Why not to buy NAD receiver
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Why not to buy NAD receiver I own NAD T773 receiver, and wanted to share with you some issues I am having with this unit. 1. There is a noise of hiss -- NAD admits that with some board, the hiss is higher than other receivers. 2. From time to time, there is no sound from surround speakers at EARS mode. I needed to turn off the receiver from the back side. With these two problems, I called NAD for the last few months, and still don't have any good answer to address these issues. More importantly, when I called to several customer services, and the technicians asked me for my serial number, I have found out that my unit doesn't have one! I called to my dealer and they still checking it -- can you imagine a NAD T773 without serial number? I have a big issue with this as all NAD quality check is poor! I am working for a big electronic company, and we never shipped a device without serial number! This is a basic one for quality -- as by the serial number you can follow up on the process of the unit in the factory. Finally, I have asked NAD to replace my unit with a good one and with a serial number to provide me some proof that the unit passed quality check -- and I still waiting. Now, it's under Canada's NAD evaluation... Anyway, If NAD will not replace this unit, and respect my request and be customer oriented (as it's definitely NAD quality issue and problem), this for sure will be my last time to buy NAD or even to recommend this receiver to my friends. Daniel |
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New member Username: Sound4bargainPost Number: 3 Registered: Oct-04 | I was the proud owner of 2 NAD T753's for about 2 weeks and in that time I read more about receivers than I wanted to. I also learned that NAD is one of the most talked about receivers in all audio boards and the reason for that is 1. The audio quality is superb 2. The build quality stinks. I had replaced a Yamaha 3300 (just too bulky for my new rack) and needed a new AV reciever. I read a few reviews decided on a Denon 3805 went and heard it and my ears said No. Heard the NAD (actually the T743) and loved the sound (compared to a Yam 2400, H/K 635, Pioneer 54TX) on a couple of speakers. Bought the T753 hooked it to my front speakers and the music was out of the world. Hooked the rears and heard the hum (now I know its called the dreaded hum - this is not the hiss). I knew from years ago that NAD made good solid amps so I thought bad unit lets swap. Now when the second unit did the same I went to the trusted internet and found out about the love hate relationship between NAD and music loving owners of NAD Txxx AV receivers. Seeing all these posts considering NAD probably sells less than the mass marketers I realized to keep the NAD was to love the music and hate the quality. I have no time for hate barely enough time for music so the T753 went back. I got the Yamaha 1400 and have ordered the NAD 270 power amp to run the front speakers. Let me put it this way the RX-V1400 can not drive speakers (Infinity Alpha 50's) the way the T753 could to be honest neither could the RX-V3300. The Yamaha has better surround processors and lots of frills but the sound of the NAD was far superior and I say that after owning a RX-V1300, RX-V3300 and now buying a RX-V1400. I am actually sad to let go of the NAD T753 and if I had not got the 1400 for such a bargain that I could afford to get the NAD 270 (also a bargain) I would have kept the T753. Now I am a 2 channel music guy and this Yamaha 1400 NAD 270 combo gives me that at just a little over the price of T753 or I would have kept the T753 with the hum and a dolby surround decoder that basically is basic - can't even do a reasonable downmix, does good native decode. I still have not got my 270 and my wife and I have stopped listening to music because the 1400 does not cut it. Movies are fine. If you love the sound buy it but make certain you put it in a location where it is easy to pull out - get plugs for the speaker wires because it is very likely you will be taking it out of the rack. NAD seems to have the Microsoft concept of plug and play (you play with the plugs). |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 858 Registered: Feb-04 | I would not say NAD build quality stinks. Mine is very sturdy and has well organized internals. I believe the problem is either in design of some PCBs or the quality/wrong type of some components, or something like that. Sound is great, but the constant humm/hiss is always there. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 738 Registered: Dec-03 | Landroval, I am sorry to hear your NAD has a constant humm/hiss. The term "build quality" in the audio press in the US often refers to internal components when judging this issue and if there is a constant humm/hiss that is a build quality issue as understood here. I have been on this forum for about 2 years now and I am amazed at the number of problems relating to NAD receivers especially since they have a rather small market share. NAD needs to get their act together or their share will only lesson. This would be a real shame. I am at the point where I don't know if I can recommend them anymore. I can tell you my long time NAD dealer has gotten fed up with the problems and dropped them in favor of Rotel for a high end receiver line. Nobody should have to put up with the problems like have been discussed on this forum relating to NAD and if I had a receiver that had a constnat humm/hiss I would not keep it no matter how it sounded. Please answer this, at what sound level is this humm/hiss audible? |
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L'Wood Unregistered guest | Is this primarily with AV receivers, or does it also include 2-channel receivers, amps, etc. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 49 Registered: Aug-04 | Elite The hiss starts at -74db and you can hear it when you put your ears close to the speaker. In my room It is audible at -20db from my listening position on all speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 859 Registered: Feb-04 | L'Wood, I think it's just AVR's and not 2-ch. Read this (archives too): https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/92714.html Elitefan, The hiss is not very loud and it's independent of the selected volume. With low listening volumes it's clearly audible, but with 'normal' volumes it doesn't bother too much because it 'blends' to the music. In quiet passages it can be heard which is the most annoying part of this problem. Also the headphone output is totally useless because of the loud constant hiss on the background. We have discussed about this problem with the dealer and NAD also, and they've told there is/will be a fix for this. It requires some hardware changes and/or software update. Although for now nothing has been done to solve this. I'm still waiting because I'm not yet willing to replace the NAD with some other receiver with lower sound quality. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 652 Registered: Dec-03 | 'Wood: To answer your question--no. I have been reading posts on this board for well over a year and I have yet to see one where someone has complained about NAD's two channel gear. In fact, NAD's two channel gear is considered to be among the very best, as Stereophile as highly recommended two of their integrated amps, the C320bee and the C372, as best in class in their price range (and actually better than many products costing considerably more!). As for their A/V receivers, my T753 has been perfect, with absolutely no issues, and the sound is clearly superior to anything (and I auditioned everything costing $2K and below). As for build quality, my T753 is superior in its build quality in every way to my older Denon 3803--it has a cleaner layout, it has a far superior power supply, and its output section has greater separation and better parts by far. When issues arise, it is up to the dealers to make it good. That is why the choice of dealer is so important--too many consumers simply try to save a few dollars and end up buying from a simple order taker. If you have a problem, the dealer should make some real effort to fix the problem. I am sorry that we have some people who have had issues with their NAD receivers, but I would note that we have had a number of people post stories of how NAD in the USA went out of its way to get a unit fixed, putting forth far more effort than any other brand. I would also note that every brand has had posts announcing problems that were not fixed by their dealers, so there is nothing unique to NAD here. I know of half a dozen websites that sell the factory refurbs from Denon and Onkyo because they have so many returns, it has become an industry in itself. It is only the unreasonable who persist in starting threads that a particular brand is bad--the evidence suggests otherwise. The bottom line, however, is that for the amount of money we spend on these products, you should be able to enjoy, and I do mean truly enjoy the sound, not just tolerate it. I had a very poor experience with the Denon I bought (the sound was utterly lifeless to my ears), so after a year, I got my NAD. I couldn't be happier. Likewise, my friend elitefan has been very happy with his Pioneer Elite. So, I think if you audition the products and find one that you think gives you the most pleasure, get it. If you discover problems later, take it back to the dealer to have it fixed. However, in closing, I would note as I have said many times before, few people realize just how bad the electrical power is in some parts of this country. If you dealer can't find anything wrong, try a good line conditioner before you decide the product is bad. You may find it is the bad electrical noise generated by your next door neighbor's workshop. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 744 Registered: Dec-03 | I could not put up with that level of hiss no matter how good the receiver sounds and I use my headphone output in the summer all the time as my neighborhood is an old one and the houses are close to each other. You have my sympathy and I hope NAD fixes these problems but this hiss is so audible that I don't think I could tell someone to spend their money on a unit with this problem. I guess the best advice we could give is for any prospective NAD buyer to check out this hiss in the store before buying. At least that way you would know what this sounds like before you buy it. If the demo unit does not exibit this problem then insist on buying the demo. At least know the return policy. Landroval, How long have you been waiting on NAD to fix your receiver? |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 860 Registered: Feb-04 | Hawk, Have you tried the headphone output of your T753? Because for now I haven't seen (heard) one NAD T7x3 without the hiss. My dealer should get new fixed models in a week or two so then I'll have news. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 745 Registered: Dec-03 | Hawk, Do you really think NAD does not have a higher percentage of problems than other brands? As I said earlier there has been an awful lot of postings in the last couple years about problems from NAD and they do have a low market share so that makes me question whats going on. I respect your opinion as you know and this concerns me because the object here is to help people spend their money wisely and to enjoy their systems. I just don't know if I should recommend NAD when their seems to be so many problems. Your assurance and opinion would be appreciated. Later, my friend. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all, I just started this one with three issues I have with my NAD T773, two of them, I think I can understand: Hiss noise and no sound from surround speakers from time to time at EARS mode, but the 3rd one -- no serial number on the receiver -- that I can't understand. And I travel to New York especially to authorized dealer to buy this receiver! To me, the fact that there is no serial number on the unit says that NAD quality check is poor. I talked with my dealer several times, and he told me that he is not checking the new receivers from NAD for serial number -- he is not opening the boxes -- and he is right. I talked with NAD US representative from NY and he told me to call to Canada, as this is not acceptable to have the unit without serial number. He also sent the invoice document to NAD that I bought my NAD receiver from authorized dealer. I called Canada and even sent by e-mail the pictures of my receivers without the serial number and I still waiting. I will see next week what they will decide. I explained NAD that I don't want my money back, I just wants a good unit without the hiss, and surround issue and with a serial number. By the way, can you imagine that from time to time, I need to check the surround speakers to hear if every thing is ok and didn't lost them during playing CD or DVD... you probably understand my feeling... I still believe that there are good NAD receivers out there, as the sound is good and hope that NAD Canada will return back to me with and be "customer oriented" which so far it was not good at all if I can say so! Daniel |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 114 Registered: Dec-03 | I am in agreement with Hawk. I wouldn't buy a NAD receiver or any other receiver unless I trusted my dealer. I have bought most of my equipment from one dealer and continue to have a good relation. I did have a NAD T762 which bonked out but NAD replaced it with a T763 which has been great for almost a year. I intend to buy the NAD C372 for a stereo set up and really like the sound of NAD and the ease of set up and use. I am sorry for others with problems and would just say to take them back and don't settle for less than quality units. |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 37 Registered: Feb-04 | Rack up another vote for Hawk, and his theory about having a good authorized dealer. I heartily agree that there shouldn't be so many issues with these receivers... but despite all the problems that I have had, my dealer has made the process a lot more bearable. I started out with a bad 762, and it was replaced with a defective 763. I now own a 773 - with NO problems whatsoever - and plan on keeping this one for a long time. Each exchange was effortless, and happened at no cost to me (save for the difference in price to upgrade to the 773). Having a reponsible dealer that is willing to work hard for you and go the distance - makes all the difference in the world. There are risks, there are problems, but there is also that sound....  I'm sure that NAD will fix these issues - they really don't have a choice. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 104 Registered: Apr-04 | I also agree with HAWK as maybe some people that are buying through non reputable sources are getting false equipment. I have always bought NAD for the last 20 years and my dealer has equipment 10 times the price and always says to me that NAD is always his bread and butter and rarely has he seen any type of reliability issue that was not easiliy fixed! I am having a hard time understanding the allogations. I seriously doubt that a company such as NAD would sit back on their reputation with all the immediate competition (cambridge audio) on its heals! |
