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Bronze Member Username: Bruhneedluv2Post Number: 81 Registered: May-04 | this is not an attempt to slash, bash, crash, be crass, or trash anyone in here who gives advice to the ignorant (having a lack of knowledge). I just ask all of the experts and tech-sperts in these rooms (you know who you are) to not be so condescending, cynical, and sensitive to the sheep who look for a shepard (including me) when it comes to car audio. I would like to say that most of in here are adults and would like to be treated as such. There is no purpose of trashing the products that others are buying because it does not fit the upper class of components that the "audio elite" recommend. I would be safe in saying that 90% of us in here is asking for cut and dry advice, not the lousy choice speech about the products given, unless they want a recommendation. All of us in here are stoked, jacked, and hyped-up about car audio and need a place to show their enthusiasm. Only those that ask for the "what do you think about this?" answer should get it. I have fallen suspect to that and had verbal altercations in here due to that. None of us need anyone to hold our hands in here like children (although some of in here are and/or act that way), but a simple, "hey, let's make what you have sound the best it can" attitude. I know that it is hard for some in here to grasp the fact that "they want me to give them advice about this sh!+?! I'll just tell them to get better sh!+ !" We all ask for advice in here, but flat out most of us are pretty content with what we have. otherwise, we would not get Audiobahn, Sony, or Kole Audio (my brand) clan members that throw up "gang" signs about their products. If the products we have are lousy and total crap, just say, "Good for you!! Glad you like it." and keep the uncontrollable laughter outside of the screen. I know big dawgs, it is hard to see people waste their money, but hey at least it is not yours!!! Smile people!!! |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 4020 Registered: Dec-03 | "...not be so condescending, cynical, and sensitive? we try, but man, it's not easy sometimes. some people are seriously dense. others are just outright ignorant by choice, and yet others want impossible solutions and refuse to accept teh fact that it may cost some money to get the results they want. It gets really frstrating. Especially when we devote countless hours to assisting people for barely a thank you most of the time. Just something to think about. Also people should give thought to using search engines like Google before asking a question. Many threads I don't even read because they are things someone can find easily with a smidgeon of effort. some thread topics I don't read include but are not limited to: "this brand versus that brand" "what should I buy? "is this any good?" "anything about sony or audiobahn anymore" "y0 I NeEd HELP!!!!!!!!" "someone design a box for me (for free)" "I would like to say that most of in here are adults and would like to be treated as such." when people act like adults they'll be treated as such most of the time.. but when they come in asking questions in their pseudo-ghetto slang ebonics with misspellings a 4th grader shoudln't be making, you have to expect some criticism simply for the inability to understand half of what they're trying to say. Then you have the ones you do stupid stuff like asking questions in the totally wrong place and when they're politely asked to move their question to the appropriate forum, they leap in with insults and name-calling. "There is no purpose of trashing the products that others are buying because it does not fit the upper class of components that the "audio elite" recommend." well, that's not entirely true. If someone buys a cheap, junk product (like a pyramid amp) or is considering doing so, I feel the right to let them know they're about to waste their money, of that this is the cause of the poor performance they may be complaining of. Now in the same light, how this is done is a different matter. As I've said before, It's one thing to say, "sorry, but that amp is very poorly made and it's not really 2500 wats. it's really about 200 watts." and saying, "wow you're a douche bag for buying that piece of crap amp. someone should castrate you so you don't ever breed!" one is true and informative, and while not what they probably want to hear, it is honest. The other is just insulting needlessly, and doesn't actually tell the person the problem. "I would be safe in saying that 90% of us in here is asking for cut and dry advice, not the lousy choice speech about the products given, unless they want a recommendation." ok, where do you draw that line? if someone buys really lousy equipment and wants to know why it sounds like two cats boffing compared to his friend's JL system, what do you tell him? It's just bad luck? The Gods are against him? If his question is, "what can I do to make my whip bump like mad, y0?!?!?!?" the answer is simple. buy real gear and get it professionally installed. Then as you already know, the person will get upset because they want an answer like "oh turn up the gains and that's all you need to do." "Only those that ask for the "what do you think about this?" answer should get it." they simply need to be prepared for honest opinions. that's all. they also should be prepared for different views, ones they may not agree with, and above all else, remember that they are getting what they asked for, and to take all of it with a grain of salt. "None of us need anyone to hold our hands in here like children (although some of in here are and/or act that way), but a simple, "hey, let's make what you have sound the best it can" attitude. I know that it is hard for some in here to grasp the fact that "they want me to give them advice about this sh!+?! I'll just tell them to get better sh!