I am moving to Germany in 6 months and have decided I am going to get a coupe of some sort (probably an Alfa Romeo GTV). I currently use an Alpine PDX-5 for everything, but I think I want to upgrade and finally get 2 separate amplifiers. Since I will be getting a small car, I dont care about using rear fill at all, and I just want a nice 2-channel amp for my front stage. I have never personally heard any Sundown products because I currently live in Japan and no one here has even heard of them. I have seen many members on this site post that they make great amps that are good for SQ applications. the SAX-125.2 looks like a good choice for me and has plenty of power to push a nice set of 2-way components. Does anyone have any experience with this amp or any of Sundown's non-subwoofer amps? Also if anyone has any suggestions for another 2-channel or 4 channel bridgeable amp with similar output, I am open to suggestion. I am still not sure what setup I want to run for my sub, but I am looking into a Fi Q possibly...
Sundown is a US company, and only sold via their website, which may be why your friends aren't familiar with them. Their upper model amps are all MilSpec components, and very well made. Good stuff.
I have seen them for sale on Woofers Etc. as well. It seems that I won't be disappointed if I buy a couple of their amps without hearing them first. I like the fact that they are a US company as well. I think for now I will plan on buying a SAX-125.2 and a SAZ-1000D. Now I just need to figure out sub and front stage I want.
Ehh I have to disagree there.. an amp is an amp, really. Ideally, it shouldn't color the original source signal, so it should be transparent, simply increasing the amplitude of the input voltage. That said, what you're buying in an amplifier is usually build quality, and perhaps features like a built-in crossover, pass-through master/slave inputs and outputs, or the like. You're better off spending more money, time, and attention to the speakers, and cabin treatment, than on which amp is better than another. As long as the amp is well made, you should be OK. Get the RMS power rating you need, and shoot for an amp with a lot of capacitance and a good power supply. Amps aren't really as targeted at SQ or SPL applications the way speakers are.
Glasswolf's comments make sense to me. I work in satellite communications and work with frequency converters, traveling wave tube amplifiers, and klystrons. The most important things about how they function is that they amplify without adding noise to the signal and they have very linear gain. I guess it sounds like the same traits apply for audio amplifiers as well.
I will agree that proper installation, speaker quality, signal quality and power quality are critical. maybe deadening too.
Once you have all that real right, saying that amp A is going to sound just like amp B to you is just *chat* unless you test them both yourself and in your own setup.
The thing about saying one amp "sounds better" than another means that one of the two amplifiers is coloring the output somehow. Richard Clark has a standing invitation to anyone who can prove that any two amps sound better within specified parameters (no clipping, same output power, etc) that pays ten grand to the person who can scientifically show a difference between two amplifiers. This wager has been standing for about ten years now, and nobody has proven him wrong to date. That said, and because we don't deal with tube amps in car audio very much, so we're talking strictly SSA applications here, what you're buying are features, and build quality.. and perhaps asthetics. You are also, of course, buying efficiency but that's based on amplifier topography, which is independent of price, and often in fact, inversely proportional, as class AB amps cost more, and are less efficient versus class T or D.
aaaaanyway, yeah deadening will improve the performance, since any resonance in the cabin's sheet metal, plastics, etc.. is energy that's not going into producing an amplified version of the source material (compressing air) the better the car is deadened, the more sound you keep inside the car, and the more efficient the audio system will be.. and as an added benefit, the less you'll piss off people around you in other cars, homes, etc
"Better" is one thing the same is another. I really prefer to do tests in my own setup which is where I am going to be at anyways..
Honestly I think is not an unfair test to compare a few amps in an otherwise identical high end setup (with the help of a clamp and a scope)...PEOPLE who are interested YOU SHOULD TRY THIS.. and make your own mind instead of listening to any good arguments.... and if all amps sound exactly the same to you after all the efforts* then I will have no objection, you didn't drink any Kool-Aid.
* chronic exposure to loud noise, high blood pressure, use of ototoxic substances, trauma, aging among others could be the cause.
I did note that the inability to tell one amp from another in r. Clark's challenge is dependant on his test parameters, being within an unclipped power output, at equal power output across the tested and compared amplifiers, basically showing simply that the amps don't, or shouldn't "color" the output of the input signal. The test also specifies no use of a "loudness" or "boost" circuit introducing any equalization into the mix, and what not.. so really the specs for the test demand that every amp is equal to begin with.. then you're just testing input signal versus output signal across the range of amps compared.
As I did note, some things to make an amplifier a better product, like the power supply qyality, size of the toroidal transformer and amount of capacitance, as well as the ESR of the caps used for the audio path, and so forth allowing a better amp to have superior headroom and response time (in other words the ability to track the input signal better.) I'm simply offering the opinion that if you're going to look at spending more money to go from "good" to "audiophile" grade for gear, the amplifiers are not where I'd first focus my attentions. Your choice in speakers, and speaker cabinet construction would be a more viable choice for audible improvement versus money spent.
In the end, your ears are the most important thing you can use to judge a product or system. Don't get too lost in numbers and specs, or charts, graphs, and meter and scope readings. Differences you can see on an O-scope are often times far below audible levels. An example being a THD rating of 0.01% versus 0.001% on an amplifier, when speakers themselves can produce distortion levels in the 10-15% range simply by their design and functionality, and audible distortion in a subwoofer for example, often starts around 10% or higher.. making the THD of an amp pretty much meaningless. This is even further exemplified when you consider how many ways there are to measure THD, which can skew the results on paper in the favor of the manufacturer or advertiser.