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Silver Member Username: BilldashillPost Number: 133 Registered: Dec-03 | Why dosen't NAD label reconditioned receivers? I think Harman Kardon adds a Z to the model number to identify it as reconditioned. Does NAD do this? I agree with Hawk also, but many people don't live near an authorized NAD dealer. To get really good prices you need to buy off the internet from places like Saturday Audio. I don't know what their policy is but if someone has to eat the shipping costs every time another bug is detected it's gonna cost more than retail in the long run. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all again, Well, I respect Hawk, but I must say that I challenge his message - what is an authorized dealer and quality? Let me try and explain to you: Since I am working in a big electronic company that supplies many devices every day to costumer all over the world, to me quality (after safety) is number one priority. So, before I purched my receiver, I did a research about sound and receivers - and especially authorized dealers - to make sure that I will have a quality receiver. Money for me was not the limiter. I went to NAD web site and looked for authorized dealer, then I sent NAD e-mail with the dealer name and they confirmed it. So I think that to me, this is an authorized dealer - would you agree? Then, I traveled to NY especially to buy the NAD receiver - I have paid $500 for one night at NY with air flight tickets. So, with all the respect, I did every thing to buy NAD receiver from authorized dealer! But, with the problem that I have - the company NAD can't track it down due to no serial number on the unit. To me, when you put all your responsibility on the dealer - it's not right, the quality of NAD is poor, as there is no serial number on the unit - and they admitted that it's wrong! NAD need to come up with an extra corrective action to all NAD costumers and say: yes, we have a problem with hiss noise and other staff, we know about it, and we will fix your receiver - and we know how to fix it! Hawk and all, something to people like me, it's not about the money, it's about quality and trust when you buy something it should work properly. My dealer is right; he can't do any thing without the serial number. He escalated this issue as well as I to NAD and we will see. The quality problems with NAD are bigger then the dealer "environment" or "spare of influence". NAD should act ASAP to bring her costumers back home! And I am not NAD costumer for the last year or so, I am with NAD for the last 10 years! And it's not easy to me to write bad things about my favorite sound company. Let me tell you another story, now that I finished with authorized dealer and quality definition: Before 8-9 years or so, in my company we had a problem with Pentium 2 66Mhz device (if some of you remember). We already "shipped the sheet" to the costumers, but we admitted on our mistake and we went out communicated it and successfully completed this crises stronger and with trust with our costumers on our products - just due to costumer oriented! Think about it, and learn! Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 39 Registered: Feb-04 | Daniel; I don't recall anyone saying that ALL reponsibilty lies with the dealer. We simply stated that having a good dealer helps. You did everything right in ensuring that you bought from an authorized dealer - but your case is special. I agree that not having a serial number is a serious oversight on behalf of Lenbrook / NAD - but I also think that if your dealer is as good as you say it is, they should take your unit back - no questions asked - and give you a new one with a number. It would then be THEIR fight with NAD on the no number issue, not yours. And yes, NAD does need to admit that there are problems. It is evident that there have been many issues with their products, and for NAD to stand there and say "Problems? What problems?" is not only ridiculous - it's insulting to you and I, the owners. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 106 Registered: Apr-04 | I agree with Brad............if the dealer is authorized, he should just take it back and give you another. That is what mine would do! |
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Bronze Member Username: MgkaplanCalabasas, CA USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Mar-04 | I had the "privilege" of owning an NAD T763. I purchased it as a result of, among other things, the recommentations of respected individuals on this board. The sound quality of the NAD was compressed and very digital sounding. Prior to purchasing it, my local dealer warned me that NAD uses off the shelf processors which do not deliver the best sound quality. After struggling with the NAD for two months, I chose to do a side by side comparison with other brands of recievers. My ears confirmed that my dealer was correct. I replaced it with an ARCAM AVR 300, which has much more open, detailed and smooth sound, much better processing, much better imaging, and much better 2 channel sound. The NAD was nothing short of a disappointment. A reality of this board is the preponderance of NAD owners who have a vested interest in affirming the wisdom of their product purchase choices (As we all do from time to time.) |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 444 Registered: Dec-03 | Michael, With all do respect, it is very difficult for you to compare the NAD T763 and the Arcam when they are not even in the same price range. The NAD retails for $1300 while the Arcam retails for $2000. I would expect a better sound for that kind of extra money. It would be better to compare the Arcam with the NAD T773. If we enjoy our product, why should we not recommend it to others? |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 40 Registered: Feb-04 | After reading the email about the post from Michael - the exact same thoughts that Johnny penned came into my mind. The 773 is a better match to the Arcam. After owning both a 763 and a 773, AND auditioning the same Arcam mentioned - I believe that NAD came out on top. It does exaclty what an amplifier should do - dissappear. Now, this is not a matter of having to 'justify' my purchase, or have my ego stroked as Michael mentions... it's a matter of opinion. Like Johnny said - if we enjoy the product, why wouldn't we recommend it? It's all a matter of opinion... and that's what these posts are all about. |
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Bronze Member Username: MgkaplanCalabasas, CA USA Post Number: 83 Registered: Mar-04 | Johnny and Brad, Both of you are absolutely correct. We recommend products based upon our experiences. I just wish I had known that the NAD T763 was a product to be avoided, unlike the NAD T773 which is apparently an outstanding performer. As I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate the outstanding sound quality of the ARCAM, I continue to recommend it. Michael |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 445 Registered: Dec-03 | I would disagree wholeheartedly that the NAD T763 is a "product to be avoided", but we seem to be beating a dead horse here. This issue is obviously one that is very polarizing. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 59 Registered: Sep-04 | Brad, You mentionned that you've had no hisses from your t773? I just purchased mine a week ago and it does hiss from -74 (can be heard 13 feet away, it not loud but it's just there) the only time it doesn't hiss is when it's muted or the volume is sitting at 00. I do find it troubling and I am in conversation with Nad's representative. I'm lost as to what to do, I love the amp but man I don't like that hiss... |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all again, I talked with NAD Canada today regarding my T773 receiver. The manager there refused to exchange my unit with a good one and with a serial number. He told me that I would ship (my sheet unit - excuse me - I am so disappointed from their approach), they will fix the hiss issue, and the surround sound problem and they will put on my unit a serial number - which I don't know how they can... At this time, I have greed to do that, since I have no other opportunity. Oh yea, NAD manager was kind enough that they will pay for the shipment... For sure, this will be my last time dealing with NAD, I will ship my unit to service center, I will probably will put it for the kids upon arrival and buy some good and reliable receiver most likely Rotel or Arcam. I am sure that with these brands I will not need to deal with quality events. And what is bother me the most is that NAD think that by putting serial number on my unit it satisfied me. As I wrote, the no serial number on my unit (and yes, bought it from authorized dealer by definition) says the sad story for NAD. Its ridicules to tell smart people things like that - it insolate our intelligence. Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: MgkaplanCalabasas, CA USA Post Number: 84 Registered: Mar-04 | Daniel, Choosing Arcam or Rotel is a win-win decision. You may want to visit the following sites for more information about Arcam receivers: http://www.aslgroup.com/arcam/ReviewsAVR300.htm http://www.avforums.com/ Also feel free to send me a private message if you would like more information. Michael |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 655 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi all: I am sorry I have not been around as a number of questions were thrown my way and my internet connection was out. I can't begin to cover everything as there are a lot of posts! Nevertheless, I did investigate a couple of issues and would like to posts some thoughts. Landroval--I have never used my headphone jack until I read your question (never had the need or desire). So I tried and I do not have any hiss whatsoever. Now, I do have a very low hum (I am not trying to put too fine a point on this, but a hiss and a hum are two different things to me since they likely come from a different source) audible only between tracks on CD playback, but not noticeable otherwise. I seem to remember trying the headphone jack on my old Denon and I am sure I had a similar hum, but neither rises to anything objectionable. More importatly, I do not hear any hum or hiss when using the "A" speaker outlets for either stereo or surround sound, so I guess it means nothing to me. Elitefan--before I purchased my NAD, I was also surprised by some of the posts I read concerning NAD. So, I checked with three different dealers that I both know and respect about NAD quality. One was Kief's which sells about 10 different brands of receivers including some very fine brands (B & K, Pioneer Elite, and McIntosh). The store manager I have known for almost 30 years and he told me they had no more problems with NAD than any other brand and usually they have fewer problems with NAD (and they sell a lot of receivers!). Now he did admit they had problems with the T7x0 series, but he felt those "teething problems" were past. I also checked with the manager of Cherry Creek Audio here in the Denver area (known Chuck for 2 years) and he told me the same thing. He could easily push Yamaha as he sells a lot of Yammy equipment, but he also swears by NAD. The third dealer is a large west coast dealer I have known for more than 15 years who carries several different brands of receivers and he says the same thing. So, based upon three dealers I know and trust, I have no reason to believe NAD is any more troublesome than any other brand. Their sample is certainly greater than the few anecdotal stories posted here. Michael--I am very glad you found a receiver that you really like, but I echo the comments of the others that a T763 is not in the same price category as the Arcam 300. However, it is worth noting that the Arcam and the NAD are made in the same Chinese plant using a common "mule." Everyone uses "off the shelf" parts developed by the likes of Burr-Brown, Wolfson, or Cirrus Logic, except Yamaha, which uses a proprietary chipset, but it is generally acknowledged to be inferior to the more common chipsets from Burr-Brown, Wolfson or CL. Daniel--I am extremely sympethetic to your situation. However, it should be noted that the lack of a serial number is a big red warning flag suggesting either counterfeit goods or "grey market" importing in the electronics field. I am skeptical (not of you, mind you) of the dealer's claim that NAD must have left it off. I would note that my NAD receiver not only has a serial number on the back, it is on the outside of the box the receiver came in. Do you have the box to retrieve the serial number? If it is not on the box, I would be very concerned about the dealer. You might also find the number on the box has been previously registered to someone else, which would also suggest a grey market unit, which may well be a factory second originally sold in Shanghai or Singapore. Now, I appreciate the steps you took to guarantee that the dealer was on the up and up, but a missing serial number is very fishy, and frankly, New York City has long had the reputation of some shady grey market importers (usually afflicing the larger brands such as Sony and Panasonic). Since you apparently bought this unit in the USA, I think you need to alert NAD Electronics of America about this dealer--perhaps he is not as trustworthy as NAD believed. I checked my Guaranty and it specifically excludes any guaranty when the serial number has been altered or removed, so at least Lenbrook is willing to do something to make this good for you. I know a couple of other major manufacturers that would have blown you off without the slightest hesitation under these circumstances. In any event, best wishes in getting your issues resolved!! Knowing the price of a 773, you have spent a considerable sum and should not be having these problems. I hope it can all be worked out to your satisfaction. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 107 Registered: Apr-04 | Daniel, I agree with HAWK once again! You seem to have gotten NADS attention to at least fix the problem but do you seriously think they will exchange the unit without a serial number? They must definately believe this is fishy for sure! Your dealer is the one responsible for this! Check on your box as Hawk said to see if there is a number. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 446 Registered: Dec-03 | I have stated this many times in other threads on this same topic, but since Hawk brought it up, I shall too. I also have spoken with three different NAD dealers about these reported problems...even some of the same dealers Hawk has spoken to. I don't have the same lengthy relationships as Hawk with them (as I am not even alive as long as Hawk has known some of these dealers!), but I trust them wholeheartedly nonetheless. At Kiefs, I have spoken several times with both Ed (the manager)and John (the owner) and both echoed Hawks comments...that they had no more problems with NAD than any other brand. Ed even said (speaking of the 7x2 line) that they had only had two NAD units that he knew of returned for repair, and one of those was returned because someone had spilled beer on the top of the unit and it had seeped inside. I have also spoken with Andy (the owner) at Saturday Audio Exchange in Chicago. As any regular reader of this forum would probably know, Saturday Audio is one of the largest NAD dealers in the nation. He also said that there were no more problems with NAD than any other brand. Between Kiefs and Saturday Audio, we have covered a huge percentage of the NAD market in the midwest...definately enough of a market share that these dealers experiences should be listened to. I also discussed the issue at length with a small dealer here in Columbia...same story. When I first read about Daniels serial number story, I too was a little skeptical of the dealer. I am also a photography buff, and you wouldn't believe the amount of grey market stuff out there that doesn't have serial numbers on it, at least in the photography world. The photography discussion boards are full of people who were duped into buying cameras at seemingly huge discounts (often from stores who have flashy websites but are actually run out of someones basement) only later to find out that they can't get service once the camera breaks because there is no serial number. I would definately report the dealer to NAD...at least so they know about the possiblity of fraud occuring. I am not in any way trying to diminish the plight of those who have problems with NAD receivers. If there truly is a problem, then it should be fixed in a timely manner. My intentions are to simply show that this problem is not nearly as widespread as it may seem sometimes by reading this forum. |
