Archive through October 04, 2004
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 399 Registered: Apr-04 | MR wrote: Well, if I have to buy another player I think I'll just chuck it all in, forget about music, sell the house, quit everything, and go kangaroo shooting! Oh darn it, that's right - they don't let us have guns anymore. All right, I'll take up smoking again. Or, you could "Simplify" pickup a Mac, a turntable, use your existing CD player and enjoy 2 channel. :-) |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 503 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, I vote we start with all the liberal socialist attorneys for the ACLU. I'm sure to get Jan's attention on that one................... |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 504 Registered: Dec-03 | Than you Ghia! Finally a voice for sanity and tranquility..........simplify....simplify....must keep repeating it....... |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 292 Registered: Feb-04 | Ghia, Got a chuckle from your post. How about this: One could simplify by chucking all one's stereo equipment and listening only to live music or making one's own music. Now that's really old school. BTW I picked up Tift Merritt's Tambourine, which turns out to be really good. Thanks for the tip. I walked into Borders with the idea of buying the cd, realized that they were playing it in the store. Next day, I open up the New Yorker and there's a blurb on Tambourine. She and Jolie Holland seem to be popping up in unexpected places. You might be interested in a New Yorker profile on Gillian Welch in the current issue. John A., Thanks for the recommendation of the Rattle/BPO DVD-V of Mahler's 5th. I will certainly look for it. It seems like a winning combination--Mahler, Rattle, the BPO at the Philharmonic. The other day I was listening to another great British conductor leading the BPO in Mahler (Barbirolli's 9th on EMI from 1964). M.R. Now I'm curious to hear what a kangaroo scream sounds like. In surround sound. But not on SACD, because I don't want to be a Sony/Philips stooge. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2169 Registered: Dec-03 | Two Cents, It is two discs: a DVD-V and a DVD-A. In a DVD-V-sized box. Total cost £9.99 from HMV shop. Barbirolli must have been a guest conductor. it is incredible to me that Rattle is now the BPO principal conductor. The first foreigner ever, I think, and about as radical a departure from the old school as you could imagine. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 293 Registered: Feb-04 | John A., The Rattle disc is US$23.00 at Amazon, which isn't as great a bargain as the HMV price, but still reasonable. I shall order it. It's not surprising to me that Rattle is the BPO principal conductor. In fact, the BPO is fortunate to have him. IMO there's a dearth of great living conductors, let alone German ones. Rattle is certainly one of the great ones. I agree that he isn't old school, thank god. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1560 Registered: Dec-03 | picked up a mono amp yesterday for my center channel, getting closer to 7.1 tube system! lol jan: no real brand name on the unit "bud radio inc" inked on the inside of steel case. acrosound 300 output transformer. (2) 12ax7's (2) 6sn7's (2)5881's (1) el34 recifier. mono integrated amp with phono input. fairly clean,changed all tubes "had them" and the unit fired up. it ran for about 15 minutes or so until one of the can caps let go. unplgged it emediatly, i was only about 6 inches away when i heard it going. not bad though for $20 , just needs a little tender care. can't find much info on the amp itself but the transformers are well documented. seems dynaco split from acrosound to form dynaco with hafler. the way i figure it about 20-25 watts. plenty for a 98db klipsch center channel. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 719 Registered: Aug-04 | Ghia "Or, you could "Simplify" pickup a Mac, a turntable, use your existing CD player and enjoy 2 channel." Good try - but hi-rez surround has got me in it's spell. But I still enjoy that ordinary 2 channel stereo at times - even if without ancient last century equipment :-) Two Cents, "But not on SACD, because I don't want to be a Sony/Philips stooge." Not another one! You and John have the same disease. Treatment is available guys - the only thing you have to fear is fear itself - not Sony/Philips. There is no conspiracy - only indecision :-) Rick - LOL! Kegger, The countdown begins . . . neighbours beware! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 505 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Ancient last century equipment? I've been shot through the heart. LOL! I think some of us have found that, if you simplify, with the right vintage gear, you don't need all those channels and hi-rez to get the music right. Ok, I pulled the pin, and set off the blast-bring on the counter attack. LOL! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | First things first! "I vote we start with all the liberal socialist attorneys for the ACLU. I'm sure to get Jan's attention on that one..................." OK, my first response was ..... Wh ... wh ... WH ... Snagglefrashans .... but ... Snigglebashans ... CatIshmailStevans ... wait, wait I got it ..... If you did that, who would defend that druggie Rush Limbaugh? Better we shoot all the tax lawyers that reduce his income tax rate to about 15%. Now that's a start!!! John - Did the second link work for you? There is nothing worse than the sound of a kangaroo screaming - sounds human." DID NOT NEED TO KNOW THAT! "Or, you could "Simplify" pickup a Mac, a turntable, use your existing CD player and enjoy 2 channel." Good idea, that CD player would keep the resonance of the table's dustcover to a minimum of you sat it on there just so. "How about this: One could simplify by chucking all one's stereo equipment and listening only to live music or making one's own music." Or to the voices in our heads ... Kegger - I know Acrosound but have never heard of "bud, inc", maybe it was named after the libation Mr. Hafler was having when he designed it. Anything that plays for $20 is a good deal. "even if without ancient last century equipment" ... And what fuel are you using in your car? Th,Th,Th, ... That's all, Folks! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 721 Registered: Aug-04 | Oooh dat wascally wabbit . . . "I think some of us have found that, if you simplify, with the right vintage gear, you don't need all those channels and hi-rez to get the music right." Rick, what you mean is: "I think some of us have found that, if we simplify, with the right vintage gear, we don't need all those channels and hi-rez to get the music right." with the emphasis on the word "some" Oh I finally get it: you guys are Amish :-) |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.leedselect.com/images-advertisments/rca_ad_june1931.jpeg |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 506 Registered: Dec-03 | Last Things Above! Too bad about Mr. Stevens..........I think he was part of the human race once. Every political party has it's embarrassments. We have Rush, you have Reverend Al. Let's call it a draw and move on. I'll vote YES on the tax attorneys............. On the subject ok kangaroos............I DIDN"T NEED TO KNOW THAT EITHER. (does it sound anything like the screaming of a lamb Clarise)? The cd player as a resonance control...............very funny Jan, Very funny! As far as chucking all the equipment, and making our own music...........................You obviously never heard me sing. Oh, you think we're Amish...............I don't know, I'll have to ask Jan if they have NUNS! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 723 Registered: Aug-04 | Okay, lap it up old dogs . . . Kegger - when 7.1 channels is not enough . . . see:http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=13855778 |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Kegger, if you haven't found it yet ( depending on what "it" is): http://www.worldtubeaudio.com/ |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | For anyone who has never run acroos Harvey Rosenberg: http://www.meta-gizmo.com/ and from that site, just because: http://www.meta-gizmo.com/Tri/RRM/KILL.html |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "Every political party has it's embarrassments. We have Rush, you have Reverend Al. Let's call it a draw and move on." It's a draw, but I'd rather have the drugs Rev. Al is on, at least he cracks a good joke. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Sorry, I got all caught up in my great retort to Rick and Rev Al. "Oh, you think we're Amish...............I don't know, I'll have to ask Jan if they have NUNS!" Of course they don't. The Amish don't believe in anything that uses power! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | From The Gizmo pages that you might overlook: To fulfill my tribal responsibility to our young, brave and beaudacious, I shall reveal one more of my cunning audio hunting tricks. HOT GLUE, LIKE YOU As a cunning young hunter I recognized that my mother, who was an artist, had a valuable skill ...she was into the hot glue gun in very creative ways. I don't think there was anything that she didn't try to stick together in her search for a new objet d'art. For a professional gizmologist, work with audio gizmos would be impossible without the hot glue gun. The tube savant must master two different weapons...the hot soldering iron, the hot glue gun...and it is the responsibility of every father to teach their son how to use these tools. TUBE CREATION OF CEREMONIAL TRIBAL GARB: This is the secret substance for creating Tube Crowns, and attaching tubes to your clothes, hats, furniture. To impress your fellow workers hot glue a tube to a tie. If you are single and hanging out at bars, hot glue a tube to each of your collar points...and check out what happens. VINYLMANIACS MANNA: Nothing is better for attaching your phono cartridge to your headshell in terms of 100 percent mechanical connection. Make sure the glue is super hot so you only have to use a very ULTRA thin layer. Press the cartridge body to the tonearm with great force. Hot glue is also one of the best tuning materials for the Decca cartridge. Any moving magnet cartridge that has a removal stylus...use a tiny glob of hot glue to the side of cartridge body where the removable style makes contact with the magnet structure. What is so cool about hot glue is you can easily pop it free. Use hot glue on your tone arm as dampening...try bands and spots. A few tiny dabs will keep your record mat in place. Why is hot glue such a great dampening device? Drop a stick and see how dead it is, and it perfectly bonds to the surface it is applied to. SPEAKERMANICS. Use for attaching felt to your speaker faces. Use for building your external passive crossovers. Hot glue on film capacitors can make them sound better. Use to attach better dampening material to the inside of your speaker cabinets. LINE STAGES/PHONO SECTIONS: If you are going to retro-fit grid chokes, or plate chokes, or capacitors, hot glue can be sued to them in place either on the chassis or PC board. DIY PROJECTS: Key your soldering iron and your hot glue gun hot, because you can use that hot and sticky stuff to keep wires, parts and connections in their places. I use to keep heavy parts, like plate chokes, the interstage transformers in place while I am building my prototypes. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 726 Registered: Aug-04 | I have always lived by the Eschatological Laundry List. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 507 Registered: Dec-03 | OK all you dogs..........here's a new trick! For some time now, Pierre from Mapleshade Records has been telling me to get my Spendors off the metal sand filled stands, and on the floor using a one inch block of wood under the front of the speaker for time align purposes. If tou utilize one of their brass iso cone points better still. Well I tried this today and all is can say is................WOW, what a difference. I am fimiliar with the "Allison" effect caused by high mounted woofers, but this is just amazing. This position makes a small speaker sound hugh. At first I thought I had put the Velodyne back into the chain. The sudden bass power was astounding. The sounstage widened dramatically. Percussion and vocals just lit up. I urge anyone with bookshelf speakers to give this a try and report back to me and tell me what you think. Is this guy on to something ? Any opinion on this Jan? This is no subtle difference here. |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 146 Registered: Jun-04 | Rick, what is this "Allison effect"? Thanks in advance AL |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 727 Registered: Aug-04 | Arnold, Try http://www.allisonacoustics.com |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 728 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, Does the flooring material make a difference with your 'new trick' - bare wood, tiles, carpet etc. I have noticed some floorstanding speakers on short stands that tilt them back slightly (my brother has a pair of Kriks like this). I wonder if this is why? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 508 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, I did my testing on natural hardwood floors. Mapleshade says if used on carpeting to put a maple slab 2" to 4" thick under the speaker. Use carpet piercing conepoints to drain internal vibes. Yes, your brother is using time-aligned stands. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 731 Registered: Aug-04 | Speaking of Pierre: Pierre, after taking his fiancee for a ride in his new Citroen, decided to park as he wanted to make love to her. She said, "Non, non Pierre. Eet iz too publique here!" Pierre replied, "Ah mon sweet Cherie, zis is ze new Citroen with ze pump-up suspension. We can make ze love under ze automobile." So Pierre and his fiancee climbed under the car, threw their clothes off and immediately began to make passionate love. A few minutes later, Inspector Clousseu arrives on the scene and spots Pierre's strange behaviour. Clousseu, looking around says: "Ah, Pierre iz zat your new red Citroen?" Pierre, taken aback by the sudden intrusion, replied, "Inspector, oui, indeed it iz," Clousseu: "Pierre, can you tell me what eet iz that you are doing with ze girl down there?" Pierre, thinking quickly responded, "Ah Inspector, I am showing mon cherie the Citroen's new big shiny drive shaft." Clousseu, with a grin, says, " Ah Pierre, I suggest you be more careful next time. You should not play with ze drive shaft. It must be why ze Citroen has rolled down ze hill." |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 509 Registered: Dec-03 | Tres Bien! LOL |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2171 Registered: Dec-03 | MR, Pure pleasure. But what is the ELL (Eschatological Laundry List)? Perhaps you have been waiting for this question, or perhaps I have missed something. Again. Jan, John - Did the second link work for you? Yes, thank you. Brilliant. I wrote several very heavy things in reply, but decided not to post them. "No change there, then" seemed a bit flip. Another time, another thread. The connection with the topic in hand eluded me, even though I can usually find a link between multi-channel vs stereo and virtually anything. The Brecht-Weill team was world class, no question. If that was the link to which you refer! I cannot keep up with this roller-coaster of a thread. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 732 Registered: Aug-04 | John A "But what is the ELL" Lower link posted bt Mr Vigne, September 29, 2004 - 07:26 pm: |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2175 Registered: Dec-03 | MR, Thanks. I see. The only missing item is • Never trust aphorisms, especially when presented in lists. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2176 Registered: Dec-03 | Also missing: • Always run a spell-checker. You will be surprised what it can find. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1562 Registered: Dec-03 | rantz: loved the link. "Kegger - when 7.1 channels is not enough . . . " oooooohhhhh 12 channels i'm salavating. jan: saw the flying post liked it. and yes i have mastered both guns. "glue and solder" wonderous tools! ................................... tilting a speaker backwards is to try an line up each drivers center position in realtion to the distance from listener. meaning that normally a woofers center position is farther inside the cabinet then a tweeter so by tilting the speaker backwards you move the tweeter backwards to the same distance from listening position as the woofer. that is why you will see some spaekers have a tilted face plate. like the spica's that jan and i have discussed. ...................................... rants let the rest have their 2 channel "oh yah we have that too" we will enjoy both are 2 channel and multi in the same setup. and enjoy both equally! peace out! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2177 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, Arnold (see above) mentions building speakers on What does "DVD-audio" mean here? and I don't think you've posted on that thread, so may not know. Personally I am sceptical about "supertweeters". I know I can't hear above 14 kHz. Our children can hear a bit beyond 16 kHz. To me, 20 kHz seems like plenty of high-frequency headroom, for anyone. I think the pleasure from hi-res formats comes from the detail and resolution, not from suddenly hearing ultra-sound. Having said that, I have never heard a speaker with a supertweeter. My old KEF Corellis go to 40 kHz (they come from analogue days) and they sound wonderful, but I don't think that is the reason. Any views? Thought I'd put that here, Arnold. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | John - Here are two people who helped put me on the far left bottom of the Political Compass. Piscator and Meyerhold. Brecht was a egoist as much as those he protested against. But he was on the side of the common man no matter what his ego wanted to accomplish. Most of his ideas of theatre and dramaturgy were taken from Erwin Piscator, with whom he had worked in Germany before the exodus of artists to America and before he worked with Weill. Piscator was more of a laborer in the trenchs of agitprop theatre, where he presented the ideals of Marxism that appealled to him. (Marxism as a "common man" ideal as it was first persented.) Brecht, as a playwright, garnered more attention from the press but both men caught the attention of Hitler. Probably if Brecht had not teamed with Lotte Lenya and Weill he would not be as well known as he is today. (Though "Mother Courage" deserves a read every now and again.) Brecht came to America and restaged many of the plays that drew attention to his form of Theatre in Germany. Piscator moved on in the States and made many of Shakespeare's plays into pieces of Political Mass Spectacle. One of my professors in undergrad (Doctor Kluth) counted as one of his glowing moments in Theatre when he was a spear carrier in a Piscator production. Piscator: http://www.citycol.com/perfdesn/Piscator.htm "Aims: Piscator as a revolutionary Marxist was aiming to created a new form of theatre. A theatre which is part of the social struggle: "The business of revolutionary theatre is to take reality as its point of departure and to magnify the social discrepancy, making it an element of our indictment, our revolt, our new order." The Political Theatre p187. The social struggle culminates in the rising up of the working class (proletariat) to take power from the ruling class, as had happened in Russia in 1917. In Russia, particularly in the work of Meyerhold, a theatre had been created which reflected the revolutionary ideology. This took two forms: Agitprop - short for agitation-propaganda. This is a form of political cabaret in which short sketches and songs are put together with the sole purpose of inciting a (mainly partisan audience) to political action. It is essentially a mobile form which needs to be set up anywhere its audience is so it depends on a minimum of scenery and props. Mass Spectacles - public celebrations in the form of vast pageants of revolution involving casts of thousands. These were mainly staged in Leningrad, culminating in Meyerhold's re-enactment of the storming of the winter palace (the turning point of the Bolshevik revolution) on its third anniversary in 1920. This was almost like the staging of a medieval mystery play with stations either side of the palace: "Events leading up to the fighting were depicted on two stepped platforms either side of the square - with the White leaders portrayed as caricatures by professional actors in contrast to the unified group of Reds - and the confrontation between the forces of good and evil took place in the palace between. Silhouettes of hand-to-hand combat filled all the lighted windows behind white blinds, spilled out over the square. Searchlights swept over the masses figures (2,865 performers were required for the White platform alone, and three to four times that number for the revolutionaries, with red army infantry and motorised units taking part) the gunfire came from warships moored in the river." Meyerhold: http://max.mmlc.northwestern.edu/~mdenner/Drama/directors/1meyerhold.html "By the mid-1930s, Meyerhold's relentless experimentation was no longer in favor. His theater was harshly criticized and then closed in 1938. Meyerhold himself was arrested in 1939 and shot in prison in 1940." Shostakovich had a familiarity with Meyerhold, and, of course, the fate of those artists who dared Stalin to dislike them. And listening to Shostakovich's various portrayals of the proletariat uprisings we know how succesful many of those were. But putting Shostakovich in the context of Meyerhold was one of my interests in my youth. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | This is from a link on a post under "Phono" put on by the administrator. Read the first two paragraphs of the ad copy: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R06/R0627-72dpi.jpeg How much of a monthly paycheck was $550 when this ad ran? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R05/R0584-72dpi.jpeg |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2181 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, No time right now but will read and report back. Many thanks. I recall there is now a Brecht "museum" in the house he staged plays in, in former E. Berlin. It is now an old-fashioned German restaurant, too. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Kegger - Goodbye to triodes: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R02/R0240-72dpi.jpeg |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | An early surge protector: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R03/R0374-72dpi.jpeg |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R01/R0141-72dpi.jpeg |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R10/R1063-72dpi.jpeg |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1563 Registered: Dec-03 | jan are you pulling these ads from the wallpapaer on your bathroom wall? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1564 Registered: Dec-03 | or are these clips from the latest mags you've read? lol kidding of'course. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Once you've read one you've read them all for the next 75 years. The ad copy is great stuff. Here's an early HK just before they brought out the first "all in one" reciever. According to the ad copy, owning an HK was better than listening to live music with all those annoying hall resonances: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/adaccess/radio/1950-1956/@Generic__BookTextView/3405 There's terrific stuff in there, particularly when you get to the ads from the 50's. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Check out some of the other articles here: http://www.tubeaudio.com/page11.html |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rick - As to the Mapleshade tweak - I have seen the idea in the Mapleshade catalog for a while now and, of course, was interested in anything that simple. I remember when I was selling Double Advent systems, speaker stands were just starting to become a tweak item. The first speaker stands we sold for the Advents were simple wooden blocks that tilted the Advent back a few degrees and placed its front edge about 3-4" off the floor. It made a very noticeable difference in that set up. But the "Allison effect" seems to be a bit of a misnomer, particularly in this application. What Roy Allison used as a theory was more a specified location for the woofer in relation to the reflective room boundaries. His speakers placed the woofer at the intersection of three room boundaries to gain as much bass boost from the room as possible and that allowed him to design for a given space his woofers worked into. This wasn't exactly new in the world of speaker design. Using that natural bass boost meant he didn't have to push his drivers as hard for the amount of sound he achieved. Certainly the most famous proponent of placing the woofer in the corner at a specified height from the floor is Paul Klipsch with his Cornerhorns which were designed in the mid 40's. JBL and ALTEC used the concept in their floor standing speakers of the 50's and 60's. Here's an ad for the Patrician, look at the shape of the enclosure and where the speaker is placed in the illustration at the top left corner: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R04/R0432-72dpi.jpeg I still have a pair of the original Boston Acoustics A200's from 1977 in a closet and they used a similar idea that was combined with the older concept of infinite baffle as utilized in the 40's and 50's. The woofer is, like the Allison's, placed at the very bottom of the cabinet to define the space the driver worked into. I have tried my speakers, several different bookshelves that I have, on a system similar to what Mapleshade describes though instead of maple I have tried oak and marble for the bases with ordinary TipToes under them. I have rather mixed felings about the set up because I have had mixed results. For one thing I think your Spendors go deeper in the bass than anything I own. But the bass extension wasn't really an issue for me. After living with the LS3/5a's and the Spicas for years I haven't got a need for more bass from my speakers. And the placement on the floor creates a 1/2 pi space for the speaker to work into so there will be a 3dB boost to the bass. (What the "Allison Effect" describes is a 9 dB boost from the 1/8 pi space.) Now the bass is tighter than many other placements because, as Mr. Allison describes, the wavefront of the woofer is not having a cancellation from a reflected surface. (This same idea is used on the other end of the recording chain with the PZM miocrophones that use the boundary of the floor for reinforcement and the phase coherence of the signal to get excellent results from a mid priced mic.) So I've gained a bit more bass and it has stayed tight with no bloat. That should qualify as an improvement in anyone's book of tricks. My problems come in relation to the soundstage the speakers create when they are in such a low position. 90% of the time I can find the soundstage quite acceptable and at least the equal to what I have with speakers on stands. Depth is good and localization is good. I have had a problem, though, on some recordings where the image/soundstage height is moved down towards the floor when the speakers sit low. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does it really catches my attention. I seem to get not a better, but a more consistent soundstage with my speakers on stands. The other thing that sometimes bothers me about the floor position is the "floating" quality to voices. I can tell they are centrally located (or wherever the exist in the stage) but instead of being locked into a very small space that sounds like a voice they seem disconnected from any space. They are "there" but not right "there". And this happens in the course of a song. One of my problems could be the slight rise in the midbass that affects male vocals on the LS3/5a's. It is notorious for what it does right and what it does wrong. That appears to be designed out of the new Spendors. This placement is certainly convenient and has, at this point, just those two downsides. Once I get this back room set up I'm going to try this placement again because I haven't really worked with it enough to decide if it will work for my system. I think listener height might also affect the sound I get and I may need a different chair for this set up. I like it enough to give it a try because of the benefits I hear but I just don't know if it will work out for me. I would sugest anyone who is interested try this placement to hear what benefits you have from a very simple idea. For the time it takes, you may find, like Rick did, that there is a great new sound from your system waiting to be heard. I'd like to hear some more feeback on this from others. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 511 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Thank you for the input and the "Allison Effect" clarification. My Spendors only go down to 70Hz before rolloff. I would have thought the LS3/5a's would go deeper. Mapleshade also thinks most small speakers sit on stands that are too high (24" and up). I wonder if something in between the floor and 36" (including height of the speaker) would be more ideal? Say putting the 12" tall S3/5 on a 18" or 20" stand. I would think you would get more bass weight as you get closer to the floor. I'm going to experiment some more. PS If you have never heard a Mapleshade recording.........some of the best stuff on the planet. Use their Golden Helix speaker wire also. Better than anything I have ever heard at any price! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | I agree on the qaulity of Mapleshade recordings. Just got done watching the first debate between Kerry and Bush. All I can say is : YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AA!!! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 744 Registered: Aug-04 | I disagree entirely, this is what I thought: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! And I'm sure I'm in the majority. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1565 Registered: Dec-03 | screw you guy's i'm listening truly old school!  mono baby!!!!!!! yyyyyaaaaaahhhhhh!!!! now that's the shizznet!!! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1566 Registered: Dec-03 | that just goes to show yu i had my cake and i ate it too. uuuuuhhhmmmmmmm!!!! that was ggoooooodddd!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1567 Registered: Dec-03 | In case anyone is intersted here's a couple more pic's of the new/ old school amp.   yes it's mono i just got left and right rca's plugged in so i can switch between inputs from the the front of the amp. jan: it's pretty interesting i replaced tha can cap with one from one of the preamps i got from you and it works great. Tell yu what i don't know if it's the combonation of tubes (12ax7,6sn7,5881 and gz32 rectifier) all sprague caps (black plastic) or the iron on this thing but it sounds excelent the highs aren't even rolled off. and it's super quiet through the speakers. no noise at all. here's the speaker i got connected. http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=659§ion=specs pretty darn efficient half way on the volume is quite loud!! sorry if i sound to giddy on this thing but i find it way to cool. now if i can just find another one! lol! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 745 Registered: Aug-04 | Kegger, If it sounds as good as it looks - you're laughin' And thanks for sharing the cake :-( |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1568 Registered: Dec-03 | agreed rantz for $20 i got a pretty big smile! if it helds at all i ate an extra piece just for you buddy! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1569 Registered: Dec-03 | uuuuuhhhh!! "HELPS" GEEEZZZ!! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 516 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, Thanks for explaining the fork and plate. I first thought it was some kind of weird tweak. LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 517 Registered: Dec-03 | On the debate, all I can say is.............................................................................. ........................................................HUH? "W" looked like a deer in the headlights, and Kerry is still trying to figure out his position. So what really changed? The real shame is that we really have to vote for ONE of them............................................................................ .I would rather get the............RULER! |
