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New member Username: User65Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-12 | Hi, I am curious if the following amps will suffice for my setup. I'm going to be running infinity components in the front, tweeters in the rear, and (2) 10" or (2) 12" subs. It's a classic volkswagen beetle, so not much is required to make it sound good. I previously had a single pioneer 12", (2) 6x9's with a off-brand amp that worked. Now that I am done with school, I'd like to invest in a bit higher quality. Here are the amps I'm looking at. Price point is a huge deciding factor, but I still want quality. I have no experience with car audio. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewitem.php?id=9711&SearchClickout[query_id]=114 59938 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewitem.php?id=9712&SearchClickout[query_id]=114 59938 I'm looking at these for subs: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44217_JL-Audio-CS212-WXv2.html Also, do I go with a 2 channel or mono amp? I'm assuming that if I run 2 subs, I should have a 2 channel amp, 1 sub for mono... Right? Thanks in advance |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina America Post Number: 14745 Registered: Dec-03 | First to be honest, I'd rethink the setup overall. Why tweeters in back? Get a decent head unit that has 3 pair of pre-outs (RCAs, F/R/S) Get a 2 channel amp (or a bridgeable 4 channel and bridge it to run the fronts) Get a good component set of separates for the front (like the Infinity Kappa, or Alpine Type R 6.5" separates) get a monoblock (1 channel) amp for the sub(s) go with one 10" or 12" sub in a ported (tuned to about 28-31Hz) or sealed enclosure. All you need for a really good audiophile grade sound system is a good front stage, and one good sub, and an amp to power each. Forget rear fill speakers.. especially in a car that small. I used to compete in SQ events using a Festiva. Trust me, you don't need rear speakers, and the sub can go either in your front boot, or in back in that section between the engine and the rear seats. your call there. if you want good amps, look at www.audioque.com |
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New member Username: User65Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-12 | GlassWolf, thanks very much for the reply. I feel like Homer right now going "D'oh!!!" as I just purchased some more equipment... pretty much all of it from what I can tell. I'd be willing to change it up and re-sell the equipment if you think I made a mistake. Good to know on the rear speakers. I did go with some infinity 1031t tweeters as I thought I needed some sort of "rear" fade. Perhaps I'll skip the tweeters depending on how good it sounds without them. I was thinking they'd be necessary since the speakers are being mounted in the kick panel area in the front, and can sometimes be muffled by legs when driving. Here is the equipment I own so far: Subs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001JECAM2 Front Components: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002C0HWFC Rear tweeters: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002A98OMA Sub amp: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230825902667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m149 7.l2649 Amp for highs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230825902679?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m149 7.l2649 The sub is going to be in between the rear seat and engine. I heard rockford fosgate were pretty decent... Do you think I made a OK choice going with those or should I go with the audioque ones? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1615 Registered: May-09 | That is really nice entry level gear, RF is better than Audioque IMO, is just that RF is really expensive in a price per watt basis. Not enough to justify in many people's opinion the price difference. You don't say what's your head unit, if you haven't pull the trigger on that, look for something from Pioneer or Alpine to get some better sound quality. You are ok you didn't buy any junk..just entry level, you are a long way to go from the high end power/SQ stuff though. |
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New member Username: User65Post Number: 5 Registered: Jul-12 | Thanks Joe. I bought a retrosound as I didn't want to cut up my dash or put a "blank" where the head unit was supposed to go. I did some research and it seems pretty decent, although it's probably not the greatest... https://www.amazon.com/RetroSound-900C-304-06-76-Classic-Direct-Fit-Vehicles/dp/B00TE3YXQG Sort of regretting it to be honest... I just hope it sounds OK. One thing that I've already learned is that it only has 4 preamp outs, so I will have to either run the 4 channel amp as 2 channel, and skip the rear tweeters as GlassWolf recommended, or use a splitter. Unless the RF amp has a out for the sub, which I don't think it does. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina America Post Number: 14748 Registered: Dec-03 | OK, the RF amps are fine. I'd personally send back the tweeters, and that MTX pre-fab sub box deal. The Infinity speakers up front are OK. I've used their Ref series before. They are "OK" but not fantastic, as they are the entry level speakers from Infinity. The Alpine Type R 5.25" separates would be better speakers. You can skip the rear speakers, and bridge the RF amp to drive as a two channel amp for the fronts alone if you like. The subs, I'd just go with a single sub, like an Alpine type R 10" or 12", and have a box made for the sub professionally. The outcome will be far superior in sound, both in volume and quality. if you want to learn a little more about car audio, especially in reference to rear fill, look at the speaker section at http://caraudio.glasswolf.net/ that's my site, where I posted some FAQ papers I wrote to help out people here.. mostly to answer common questions so I didn't have to keep re-typing the same stuff. there is a page specifically on rear fill. |
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New member Username: User65Post Number: 6 Registered: Jul-12 | GlassWolf - damn man, you are the sh*t! I am going to take your advice as I would be making a big mistake if I didn't... Luckily I grabbed the tweeters and subs from Amazon so there will be no questions for returning them. I've had the infinity components for over 7 months (unused) so I'm going to have to stick with those. Do you have a spot where custom made boxes are for sale and also at a decent price? I'm sure I can find the alpine easily enough. I'm going to go with the 12" for sure. Thanks GlassWolf. Your site is really informative. I'm going to dig through it now and when I go to setup my system. |
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New member Username: User65Post Number: 7 Registered: Jul-12 | Here is a box I found, but it looks like it's 39 or 32 hz... http://www.audioenhancers.com/driverspecific/ko112.php |