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Bronze Member Username: MgkaplanCalabasas, CA USA Post Number: 85 Registered: Mar-04 | From the tone of the responses to my post(s), I am beginning to sense that I may have had a "defective" NAD T763. Since I have disposed of my NAD reciever, there is no way to know for sure. I can only conclude that the performance level that cause Hawk and the other experts on this board to recommend NAD is much better than that which I experienced. I hope to some day have the opportunity to listen to the true level of performance of NAD receivers. Thanks |
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New member Username: Sound4bargainPost Number: 6 Registered: Oct-04 | Well from a guy who returned a T753 so no longer needs to defend it - I can say it performance as to audio quality was better than any other I heard in the price range and better than more expensive units including the Yamha RX-V3300 which I had previouly hooked to the same set up. Hawk - I agree a hum and hiss are different a hiss is white noise I can live with a hiss but a hum is like a sound out off a transformer and gets very annoying after some time. The quality of the dealer is important and mine was ready to exchange the units without question and was ready to send mine to NAD but do I really want to have something repaired as soon as I get them out of the box. I still hope that my new setup will sound as good as the T753 which I nearly kept hum and all but I just don't have the time to babysit my AV system |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi again al, Well, since I am in math world... I like things to be accurate. Before 2 days, I defined for all of you what is to me and for NAD Canada an authorized dealer. After reading your comments here about gray market, I have called my dealer and asked him about the receiver. He told me that he have all proof that he bought it from NAD. I have called NAD Canada and asked them what proof you need from me and my dealer that this is a NAD receiver from NAD and not gray market. They asked me the name of the dealer, and that he will talk with them -- as they need the invoice that he indeed bought the receiver from NAD. The dealer faxed me and them the invoice and the receipt from NAD on this unit with the date of purchased and all the details. I have called NAD and escalated to the highest manager there. I have talked with him and he told me that my dealer is right, and my unit is not from the gray market, and the fact that I don't have serial number is not a problem, because they tracked it down and found it -- I don't know how! And since I don't have anymore the box, I can't confirm it. Now, Hawk and Danman, to me it seems as a missprocess at NAD factory with quality check -- two options: 1. NAD Forgot to add the serial number at the end of the process. 2. NAD had a problem with this receiver and decided not to have serial number on the unit. From any angle I look on it, this sound not good. Now, if I have the time, I probably will sue NAD and my dealer -- to go figure out why there is no serial number on my unit. I even don't want to go to the direction of the hiss and the surround sound issue that I have with my unit. To me, the two options above are sever enough to tell people and especially my friend not to buy NAD anymore. As I influence before 5 years on 6 of my best friend to buy NAD because of the quality and sound, today, on my little spare of influence, I definitely will tell my friend to think twice (as I can't tell any one what to do, just provide the data). It can be philosophic argument, but this is not my intention, I feel bad because of this story, as I waited 3-4 months to have NAD, I have traveled especially to NY to authorized dealer by definition, and today, I found my self after work looking for a box and shipment arrangement to ship my sheet NAD -- and it will take at list 3-4 weeks till I will have it back. Now, with all the respect, you tell me if it worth it? I have no intention to tell good stories on other brand or company, it's only my story pure case of poor NAD quality. As I wrote before, it was not easy for me to tell you bad staff about my favorite NAD Company as I was for ling time a favorite of their product. Johnny, you wrote about the photography world, as you know, I am a big fun and own Nikon digital SLR camera, and the same as I am feeling for Nikon (with all of the competition to Canon), I felt for NAD products. And I am hopping that this will not happened to me with Nikon, as for the last 15 years, they didn't disappointed me, and everywhere you read about issue with their products, they treat it with high quality manner, not as NAD doing recently. Anyway, bottom line, NAD told me that my dealer bought the receiver from them, and not having a serial number is not a big deal -- this are the words from NAD Canada manager. Since I don't want to disrespect him, I will not write his name here, but you can send me an e-mail and I will be glad to return his name with his phone number as well. Thanks for sharing with me your thoughts, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 41 Registered: Feb-04 | Daniel; Wow. That is quite a story, and as I mentioned before - certainly a unique one. You have definately done all that you can - and more than any one customer should be required to - to solve this issue. There is no way that NAD should be taking this issue light-heartedly. Not having a serial number should garner much more of a response than "It's no big deal". I can honestly say that if I was in your position, I would have a very hard time recommending NAD as well. I have heard from several dealers that NAD reps, and managers are not the best in the world. Despite the fact that I am now (note NOW) a happy owner and like the brand... they really need to fix their QC, management, and customer service towards people like you. All the best in this crusade - I hope that it works out for you. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 108 Registered: Apr-04 | I am also looking forward to the result of this. I would not be happy as well. You have every right to take this further! I had a simular problem with my Honda car and dealer. I never won my case but I will never buy a Honda again even though they may have one of the best cars (as they say!). Service is at least 50% of the process when we buy items of these prices. There are not enough laws concerning this. If I were you, I would report this to consumer affairs and have them look into the issue. |
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Bronze Member Username: XvoidPost Number: 28 Registered: Jul-04 | The big problem for companies now is the Internet. They are now made accountable for the standard of their products and after sales service. There will always be problems with items and it is not fair to draw conclusions about a company or their products from isolated incidences but as we all know the main thing to watch out for are trends. For me personally, Daniel's Serial Number prob and tardy after sales service is one more step towards a grim outlook for NAD. I recently purchased a T763 and had it for 3 weeks before it had to go back for repairs to replace a noisy fan - took exactly one month to repair. I was not happy! I love my T763 but NAD are starting to get a very bad reputation for their after sales service. Things like not not making Firmware upgrades freely available from their website are also, to me, a sign of poor after sales support. I think NAD are going to be made accountable for their continued trend towards lack of after sales service through lost customers. I took the risk top buy NAD and I got bitten but how many people out there will not buy NAD because of the obvious trends visible on the forums? It amazes me how companies can ignore what's going on. Eventually it will all catch up with them. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 869 Registered: Feb-04 | What also surprises me is that NAD cant fix the damn hissing problem. We have a similar NAD problems thread on a Finnish forum and there people are having more or less the same problems as here. One guy had hiss with his T753 and returned it to get it fixed or get a non hissing version. The dealer gave him a 'fixed' T753 which was meant to have V2 software and no more hiss. Well when he hooked it up the hiss was the same as before, software was old V1.2x and there was no signs of any upgrades. What's the point? |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 109 Registered: Apr-04 | All of this makes me so happy that I have a 2 channel 372! I have never felt the need to buy a receiver since I listen to 75% music. My 372 is wonderful and it is my 5th Nad over the years and never had anything go wrong ever! I talked to my dealer about this during my lunch hour and he said he had never over 27 years had a problem such as this. He said NAD is not perfect but very close and the rep is wonderful. What can I say? He sells everything from Krell, Arcam YBA etc......and usually NAD has been more reliable! The worst was the Japanese such as sony and Denon which he no longer sells due to problems. This is strange in my book! |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 450 Registered: Dec-03 | Danman, As Hawk and I have stated earlier, this is what the dealers I have spoken with have said also. I was just thinking about something, I wonder if there can be any trends taken from the geographical location of those having the NAD problems? I may be totally way off base with this, but it seems that a lot of those who have had problems with their NAD units live outside of the US, while those who seem to report no problems seem to live mostly within the US (as are the dealers Hawk and I spoke with). Like I said, I may be way off base with this, but if a geographical trend could be found, maybe it would point to some sort of dirty power problem in certain areas as the cause of the problem and not the NAD itself. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 60 Registered: Sep-04 | I don't think that's it's a geographical problem with NAD, because I live 15 minutes away from their head office and my 773 also has the hiss, having said that...the Hiss is annoying at extremely low volumes or during the outmost quite passage during a movie or television but let it be said that most High end company will exibit the same behavior (Hiss) these companies tend to use less filters in their amplifier sections. case point when my retailer hooked up a $4000 linn pream/amplifier combo, guess what it hissed, not as loud but about 90% the volume of the Nad even when the volume control at the lowest setting. Will this help me sleep at night? probably not, I would just like to have this problem rectified. Some Hints that might help a little bit is to shut off all the anologue inputs from the onscreen display (this helped mine reduce about 5% of hiss), also Nad doesn't post their upgrades on the site is because, once the upgrade is taking place any disturbace or stopping of this process will render your receiver useless, broken, not operational, ka-put should I go on...I think you get my driff. Think how many people would screw up their units for a reason or another this would definetly become a problem for Nad. |
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Bronze Member Username: DarySao Paulo Brazil Post Number: 26 Registered: Apr-04 | I live in Brazil and had a 773. It showed sub bump noise when switching but I never heard hiss from it! |
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Silver Member Username: BleustarPensacola, Florida Post Number: 171 Registered: Jul-04 | I just think it is a bit sad that a $1000 -$1500 piece of brand new equipment would have hiss or hum problems and that people would put up with because it had very good overall sound. I read a Rotel forum often too, and there seems to be an awful lot of hiss and hum comments from new owners at that board too. I know the market share for both of these companies is small, so it makes me wonder why we don't here of hiss and hum problems nearly as often from Yamaha or Pioneer or Marantz. I assume these companies have a much larger market share, yet seem to have fewer hum and hiss issues. Also, I wonder if the problem is more apparent in multi-channel receivers than two-channel models. I'm not NAD bashing. I do love the NAD sound and I own a Rotel stereo receiver. It does seem strange that these problems seem to be so consistently discussed on this and other boards. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 50 Registered: Aug-04 | Sound Advice, me too I live 10 mins away from NAD so I'm closer than you. Do you hear any hum on the woofer when vol sets to 00db? I went back to my dealer again and found that 743 and 753 were quite at 00db and starts to hiss at -74db. T763 is worst b/c it hiss at -74db same as the 743 and 753 but I heard a hum at 00db.I was able to speak to a technician at NAD and he told me that they can not promise to fix the hiss issue and if I'm not happy I can return the unit and refund my money. Wow see how the way he answered, meaning they can not fix the hiss and I forgot to mention to him the hum on the T763 Sorry for my grammar, Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 61 Registered: Sep-04 | Larz, Just checked my subwoofer and at 00db no hums. Can anyone outthere with a t773 report if their unit is hiss free at lower volumes? and if so what have they done to fix it or did their unit come that way? |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 298 Registered: Mar-04 | Bluestar said:
When I was dealing with a percieved T742 issue, I spoke with a NAD rep a couple times on the phone. I actually asked him the same question about the apparent lack of hiss in the Yamaha, Denon, etc receivers. He stated that those companies do agressively filter out hiss but as a result their sound suffers from it as desired audio to some degree, is also filtered out. He said, listen to a Denon or a Yamaha, and a NAD, side by side, you'll hear what I'm talking about. I'm paraphrasing his words here but that was basically what he was saying. How much was "NAD-spin" I'm not sure. I'm no audio engineer but I will say in a side by side comparison I much preferred the NAD sound to the Denon sound. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 52 Registered: Aug-04 | Sound Advice, I mean the woofer on your speaker and not the subwoofer.The hiss is audible on the tweeter but the hum is audible on the woofer and not much on the tweeter. Please try at 00db and place your ear close to the woofer and let know if you will hear hum and some noise. |