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SACDude Unregistered guest | I would have watched the debates, except that we just got back from several days in upper Wisconsin, to find our apartment had been burglarized, and most of our good stuff stolen. I'm writing this on a borrowed computer. Sometime Tuesday - during the day, according to police - some people in Moving Company clothes came into the building and ransacked three apartments - all on our 3rd floor. They broke in through our balcony door. How they got there, nobody is sure. They stole the B & W speakers, but not the amp or DVD player. Maybe too many wires? They stole the computers, and all of the DVD discs - but not the CDs. Guess they didn't like classical? They tried to steal the 27-inch TV, but apparently dropped it, and it was smashed, on the floor. Then they took the two silk Oriental rugs down from the walls. They took the small paintings. Police are investigating - but my lady-in-residence says enough is enough. She is down with her cousin in Sarasota, Florida, and says she's not coming back to Chicago. Well, when it rains, it pours. Thank you for reading - I doubt that I shall have much more to say on this forum for a long time. Best wishes to all of us, please! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Pssssssst, Kegger, "truly old school" doesn't include a CD player. I don't think you should try to find another amp but, instead, explore "truly old school" and start finding the treasures that are out there that were created before 45 Degree tracking was done on records, i.e. MONO. Not a lot of hard rock on the list but there were at least 7-8 years between "Hound Dog" and the last mono record. And the blues and swing that is avialable is another world to explore in its self. I see you as posting a pic of your EV Patrician with a Rek-O-Kut table and mono tubes, Mr. Kegger. Rantz - 10/01, 12:11 AM - I trying to make the best of a "debate" where the two participants know the questions in advance, cannot ask each other questions, can't look at one another, the audience is there as a prop and told to remain completely silent and 70% of the time is spent on one area of foreign policy. It is the best our great Democracy can manage. It would have been better if one of the two could go over and whop the other one on the ears and tell him he was a stupid *%7##!!!!@88%%%!!!!!!!. But instead we found out we may have insulted Poland. Rick - 'Tis a pity? Probably. The poeple that could best lead us most often don't want the job anymore. And the people that are "leading" us don't want anyone else to want the job. But the ........ RULER? I refer you to my post of 09/30 : "By the mid-1930s, Meyerhold's relentless experimentation was no longer in favor. His theater was harshly criticized and then closed in 1938. Meyerhold himself was arrested in 1939 and shot in prison in 1940." Though the debate could have been better with real questions I think we're better off now that politicians don't challenge each other to a duel. (But my comment on whopping one another stands.) Kegger - The amp looks interesting. What tubes are you using, ones that came in it or ones you had? What Brand? What do the controls on the front do? Where did you find it? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=17799 |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 748 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan, We are two weeks from the "big" election here in Aus. The two main contenders have had their so called debate also. I think the same person wrote the rulebook for both countries. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1573 Registered: Dec-03 | SACDude that is truly tragic of your situation! I feel for yu. I bet those rugs were a treasured expensive piece of furniture too. truly a shame. sorry that had to happen! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 750 Registered: Aug-04 | Yes, SACDude, I second Keggers words. Hope everything works out for you. Come back when you can. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1574 Registered: Dec-03 | jan: "Kegger - The amp looks interesting. What tubes are you using, ones that came in it or ones you had? What Brand? What do the controls on the front do? Where did you find it? " _______________________________________________ Im running tubes I had, all fairly new except the recifier I took from one of the st-70's. the rest of the tubes are all sovtek. knobs right to left. on off treble bass volume input: (1( (2) (phono) don't know: maybe phono stuff dont know: same as above a local electronics store went out of buisness so a couple guys that use to work as techs there bought out the rest of the stock and run the buiseness from there home. I called to see if they may have any older oil caps when the gentelmen informed me he had just got some and had an old tube amp from the same source. so I went over their bought the caps then the amp for $20 |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2186 Registered: Dec-03 | I second Kegger, too. SACDude, that is really bad. Just post back when you can. Take care. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 520 Registered: Dec-03 | SACDude, Sorry to hear the bad news. I wish there was something we could do..............Stay well! |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 264 Registered: Mar-04 | SACDude, Sorry to hear of your unfortunate news. Keep your head up and plug along. Remember, in the grand scheme of things, material possessions can be replaced. Perhaps its best you were out of town at the time, no one was physically harmed by these thugs. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 400 Registered: Apr-04 | SACDude, I'm sorry to hear about the break-in. As Sem said, the material things can be replaced and I'm glad you and your lady-in-residence were not harmed. The hardest thing will be to overcome that sense of violation where someone has invaded your space and your sense of security. Be strong and don't let those morons steal that too. Best wishes to you. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 401 Registered: Apr-04 | Kegger, Jan has given you an important message. Start exploring the music and worry less about the tweaks otherwise we may have to get you to AA - Ampoholics Anonymous. lol I've had a little more "old school" exposure myself this week - a turntable and vinyl. In the short free time I had to work on it, let's say I'm appreciating cd's a little more. lol. This position may change once I get the TT tweaks figured out. Jan, Some are reporting the debate as a "draw" - they are seriously delusional. Even most right-wing pundits agreed Mr. Kerry clearly won this debate. Mr. Bush was seriously exposed in round 1. Despite the many rules around the debate format, the candidates did not have the specific questions available to them before the debate. If they had, Mr. Bush may have been better prepared. What we saw is his inability to think and articulate the issues without a script and how insulated he is from the realities of what is going on it Iraq as well as how insulated he is from opposing viewpoints. He simply could not handle it. His advisors have done him no favors and that was clear Thursday night. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 402 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Going back to an older post about the cabinet for your Mac. I believe JohnA was the one who recommended Rosewood and I concur. The piano gloss black will blend in with the Mac black glass. The rosewood will "frame" it like art - which it is. The rosewood will also match better with the speakers than the piano gloss black. Show us pics when you get it! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 403 Registered: Apr-04 | 2C, Hope the Mahler is as moving for you as was the 2nd. I hope to attend one of the March performances of the 7th. I'm glad you enjoy Tift Merrit's Tambourine. I hate to make a recommendation to someone and have them end up hating it. It's not an earth-shattering, new frontier, release but is a lot of fun. Now, if MR would just pick it up. :-) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2189 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, More on the turntable, arm, cartridge please! Also the LP(s). When things are bad with LPs they can be very bad, I am sure Jan will agree. I am working my way through my "new" LPs and have hit a bad one; scratches, jumps, vinyl bubble (these always seem to be near the beginning of side 2, or is it my imagination). Never mind, it was cheap, and I have other versions of the same stuff. I am saving PF. Also Chris Barber. SACDude, Sem has the best take on your tale, I think. Just post a line or two, sometime. saying you're OK. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rick - Tell me more about your experiments with the floor placememt of your speakers. Did you do anything other than put the front of the speaker on the board to tilt it up? Did you, or are you considering, using the Mapleshade stands? I realize people get paid for their time in research but the price he wants for his piece of maple is kinda outrageous. And I'm rather over the claims of one material being better for cones than any other. Sounds too much like Monster Cable marketing. I'd be interested to know your results if you move the speakers onto a lower (18") stand. The idea of the Mapleshade tweak, as I understand it, is to put the woofer close enough to the floor that the bass wavefront has no cancellation by reflecting surfaces. If that is true, you either have to put the speaker high enough that reflections are minimized or low enough that they, essentially, don't exist. Kegger - What say you to my suggestion? A world of music awaits. I went to the Dallas Symphony last night to hear "The 1812 Overture" and Shostakovich's 7th (Leningrad) Symphony. Dallas does have a terrific concert hall, if you see a recording made in the Meyerson Center give a listen. The hall has a great sense of warmth with lots of detail and bite when necessary, and close to top notch dynamics. That's not an easy combination to get, particularly in a new concert hall. The Lay organ is very good too, though the concerts have scarcely used it for the last few years. I sat in the cheap seats (Meyerson doesn't have a bad seat), Litton conducted (he gets all the notes in the right place but isn't the most dramatic of conductors) and listening at home to an earlier recording of the Shostakovich done by Matta leaves me feeling my HiFi (and most any I've heard) still leaves a lot to be desired compared to the real thing. The sound of the contrabasoon is not like any I've heard through speakers. The cannons in the 1812 were recorded and sounded so out of place against the live performers. The Dallas audiences are very polite. (Until the last minute of a performance when they stand up and start racing to the exits.) They sit and don't make a sound. If it weren't for the coughs you'd think they'd died. But there is still something about live that doesn't translate onto a recording. My SACD version of the 7th is horrible as the engineer on the mix board was a chimpanzee. Levels on sections of players go up and down as if they were moving in and out of the hall in a game of musical chairs. The multichannel mix is worse as sounds just appear. Pink Floyd meets Shostakovich. For anyone not familar with the Leningrad Symphony, Shostakovich wrote the first three movements as the Germans stormed through the countryside on their way to the second largest city in Russia. They stalled a few hundred yards from the city limits and stayed there as the residents fought off the occupation. The major battle outside of Leningrad lasted more than two and one half years (900+ days). More than a million people in Leningrad died, mostly of starvation after the animals had been killed for food. Bread was being made of wood chips. The Germans lost thousands because Hitler didn't commit the correct resources and most starved or froze to death. Cannabalism was a last resort for the Germans. Shostakovich wrote the score, while living in the city as the Germans settled in for the long haul, as a testament to the will of the Russian people and the horrors of a war that destroyed 70% of Leningrad by air warfare. Stalin sent virtually no air defense because they were committed to another front. The battles were house to house and hand to hand. Shots were fired with the combatants a few yards from each other. (If you have Discovery HD High Definition channel they have a very good series on this battle. Sixty year old footage on High Def, very old school.) This symphony is about the worst of war's conditions. The final movement is centered on a theme of hope and peace, though the battle theme makes a reappearance as a reminder of what has gone before. To listen to the music and think of what is being shown on our TV screens everyday makes one wonder who is writing the music for today's battles. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 405 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnA, Jan, in his infinite wisdom, offered up a Dual 504 TT in the transaction for the damaged Mac (he bought that from me). The tonearm is stock. Currently, a Talisman Alchemist I MC cartridge is mounted. Jan also included an Ortofon OM10. I spent several hours on Wednesday setting it up but had some difficulty getting the arm to balance in the way Jan expects. He graciously sent very detailed instructions so I'll be stepping through them again this weekend to see if I can get it right. I did get it to track and played several lp's including the following: - 'til Tuesday - Everything's Different Now - the lp on first impression, sounded better to me than the CD but I still need to listen more to describe the differences. - Lucinda Williams - World without Tears - Brand new, virgin vinyl. On first listen, I noticed different characteristics in the music on the lp vs HDCD but would not necessarily rate it better (or worse.) The HDCD is excellent - and even more so when powered by the MAC!! Last week I played it for the first time in the Mac system and it was like hearing it for the first time. - Antonio Carlos Jobim - The Composer of Desafinado, Plays - According to the stamp on the lp cover, this is "A panoramic true high fidelity record." Used - 1963 Verve release. Quite a bit of surface noise and pops - but the music is so good it doesn't matter. The only other records in my collection are the RCA Victor release of Carmen (complete) and Messiaen Catalogue D'Oiseaux. Tonight I may go pick up some lp's including a Herb Alpert album. The name is escaping me right now but a woman wearing a whipped cream dress is on the cover. I remember my mother had this record years ago. Once I get the TT setup correctly and get the records cleaned and find time to sit and listen, I'll offer up some more thoughts. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 406 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnA, In response to a past post about a Toslink to minijack adapter: VIEWALL=Y This is a UK shop. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 523 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, On the Mapleshade tweak, I placed the speakers directly on my hardwood floor. I put a 1" wood block under the front of the speaker for tilt back. I then took one of the Mapleshade brass conepoints, and put it under the speaker for tilt back. Big difference in overall clarity. Over the years I have tried my every substance know to man for isolation/internal vibe control. IMHO, I have to agree with Pierre regarding brass. That said, I have to aagree with you regarding the price of his floor stands. Granted maple IS expensive, put give us a little break here. I think we may be on to something trying an 18" stand. The problem is finding something that tall with enough mass for the experiment. How tall is a cinder block? It may be close enough. I will give that a try tomorrow. Ideally, I would like to have the Mapleshade Bedrock stands and the Sound Anchor 18" 3 or 4 post stands, side by side for a face off. I could make up my mind in about 5 minutes. If either of the 2 companies monitor this forum, Jan and I are waiting here. We would be happy to endorse the winner. Heck for being such good sports we will endorse both companies. Seriously Jan, the brass cones are the real deal. I use sets of 3 under all my electronics. If you want to check them out, let me know. I'll report back on the "short stands". At the moment I have the house to myself. The ladies are out for the evening, so I am going to hang out with my new best friends Mac and Spendor. We have a date with Joe Cocker's "NIGHT CALLS". I highly recommend it. If you are a Cocker fan go straight to "Please No More". Enjoy your evening, hopefully with music. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1575 Registered: Dec-03 | that's what my evening is going to consist of. lot's and lots of music listening. mainly to decide which amp goes where. but i think the 2 se-40's will stay on the front speakers. the rebuilt st-70 with the new board will be mono blocked to the center. and the other 2 st-70's will do all 4 of the rears. will see if that's what does it. but prolonged listening to the mono block at louder volumes has ruled it out "for now" later, have a drink on me! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Here's my experiment for the day. (Which means I didn't do anything on the back room today.) The 6200 from Ghia arrived yesterday so this morning was cleaning all the connectors, pots and switches. Lots o' gunk came off the connectors; if you haven't cleaned your system yet go get some Cramolin or Pro Gold and some swabs. (Use a shorting plug or an old RCA to clean the jacks; spray a small amount of cleaner on and in the jack and insert the plug [make sure it fits snuggly] and twist till the jack starts to look clean. Take a swab and clean the outside of the jack and then pull the cotton off the swab and clean the inside of the jack. If you can find a nylon socket brush where you get the cleaner use it on the + of the jack. When you are done the jacks should be much shinier and the swab should be filthy. If you can, take the cover off the gear and spray some cleaner into the wipers on your pots and switches. This is exactly like cleaning a window and you should "see" the improvement immediately.) This is particularly important for those of us using old dog stuff. I put some Pro Gold contact enhancer on all the same spots that I cleaned. I set the Mac up with a Philips CD player, spare cables and the LS3/5a's in the living room which is a good sounding room. No special placement just put it between some chairs so I wouldn't trip over it and the dogs weren't tempted to do anything. The Rogers are each on a 1 1/2" thick marble tile smaller than the speakers' dimensions. A Tiptoe under the front of the marble and two pennies under the front of the speakers. PlastiTak under the back of the speakers. I still had a problem with the individual images of instruments and voices taking a nose dive towards the floor during certain songs. It's kind of like somebody slamming a door during a performance, it really draws attention to the sound. The voices still weren't to my liking. I thought about what would make this happen and I guessed it might be a lobing from the crossovers in the LS3/5a's. So I first tried the speakers upside down on the marble. The images stayed stable at a correct height and the voices locked into a believable space. But that changed the bass response by now having the woofers at the top of the speaker. So I put the speakers on their sides with the tweeters to the outside. This changed the soundstage to one that is quite good. Instruments and voices take on a size that is, like Rick says, like a much larger speaker. The soundstage is deep and wide with good layering of instruments. The Dorian recording of the Shostakovich 7th with Matta is much more like what I heard last night than before I started working with the speakers. Instruments can just exist in a space that is small or large depending on the effect desired. Flutes and tam tams, side drums and cymbals are less connected to the speakers and have the effect of filling a space with power that cuts through the room. Depth and spatial differences (something Shostakovich uses to advantage in this piece) the clarinet and the basoon in the first movement are much better now. "Cash" is on right now and the sound is very good. A good sense of space and a flow to the music that lets you in on the way the musicians worked together. The 6200 is getting better as it warms up during the day. And the sound has that McIntosh ease of presentation that is, I think, just down right impossible to get with most solid state and even some tubes. It is, as has been said here, simplicity in and of itself. No HiFi effects just a look into the music and the people who created it. Cowboy Junkies was as good as I have heard it. A simple recording but one that doesn't care for being messed with. So I would say that with that positioning of the LS3/5a's I would give a wholehearted thumbs up on anyone else trying this out. I am not 100% so far but I just put this together in the room. It still lacks about the last 5% of what I want from my system but this is very good and more than acceptable for the effort involved so far today. It is also pretty unbelievable that a small speaker, on the floor, can sound like this. As they say - Recommended. Rick - A cement block is 12" and you can get half blocks at 6". Put some PlastiTak between them. I would think brass would have some advantages but then again I would think it would have some drawbacks. Have you tried any other cone type feet before you got to the Mapleshades? When TipToes first started out they claimed they used the aluminum for the quickness it gave to the transmission of vibrations. This was due to the weight and mass of the aluminum and the claim, at that point, was that heavier materials didn't drain the midbass as well because the mass made them hold on to those frequencies. I don't know, there is a point where I have to just say I want to listen to my music and not listen to my cones, wires, this or that. The speaker placement was an easy thing to accomplish and has cost me nothing. I think I may just work with this for a while. I have Sound Anchors and they are absolutley the best stands I have come across. Especially with a speaker the weight of the Rogers they don't give a millimeter and are, literally, as solid as a rock. (Should be since they are filled with concrete.) So for now the low floor placement is worth more effort, the 6200 is a long lost friend until I get the room finished and get the Mac tubes in there. All is well in Dallas today. John, what have you done today to make the world a better place? |