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New member Username: User65Post Number: 8 Registered: Jul-12 | Here is another, tuned for 34hz. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777BB1220V/Sound-Ordnance-Bass-Bunker.html?tp=554 I also noticed on the owners manual it recommends a port frequency of 35Hz. http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_SWR-10D2_4_12D2_4.pdf |
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New member Username: User65Post Number: 10 Registered: Jul-12 | Here is another that's in stock, but it seems kind of cheap but they claim it's tuned to 34Hz. http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/2816656/vpcsid/0 /SFV/30046 It's .1 smaller than recommended for cubic ft, but the larger one they have won't fit the depth I need. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina America Post Number: 14754 Registered: Dec-03 | thanks. OK, first box is tuned too high. the Fb is your tuned freq. and F3 is the cutoff (where the output steeply rolls off below that point, which happens with a ported box.) The first one has an Fb of 39Hz. You want something closer to 35. The second box, at Crutchfield is perfect, and that would serve about as well as having one made for you, with the one exception of being able to have a custom box made to fit a specific location snugly. I wasn't sure which sub you chose to go with, so I used a basic tuning frequency I prefer. If yours recommends 35Hz, then the 34Hz box is perfect for you. you can be off by a fair amount in recommended box volume as long as the port is tuned to the right spot. going a bit smaller on a box will make the output tighter or snappier, while going larger tends to extend low end output a bit, and give a bit more gain.. it's just a game of trade-offs. Yours should be a great balance of both. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina America Post Number: 14755 Registered: Dec-03 | PS, those Infinity ref comps should be fine. I used a pair in a Jeep I had (grand cherokee) for several years and they were very nice. you'll like them a lot more with the amp than you would off the head unit alone. |
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Bronze Member Username: User65Post Number: 11 Registered: Jul-12 | Thanks a million GlassWolf. You are a wealth of knowledge, my friend. The box at crutchfield definitely fits my space better, it's just unfortunate that it won't be in stock for a month or so... Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait. I went with the alpine type r SWR-12D2, I guess it's the fifth generation. I had the choice of getting the old 1223D, but the new generation had like 1000w rms, so I couldn't resist. I am definitely going to hook the 4ch RF amp up to the components. Now I just hope that crutchfield will get that enclosure in sooner than expected! Thanks again GlassWolf, you rock! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1616 Registered: May-09 | You really can build your own box easily and perfectly customized to your application for cheap if you have some patience. I can provide you a spec with your available dims. Surprised you really made amazon have their sub box..lol the 12D2 is far superior sub, I'd say is an intermediate level sub, now your sub amp is short on power to drive it and I would plan for 4AWG wiring. Also your HU is....well I would start by changing that asap, I understand your wish to make look stock but it will likely sound really bad.. test it out before installing. |
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Bronze Member Username: User65Post Number: 12 Registered: Jul-12 | The sub is 500-1000w RMS, and the amp is 500w rms. I figured it would be just right until I decided to upgrade the amp to push the sub harder. It might not be for awhile since I don't plan on competing with the sound system, it's mostly for daily driving. I planned for 4AWG power wiring in the beginning, so that's already ran. I think I made a mistake by choosing 8AWG as my ground, so I'm replacing that with 4AWG. Sucks to hear about the HU... I saw this one guy on youtube with 2 R12's and it seemed like he was able to get pretty decent sound out of the HU, he had the same model. I know I won't have all the advanced configuration features, but I guess I'm just looking for something that will keep my dash as stock as possible. It won't power any of the speakers, it's just going to feed an input to the amps. I'll try to get it up and running in the first 30 days as that's the return policy with crutchfield, but the box may not arrive until September so that might be an issue. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1617 Registered: May-09 | If you are keeping the 500W amp 8 AWG is fine, if you were to drive the Alpine to rated then probably 4AWG. Seems you are all set then, best of luck with your new audio. |
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Bronze Member Username: User65Post Number: 14 Registered: Jul-12 | Thank you guys. I'm very satisfied with the bass. I just hooked the sub and custom box I had built today. The box was built by Super Crew Sound. They did a fantastic job, very well built and it hits really hard. http://supercrewsound.com/ I couldn't even get it past half volume. That sh*t hit so loud, I'm sure I'm the new favorite neighbor in the hood! The Type-R sub is freakin insane, and I'm only pumping 500watts to that thing. Glass, a special thanks for the heads up on the tuned port on the box. I cannot believe how gnarly it sounds. My girlfriend was saying that the walls were shaking INSIDE the house, haha! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina America Post Number: 14789 Registered: Dec-03 | heh, glad I could help. When I was in college, I used to drive a Ford Festiva (long, long ago) and I had a pair of Cerwin Vega 12" subs (old treated paper cone subs rated for 250 watts each, very sensitive subs) and drove them with an Orion 280GX (160W x 2ch) with a box that was large, and ported, tuned around 28Hz. My parents used to say they could hear me coming about a block away, which is where I'd turn the volume down before coming into the neighborhood. haha That type R should serve you well for years to come. |
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Bronze Member Username: User65Post Number: 16 Registered: Jul-12 | Yeah... about the type R. I was stupid about not keeping it in a safe place while waiting on the box. I went to move some space around in my office and I dropped a set of allen wrenches on it... Ouch. Cracked the cone really bad. Well, I gooped it up like crazy and still installed it. I was very happy to see that it performed still. I will have to replace eventually but at least I'll get some use out of it. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina America Post Number: 14791 Registered: Dec-03 | see if the warranty will replace it. you'd be surprised at what they'll cover sometimes. |
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Bronze Member Username: User65Post Number: 18 Registered: Jul-12 | I called Alpine and they said the cone is out of the warranty. Although I did call right around their closing time, so I'll give it another shot to see if I can get someone who is willing to assist. Thanks GlassWolf |