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Bronze Member Username: DarySao Paulo Brazil Post Number: 28 Registered: Apr-04 | I returned a 773 because of loud subwoofer bump when any swichting took place (surround, source, etc) but it never showed hiss or hum. There were 2 occasions with no sound coming out when I switched to PLII surround mode. The unit had a very low serial number (around 250). One authorized service center told me there were service notes for my unit: 1) adding capacitors to the muting circuit to prevent mute transistors failure and 2) adding other capacitors to the surround processor board to avoid "clicks". Aside of that, they are updating the software to v2.05a. Anyway, I opted to return the unit and wait for the factory installed PLIIx units. I hope those units have most problems fixed... I can't find a better sounding receiver for the money! |
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Robert Ward Unregistered guest | Mathew Can you please briefly describe the symptoms of your noisy fan that had to be replaced ? What type of noise was it and was it continuous or intermittent? Robert |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 878 Registered: Feb-04 | Here's some hissing NAD stuff from homecinema-fr: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29733761&postdays=0&postorder =asc&start=810 |
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Silver Member Username: StoneWest CoastUSA Post Number: 106 Registered: Dec-03 | Boy, I never see myself buying anything but a seperate component like a multi channel amplifier from NAD. And then, with so many other great choices I may not even risk getting a seperate from them without a lot of research. It's just not worth the potential future headaches. If your willing to spend a little more, or buy used there is so much other high quality gear out there. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Is there any data about the NAD T163 with 973, about the sound and the quality? Is it better than the 973 that the higher price of these preamp and amp justify it? I have talked with my dealer and he told me that I would hear the different between the T773 and the 163 with 973. From what I have read in NAD web site, it is totally different configuration from hardware point of view, as the amplifier 973 is more based on C372 stereo amplifier, which has very good reputation and performance? Thanks, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: XvoidPost Number: 29 Registered: Jul-04 | Robert The day I got the T763 home and connected it up, there was what I can only describe as a slight rattling noise from the fan(s) in the unit (ie not the normal fan whirring sound). At first I could only hear it by placing my head right next to the receiver and it didn't cause a real noise problem. Then one day on week three, all hell broke loose it was so loud you could hear it from at least 3 metres away - same noise but much, much louder! After waiting a month(!) to get my unit fixed, it came back with no rattling but the normal, very slight whirring sound of a fan (at close range). I got no problem with the concept of faulty stuff (that can be fixed) - as bad as it looks for NAD, it happens. My complaint is that it took a month to get fixed by an authorised NAD repairer! That's NAD after sales service.  |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 672 Registered: Dec-03 | Daniel: Given your unhappiness with the T773, I would strongly urge you to consider the NAD T163/T973 combo. One of my local NAD dealers has already replaced their Anthem seperates with the NAD combo and another NAD dealer has also begun to feature the combo, replacing Aragon separates. This is because the 163/973 is a superb combo and less expensive than the competition. I had the opportunity to audition the NAD combo directly against the Anthem seperates (while they were still up) and I must say that the NAD sounded smoother and a little more refined (which is saying alot, as the Anthems are a very good product). As I have said before, you clearly have some legitimate gripes about the NAD you have, but upon reflection, I think you are the type of buyer who should be into separates, anyways (regardless of the brand). I have long maintained that if you are looking to spend $2K or more, one should start to look into seperates rather than getting a receiver, and the price of the 773 is getting into the range of what you can get the combo for. I also believe NAD is "sailing close to the wind," attempting to deliver the sound of good separates from their receivers. As they get bigger, however, this becomes harder to do as you are cramming more and more electronics into a small space with greater likelyhood that you will get some type of electronic crosstalk. The reason NADs are more susceptible to this, IMO, is the fact that they may use more sensitive parts (that is, parts that will produce greater sound quality, but which may be more susceptible to inteference). For example, your NAD uses a power supply that is considerably more powerful than almost anything else in its price range (I have only found that power supply in large power amps from other well known audiophile brands, but not in any other receivers). Consequently, your NAD receiver has more deliverable power to the output section, but this may result in another part of the receiver picking up a hum (after all, NAD is one of the very few receivers that actually delivers its power rating into more than two channels, and a real, delivered 110 wpc means the receiver is pumping 770 wpc when fully configured, and that doesn't account for NAD's well known "dynamic headroom"). These are legitimate tradeoffs, which differ from the tradeoffs made my most of the mass market receiver makers (an Onkyo TX-SR901, for instance, comparably priced to your T773, is rated at 125 wpc, but when driving five channels it can only put out 50 wpc, so they sacrifice power to eliminate any chance of an electronic hum in the unit). Most other receiver makers also make such compromises to insure that their product cannot produce a hum, but my experience is that this is usually at the expense of really good sound. However, problems like a hum is largely ameliorated by putting the power amp sections and the pre-amp/processor sections into two seperate boxes, with their own EMI/RFI shielding (the additional space between them also helps). When we speak of high end audio manufacturers, you would be hard pressed to name one that even makes a receiver (B&K is the only one I can think of)--instead, they all concentrate on making separates. Given your disappointment with the T773, I can appreciate being concerned about the quality of the 163/973 seperates. Certainly, I have not taken them home to try out (I would really like to, however!), but I have listened to them at some length and I must say I was very impressed. I believe your dealer is correct that the output stages of the 973 appear to be the same units used in the 372 and the 272 power amp (the 973 is really a 272 except with 7 channels instead of 2, plus a much bigger power supply), so it has even more power than your 773. The 163 is a unique design apparently unrelated to any other current NAD product, but I know it caused quite a buzz at the CEDIA show a year ago last September where it was introduced. It certainly broke the price paradigm for that quality of a pre/pro. I believe they will solve any hum problems you may have. Therefore, I would suggest they are worthy of an audition, at the very least, and you will probably get even better sound quality. Now, if you wanted to go the separates route other than NAD, you should check out the Outlaw Audio separates. Their 950 pre/pro is the same pre/pro sold in a different color by Sherbourne (at twice the price). I don't think the Outlaw is quite as good as the NAD T163, but it is better than what is available in most receivers. Outlaw also offers three different amps, the 7100, the 755 and the 770. They are very competitively priced and very good quality, as well. The 7100 is not as warm sounding as the NAD amps, so be careful of your speaker selection with this amp. The 755 and 770, however, sound pretty similar to the NAD, IMO (I believe they are sourced from a different manufacturer than is the 7100). Check them out at www.outlawaudio.com. Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 892 Registered: Feb-04 | The T163/T973 doesn't seem to be any better: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=7af23c336455127647382acd641c144c &threadid=464569 |
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Robert Ward Unregistered guest | Thanks Mathew I have the same fan problem. It appears that NAD does not value the people buying their products. Keeping you waiting for a month for a fan repair is crazy. I hope I have better luck. Robert |
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JonD Unregistered guest | Landroval, you definitely have an axe to grind and IMHO are damaging your credibility on this board with your consistent negative comments re: NAD. i will assume from now on that you work for a competitor. your points have been well recorded and duly noted by all. if you don't like NAD, then consider yourself screwed, sell your receiver on eBay, and buy something else. for what it's worth, i bought a 763 6 weeks ago and it works great. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 453 Registered: Dec-03 | Jon, I think you are the only one who is damaging their credibility on this board. Attacking a regular and respected member of the forum is not the way to make a good first impression. I think if you would read some of landroval's other posts, you would see that he often recommends NAD to others. He is just a little frustrated (justifiably) with his malfunctioning NAD unit. If you are going to bash people, at least have the guts to register |
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JonD Unregistered guest | Johnny, I can't have an opinion unless I have the "guts" to tell you my home town, occupation and full HT set-up? |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 896 Registered: Feb-04 | JonD, I just felt it was better to post the link than not post it. I think it's better to have all the info on the subject than cover up facts so that NAD owners would 'feel better'. |
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JonD Unregistered guest | Landroval, fair enough. i can understand your frustration. good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 454 Registered: Dec-03 | Jon, Opinions are great, I mean, that is really the only thing that any of us can offer, at least in terms of sound quality etc. It is not your opinion that I was concerned with, it was your personal attacks. I guess no harm no foul since landroval doesn't seem to be offended, but personal attacks don't help anyone. If you disagree with someones comments, then so be it. But, the best way to disagree is to comment on your own experiences, not to thrash another person. It is fine to disagree with someone, but comments like "I will assume that you work for a compeditor" and "you are screwed...buy something else" don't really help anyone. Personal attacks will only drive would be contributors away. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 121 Registered: Dec-03 | At the risk of jumping into the fire, I also want to stick up for Landroval. He has defended NAD products many times, not only here but at the AVS forum. I also have the NAD T763 and am continuing to buy more NAD products. It is hard to read so many dissatisfied customers of one product especially when I own one and really like it. Sometimes we feel the need to defend the company even though perhaps it is our need to defend our own decisions. I simply hope that anyone with a defective product of any manufacturer can get it taken care of and that the manufacturer will stand behind it. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Thanks Hawk and everyone. Yes, we should respect each other in this forum! I appreciate all the inputs, to me its help a lot. I have decided, since I have issues with my NAD T773 and will ship it this week to customer service, and hopefully it will be fixed, I have started to look for other receivers and or preamp with amplifier systems. I admitted that I look also on NAD T163 with the 973 amplifier -- it sounded good, but I will not take another chance to have quality issues with NAD -- as I really don't have the time and energy for that. I have talked with my wife, and the NAD T773 (once it will be fixed) will be in the family room, and the new system that I will buy will be in the living room. As of that, I probably will buy the ARCAM AVR300 or the Pre amp with the amplifier (AV8 with the P7) -- will see if I can have a good deal -- will probably will wait till Jan-05. For our subject: For now, I will not buy anymore NAD products, and I will not buy NAD items until NAD will admit they have a major quality issues, and they have a corrective action in place to fix these issues. NAD should publish it and have these fixes available for all the costumers. I have no problem with company having issues, though, I have a big problem with company that doesn't admit with issue in public and will not try to fix them, and will think that we as a costumers have a limited knowledge or in other words -- this is just an insult to our intelligence! Having say that, if NAD will have a corrective action in place for their quality issues, I am sure that NAD will be one of the leading companies in the home theater arena -- NAD have the sound in place... Thanks, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: KanoPost Number: 49 Registered: Oct-04 | Just because a company won't admit they have defective units in their product line, doesn't mean they aren't working hard to fix the problems. While a company that admits full responsiblity and spares no expense in fixing the problem is preferable, realise that it's good business to make money. Admitting fault is not readily done in the business world as it opens the door to losses. Obviously the multichannel receiver is not prefected by NAD, but I wouldn't discount the proven quality of their pre-amps, power amps, CD/DVD players, etc. Reading all the comments I will presonally stay away from their multi-channel receivers as there seems to be far too many defective units in the market. I wonder if the defective units are all the earliest ones? You guys should all compare manufacture dates to see if there's a connection. The Xbox game console is a prime example of this, with all the earliest units having a very weak DVD drive that had a relatively short life span. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 455 Registered: Dec-03 | Daniel, Man, what an enviable position to be in (aside from the NAD issues you have been having). You will have the wonderful NAD T773 as a SECONDARY RECEIVER!! With that and the Arcam running, you better save a little extra for those electricity bills every month. :-) Good luck!! I would like to hear your impressions of the NAD vs. the Arcam once you get them both hooked up and everything. