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New member Username: SquiggyUtica, Kentucky USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-04 | I have a 1996 BMW 318i sedan. I am going to install a loud high SQ sound system. I am starting with the front stage, since I will not be using rear speakers (size of car, don't really need one, and I am going to use the rear deck holes to allow the sub freq. to come in. So right now I am starting with choosing my fron speakers. I want a very high SQ set with good presence, detail, play loud, and sound good using the factory kickpanel for the 5.25" mid and options on the tweeter?? I am leaning towards the following in order Focal Utopias, Dynaudio 220 MK II, Diamond Hex 500, CDT HD or the EURO series, MB Quart QSD 213 (low eff.!!) or the Rainbow CS 230 pro. I know how I mount the off-axis or on axis will help narrow down the list. So I need some help; I can either mount the tweeter in the door high or mid, or next to the mid (I think this would be the worse), or in the A-pillars. I also have considered using the CDT Upstage system. I have two amps for mids and high I can use; either a ALPINE MRV-T420 or a JL Audio 300/2. Thanks for the help. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 1102 Registered: May-04 | I lean towards the Focals and Dynaudios, with the Dynaudios being my first choice (but that's just personal preference). Next would be the Rainbows and CDT Euro series. Especially with Dynaudios and Focals, they work best with the tweeter close to the midrange, the tweeters of both sets have extended freq. response and are designed for the tweeter to be close to the midrange. Dynaudios were designed for kick panel mounting primarily. I don't know why you think it will be worse, I'm assuming you're thinking from a standpoint of mounting issues rather than sound quality issues. aThose Dynaudios or Focals and CDT upstage system would be awesome. I'd use the JL 300/2 on them. |
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New member Username: SquiggyUtica, Kentucky USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-04 | Hey thanks, for the opinion. Yes I was coming from the standpoint of mostly the installation of the tweeters mounted close to the mid, but I did question the sound quality vs. mounting the tweeter in the factory door location and aimed up towards the windshield and possibly wire the tweeter out of phase. I have read through these forums and I like your preference Jonathan, Matt, and Glass, but your preference towards the Dynaudio's vs. the Focal Utopia's; you have stated on another thread about the Dyn being truer and flatter, I was wondering due to the difference in the tweeter and the crossover, it would tend to favor the Focal's. If you would elaborate on this, because your top two choices are also mine, and having a tough time choosing the one. On the Upstage system would you favor the 19mm or the 20mm; and silk or metal dome? I will use the 300/2. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 1114 Registered: May-04 | The Dynaudios are the softer set. The Focals use a titanium inverted dome tweeter, while the Dynaudios use a soft dome with extended freq. response. The Dyns are more neutral, have a smoother sound to them, they have no character other than the music that comes to them. You'll hear things you never heard in your music, while this sounds good at first, I mean you'll hear details you've never heard, including poor recording quality, coughing in auditoriums, etc, they'll also show error if your head unit, amps, aren't up to snuff, or if you have noise in the system (why I recommended the Jl amp, it has less noise, better SQ, etc.). They bring out EVERYTHING in the music. I've even heard the A/C in the background on some studio recorded albums. The Focals will do the same for you, both are excellent sets, it all boils down to personal preference. You'll get the best sound quality out of either set by mounting the tweeter close to the mid, especially the Dynaudios. The Dynaudios use a shallow slope crossover and the drivers are designed to roll off at the crossover freq., which is why they work best when closer to each other. As far as the factory door mount, it would lose a little SQ for either set, even if you reverse the phase, it still won't be exactly right like mounting close to the woofer would, plus it's aimed at the windshield, and there's a LOT of gap between the drivers. Your upper vocals will sound layered with this much distance, it'll just be off. Look on http://www.elitecaraudio.com under installs he shows how to make fiberglass kick panels, and you'll see his installation of Dynaudio components (by the way, the 220 MK II's tweeter isn't near that large) As far as the upstage system, I'd personally do the 19mm metal as the system will be attenuated anyway, you'll barely hear it optimally. The metal tweeter is smaller and has better range as a supertweeter. |
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New member Username: SquiggyUtica, Kentucky USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-04 | Well, I have decided to go with the Dynaudio's, but I have still a few questions. Mounting the tweeter close to the mid, in a kickpanel. To fabricate a kickpanel I can mount a 6.5", but the issue is, I will lose my dead pedal (5 speed), and I will miss it. I can mount the 5.25" in a fabbed kickpanel, and it will take a little less, but I still lose the dead pedal. So I have basically two questions; Should I buy 220 mk2, and still poissbily mount them in the factory locations, (I can still mount the tweeter close on the panel), to save my dead pedal. Will imaging still be good. Or do I need to fab a kickpanel for imaging reasons and the bigger woofer is worth it in SQ. The other question is basically on the tweeter, I too tend to like soft dome type. Should I get the MD-100, MD-130, or the Esotar. I know price and perfomance is not linear more like a j-curve but I tend to think that the better esotar would have a smooth response. Thanks for your opinions. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 1204 Registered: May-04 | I know how kick panels can be with a stick, and as uncomfortable as it is to try to find a place for your foot, I'd do the factory locations, if you're willing to, you can fiberglass around the factory location and angle the driver if possible (or if needed). The difference is negligible, you can make factory locations still sound great, the Dynaudios have great off axis response, and will work very well in a door (mine are in an 83 Chevy truck, in the door since kicks don't work well in a truck like this). I like 6.5" components better than 5.25, they have better midbass and a smoother midrange. I'd do the esotar, I LOVE that tweeter, very smooth and detailed. I considered it for my truck, but ended up with a System 360, I'm still considering replacing the MD 100 with it. |
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New member Username: SquiggyUtica, Kentucky USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Jul-04 | Thanks again for your input. Okay, now here is the situation; If I stick with the factory location even the 220 MK II will be tight fit, but it will fit. You cannot purchase the esotar tweeter with the MW 150, I will have to purchase it seperately and use the 220 crossover. If I go with the 6.5" I have to go with a fabbed kickpanel. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 1214 Registered: May-04 | Just check the prices of buying them seperately, the esotar tweeter will be more expensive, not counting adding the cost of buying seperately. If it's a lot more expensive just get the MKII. Like I said above, if you were willing to fabricate a kick panel (or have one made for you) then you can also do that with a door, someone could make a fiberglass mount for you and angle it to your liking. That's the only drawback of Dynaudios, difficult to install. |