the lot in every way possible. Smooth, full-bodied sound, good detail, superb power supply and a real gem in 2 channel music reproduction. Perfect match with my new Monitor Audio system which I bought a couple months after the receiver. Good remote and very user friendly. Has that beautiful urushi black and lots of curb appeal. This is the one part of my system I envision keeping for many years. BTW, except for my current Elite/MA system all the rest of the receivers were paired with a DefTech DR-7 system which I loved. I have yet to hear any $500 pair of bookshelves that can beat the DR-7. My sister now has the DefTechs and the Denon 2802 which is a very nice system. Gave the whole lot to her for nothing.[what a sap]. All this swapping out of components is a real pain and I really have to stop. Now about those Gold 10's ? |
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Bronze Member Username: XsoundMyrtle Beach, SC United States Post Number: 16 Registered: Sep-04 | Elitefan, Let me know if you upgrade adn decide to sell those S6's.If I am close to a point where I can purchase them, would love to. |
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Gold Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 1081 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry but I don't have the 6's, I have the Silver 2's now for mains. They are very nice but I am always looking to do something better within reason and I have no idea what I will do if anything. |