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 63 Registered: Sep-04 | I've also had it, the Nad t773's going back, I will be purchasing an Arcam. the Nad sounded wonderfull at regular listening levels but at lower level it's just too painfull...(the Hiss and fan noise) What a disapointment I wanted to love this Nad so much, I also wanted the manufacturer to say the problem will be fixed shorthly but that's not the case, I've heard the Arcam on a fiew occasions and I do believe that it has a slight advantage over the Nad but it's a little pricy. I will surely miss my Nad... |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all, again, It's a weekend and I have time to write again. Well I continue to take a look into the NAD receiver more closely and deeply. I know that some of you think that THX certification is not so important to have this sign on the receiver. I partially agree with you, but just if this is a good receiver with very low signal to noise, and the company don't want to pay more money to certify their product through THX and not to increase the receiver price. Let me take you back 10 years, to you my friends as worked in the high tech industry, you probably remember the ISO9000 certification. If not, I can tell you and make it short: at the beginning of the 90', there was a trend of ISO9000 certification, and basically, company from England certify high tech factories with ISO9000, the concept was simple (and even today), make sure that your product complete the process in high quality manner, and to achieve it, the high tech factories needed to document everything through procedures and specifications. For every activity, the high tech needed to have well documented procedure that all employees must know it, from the factory manager all the way down to the engineering and technician. And many high tech factories worked hard to achieve this ISO9000 certification. You probably ask, why this related to NAD and THX. Well, my friends, after looking very carefully on NAD products, most of them with the current signal to noise and quality sound issue like hiss and hum will not be able to be certify with THX. And, yes, it's not about the receiver price or like Hawk wrote that NAD building their product with very sensitive devices to achieve better sound performance - its about the ability of NAD to make receiver with very low signal to noise ratio. Yes, they have the silver line certified by THX, but these products are relative old, and are not represent the majority of their line products. I audit the NAD T163 and the 973 amplifiers, and I must admit it sounded good and better than the T773, but it was noisy as well with hiss - while the ARCAM THX preamp with the amplifier (although the price is higher) smokes the NAD away, and I could not even hear from 20cm from the speakers any hiss noise. I think that if NAD wanted to return back to business, they should do three things: 1. Reduce the S/N ratio. 2. Be certify by THX. 3. Do not increase the price. Simple steps. With all my empathic to NAD, I think that within 3-4 years, they will loose the market to Rotel and ARCAM, companies with the same price range, very good quality units, very low S/N, very good features and with overall same sound quality. Let me finish with the ISO9000, yep, the high tech that certified by this England company, grow up, had more market share and sell more products due to higher quality than company without ISO9000 certification. Have a good weekend, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 66 Registered: Sep-04 | Well, I've had it, my Nad t773's going back (Officialy) the Arcam Avr 250 is on order and it should be anytime next week. To Nad, it is sad to exchange my unit because it did sound extremely good but I just couldn't take the Hiss anymore, until this problem is fixed good luck! I did write in the past that hiss is normal for some company's that don't use filters to alter the sound in anyway but the Hiss in the Nad was just to audible. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 54 Registered: Aug-04 | Sound Advice, Who is your dealer? if you don't mind. I spoke to a NAD technical staff and said that the hiss is coming from the dsp board and it's normal to all Txx3 receivers, but still I was not convinced. Maybe they are waiting the warranty to ......? How much is the Arcam 250? Audio One in Toronto is having a big sale on all ARCAM receivers at factory price on the 20th of this month maybe you can check it out. I'm interested too. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 70 Registered: Sep-04 | Hi Larz, The list price is $2299.99 CDN, it seems that the aggressive price on the unit is around $2100.00. I've been to Audio One, Metropolitan Sound, Oakville Audio and That Little Hi Fi shop. I've also spoken to the Nad sales rep who claims that the noise is coming from the anologue stage, appearently during the 7X2 series people would complain that you have to listen to the amplifier all the way up before getting any real volume...I say to this turn it up as much as you can as long that there is no audible distortion...Well they made some adjustments and you get it...more volume more noise. Anyway that's not my problem anymore. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 55 Registered: Aug-04 | Daniel, I agree with you. Noise and distortion are the number one enemy of audio industry, so why NAD is suffering from these? |
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Johnny Cross Unregistered guest | Larz, You have been constantly haranguing NAD for all you are worth. Why don't you just trumpet the grandeur of your purchase in another thread, for a Cambridge Audio Azure 540, is it? - and forget about NAD. NAD is REALLY not for you. Everytime I see your name around, it is always a negative for NAD. And please tell to the world that when you graduated from MIT with a degree in Engineering, it is not Massachusets Institute of Technology for crying out loud, but Mapua (ever heard of Mapua Institute of Technology, people?). |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 917 Registered: Feb-04 | Johnny Cross/JonD, still denying the facts. Are you a NAD dealer or just a happy customer? |
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L'Wood Unregistered guest | If I may break into the 'Crosstalk' on this subject, are the problems noted here just with A/V receivers, or do they also come into play with 2-channel Stereo receivers? I've had the NAD C 740 for a week demo and haven't experienced any of the noted problems...as a matter of fact, I'm very impressed with the warmth and clarity compared to the Yamaha A/V receiver I currently have. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 56 Registered: Aug-04 | Johny Cross I'm proud of my school but how do you know it's Mapua? Now I know how popular my school is. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | L'Wood, As I owned NAD stereo amplifier I didn't experience any issue with my NAD unit. This is why I asked this forum about the amplifier 973 unit. And as Hawk wrote, the 973 amplifier is build differently than the T773 receiver, so I went and audit the 163 preamp with the 9973 amplifier and I heard the hiss noise same as it is from my NAD 773 receiver. So bottom line, I don't know if there are free hiss noise units from the current models of NAD stereo, amplifier and receiver. In addition, I do know that my old NAD stereo receiver was from England. Today, and please correct me if I wrong, from what I have read, the NAD company was changed the owner, at the early 90' used to owned, developed and manufactured at England, but around end of the 90', the company changed owners and moved to Canada (headquarter), and most of their manufactories are China based. If I remember right, in the early 90' NAD trended up with the development, sound and sells and even revenue. Today, I think that what left from NAD is only the great name and reputation they used to have in the 90'. And just short comparison with my friends in US and in Europe, shows me that that today ARCAM have the same trend up from sound, quality, market share, sells and revenue. And this is not surprising me! As ARCAM, owned by British company has the same approach for costumer first as NAD used to have. And that's my friends is making the different, especially for long term. Iarz, Let me try and answer your question about signal to noise, although, I will start that I am not an engineer and my background is from Physic and Math, and all, please feel free to correct me. When you develop and try to build an amplifier system, you would like to insert to the box a small electronic signal or amplitude and to increase it by using electronics devices (mainly transistors) and have the output amplitude signal increase by factor X. For this, you will need all the time to keep your input signal clean from noise. Let's say that your input signal is not clean, you will have the noise increase by factor Y and then, your signal to noise will be X/Y. This is what we call signal to noise ratio. Now, pay attention that I wrote that the noise is increase by different factor to the input amplitude signal, and this is mainly due to capacitors using in the receiver or amplifiers systems, to try and clean the noise as much as possible while increasing the input amplitude signal. Ok, now that we agreed on the signal to noise ratio, some of the companies are not doing good work with keeping the in put noise low post the amplification, and some of the companies are not doing a good work with keeping the amplification process clean from noise. And d not be naive, in all the amplification process there is a noise. There are no amplification process free noises. Now, in the receivers units, since there are more electronics devices inside the units, for the amplification process, for the radio, and for the preamp processor as well, the noise level is higher than in the just amplifier units. Remember, as much as the amplifier is simple from amplification process as much as the signal to noise is better. In high end amplifiers, you will not find (almost) many electronics devices inside the unit, and you will find tubes doing the amplification process. Return back to NAD, I think that NAD with their honesty and the run after the high watt out put receivers lost the ability, either to keep the incoming noise low, or lost the ability to keep the noise low from the unit electronic devices. In the early 90' NAD used to do it very well with 2 channel stereo amplifiers, as it was not so complicated like today with 5 or 7 channels receivers. The trick today is to keep the watt output high, clean sound and with reasonable signal to noise ratio. And its not simple. I think that a starting point, NAD need to listen to her costumers, understand what are their expectations from the unit, and how is the actual unit performance against the expectations. And that my friends, NAD is not doing at all, and therefore, I predict (if I can write so) that within 2-3 years, companies like Rotel and ARCAM will take all the market share from NAD. By the way, there is no competition between Denon, Yamaha and NAD as in my mind people who like NAD will move ever to Yamaha or to Denon (and vise versa), they just will move to Rotel and ARCAM, and this is the biggest issue for NAD. And another point of thinking, although, I think (for me) overall that NAD sound is better than Yamaha, I do think that Yamaha is doing an excellent work with reducing to minimum the noise level in their product (see RXV1500 and RXV2500 models). Hope that this address the questions raised in the forum. Thanks, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 42 Registered: Feb-04 | People - let's get a grip here. These forums are for discussion on problems/solutions... not this "my receiver is quiter than yours" crap, or slander against one another. Of course people are biased here - if they spent money on a NAD, they feel the need to defend the product. I bought a NAD T773, and it's great. There is a bit of noise with no source signal present, but it's only audible when volume is OVER 0dB. That is a very unrealistic volume anyway. Coming from years of pro audio experience, there is always some amount of thermal noise in the gain stage. So be it. If it suits you, buy it... if not, take what you read here with a grain of salt, sort through all the crap, and buy whatever you want. If that Arcam, Great. Denon? Fill your boots. Whatever twirls your beenie - purchase it and enjoy. Just do the rest of us a favour, and stop saying that all NAD is crap, because it's not. L'WOOD; The NAD C270 does not have the problems that are discussed here. These issues are with the NAD A/V receievers only. I've installed a 270 into the parents place, and it's been running for a year now with no problems, mechanical or audible. It is a great unit. BTW - I went to the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology - but does anybody REALLY care?? Exactly. |
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johnh Unregistered guest | NAD has a great sound ... too bad it also has problems. Returned 2 T753s, twice each, over a period of months, the last of which went back to NAD for repair, but with no improvement. They had low level, but unacceptable, hum in any surround mode. I've owned NAD gear since the early 80s - this performance was a disappointment. Finally ended up with ARCAM AV200. Clean sound, less punch than NAD, BUT no hum with the ARCAM. NAD, by the way, started in England, was owned in 90s by a Danish firm, though still designed in England, then sold around year 2000 to Lenbrook of Canada (also owns PSB speakers). Some early principals still remain involved with the firm. NAD has always contracted out manufacturing to the far east, China now, where many Japanese electronics giants also manufacture their gear now. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 128 Registered: Dec-03 | Brad, my thoughts exactly. |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 44 Registered: Feb-04 | johnh; I do agree with you... although I am Canadian, it pains me to say that NAD's move here hasn't helped them in the slightest. Hopefully that will change. I also wonder how many of us are running GOOD power conditioners with our gear... I know that it can make a difference, and I've heard that NAD may be more succeptable to the problems inherent with the horrible power we all get from the street. Something to ponder. Johnathan; Thanks! |
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New member Username: PsykoPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-04 | Daniel, Which New York NAD dealer did you purchase your 773 from? |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Psyko, I have purcased my NAD T773 receiver from ABC royal music cinema at NY canal st. Again, as I wrote before, I am very happy with my dealer, as I purchased from him many electronics staff (not just the NAD receiver), and he tried to help me as much as he can with NAD... Good luck, Daniel |