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Classical 1 Unregistered guest | Hello - I happened upon your forum while doing some research, and got rather fascinated, so scrolled through a lot of the Old Dogs, Discoveries, and a couple of other chat threads. As you are now talking about "tweaks" for audio, may I ask if any of you has tried a product called Walker "Vivid?" I see that some of you are using Mapleshade products, and from what I understand, Walker is right up there with them in terms of cones and other enhancements. I have just ordered some of the Vivid, after reading as much as I could Online - rather hopeful, but not overly so, that it might help the sound of my "regular" CDs. Oh, yes, I use a Denon 2200 player, so it is rather "mid-fi," I guess? For J Vigne and Rick Barnes - I have tried the brass cones, but frankly am not sure what differences I should be hearing. I use an Onkyo 801 receiver and Paradigm speakers - so my equipment may not be up to your level? As for the contact cleaning - yes, it does help, and I use Pro Gold - BUT - I read where the Walker people have a product "SST" which they claim - obviously - is better. I'll wait to see if you folks or anybody else Online uses SST, and compares it with Pro Gold, which I do know cleans up the sound rather nicely. As I travel a lot, as a consultant, I may not always access this forum, but I hope to learn a lot from it as time and access permit. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Ghia - the Herb Alpert album is "Whipped Cream and other Delights". It was remastered several years ago but I doubt that version is easily available at this time. Rick - On maple blocks, I think you can get a thick maple cutting board that will work for the Spendors, 3/5a's and other minimonitors for less than $20. It's hard to justify Mapleshade's pricing by comparison. I have listened to Joe Cocker since his days of bringing two bottles of Scotch on stage to begin his concerts. But I gave up on his albums several years ago when he got too involved with Phil Collins and let Collins screw up three of four albums in a row with terible productions. (I almost stopped listening to Clapton for the same reason.) I'll give Joe another try. Classical 1 - Welcome. Tweaks are an ongoing discussion here. We, as old dogs, have become somewhat suspicious of "new and improved". I have used Finyl which is another CD "enhancer" and the results were audible on most discs. Which manufacturer has the best is anyone's guess in most cases. As I mentioned to John, years ago WD-40 was used as a CD treatment. Like most tweaks too many people took the attitude of if a little is good, then ... and they found out WD-40 will cause problems when used excessively. Let us know what you think of the treatment. What you can expect from cones and so forth depends on your system, where you use them and how you listen. When used judiciously, most tweaks will do no harm to your system so only you can decide whether you want to spend the money. One tweak I always recommend is the contact cleaners. SST is, from what I read, a treatment that you would want to use on either new contacts or contacts that have been recently cleaned. Contact enhancers have been around for a long time and, if used sparingly, will do no long term harm. Like so many other things in audio the results are advertised as jaw dropping, astounding, unbelievable, etc. SST is, to me, kind of pricey when good clean contacts cost so little. Between Pro Gold and Cramolin or other recent contact cleaner formulations the user is going to find any cleaner is good if you use it and the point is to use them on a regular basis. If you wish to try several and find one you like that is infinitely better than doing nothing. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2192 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, Thanks. I got there with TOS-link. I now have two inputs (Airport express and DVD-player) merged to the single optical input of the receiver. No detrimental effect on sound for either. I must remember never to have them both on at the same time, though I mean to try it, at very low volumes. I am always curious. Clear the DAC in the receiver is better than the one in Express Bass Station. I do not actually think I will ever use the Bass Station for audio; I have done it, like climbing a mountain, because it is there. The CD, DTS and DD AC-3 sound is just as good with the signal originating from computer, through Airport, as it is from a player. Yet there are whole threads on subtle differences between players. It is odd. Brenden West has started a thread mis-namedOfficial Airport Express Thread. You could not be in better hands with turntables. Dual were a top maker in the 70s-early 80s, when I was paying attention, but I do not know the model numbers. Balancing the arm is just like balancing a ruler (no jokes) but you do it with a weight (counterpoise) on a screw-thread, then, after there is zero effect weight at each end (it is balanced( you screw the counterpoise back in to a position marked as giving an effective tracking weight corresponding to the recommendation of the cartridge manufacturer. I know you have seen the following thread, and link it again here for anyone else who might be interested. Concerning turntables and LPs. Simple things your father knew, probably. Jan, For me, the whole point of home audio is to get something that resembles the real thing. We have had this discussion. Others, like Kegger, like the sound of the recording itself. That's OK. I thank you for previous recommendations of the Leningrad Symphony, and have written about it. You will remember the facetious remark "Bolero with tanks". Naxos have a new Moscow recording in multichannel, both DVD-A and SACD. I have the DVD-A. It is really good. There is a certain amount of chimpanzeeing with the centre channel, but I have heard far worse, the resolution and detail is excellent; also the reverberations give the sense of being there - our old topic, yet again. That symphony was completed in 1942, and smuggled out in microfilm, to be performed in London and New York in the same year. It is an awesome piece of music, apart from history, if you can separate the two at all. I cannot really do US politics, but I read with interest. Whilst on Germany in September I crossed the checkpoint at the East-West border, on the main road to Berlin. The museum there is quite the most frightening place I have visited, comparable to the torture-chamber of a mediaeval castle, but this one was by and and for people still alive. There is a map there of Germany with the old border, and a pin stuck at each point where someone was murdered for trying to cross; with a key to the poor bast•rd's name, address, age, where these are known. That's a lot of pins. It's a big map. Now, from the bottom left of the PC, can you offer a reason why they were all attempting to move in the same direction....? "What do I do today?" Escorted dear daughter to airport, to wave her off for her first day at university. I do believe the world is a better place for having her in it, and Joe S and his like will have a tougher time getting going, with more like her around the place. At the base of all, and despite evidence to the contrary, I think I am a humanist. It is people that matter. And there is, in fact, progress, though it does not always look like that. Sometimes it is one step forward, two steps back. Joe S and Mr H thought they could see it all, knew what was good for everybody, and could get everything right in one go. The guys who think like that are the real problem. The ones who know they are just seeing things from their own time and place, and who let people decide for themselves, are the friends of humanity. I don't see many politicians who think and speak like that; it is difficult to take sides. All the best intentions in the world can lead quickly to corruption and propaganda in the attempt to hold on to power - just look at the UK... |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "Now, from the bottom left of the PC, can you offer a reason why they were all attempting to move in the same direction....?" John, John, John, please do not try that rhetoric of, "If you are on the left you are against 1) freedom, 2) liberty, 3) justice, 4) your country ... and 5), 6), 7), etc." No one has a lock on wanting to be free or wanting to bring freedom to other people, John. It appears the difference is how you want to go about achieving that end. Your implication is I would be happier if Joe S. and Mr H. had their way 60 years ago. John!? As Italians are fond of saying, "Come ona over here, I wanna slappa you face some." Congratulations on your daughter's entrance into college. Education is what will make the world a better place. And I'm certain that with the training you have given her, she will hold her own against anyone who tries to impose their ideas upon her. |
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Classical 1 Unregistered guest | J Vigne - good grief! You and John A certainly do get into esoteric discussions! I won't even try to jump in there! I see - unless I read wrong - that your forum-member Ghia Cabriolet is a woman. Are there any others hiding their gender on the forum? Always glad to get the input of women - they do tend to be more "lets-get-to-the-facts" than many of us "guys," who often tend to peacock-tail their writings to the point where - well - the point is forgotten! But (ahem!) back to the point. Having set myself up for target practice here - I wonder if cleaning all contacts with tried-and-true alcohol is just as good as any cleaner. Then - as one of my friends does - spray WD-40 on Q-tips and coat the contacts lightly. She (yes, "she") claims that it makes the contacts connect tighter, and much easier. But I wonder - does the WD-40 either impede or help the flow of current? Don't know. As to my heavier-than-the-world brass points - I'm going to remove them from under the Denon. They look awful, and I just can't seem to get any better performance from the CD player - unless I'm missing something that Rick Barnes and others gets from their use. I'll save them for ammunition in case the Muslim hordes invade! But wait - I think Mapleshades may take them back, they're only a month old? And for Ghia - you are quite fortunate in having some McIntosh equipment! I've always felt that those amplifiers were better than any others, and I have listened to a LOT of them! Personally, I like to listen to most music in only 2-channel mode - the surround often just gets in the way. Given what I think you have for associated equipment, your life should be "blue-glow" happy with your new acquisitions! And Kegger - I once was in your camp, and collected tube amps the way some people acquire stamps. Gave it up when I got married. Unfortunately, neither the amp collection nor the marriage lasted. Not sure which I miss more! I now make two condos "home" - one in Sarasota, Florida, the other in Breckenridge, Colorado. Winter-summer sort of thing. Stereos in both places, though most of my CDs reside in Breckenridge, which I love dearly! If you can stand the 10-thousand-foot altitude! Some of my house-guests leave after a day or so - headaches, nose-bleeds and upset stomachs - altitude sickness. Sad, but true. Enough - I'll get back to the deck and some frosty sun-bathing before heading back "down" to Florida for the winter thaw-out. In my job, where I advise TV stations how to hire, train and treat anchor folk, it's good to get away from contention and immerse myself in blissful music! NO TV in the living room - just in a spare bedroom, where I have to review videotaped performances and "work" with people who too often have no idea what they're saying! Peace - and music - to all. Oh, by the way, I "stole" my user name from an FM station somewhere along the highways. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | More on speaker placement: As the Mac 6200 has now been left on and running for 24 hours, and the temps and voltages have stabilized, the sound has become better than yesterday. The smoothness of pesentation is not far from my tubes and the level of listener involvement the sound invites is a far cry from my ht (can no longer be in caps, it is a tiny sound by comparison). With the LS3/5a's on the low floor position as described yesterday, the sound is tonally beautiful. There is no bloat or roll off of the high end frequencies. The soundstage has become larger and more expansive while being more inclusive. The instruments are better defined, in a space that shows the boundaries of the recording space, as separate entities that occupy a believable position in the arrangement of "the band". Chet Baker (the disc I sent you, Kegger) is presently in the room with his friends and they are enjoying their music making. The most interesting aspect of this set up is the image is incredibly stable no matter where I position myself in relation to the speakers. Even when I stand up, which puts the tweeters almmst 6' below ear level I get a soundstage that is focused and rock solid in it's positioning of instruments. If anything the soundstage is wider and deeper and more defined from a standing position. The only time the image collapses is when I move between and behind the speakers to adjust the volume. But at all volume levels and from close or far the sound is very consistent, just as it would be in a live performance. This is something I have only heard twice, to this degree, in all my years of selling and listening . Could it have something to do with the fact that both were based on McIntosh gear? No, I won't suggest that. But the Mac tubes and the Spicas had a hard time approaching this level of performance in terms of stability. The Spicas are a sweet spot speaker and the image is not as stable when you move about the room. So score one for the Rogers. I have my doubts about the tilt of the speaker having much to do with time alignment of the drivers. Most arguments for minimonitors gives the close alignment of the drivers the edge as they tend to operate as a point source which is more like an instrument in the way the wave front is launched into the space of the room. And that wouldn't account at all for the sideways palcement of the Rogers as I now have them seated. I am putting my bets on the phase coherence of the soundwave as it leaves the speaker. This is the concept of the Crown PZM microphone I mentioned earlier (the technical description of how it works to smooth the sound it gathers is interesting reading for anyone who has several hours to peruse that sort of thing). The only problem I see in this set up that I am now listening to is I placed the speakers too casually. Though the idea that this performance comes with no concern for placement other than eyeball measurments is confounding to say the least. But I placed the speakers to closely to one another. I have them about 6' apart and this suggests I can get more space between them and improve and enlarge the soundstage to even more realistic proportions. That will have to wait for the back room, the Mac tubes and more time. As is, I could easily live with this sound for a very long time. Rick, I'll be interested to hear your experiences with taller stands. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Clasical 1 - So you're the one who "worked" with Mr. Bush before this debate! Yes, John and I have some rather far fetched discussions here. But that is all his doing. I am merely here to keep him somewhat grounded. To your question of gender, I believe you have discovered Kegger's secret. As to the question of cleaning with alcohol I would say that is a good start but this is a case where the improvements of the last forty years have brought benefits. If you clean with alcohol and then follow up with Cramolin or ProGold you will still get some residue left by the alcohol. But anything is better than nothing and a bottle of Vodka is going to cost less and find more uses than Cramolin. WD40 is a pecular bird in that you can spray it into a distributor that has water in it and it will displace the water but neither insulate or enhance the flow of current. But many of the contact enhancers on the market (for $$$$$) are really nothing more than an attempt to disuade oxidation and do nothing to enhance flow of electrons. Before WD40 I know many old odgs who cleaned their system and then applied a VERY thin coating of Vaseline to the surfaces. The audio equivalent of storing pesto; cover the surface with oil and the oxidation will not occur. Reconsider your uses for the brass cones, the hordes may come from the Christian Right (which is technically incorrect on both counts). As history has proven, they are more dangerous than Mohammad followers. Your point about how many channels is at the very essence of this thread and you are on the side of righteousnous and redemption. Now let's cut the heads off those infidels who believe in Multichannel!!!! Where is Breckenridge? I am too lazy to get out my Atlas. I am familiar with Boulder, Denver and Estes Park. My parents had friends that lived in E.P and they travelled between there, Illinois and Florida. They always tried to get out of Colorado by the middle of October before they got snowed in. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2196 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, "John, John, John, please do not try that rhetoric of, "If you are on the left you are against 1) freedom, 2) liberty, 3) justice, 4) your country ... and 5), 6), 7), etc." No, no, I am just looking at this from a statistical point of view; why were there not equal numbers attempting to flee in each direction....? I have never understood left-right. But I think I understand freedom-tyranny. Broadly. I also understand one can say the Soviet system was not "true" communism. One could equally say Corporate America has nothing to do with capitalism, sensu Adam Smith. It's all a mystery to me. I am just this guy. "Your implication is I would be happier if Joe S. and Mr H. had their way 60 years ago. " Not at all. We are on the same side. I just do not know what to call it. Thanks for the good wishes. Preliminary indications are that it is "duck-to-water" situation. Classical 1, "Yes, John and I have some rather far fetched discussions here. But that is all his doing. I am merely here to keep him somewhat grounded. " Jan knows perfectly well that it is the other way around.... That was just a rhetorical device. I like your appellation. I put up "Classical" under "Definitions and descriptions" but never got an answer. Any views? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "Yes, John and I have some rather far fetched discussions here. But that is all his doing. I am merely here to keep him somewhat grounded. " Jan knows perfectly well that it is the other way around.... That was just a rhetorical device. Mr. Lehrer, a 30 second rebuttal, please. Is not, NYAAAAAA! Cogitating here in Texas, I am wondering more about this placement that is creating such sound. There are two items of audio history that many here in America point to as their awakening to the wonders of HiFi. One is the sound of a big McIntosh MC275 tube amp and C22 tube pre amp. The other is the original Quad loudspeaker. It was a point source design that sat on stands just a few inches above the floor and was tilted back slightly. Many remember their first impression of this speaker being it came from the back seat of the grandfather's Cadillac. But the sound is one that lives in the memory of many young listeners, myself included, who thought this was magical. Maybe there's a corellation there, maybe not. At this point I would suggest to Ghia - The Grail is the Quad with the Mac. Just a suggestion. |
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Classical 1 Unregistered guest | J Vigne - point well taken regarding the alcohol, I may have to go to a more "commercial" cleaner? And I LOVED your reference to the CR invading hordes! Yes, I do fear them more than the folk from the Middle East - but many of them hand me very nice paychecks (many are broadcasting executives). Breckenridge is a two-hour drive due west of Denver WAY up in the Beautiful Rocky Mountains. I inherited the condo - which fronts on the Blue River - and I catch trout from my balcony! With a license (ahem!)No, no - I catch the trout with gray hackle flies - and have a license to do so! Good point on the WD-40 - but vaseline? Well. . . don't know about that! I should explain my stand on 2 vs 4-channel sound. Here in CO I have 2-channel. In Florida, there is a surround system for the TV movies, and I often just play the CDs in surround, as well. I still prefer plain-vanilla stereo. It's getting wonderfully cold here - and too early to leave for Florida - but business will take me to Texas, where I have to coach a young lady-anchor who tries to sound like Tom Brokaw, Illinois, where a station is trying to choose a new on-air talent, and the "boss" says she has to be Christian (remember?) and Missouri, where I give a talk to aspiring journalists (poor fools)and then try to calm down a station manager who says I "stuck him" with a "minority" anchor he now hates. All this starting the end of next week, so I may just keep on going after that. I love to drive across country - and do so instead of flying whenever I can. I have nobody but myself to worry about, and enough income to pay for motels along the way, so it is a fine situation for me. Oh, I drive a Toyota mini-van, which is very, very comfortable for long-distance drives. (and holds a ton of TV-type crapolla) Naturally, the van is equipped with a CD player! I usually take 50 CDs at a time, so I can pick and choose as I wish. As a fine old (rich)uncle had the good graces to pass on very peacefully this summer, I may be able to retire this winter. At age 52, I think I've about had enough of the TV biz to last three lifetimes! Who knows - I may go into stereo sales! Gotta get rid of those brass cones somehow! Ha Ha. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ta/indexe.html |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 524 Registered: Dec-03 | Classical 1, Welcome to our little corner of the forum, or "Old Dogs" as we call ourselves. We are a rather diverse assortment of oddballs and lunatics who somehow managed to find each other. We all have one thing in common-love of music. We also have a common repect for one another and enjoy the company. So welcome aboard. PS I'm sorry you don't get the sonic benefit of the brass cones. Bet you wish you had my ears! LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 525 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Classical 1-"so you're the one who worked with Mr. Bush before this debate"? Score: Jan 2-Rick 0 I have a new twist to the stand experiments. Try this and tell me what you think. Leave the speakers on the floor with the time alignment. Spread them out to 8' apart, and move in to 5' in front of them either kneeling or sitting on 2 phone books. Tell me this position doesn't give you the biggest sound stage you have ever heard, with great imaging. So what I have in mind is this. I'm going to move my listening position in from 8' to 5'. I have an old pair of wooden 28"stands I'm going to cut down to 15". I am going to make new top plates from 1" maple that I can tilt back the speakers. I'll place 3 Mapleshade conepoints under the base plate to hardwood floor. That will be my weekend project next week,, if I can get the cones that quickly. I'll let you know the end result. Any thoughts? Cheers! PS Glad to hear you are enjoying the 6200. When I first got the 6100 I said how it sounded more tube than SS. I thought you were going to think I had completely gone mad. Glad it's not only me! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 755 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick - just go multichannel DVD-A or SACD and save yourself from crawling around floors, sifting through old bits of timber, finding old phone books, eating ice-cream and saving the cones, moving furniture and scratching the timber floors, tilting speakers back, sending the family out on Saturday nights so you can selfishly sit in the sweet spot and delude yourself that only two channel stereo is the only way to appreciate music. "I thought you were going to think I had completely gone mad." Well, er - um?  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1577 Registered: Dec-03 | .....................Y E P...................... |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2197 Registered: Dec-03 | I am completely with Rick and Jan about speaker positioning in general. A wide, detailed, accurate stereo soundstage always pleases me, I never tire of it. Mrs A knew what she was letting herself in for when I proudly announced that, given the constraints of my bachelor apartment, I had found an improvement, and sawed 4" off each of the legs of my listening chair. It did sound much better. The main general consideration is to be on-axis with the tweeters, or have their axes intersect just in front of you. I find 60º separation OK, but prefer 90º if possible, just to get that wide soundstage. I wonder if the beneficial effect of tilting the speaker upwards is partly to improve the alignment of the tweeter axis with the listener. The other factor people often fail to consider is room reflections. Hard surfaces, especially between the main speakers, generate reflections causing destructive interference, and you have no hope of getting beautiful stereo sound. Going back to one of the original points of the thread, my contention is that surround sound has a bad name because it is sold as doing something that cannot be done. For example, MR writes Rick - just go multichannel DVD-A or SACD and save yourself from crawling around floors..... In my opinion, it is just as important to get the speakers in the right place. Since you have more speakers, this puts more constraints on where they must be, and where the listener must be, to get the full "holophonic" sound. Get a 5.1 system and you will spend more time crawling around floors etc. As before, I wonder if Jan speaks for many who know and understanding stereo, and their response is a sensible one if you believe the rear speakers are for "ambient" sound, which has no direction, and can be anywhere, just vaguely to the side or behind you. Then there is this ridiculous centre channel, which allows freedom to recording engineer chimpanzees. There was a throw-away remark in the current HiFi news from someone who said stereo is the only way, and he did not review AV receivers etc. because they have nothing to do with the reproduction of music. I do believe this is wrong, but I suspect most people have their surround sound systems arranged in such a way that they are not getting a musical effect, and it can be relief to turn back to stereo. Pleased with the DVD-V of Berlin Phil/Rattle Mahler 5, I bought a DVD-V on TDK of Leipzig Gewandhaus Orch/Kurt Mazur doing Mendelssohns "Italian" symphony and Mussorgsky's "Pictures at and Exhibition". The sound is very good in DTS. Interesting though it is to see Mazur enter and wave his hands around, the very nice sound stage of the recording is impossible to keep in mind when you have all the changing camera angles, as if you are some voyeuristic imp with attention deficit disorder, hopping from section to section every few seconds and miraculously flying to the ceiling of the hall, then looking full-face at the conductor, etc. etc. The fixed position of the microphones gave a great sound stage, nevertheless, including audience noises, just like being there, about in the center of the fourth or fifth row, in one viewing position thoughout. So here is the Old Dog tip for getting the best sound out of DVD-Video. The video footage is a total distraction. Turn off the TV. It is a simple tweak. Try it. It really makes all the difference. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2198 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, You can still get Quad ESLs. They are not the 57 nor the 63. Here is a resource: Quad ESL and ESL63 information. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 756 Registered: Aug-04 | John, We do know your stance! I hope you noticed the smily emoticon on my jab to Rick. I also believe speaker placement to be of the utmost importance. I am in the middle of changing the center speaker position at present because some surround music is placing too much emphasis on voices emanating from the center. A bad thing - yes sometimes. But done right, and this is where we differ, it can add real value to the soundstage and imaging IMHO. I believe all 5.1 channels have their place in hi-rez surround. Whether for ambient sounds or for parts of the recording. But it does depend on the music! And it is all about the music. |
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Classical 1 Unregistered guest | John A - interesting that you should suggest playing DVD video discs sans TV - I recently had one of my "can't sleep so I'll do music" sessions, and put on Diana Krall's Paris Concert, which I usually watch and listen to - BUT - this time (the time was 2 a.m.) I just put on the disc, turned the sound level to "medium-low" and sat down with a bit of 12-year-old Scotch and a small wedgette of Tillamook cheddar - my favorite. Well, the music washed over me, and I would have been overly distracted by the video. Think I'll try that again! But not with opera - that I need "pictures" to enjoy to the fullest. The cones, by the way, went to a fellow music-lover in the close-by town of Dillon, Colorado, where I sail my boat in our 3 weeks of "summer" at this altitude! I think he intends to make anchors out of them?? And yes, Rick Barnes - I probably do wish I had your ears. Mine are fairly well shot after years of listening to the strident spiels of anchor wannabes who have yet to determine where the bathroom is, let alone the news! As you can probably tell, I am not overly fond of most of those who "read out loud" for a living. The Mary Tyler Moore show was closer to reality than most people believe. Station managers have the novel idea that taking a chisel-nosed blonde with great, uh, assets and making her talk so fast that she can barely enunciate even simple words will bring high ratings and higher income. And then they call me in to "fix" things when said blonde just can't do the job. And I'm talking about both men and women here, folks - I'm an equal-opportunity helper! John A - I believe you mention in other forum topics that you are a fan of the Shostakovich string quartets? Ah, yes - I have heard several of them played "live" by the Tokyo String Quartet, of which (shouldn't that really be "whom?") I am quite fond. Amazing technical skills, and interpretation that I find most appealing. In My Opinion, as they say. Tomorrow I take apart many wires and clean contacts - something that I do annually in Florida, but seldom in clean-cool-air Colorado. The chances of oxidation are less here, I'm told. I also hope to get an answer to my question: wouldn't non-abrasive auto paste wax do a good job of sealing and smoothing out CDs? Anybody tried that? I'd be afraid that it might yellow up years ahead, but I'm not sure. Dinner time, so will trade the computer for the frypan - some fresh trout and fine spinach, grown just down the road. More later. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2199 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Re.Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:46 am: Many thanks. What an education. I guess my basic position is one of mistrust of people who presume to know what is good for the common man. I would tend to ask the common man. If I knew who he was, which I don't. Classical 1. I have The Rubio Quartet Shostakovich String Qt. CD box on Brilliant Classics. Wonderful performance and recording. I am up to number 7. I know exactly what you mean about listening with the TV off. It is a wonderful effect. The sound on DVD-Vs can be excellent. My Rantz and others have recommended Diana Krall's "Live in Paris" but I have yet to catch up with it. I am sure the same applies, and, indeed, the more interesting the video (and surely that one is very interesting), then the less attention you have left over for the music. Sir Thomas Beecham, well-known misogynist, is reputed to have said that he did not wish to have female musicians in any orchestra he conducted, because, if they were pretty, they were distracting, and if they were not, they were distracting. MR, I am with you, as always. Except the centre channel. It does more harm than good. Even for movies it is a daft idea, the more you think about it - a large screen is exactly where you want the illusion of sound coming from the screen, surely? A speaker in front of the screen? All I can think of for my hoped-for projection system is to give the centre channel to two matched speakers, on either side of the screen, and have to fiddle around to make it sound like good mono from a point source in the centre. Why did we not just stick with stereo for the front stage? It seem to me that movies are a perfect application for it. There is a KEF "Instant Theater" system that does away with the centre speaker completely, giving the channel to Left and Right, but it relies on reflections for the rear channels, being aimed at people who want an unobstrusive system. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1578 Registered: Dec-03 | I SECOND MR. RANTZ. on all comments from last post! ecspecially on the center channel. now granted i have a phenominol center channel speaker, but even with my old jbl i truly love what the center channel adds. majorly needed for movies. "for me!" .......................................... yo rick i wish your spendors were a little more sensative because i've been listening to my klipsch bookshelves with 2 different ones (st-70's) and could really see how they might work with your's! darnit. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1579 Registered: Dec-03 | sorry john disagree with the center. |
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