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New member Username: NvsnowPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-04 | Can someone tell me actual benefits of one over the other? I want surround for DVD's occasionally, but music is much more important to me...and my mains are Polk Rti-12's (50-500 watts). They're brand new.....haven't even heard 'em yet. I'm finding some pretty fantastic deals on the HK- AVR630 and DPR2005. The AVR630 is 90 watts/ch for bridged stereo...and I honestly don't know if that's enough considering the recommended 50 watts minimum. The AVR7300 is really stretching the budget. Any imput would be appreciated. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 123 Registered: Oct-04 | A digital receiver is one that takes a digital signal and amplifies it directly to the speakers. All other recievers have DACs (Digital-Analog Convertors) that seperate the digital signal into seperate analog signals for each channel. The HK DPR2005 is their 2nd generation digital receiver, the 1st generation wasn't popular at all. Personally, my feeling is once refined, it will be better than a receiver which converts to analog, but the technology is too new, I would wait on the digital path receivers. DAC receivers have been refined over several decades, since your taste is more for music, I would stay away from the digital receiver. From Landroval's post- H/K AVR630: -Continuous power to 5ch - 8/4ohm: 84/115W (fronts and rears) -Continuous power to 5ch - 8/4ohm: 105/155W (center) -20ms burst power to 5ch - 8/4/2ohm: 92/140/155W (fronts and rears) -20ms burst power to 5ch - 8/4/2ohm: 122/185/155W (center) -Continuous power to 2ch - 8/4ohm: 100/155W (The center-ch amp is more powerfull) The 630 is a solid amplifier with 100W/Ch in stereo mode (they rate VERY conservatively). Take it from me, the 84W a channel to surround, and 105W to the centre is more than enough for almost any room in home theatre use. Buying the 7300 would IMO be for driving 4 ohm speakers all around, like the LSi series from Polk, given that the Rti line is all 8 Ohms the 630 has plenty of juice. The Rti12s are some serious speakers, with two midrange drivers and 3 bass drivers, they can definitely handle a heavy load. These speakers have the ability to be bi-wired. This refers to the 2 sets of speaker wire inputs on the back. The top binding posts power the 2 midrange drivers and the tweeter, the bottem posts drive the 3 woofers. I'd recommend the HK with the Polks, since I run this setup and it's beautiful (I have the Rti8s up front), try the RTi12s with the 630 in 2 channel stereo mode, see if it packs the necessary punch. If it's not stacking up you have two options - 1) Purchase a 2 channel stereo amplifier and hook it up to the front pre-outs on the HK 2) Downgrade to the Rti10s. (There is a big difference in sound unfortunately.) |
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New member Username: NvsnowPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-04 | Kano, Thanks for the info. As far as AVR and DPR, that's just what I was looking for. After posing this thread yesterday, I found one where one poster is talking about the Denon AVR-3805 (I can't seem to find the post again). Anyway, he's says something about being able to run in in a 5.1 instead of 7.1 mode allowing nearly 240 watts for the mains?..instead of the 120 watts per channel? Is this common with other receivers? Also.....I'd assumed that Marantz was far too high end...out of my price range (I'm trying real hard to stay below a grand. I'm seeing some Marantz stuff that is down there....and seems to have the same features, power, etc. I really don't know anything about Marantz however. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 129 Registered: Oct-04 | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/110401.html this is the thread you read. " Bi-amping the Denon AVR-3805 for 240 Watts/channel in the Fronts What? A $1200 receiver that gives you 2 x 120watts per channel to the main speakers in a bi-amped configuration while still allowing 5.1 surround? Absolutely. Read on... Using unused "Surround Back" amps to bi-amp the main speakers was mentioned by Gene DellaSala in his review of the Denon AVR-5803 receiver and the same procedure holds true for the AVR-3805. Why let those unused surround back amplifiers go to waste if you are not utilizing either them or Zone 2 speakers? Here is the procedure to successfully bi-amp the Denon AVR-3805 and deliver additional power to your main speakers: Before telling you HOW to do it, there are some caveats about doing this specifically with the AVR-3805. First, If you set it up