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Unregistered guest | Brad- Good for you, flaunt your true colors as we all have and are entitled to on the internet and these specific issues. Your opinion has been duly noted. It does, of course, have no greater value than those of the others- only equal to, no better or worse than mine et al. The recurrent theme still exists, your sense is uderscored by the fact that you are a satisfied NAD owner, a staunch supporter, one of relative few, who chooses not to tolerate legions of NAD complaints. Your apparent offense of NAD bashing is further contrasted by the dissatisfaction of owners experiencing problems. These reported problems are not a faint murmur but a resounding roar. Contrary to your opinion, my opinion is that the whole purpose of these many threads and posts on NAD QC is indeed to eliminate BIAS and objectively accumulate information via reports on NAD issues. To this end, all the opinions, facts and reports have been archived for all to read. Any prospective NAD A/V purchaser can now better make a logical decision independent of specific views and wholly dependent on the total. The overall merit of this forum has been fulfilled as we have all learned something about NAD and consumers are now better better educated as to whether or not to purchase an A/V. |
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JonD Unregistered guest | Rotel is 25% more expensive and Arcam is 50% more expensive than NAD (at least). so, if you guys have convinced yourselves that you are hearing hissing/humming noises (or voices), then spend the extra cash to solve your problem. it's pretty clear from reading these boards that there is a significant gap in sound quality (and price) b/t Denon, Yamaha, H/K, Sony, Onkyo et al and Rotel/Arcam. everyone knows this so no need to belabor this point. NAD fills this gap and has fair price/performance, IMHO. now everyone relax and go listen to their Alison Krauss DVD-A. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 110 Registered: Apr-04 | All I can say about this conversation is that I am somewhat confused. I went to my dealer this weekend and tried all the models listed here and I did not ear any hiss or hum or whatever!! He says he never had any of these issues. Maybe someone can expalin as to why!? I have a 372 and it is my 5th Nad over the years and not ONE of them ever had any issues at all! |
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L'Wood Unregistered guest | Thanks for the update on Stereo NAD receivers...I found a company, Jolida, that makes a 'Hybrid' amp, tubes and solid state...is anyone here familiar with them? THanks. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 129 Registered: Dec-03 | L'Wood, I was doing a bit of research on Jolida amps. A really good place to do that is at Audio Asylum (below are two saved searches: one in the planar asylum and the other in the amp asylum): http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?forum=amp&searchtext=jolida You can also look at audioreview.com http://audioreview.com/SearchResultscrx.aspx?forumchoice=&s=&query=&Index=&showp osts=0&searchterm=jolida§ion=Products Or Audiogon http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl As to the NAD stereo amps, I have not seen any complaints regarding the power or integrated amps as are showing up on the surround receivers. In fact, the C320BEE is really a highly rated amp as well as others. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 130 Registered: Dec-03 | JonD, I think you are right on here. The problem with going to Rotel and Arcam is the price. At those price points, you have to start looking at separates. What NAD was doing was providing a taste of the higher sound at mid-fi price. If I felt that NAD was unacceptable because of hiss/hum issues, I wouldn't buy a receiver at $2,000 USD to replace it but look at separates at that price point. |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 45 Registered: Feb-04 | JAW; Thanks for YOUR personal opinion too. Perhaps you misunderstood me though. My main "pet-peeve" is the slander against one another, something which has nothing to do with audio forums. I whole-heartedly believe that this forum, and others like it, are for the non biased sharing of informaion / problems / solutions that we have with our AV gear. I am a somewhat satisfied NAD customer - as I too had issues with T762's and T763's. I didn't know that these problems were known ones until I stumbled across this forum, where I learned a great deal. To that end I DO tolerate NAD complaints - because I had them too, and was more than happy to voice them. It was, after all, through this very forum that I choose to go with a 773, as it didn't have anywhere NEAR the complaints as the others. JAW, As you stated in your response "[my opinion] does, of course, have no greater value than those of the others- only equal to, no better or worse than mine et al." Is right on... so why did you feel the need to comment so heavily on my opinion... when it doens't carry that much weight? Your post - to me - goes against the very thing you were trying to say. But, we digress. Have a good one all! |
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Unregistered guest | Brad, firstly, you're right on the C270, many consumer opinions report it as a trouble-free premium sound/value: http://audioreview.com/Amplifiers/NAD/PRD_125423_1583crx.aspx -right along with all their other amps. Secondly, yes, my views were stricly qualified in the post as my opinion. All the rest is clarified in the post. Lastly, own a T752 that has no hiss or hum or problems. This does not mitigate any of the issues reported by so many disgruntled NAD owners because, my opinion, it's NAD's problem and baggage to resolve to the satisfaction of current and potential owners. The issues exist and they a'int doing anything about it. I hope they continue to grumble and let all considering to buy know about it and why. My NAD was purchased because the sound for the money was the best, not by light years, but still clearly the best to my ears only. I also could care less that the NAD name is on this particular unit; I would have bought the receiver if Homer Simpson's name was stamped on it - because it sounds so good. Would also love to enjoy my Alison Kraus disc right now except my NAD A/V is back in the shop. |
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Elmosaurus Unregistered guest | Howdy all. New here, so I'll try to make this brief. I'll also cross posted this over in the 'NAD A/V Hiss issue' thread. I auditioned a T763 Saturday. I have been reading each and EVERY response that a search hit comes up with 'NAD' and 'T743,T753,T763' on both this and AVSforum. (WAY too many hours wrapped up in reading about this stuff this past week) I was initially looking at a 753, but decided I really wanted to listen to the torroid power supply, as that's what I have come to be accustomed with. I coupled it together with the T533, largely based on what John A. wrote in his audio thread about it, as I respect his opinion. (kudos again for the great write up John) I was honestly tepid, since I have not owned or auditioned anything NAD after the Canadian owned company buyout; but I did recall the quality of sound and exuberant life that my old NAD 310 used to give music before I moved past it to my Adcom GFA5300 for more power. (larger room) Flat out, yes, there is a 'hiss'. NO, it's not major. I've heard just about all the amplifiers I've ever could imagine a person sensibly taking the time to audition, (meaning, usually at least a solid 45 minutes of varied composition in a dedicated audition setup room), and EVERYTHING makes a 'hiss' at this level to the least. To point; There's a reason the high end amps don't filter the hiss out like the retail japanese brands do; Filters are indiscriminate. A filter will kill anything, hiss, noise, or source without knowing it, as long as it's in that frequency profile. That's like dropping a certain frequency spectrum with an EQ down 4% in one section. Hardly what I'd want to be done to my source when shooting for accurate pristine reproduction. I brought my own B&W DM602's with my own AudioQuest bi-wire so as to keep things within frame of reference. (I always do for auditions; one of the nice things about midsize non-floorstanding speakers) Back to the 'hiss'. It's negligible. Even $4000+ sunfire amps makes this 'hiss' at sub 1M distance from a good set of efficient speakers when the volume is at the normal audible listening level. Don't believe me, go check. There was no 'hummm'. I've read a bunch about it on these forums, and I can't recall and give the man due credit, but someone spoke with a Denmark engineer that worked for NAD, who had tracked it down to two bad diodes on the board near the power supply. They were spec'd for 110*F operation limit in the T7x0, T7x1 series, but when the power levels went up in the 7x2 and 7x3 series, the heat went up, and was frying the diodes. Replacement with the 140*F spec version has since cured this problem, and any current production/recently shipped units from NAD should have corrected this. For the facts, it was a 2.0 firmware T763 from an authorized dealer in the Suburbs of Philadelphia. From my listening position, approx 9 feet direct from ear to speaker, you could not hear a hiss until you hit around -15 db. That's ALOT of volume for the average recording from any CD. I was driving music through the ENTIRE STORE with the audition room doors CLOSED AND SEALED at anything over -10. (albeit, they were french doors with glass panes all throughout, but we're still talking about a store the size of a medium 2500 sq ft home with no exposed exterior windows and all walls insulated for sound!) I had one customer come in because he heard it all from the other side of the store and wanted to see what I was up to. He stayed for the audition and we shared some thoughts on the supposed 'hiss' issue, the amps character, the preamps flexibilty, and the T533's DAC compared to the T763's DAC. As you progress into the + db range of the amp, it does begin to create a slight hiss, and is as audible from the listening position as a person pursing their lips and blowing like they're extinguishing a match at arms length. NOT loud, NOT noticable unless it's dead silent, and even then, at the volume of even QUIET source material, + db signals can be DEAFENING at that distance. (Hearing damage is cumulative. This has been my public service announcement) Amp: Clean. Pure. Traditional NAD. I was quite pleased. No crazy color, no brash 'manifested' dynamics. While using the stereo bypass, no DSP processing in the preamp, and pure analog signal from the DAC in the T533, it was a performance on par with amps I've auditioned 2x - 3x the price envelope. (street price, not list) I can't say enough good things about the amp section; it is NAD to the core. That should say it all. Pre-amp: I have to admit, I was quite pleased. I looked for a shortcoming, and really, I didn't find one. It worked the way it was supposed to, switching was straight forward and fast, reprogramming an inputs source connections was easy and understandble without having more than glanced at the manual before hand. (I did print them out from the NAD site, which I give them kudos for; I appreciate a company not hiding their manuals from the world) When not using an input source for an input, it's easy to just shut it off entirely from the input setup menu. Whether this really silences any incoming feed noise from the input or not I couldn't tell you, it just stopped the DSP from looking for the signal, and thus, would not blink on the FlouroDisplay to warn you the signal was lost. If there was any noise before I shut them off, I couldn't hear it, even at 0 db with no source. (this is not -00db which is at the bottom of the volume scale; it's way up past where one would normally listen to audio for a reader that isn't familiar with NAD's volume scale; -00db jumps to -74db then gradiates in 1db increments to 0db and then on to +18 db) Remote: This deserves a special note. The HTR2-8 that comes with all of the T7x3 series units is one of the best universal programmables I've come across. And I've had ALOT. (from the oldest SONY AVR-2000's to the newer Philips Pronto lineup) The HTR is fast and easy to recall a library code, or take one and augment it with specific programming on certain buttons. And it's SMALL/SLIM. It's got all the main functions you'll ever really need, but is not so overbearing as to be intimidating. Even my neophyte gf figured it out relativly quickly. Large, multi hundred dollar display based universal remotes are powerful, but are not exactly 'couch friendly' nor do they 'hold' well usually. The HTR easily swallows many commands (including macros!) quickly and easily and still maintains a small, easily handled profile that is not overly intimidating. This remote alone should be factored into the purchase price of a T7x3 unit, since to get this kind of flexibility, you'd have to spend $100 plus easily on another universal, and you STILL wouldn't have the slimness and ease of handling that this HTR provides! T533: This is a pretty standard fare DVD player. After the first CD's audition, and a fairly warm entrance greeting, I was floored when it wouldn't load my second CD. It'd spin up, and.... nothing. Tried a different disc. Again....nothing. Peculiar head stratching began. I finally voiced my compliant to my dealer, who had come in wondering why it was so quiet in the room for more than 5 minutes straight (tells you how 'audible' I was driving the system :-D lol ) and we both stared for a second. He told me it was disturbing, as it was a new unit he had JUST removed from the packaging for ME. We grabbed another of the shelf, unpacked it, and it worked fine. The first must have been a casualty of UPS handling. He gets that in ALL makes of DVD/CD pieces at times, anything with moving parts really. I did not have a DVD-A disc on hand to try that I was familiar enough to tell you whether it's DAC was doing the job 'right', so I'll refrain from making a judgement there. (I don't own a DVD-A player yet, so why would I own the discs? :-P ) I did audition one of the stores DVD-A discs though, and it was musical transcendance. John A. wasn't kidding. I see it replacing the CD inside of 5 years, once DVD-A players are more common in mainstream stores like Best Buy, Ciruit City, and such. DAC vs DAC: (T533 vs T763) This was a tough one. I used a bunch of material, and flip flopped back and forth between the two DAC's, end of track, mid track, etc. I honestly have no judgement on this. They're both pretty darn Good. Are they Calif Audio Labs good? enh. But then again, you're talking midfi components; there is a definite price reality here. Are they good for the price? No, they're GREAT for the price. Some people say that Denon DAC's are more advanced, faster, high bit rate, etc. I think that even if the circuitry for the DSP is spec'd better, the supporting circuits must also do the job, which I don't think Denon's build quality is on par with at staying or coming as close to Class 'A', as NAD is. That's IMHO of course. (Not trying to be a Denon'hater) Overall: In closing, I think that theme from the DAC vs DAC pervades. For the PRICE, this is GREAT gear. I likened Audiophile gear to fine wines when I tried to explain to my gf/prospectus fiance why spending this enormous sum of money was acceptable. ANYONE can buy a $70 bottle of bordeaux. It's going to taste great, have great body, a subtle character, etc. It's expected with that kind of price tag; if you can afford it that is. The pure joy of shopping is when you find that happenstance $12 bottle, that tastes almost as good, has all the right character and body for you, and leaves you realizing that it cost you one FIFTH of what a 'sure thing' would have been. THAT is how I see NAD. It's price for performance (assuming a fully functioning unit that 'should' be the norm in all future shipments) is PHENOMENAL for someone that is serious about musicality of a system. So, That's my 'short' review. I hope it gives any prospective buyers out there some real insight; If there were any issues with hum (mis-specd diode during a chassis upgrade) or supposed hiss (not really as audibile as some may have reported it to be), I DID NOT SEE THEM DURING MY AUDITION. This should make it abundantly clear to everyone, as always when spending this kind of money, AUDITION IN PERSON before you buy. Had I just bought on site, or online, that DOOB (dead out of the box) T533 would have been home with me before I discovered it. I drove 2.5 hours EACH WAY to have this audition; it's a bigger deal than you would initially think. ....And yes, I did spend all day yesterday listening to my new purchases. I definitely found my $12 bottle. :-D E. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 138 Registered: Dec-03 | Elmosaurus: Nice post. I have the T763 and recently bought the T533 on John A's and my dealer's recomnedations. I have one DVD-A and I could get used to it (though I am not up to replacing my cds like I did vinyl). I agree with you 100%. |
