I am looking for a TT, can someone give me their thoughts on these choices, or if you know of a better way for $2,000.00 (Inc. Cart. and Tone Arm) or less.
Well, I certainly wouldn't consider a P3. You're more into P5 or P7 at that price and the differences over a P3 are huge! Add a Dynavector 10x5 or 17D2 if you can muster it and you'll have a lovely deck.
As to the VPI and Project, those decks sound quite different to the Rega. The Rega stands out a bit as a speed and timing freak, the others being more 'round earth', aiming for ultimate tonality and soundstaging. It's a preference thing.
Another make you might like to consider is Michell who make the Tecnodec and Gyrodec (my preference). You can attach Rega arms or better to these decks very easily (you simply order the deck with the appropriate armboard) and Michell also modify Rega arms to supercharge the performance. You should be able to get a Tecnodec with Michell Tecnoarm (a modified RB600) for around $1500. Add a Dynavector 10x5 cartridge and you'd have a very nice front end there.
Sorry, that is my max budget for the TT, arm and cart. I am down to the VPI, MM7, and P5. I geuss my big concern is am I going to notice an improvement with one over the others, and will it be noticeable over my Dennon SACD?
Sorry Frank, in the UK the P3 retails for £300 including arm. That's $500. The 10x5 is £250 ($390 or so). The P5 is £700 ($1120ish). The P7 power supply is £200 ($320). So the P5 with upgraded power supply and 10x5 would come in under your $2000 limit. Now even if you have to lose the power supply, the naked P5 is a fine turntable.
That said, I've heard good things about the VPI and the RM9 too. I believe their presentations are quite different to the pacy presentation of the P5, so you should notice the differences between decks. As to your Denon, it depends a bit on the phono stage you're using. If it's a good phono stage, then the P5 will beat the Denon in certain respects, particularly timing and therefore involvement. This is probably true of the other decks too. If the phono stage is a basic one built into a receiver, the results could be more variable.
Thanks Frank, this is just one part of the system, I am putting together an integrated Amp, TT, phono stage and speakers. Some of these components will be now, and some later. I am looking at the Bryston B60, Simaudio Moon i3, Naim Nait 5i and the Creek 5350se. as for the phono stage, the musical fidelity X-LPSv3. Speakers potentials are Joseph Audio RM7, Polk LSi9, Paradigm Reference studio 20. and a few others. If you have any input on my short list it would be appreciated. I listen to Jazz, Classical, Rock (Zepplin, the Who, Pink Floyd) and stuff like James Taylor, Nora Jones, Diana Krawl.
I know the Nait5i. You could put together a very nice system with that and the Rega since these two makes come very much from the same school (the 'flat earth').
I don't know any of the speakers you suggest having never heard any of them. I match the Naim with Totem Arro or RainMaker and Dynaudio (Audience 42, 52 or 62) to great effect. The Musical Fidelity phono stage is not my favourite. MF has a much more 'round earth' presentation. I would suggest either a Project Phono Box SE or if you can stretch to it the fabulous Dynavector P75. Use a Chord Chrysalis 2RCA-DIN interconnect (about £50 or $80) between the phono stage and amp, and use Naim's own speaker cable (about $12 per metre).
Are there any limits to the size of listening room with the Nait5i and RainMakers with a P5? The room this system is going in is rather large, it is a Living room that flows into a Dining room and foyer. The ceiling starts at 10 feet at the living room and ends at 20 feet in a loft area above the dining room. All in, about 32' x 18' x 15'.
J. Vigne
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Not trying to discourage you toward the Rega. I have sold Rega for almost 30 years and purchased one of the first Planar 3's brought into the US. They make a terrific product. But ... The value of Dollar to Euro has given an edge to the value of American made products over imports if you are purchasing here in the States. I replaced my P3 with a VPI and have been quite happy with the results. But which you buy will depend on your taste in sound quality. One benefit of the VPI is the upgradability of their products.
Frank - I'm aware of the Flat Earth manufacturers; but, you are the first I have heard use the term "round Earth". Please define what that means other than not flat Earth.
What tonearm and cartridge are you using on your vpi?
J. Vigne
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I use a Rega RB300. I told you I like Rega products. It is a fantastic arm for the money and has been given attention by modifiers if you wish to tweak it even more. A new counterweight seems to be the most popular upgrade. I have a Grado TLZ MM on the arm. A slightly older Grado, but possessing the typical Grado sound. Easy to install on the Rega arm.
J. Vigne
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I just received my new issue of "Stereophile". They have a review of the P5 and P7 in this issue.
That is a big room! The Naim system would work in the context of the listening area. In other words if the speakers are about 6 - 7 feet apart and your listening position is 10 - 12 feet away, then you'll get a good sound. As to the rest of the room, no way will you fill it. You'll hear the system of course and it'll sound very nice, but it's not going to fill the room - simply too much space to fill. The system can't couple to that size airspace properly.
I think J. Vigne made a very important point by the way. I oly know the prices of things here in the UK. I imagine that the VPI decks are much better value in the US - they tend to be relatively expensive here. So definitely have a listen before you buy anything.
J - one of the best things you could do to your RB300 is to buy an Incognito rewire kit for it. I used the same kit to rewire my Mission Mechanic arm (which is far better than the RB300) and it was the best value for money upgrade I have ever made! I've also done the RB300 vs RB300/Incognito demo and it's a no brainer. This is one of those very few occasions where I caould not find a disadvantage to the advantages that the cable brought about. Fantastic value.
There are loads of upgrades available, starting with the heavy counterweight. Several manufacturers have options. The two I know of best are Michell and Origin Live. AFAIK Michell are the only company who have actually been trained and certified by Rega to perform rewiring on the arms. Michell apply the Incognito kit. They also do an underslung counterweight, VTA adjuster and bespoke counterweight stub.
Thanks guys, the info on the room size tells me I am fine with the 50 WPC system, and the smaller speakers. I am going to take a serious look at the Paradigm Reference 20 & 40. As for the TT, I can get the VPI with the tomearm for $1,500.00 US. The cartriges I am looking at are the Grado Platinum, Sumiko Blue Point Evo II, and Benz Ace. I think I will need to listen to some phono stages to see. Are there certain cartriges that work better with the VPI and the P5, they are the two I have short-listed.
J. Vigne
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Stay with any medium mass, medium to higher compliance cartridge and you should be fine with either set up.
It certainly is part of the fun. If you have a dealer who deals in Dynavector, check them out as well. They have some exemplary attributes. A Dynavector 10x5 retails for £250 here which is about $400 and it suits the P5 very well provided the dealer puts in a 2mm spacer under the arm (he should be able to do this). The Grado is a fine cartridge too.
As to phono stages, it depends a lot on how much you'd like to spend. I am a real believer in the Dynavector P75 but that retails for around £475 ($800). For a lot less than that I really like the Project Phono Box SE. I've heard both good and bad things about the Graham Slee phono stages.
But if you can go for the Dynavector phono stage you will not regret it - by a long chalk!
Thanks, what are your thoughts on Stereophile suggested components? I have put added emphasis on their suggestion due to my lack of knowledge, am I going down the right path?
to spend. I am a real believer in the Dynavector P75 but that retails for around £475 ($800). For a lot less than that I really like the Project Phono Box SE. I've heard both good and bad things about the Graham Slee phono stages.