to bi-amp, please expect to do your SETUP manually rather than using the mic for the AUTO SETUP procedure. Next, we have seen some complaints of noise (hiss) from some people who have done the bi-amping with specifically the AVR-3805. Accordingly, Denon is not "officially" endorsing this practice on this specific model. That said, we encourage you to TRY the bi-amp setup and judge for yourself if you hear any objectionable increase in noise that negates the many advantages of bi-amping in general. The procedure below specifically connects the speakers LOW frequency to the Zone 3, while having the HIGH frequency connected to the FRONT speaker terminals. This may help to reduce any extra noise from the use of multi-zone from getting to the tweeters. The reason for choosing Zone 3 rather than Zone 2 is simply to still permit the use of a volume controlled zone 2 for genuine multi zone use, so long as an additional stereo amplifier is used. Additionally, because of details on the remote, it makes it slightly more difficult to accidentally alter some of the settings. 1. Connect a SHORT stereo cable pair from [PRE OUT LEFT & RIGHT] and run it into the Red and White jacks labeled [VDP]. 2. DISCONNECT the SHORTING STRAPS from your bi-ampable speaker's terminals! This is whatever device the speaker manufacture has used to connect the two black terminals to each other, and the similar one used for the two red terminals. Failure to do this can quickly damage the amplifiers! 3. Connect the HIGH FREQUENCY terminals of the speakers to the receiver's FRONT LEFT and RIGHT speaker terminals. 4. Connect the speakers' LOW FREQUENCY terminals to the receiver's speaker terminals marked: [SURR BACK / MULTI ZONE]. These are to the far right, viewed from the back. 5. Via step # 5.1 in OPTION SETUP, set P.AMP ASSIGN to ZONE 3. See page 43 of the owner's manual for detail. 6. Via REMOTE (RC-969) press button that says [ZONE 2] until it changes to read [ZONE 3] with the bright bar above the ZONE 3 indication. 7. Press [SOURCE ON] to turn on the ZONE 3 amplifiers. 8. Select [VDP] as the SOURCE for Zone 3. This is done by pressing the letters [VDP] which are directly under the CD indication, NOT the VDP which is directly under the MD indication. Note that this step is what causes the "ZONE 3" to always play the VDP input, which is in turn, the signal from the Left and Right FRONT PRE OUTS of the main zone. Voila! 9. With the remote still in the ZONE 3 mode, press the VOL ^ up button while watching the front panel of the AVR-3805. Bring it up to read 00 as a starting point. Later in the process you will come back to this and adjust to your own taste for spectral balance of the front speakers. (More, later). 10. Next, put the remote back to the AMP mode, so the word AMP is underlined by the bright bar. You can now do any other setup steps you need and use the receiver as you normally would. Anything you select to listen to will have its output for the front L&R go directly to the speaker terminals marked Front L&R and ALSO go out the L&R PRE OUT jacks which ultimately get to the SURR BACK / MULTI speaker terminals. Therefore, the CONTENT of the FRONT L&R speaker terminals is identical to the content of the SURR BACK / MULTI speaker terminals. Once setup this way, you never touch the ZONE 3 again since the main zone is in control of everything.....one exception... The ZONE 3 volume will adjust ONLY the level to the LOW FREQUENCY part of the speaker, whereas the MASTER VOLUME (main zone) will control ALL channels INCLUDING the LOW FREQUENCY part of the speaker. Therefore the ZONE 3 Volume, step number 9 in the list above, actually adjusts the RATIO of Lows to Highs in the speaker. If you want a bit heaver sound, bring ZONE 3 volume up a bit. If you want a bit brighter sound, take ZONE 3 volume down a bit. Some "Audiophiles" worry they won't know what setting is "Correct", but "REAL" audiophiles trust their own ears above all! One of the very powerful ADVANTAGES of the Bi-Amp setup this way is your ability to control the spectral balance of the speaker with this specific adjustment. Notes: It would have been nice if the channel trim for the Zone 2/3 level control had +/-0.5dB precision as did all of the other channel trims of this receiver. During this configuration I also wondered what would happen if the CD input were accidentally selected by mistake, causing the main channel preamp outputs to be suddenly routed to themselves (feedback). Not to worry, Zone 2/3 does not allow the same source to be sent simultaneously to the main speaker outputs so feedback is impossible - at least with regards to this configuration method. Be sure to remove the jumpers on the back of the main speakers and then connect a set of wires from the "Front" channels of the receiver to the highs section of each of your front speakers and a set of wires from the "Multi Zone 2" channels of the receiver to the lows of your front speakers. Voila! You now paid only $1200 for a receiver that gives you 3dB of additional headroom in the form of 2 x 120watts per channel to your main speakers where you need it the most." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- And there's the relevant section of the article. Sounds like a headache to me. That Denon receiver's bi-wiring feature, may suit the RTi12s nicely. I haven't heard the Polks and Denon combo so maybe someone else can say how they match. Denon's 39W peak power when all channels are driven really amazes me. I'm not sure if any other receivers do that although it is a great idea. Marantz is great, and they fill some space between the HK 630-7300 in terms of power per channel. Personally I don't think they have as many features as the HK, but the sound quality is great. I really like HK's Logic 7 DSP, if you run TV cable through your receiver you will see what I'm talking about. |
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New member Username: NvsnowPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks again Kano. I started thinking yesterday that I could use the two unused surround channels from an AVR-630 to power just the mids and tweeters in my rti-12's while the main left and right power just the lows, thus allowing me 160 watts per speaker (80 per channel) but I'm guessing now that it's just not that simple. I'm still pretty new to home audio, and I'm not quite sure how many channels are still being used in just stereo mode (for instance in the AVR-630). |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 132 Registered: Oct-04 | The Denon's the first I've heard of having assignable channels like that. As far as I know the HK can only do surround back left and right, or a 2nd room option. But then again... isn't the 2nd room option capable of doubling the front channels anyway? Maybe it is possible, btw that would give you 190W in stereo mode (100W + 90W) according to the above power ratings. |
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New member Username: NvsnowPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-04 | Kano, this Denon 3805 receiver is really sounding like the kind of thing I'm looking for. The bi-amping ability is very attractive....the idea of being able to send 240 watts to each speaker is precisely what I was hoping to do. A local sound shop here is willing to sell me an HK AVR-7200 (75 amps?..100 watts/ch...115 stereo) for a grand, but I'm having a tough time deciding. You seem to be up on your stuff, and I'm wondering if you have a preference of one brand over the other. The guy at this shop basically told me that with high-current receivers, the wattage is not really an accurate parameter to look at, but is more of a value people are used to seeing. He says that something like a high-current HK rated at 90 watts/ch (HK-630 stereo) will have much more power than non-high-current receivers stating (for example) 120 watts/ch. One other thing....if you bi-amp speakers with the Denon 3805 (which I assume is also high-current), how does that affect listening in Stereo mode? The reason I ask is that (as I stated I'm pretty new to this), I would assume that if music is your primary motivation, you won't want all that surround processing going on, but you'd want to run it in Stereo mode. I'm still not sure what happens with the other 5 channels of a 7.1 system when it's run in Stereo. They they all shut down or do they continue to output signal, without surround processing? |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 139 Registered: Oct-04 | Polks are bright, Denons are bright. The combination will bring out every nuance of every recording, but may give you listener fatigue, ie ringing in your ears. The deal on the 7200 is excellent. It's a great receiver and has exactly what your looking for: Enough juice to crank your Rti12s up in Stereo mode, without biamping a receiver to one channel. I really have no idea how that works. Only thing I'm not sure on is how well the RTi12s would perform in Home Theatre use. My recommendation would be to set the fronts to -10dB and build the other speakers around that. About stereo mode, if that receiver is doubling the front channels through the rear channels, just those 4 channels would be active. If running normally, just the 2 channels would be active. Another good source to look at is clubpolk.polkaudio.com |