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New member Username: PaulofPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-04 | Just ordered T733 and 753 in a local shop and the dealer told me that the unit he had on stock had been collected by the local representative from NAD to solve the "hiss" problem. As stated by the the dealer this occured when the font is not ON so it's a little bit different from some complaints stated here. Anyway it's a clear sign that NAD recognized the problem and is solving it. Anyway I should have it in a couple of weeks time so i'll post my experience as soon as I have some hours of listening. |
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Elmosaurus Unregistered guest | Thanks, Jonathan. Yes, it looks like John A.'s post has some resounding affects around here. (pun intended. harrr harr) I really should have mentioned also how musical that DVD player is; far above the norm for a DVD player. I look back now and don't think I made that quite clear while talking about it, or it's DAC. It easily holds it's par with some of the best musical CD dedicated audiophile pieces I've had the pleasure of listening to. I wouldn't hesistate to reccommend it as an 'all in one' solution to anyone at all; it's more than adequate for CD audio for ALL but the most DEMANDING audiophile. I feel strange making a reccommendation so general like that, but really, short of spending over $1k on a dedicated CD unit, for sub $1k devices, this fits the bill nicely for both roles. Really, Price for performance; Authentic NAD! E. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi again, Well, last week I have shipped my NAD T773 to the NAD service center at Boston MA. Today, I have confirmed with the center service that my receiver arrived, and they will start and fix it only early next week. And we will see. I trust NAD to do their best and fix it, as overall, they still a good company. Daniel |
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New member Username: WdoganSan Francisco, CA Post Number: 2 Registered: May-04 | Hoping this thread might yield me some advice. I've had an NAD 752 for about a year now (bought it from Saturday Audio), and have been very happy with it, in terms of sound, functionality and reliability, until now. I moved recently, and took great care not to damage the NAD or my speakers during the move (they rode inside the car with me), but now I'm having a problem. I seem to have lost the left surround channel. There's a FAINT signal coming through, but it's next to nothing. Does anyone have any advice before I approach NAD about service? The other 4 channels are working fine, and when I connect the L surround speaker to another channel it works, so the problem is not with the speaker. I've got fairly new Tara Labs cable, so I don't think it's the cable, either. I also tried resetting, unplugging, trying analog and digital sources, and nothing has any effect. I would really prefer not to lose the receiver for 3 weeks to have it serviced, but from reading this thread it seems that may be my only option. Saturday Audio has promised to have a tech call me, but I don't know what he'll be able to do. Please help!!! Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound4bargainPost Number: 12 Registered: Oct-04 | I have a question for all who send NAD for repair. How long is the turn around time and who pays for shipping. It is intresting that in my short ownership of the T753 one of the first things NAD suggests to keep the original packing in case you need to send the unit in for repair. Surprisingly they do not suggest that with the C270 amp. Says something about the T7xx series. For pure musical quality the T753 outperforms anything in the price range and the combo of my RXV1400 and C270 is still not as good and I plan to replace the RXV at some time with a preamp. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Vic, In my case, NAD agree to pay the shippment as I even don't have a serial number on my unit... see above. I shipped the unit before 8 days, and I think it will be back to me in more 3 weeks (1 week from me to NAD service center, 1-2 weeks at the service center, and another 1 week to be back to me from NAD). Not an easy one, to be without a receiver for 4-5 weeks. This is why I started this thread - it is not about the money, it is about the heading and time spending on NAD quality issue. Good luck, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 57 Registered: Feb-04 | Vic; For the record... MOST if not ALL manufacturers suggest that you keep original packaging on the heavier, bulkier items. Hardly conclusive of NAD problems. Besides... if you were buying something - anything - second hand (ebay, audiogon, etc.)... would you not feel much better if the original owner sent it to you properly, the way the manufacturer intended? Hmmm. Daniel... I still feel that your situation IS unacceptable, and that NAD has really dropped the ball on this one. It really is no wonder that so many people are turning away. Hope this is worth it in the end. |
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amon Unregistered guest | JUst an apdate on my reciever... this is the second 753 that I own. I sent the first one back as soon as I got it because of several problems. However, I know own the current unit for 2.5 months- amazing sound, real power, no hiss. It is a beauty. |
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Daniel Bneatar Unregistered guest | Amon, I really glad for you. In spite all what happened to me with my NAD receiver, I still think that if NAD could solve their quality issues, they will be one of the best companies out there for receiver - they have the sound in place. Thanks Brad, I agreed with you, unfortunately, if NAD will not move quickly, they will lose their market share, as ARCAM is moving quickly and they have an hot products in hand for the costumers - I audited the AVR 300 and it is amazing unit, great sound, no hiss issue and based on the local dealer, people today prefer it vs the NAD, which was not true with the AVR200 if you remember -- at that time, people prefer the NAD products (T7x1) - not long time ago... |
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anom Unregistered guest | Dear Daniel I think that the majority of NAD's market share ISN'T surround recievers...NAD still builds amazing hi fi gear for (any) price. I didn't hear many QC issues with amps, preamps etc. I must say that some of their $500 stereo gear is much better than shiny, pretentious $1000 and up systems! In addition, people who buy NAD products (myself included of course) want hi-end quality but lack the money- so they are MUCH more critical then the avarage DENON or YAMAHA buyer- hence the many complaints in ecoustics. For example, before I had the NAD I bought a Yamaha rx-v440 that was OK, but I had to return it due to faulty DSP functioning..isn't THAT a QC issue?? Did I really think of even discussing it with someone? But when you're short on cash and make a significant purchase- you tend to be much more anxious about it! I do think however that the 7x4 series would have to do better. Although, again, my 753 bests anything that's out there for even a higher asking price. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all, Well I was thinking that you will be interesting with this: As I wrote before 3 weeks, I have shipped my T773 receiver to NAD service center and just received it back yesterday. I have shipped the receiver at Nov-11 and received it on the Dec-02 -- not so bad... Well, I also received a description of the work NAD did on my receiver. And it seems that they changed the DSP PCB with 4 wires (though not sure what is this) and upgraded the software as well. I have connected everything to the receiver, and something NAD did to my receiver changed the sound 180 degrees... The sound is much cleaner with more details, and surprised me that there is no hiss noise at all... I have set the receiver to enhance bass to on, and I am very impressed from the sound. I have tested it with DVD (Norah Jones and Saraha Brightman), CD (Pink Floyd -- the final cut), and SACD (Bob Dylan -- slow train in coming), and the music and sound were just as in a live show -- very impressive! I will test it this week end with DVD Movies as well to ensure no hiss or other "by products" effects. Anyway, just wanted to be fair and say and write good words about NAD with this fix (though, I still can't say any good things about their quality and the fact that my receiver doesn't have s serial number...). Happy week end, Daniel |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 157 Registered: Dec-03 | Hey Dan. Hope it holds up. I have asked NAD some questions based upon some of the comments here and they had two reps call me direct to discuss and explain. If all goes well, maybe you can change the title of the thread to "Why not to bury NAD receiver." |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Thanks Jonathan Nice sentence... Can you please elaborate more on your conversion with the 2 NAD reps? I am interesting if NAD found the root cause solutions for their problems? Thanks, Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: PetarstPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-04 | Hey Daniel, Please can you tell me if on your reciver you can setup zone 2 for listening. I think it doesnt work. I try to setup it ,but without success. I think that option doesnt work on NAD recivers ! regards, Petar |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Petar, I am not sure, as I do not have any speakers connected to zone 2. I have tried the remote control and it seems working fine. Sorry I can't help. Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: PetarstPost Number: 14 Registered: Aug-04 | Daniel, Then coonect it they are made a fool of us. You must connect it to b speakers It doesnt work. NAD said that remote should work form another room but it is not try please! |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 160 Registered: Dec-03 | Daniel, I e-mailed NAD because of the comments of Elmosaurous, particularly his comment about there being a spec problem with early models. Since I have a model from last January, I had a concern that the model may be defective. I quoted from Elmosaurous and received a call from a NAD rep. We discussed these issues and this gentlemen is well aware of these discussions on ecoustics. He told me that essentially, there really is no problem but there are strategies (as has been discussed before in ecoustics such as turning off the analog input in every input setting even ones not being used and upgrading to version 2 that could help some). As I have not had the problems that are reported in this thread, I could not discuss those problems having no first hand knowledge. I received a second call about a week later from another NAD representative, but since I had already talked about the problem and this guy didn't really have any more information, it was a short call. I was happy that NAD felt my question deserved personal replies and service and I was satisfied with their answers. I have since, the T763, purchased the DVD-A player: T533 and the integrated Amp: C372 which are both great and well worth the investment. Now I actually have another problem: acoustics. I have the C372 driving my Martin Logan Montages in a medium size bedroom with carpet and the sound is amazing. I put my Martin Logan Mosaic in the home theater set up in a large room with tile and while the Mosaics sound better than the Montages, it doesn't give me the magical sound of the Montages in the carpeted room. How do I get that magical sound in the home theater? Is it the extra power of the integrated amp (150 watts per channel into 8 ohms and the MLs are 5 ohm speakers) or is it the room acoustics? Petar: why don't you e-mail NAD if you are having difficulty figuring it out. I have no experience or understanding of your problem so I can't offer help. |
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Bronze Member Username: PetarstPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-04 | I do, but they don't reply. I dont know why. They tell me to call service help desk. And they don't know and i asking my self WHO KNOWS? |
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Elmosaurus Unregistered guest | Petar, Just to state the obvious, the Zone 2 remote is IR, you need an IR repeater to bring the signal into the room with the Receiver before the unit can understand what Zone 2 commands you want. (FYI, I tested my Zone 2 and it works fine) IE, it's not a radio RF based remote, it requires line of sight or IR retransmission to convey the signal. If you are doing a test RIGHT in front of your unit, and you're SURE you're following the manual, you may have a defective unit. My readings concur with Jonathans statement, there were no major board or specification design changes going from previous revisions to the new 'ver 2' model, it's more of a firmware AND build quality thing. From what I understand (can't recall the source, and cite it, I think it was my dealers rep who off the record admitted it) the T7x3 series was upgraded across the board, and the assembly plant overseas didn't quite understand how to build it. This caused many of the first string of units built to have the rare major operational issue (like the spontaneous shutting off some had) or the more prevelant minor issues like the burnt diode hum (that some had due to a mis-spec'd diode) or the often discussed hiss. (possibly poor solder connections) Version 2 basically included the new firmware, and were the production lots where NAD had made SURE the assembly plant knew what they were doing from that point forward; this difference in build quality is what is solving most of the problems from what I have personally concluded. (this is anecdotal though, I have no sources to cite or such) In the end, I'm happy with the results, as Dan is now seeing; a working Version 2 unit is a blissful joy to sit with, making music into an event rather than a past-time. As for your acoustics problems, Jonathan, furnishings definitely change the character of the playback. Even tweaking tone control a bit sometimes doesn't fix the problem. I'd ask, do you find the music a little too energetic (makes your ears tired) or to use a cliche'd term of late, 'bright'? If so, you need to get more absorbant furnishing surfaces in play; perhaps a larger area rug on the tile, throw rugs under and immediately in front of each of the fronts (you'd be surprised how much the sound changes when you throw a rubber bottomed bathroom floor spot carpet down in front of a main channel speaker) Less ugly and more visually pleasing, tapestries hung on the wall from waist level up to ceiling will change the sonic footprint of the room dramatically. Close all the blinds, or better yet, heavy curtains over ANY windows with large panes of glass. (install curtains now if you don't have them, since you should need them for Home Theater use during twilight hours anyhow) If you have tried all of these, and still can't get the perfect result, then extreme changes like a heavier, plush surface couch or multiple smaller couches in the room could make changes in acoustics. (you know you're an audio purist when you start rearranging and changing furnishing to accommodate the musicality rather than the decorating style of the room!) The bottom line is that most of your issue comes from reflected and refracted highs and mid highs bouncing off the tile and resonating in the room like crazy. You need to compensate for that bounce with a variety of surfaces and physical mass that can absorb some of that extra resonating reflection. E. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 161 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks E. I haven't tried any of these things yet. I can't even explain the quality of problem. The HT sounds good, just not as rich as I know the speakers can sound as is demonstrated by the Montage sounding incredible in a carpeted area with more juice running to it. |
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Bronze Member Username: Monkey_man_jackPost Number: 12 Registered: Dec-04 | Is NAD the highest end system you can get? |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 162 Registered: Dec-03 | Monkey Man: NAD is definitely not the highest end system you can get. We are talking about (when we discuss NAD, Yamaha, Denon, HK, Rotel, Arcam, Pioneer Elite except for some higher end flagship models) mid-fi items which cost in the $1,000 range which some people can afford. You can be talking separates which cost into the 5 or 6 figures which barely anyone can afford except for Slade (if I remember correctly). The appeal of NAD is the claim that the sound is nearly equal to separates at the price of a mid-fi receiver. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 513 Registered: Dec-03 | Petar, I have an answer to your problem. See my posting on your other thread. Daniel, I am very happy that you have finally figured things out and have finally found out what your NAD can really do. Congrats again and I wish you many years of listening enjoyment!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: PetarstPost Number: 17 Registered: Aug-04 | Thx to you all, I have got a reply from NAD ,and they will solve my problem with little hiss. But that hiss is not bodering so much to me like zone 2.Now i know that i must have a amp for zone 2 to be work. Anyway for me NAD is the best (price - performance ratio) I try many receivers before i have bought NAD ,and I must say that NAD will eat them all for breakfast if you need perfect stereo and surround sound. Only Arcam can be a competition or even be better. regards, Petar |
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New member Username: PaulofPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-04 | Elmosaurus, I just bought the same setup as you T533 and T763 but I'm having difficulties in getting the HTR command to control the DVD. The T533 library is not coded in the user guide. I loaded the T532 library but some funtions do not work. How did you manage? |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 527 Registered: Dec-03 | PF, Read in the manual. Whatever functions don't work, you can "teach" the HTR remote the functions of the DVD remote. I really like this feature because it allows you to use the HTR remote for devices not listed in the code manual. Taken directly from page 26 of the NAD T763 Manual. Begin by positioning the HTR 2 "nose-to-nose" with the source remote so the two devices' infrared windows are about 2 inches apart. • Enter Learning Mode: On the HTR 2, simultaneously press-and-hold for 3 seconds both a Device Selector key and the [•] "record" key (just below the [DISP] key), until the Learn LED at the center of the HTR 2 turns steady green. • Press the HTR 2's function key you wish to teach a command; the Learn LED will turn amber. • Press-and-hold the function key on the source remote: The HTR 2's Learn LED will flicker amber for a second or two, then turn solid green. The command is learned. • Press the HTR 2's Device Selector key again to exit the learning mode. If the Learn LED does not flicker amber you may need to vary the distance between the remotes. If the Learn LED turns red rather than green, that particular command of that source remote command could not be learned. Cancel Operation: You can cancel configuring a key, by pressing the active Device Selector key before the learn is complete; the Learn LED will turn red. Example: Learning "DVD Pause": Position the HTR 2 and your DVD player's remote as described above. • On the HTR 2, simultaneously press-and-hold [DVD] and [•]; the Learn LED turns steady green. • Press the HTR 2's [ || ] (pause) key; the Learn LED turns amber. • Press-and-hold the DVD player's remote's pause key; the HTR 2's Learn LED flickers amber and then turns solid green. The command is learned. • Press [DVD] again to exit the learning mode. |
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Elmosaurus Unregistered guest | ^ what he said. :D (you'll begin to really appreciate the HTR once you start plugging the new commands in; even on other devices. The straightforward, fast programming of any function puts a smile on any 'complete universal remote' owners face) E. |
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Silver Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 136 Registered: Dec-03 | The default DVD settings for the HTR 2 control the 533 DVD. (The default CD settings for the HTR 2 also control NAD CD players.) I would reset your remote control and try to use it again. |
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New member Username: PaulofPost Number: 4 Registered: Nov-04 | Johnny, Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. I indeed read the UG, I was only wondering if there was a specific code for the T533 not listed in the UG. Darryl, Funny enough my HTR 2 "out of the box" did not have the default settings, I'll try the factory reset. |
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New member Username: PaulofPost Number: 6 Registered: Nov-04 | Anyone notices a ~12dB difference when switching from Ext 7.1 to Digital on pure stereo? My Ext7.1 plays a lot louder than if I use the coax DVD input and seems much better sounding. Even on DTS movies switching to Ext7.1 and letting the DVD DACs do all the job sounds to me louder and better, which doesn't make much sense to me since both are from same brand and same "price" level but anyway it's my first decent setup... |
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New member Username: PaulofPost Number: 8 Registered: Nov-04 | Sorry, I meant Dolby Digital and not DTS, the T533 is not passing DTS through the 5.1 analogue connections. |
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LuckyD Unregistered guest | hi all! Im possible buyer of NAD T743, can u tell me how will i know if its V2, are serial numbers diferent or something. THX |
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New member Username: PaulofPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-04 | LuckyD, It's quite easy, on my T763 I press Video and Audio keys at the same time for some seconds, when I release the keys the version shows up on the screen. On the box I have heard about a green sticker and some letters saying V2. Unfortunately mine was not V2 although I waited 1 monthe to get one but the sales rep assumed the mistake and is swapping it tommorrow maybe then I'll be able to tell you what's on the box. |
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Bronze Member Username: Paul_tPost Number: 67 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry to hear you've had problems with your NAD receiver.. My experiance with my NAD T752 has been quite the opposite. It's been flawless for the year and half I've had it and I am very critical when it comes to my listening pleasure. The combination of the NAD with Pardigm Studio 20v3's is the smoothest system I've ever heard,,, Never gets tedicous as others I've heard or owned.. Dan sorry to say must it sounds like you just got a bad one, always a few in the bunch no matter which brand.. |
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New member Username: Frank_lPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-04 | I want to share my first imperssions with the T773 which I received yesterday and set up i na haste ;o)) .. wow ... pretty awesome! I use B&W DM-604S3 for front, CC6 center and DM-602 rears. Source is a Marantz 4000 CD player. The sole reason for the receiver upgrade was that my 'old' tried and trusted Yamha HTR5250 was shutting down on over current when listening to music past 11 o'clock.. So after powering up the unit I was wondering about hum and hiss having read a lot of complaints on this forum - well - I found no hum and the hiss is not worse then my Yammi or my pet MOS-FET amp I built a few years back. In terms of sound quality (using the T773's DAC) very good resolution, accurate and fast. Plenty guts ... got the furniture and X-mas decor vibrating quite badly - actually the 6x9m living room is a tad on the small size for this rig ... watch this space ... ;o |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2675 Registered: Dec-03 | PF, the T533 is not passing DTS through the 5.1 analogue connections. No, it does not have DTS processing. From reading the box and the manual, I suspect it was a last-minute decision not to include it. It is still an outstanding player, in my opinion. There is a known issue with some units not having the latest DVD-A copy protection keys: I have just had mine upgraded. As usual, the distributor and NAD get full marks for attention to this customer, and the dealer nine out of ten. NAD sent my dealer the upgrade CD by express mail. See the thread I started NAD T533 DVD/CD player user's review, and DVD-Audio. On the archived part of that thread there are some pics of the inside, if you are interested. |
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Bronze Member Username: PaulofPortugal Post Number: 14 Registered: Nov-04 | Today I got my T763 swapped for version 2.03 with the yellow sticker and the noise problem remains. The dealer was really surprised when he listened to it, quite loud at -74dB but NAD's local representative assured him that they will give me support on that. |
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Bronze Member Username: IndianspringsazPost Number: 13 Registered: Dec-04 | I am starting to think that most of the problem is the power comming out of the wall. I got a Monster HTS 3600 for Christmas. There is no longer ANY noise AT ALL. Even with my ear on the speakers. I am a believer of line conditioners now. You guys with noise problems, Check it out. |
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Bronze Member Username: Monkey_man_jackPost Number: 52 Registered: Dec-04 | I have a question, what is the highest end reciever you can get and what is the cost? |
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Bronze Member Username: IndianspringsazPost Number: 18 Registered: Dec-04 | Monkey Man Jack, Why dont you start a new thread with that question. There is what? 100+ posts here that are of a different subject. Just thinking you would get some more answers. All so try to be more specific with you question. |
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Bronze Member Username: Monkey_man_jackPost Number: 61 Registered: Dec-04 | good idea. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckcrazyPost Number: 71 Registered: Nov-04 | ok the problem with Nad units is that they give out hiss hum at idle position. when there is no signal and you tweek volume on the high side. once you start playing music / movies you can not detect the hiss /hum So that explains why most people buy tham b'cause once you listen they rock, later about a week down the road you tend to notice this flaw while changing cd or dvd then u think crap i bought 1500-2000 unit that is flawed then a cycle of hatred starts to develop.IMHO the fault lies with the torodial power supply and high quality components and lack of digital filter unlike the japanese units as digital filter just kills all the signal in that particluar signature range.The Cure is simple you spend another 400-1000 for a line conditioner that has digital filter to filter power problems then these units actually perform flawless.even in the showrooms where they demo these pieces thier power is conditioned room is acoustically treated so we do not get the same performance you have a power to change all that with a good line conditioner but then it already burns the hole in the pocket and make expensive setup cost more. now bottom line is whenever you decide to drop in dough and get these puppies do not forget the line conditioners . i am happy that i got over this and now can enjoy my movies\music. |
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New member Username: MofobaruPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-05 | I purchased my T773 a few weeks ago. It's driving a basic stereo pair of B&W CM4 speakers. I can't talk about the unfortunate QC problems some are having with their NAD receivers. I not had any issues, such as hiss or hum as found by others. The external build quality of the unit is excellent, IMO. The T773 sounds fantastic, quite addictive. I listen to mostly music CDs and occasional DVD movies in stereo mode. The SQ is very open. It renders a nice deep sound-stage with great instrument separation. At louder levels music is always composed and well defined with lots of headroom. It sounds great at all volume levels with my Rock, Jazz and Classical audio CDs. I've previously owned receivers from Rotel, Yamaha and Denon. I can definitely recommend the NAD T773. |
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Anonymous | my NAD's are working just fine... just ask my girlfriend. hehe |
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Bronze Member Username: SteelydanPost Number: 13 Registered: Dec-04 | by the way, you've got some pretty nice looking NAD's also... wow.. nice NAD's!! |
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Silver Member Username: Monkey_man_jackPost Number: 178 Registered: Dec-04 | Yamaha is better, have you seen their new one, it's the best! |
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anony Unregistered guest | what is u r problem maybe the name that made u jump here shush .................. |
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Silver Member Username: Monkey_man_jackPost Number: 179 Registered: Dec-04 | You wanna take this outside punk? |
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Bronze Member Username: MitchbdPost Number: 67 Registered: Feb-04 | So much for a mature, informative posting forum! |
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