+ !"" I hate to say this, but as a metaphor, I don't care how hard you try, you'll never get a whoopie cushion to sound like an orchestra. people want to know how to make cheap crap sound like good, and usually expensive high end systems. IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. They are deluded or ignorant of the reality of the audio world, and while that may sound mean, I'm only being honest. you're not going to get two $20 subs, and a $45 BOSS amp and get it to sound like two RE subs on an Arc amp. I can get a system properly tuned to make it sound "right" when it's cheap, but that means setting gains correctly, which then means the subs aren't going to sound loud enough because the cheap amp only puts out a real world 100 watts x 2 and not 1600 watts. then the person says hey that sounds weak. well yeah, what'd you think it'd sound like? At least now it's not pure distortion playing through a clipped amp with two subs with fried coils, popping like a Jiffypop can. "We all ask for advice in here, but flat out most of us are pretty content with what we have." I disagree there, politely. I think people are content because they don't know any better, or they aren't content at all which is why they are here in the first place, but they don't have the knowldge to understand why what they have performs so poorly, or how to fix it or with what to replace it. anyway it's difficult to generalize like this at all since every person is unique, as are most of the problems we encounter. "If the products we have are lousy and total crap, just say, "Good for you!! Glad you like it."" erm, ok done that. the problem is, it still doesn't answer their questions, nor does it in any way help them. Now, telling them I'm glad they like their gear, but it's still the reason their system doesn't perform to their desire covers both bases. Ya just need the right tool for the job, and honestly, most of these problems are a result of not having the right tool. I blame the cheap companies like pyramid for this in part because of advertising. a "2400 watt" amp that turns out to be a 200 watt amp is flat out misleading to people who aren't trained in what to look for. This along with the failure of people to educate themselves before making a purchase leads to a lot of disappointment. This applies to many things in life though. I always try to research anything I plan to buy. a car, a toaster, or a TV.. there's always data around to help make an educated decision if you just take the time to find it. "it is hard to see people waste their money, but hey at least it is not yours!!!" ok, would you rather be about to spend a lot of money (a lot to you anyway) and be looking at two products.. and have someone come up in the store and say, "I had that one there.. it fell apart on me a week after I got it and burned down my house because it was poorly made." Or would you rather she walk by, smirk to herself, and bite her tongue, letting you waste your money on the crappy product because she figured you'd rather be blissfully naive and buy crap than know the truth? Personally, I'd rather know the truth even if it means I have to save more to get something safe or good. The other problem is that many of the people asking questions are jobless or in school and want some massive high SQ loud system. hey, get a job. earn money. This hobby isn't cheap. It never has been. There's no magic solution to getting a high end system for free... These people with systems like you see at NOPI have sunk more money into their systems than the car cost NEW. Spending $40,000 on the audio system is nothing to some people into serious audio who want the best. You're not going to get a system anything like that at Walmart and installed by your friend for a case of beer. It's just reality. If you're willing to accept that or not is your call folks. I understand your points, and your views. I agree with them in some aspects, but I felt a need to offer some other things to consider too. no harm, no foul. rock on |
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Bronze Member Username: Bruhneedluv2Post Number: 87 Registered: May-04 | It is all good. The reason why I posted that message is for others to understand where the pros are coming from when they answer questions. you would be surprised at how many people that come in here already know what kind of crap they have, but want something better than stock. True, the same price they paid for Pyramid, they could have gotten Hifonics, or the same price they paid for Audiobahn, they could have gotten Adire. The reason why I say 90% is because that percentage that come looking for advice know they might get blasted for asking, but at least got it. for you glass, You have been in the game for a long time, already have links to other forums that explain a lot of things to people. I thought you would maybe have a price comparison list (not your job I know. people need to research) to let them know, "okay, you paid this much for this item. $25-$?? more could have gotten you this with shipping or whatnot." When I was younger (around 18-10 years ago), I used to go to the audio shops, wal-mart, sears, and even the flea market to what they have. I saw the same things in about all of them except for Eclipse. that was at the shops only. With everyone carrying essentially the same thing, I went where the sales were because I wanted my music louder. When R&D and marketing kicked in, shops carried higher end things, deparments stores carried names you recognized, and the flea market carried high end and crap products (the flea market here helped low end shops become high end shops now. ridiculous, right?) remember, people defend their brands because they are content. they may come in here for the latest scoop on the hot ish (which led me to getting the Eclispe 5303 used, but works fantastic I must add), but are cool until they wanted to kick it up a notch. That was me: the head unit had to be good for its time, new or used. Got a deadhead!!! The wiring had to be solid as hell: found a 4 gauge kit that had to have the largest 4 gauge wire that I have ever seen for the price, 21.90 shipped...here's the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32808&item=5709970838&rd= 1&ssPageName=WDVW. I already knew about the current big dawgs: orion, RF, eclipse, and JL. But I wanted something different. I went DHD 12" DVC with flat piston (bad idea). Had a warranty and got the Kole MFW 10". Also did a price comparision against the website www.thezeb.com and ended up getting a $55 discount on the other Kole sub (people please use that website to get that hella discount!!) for speakers, I had tweeters placed in my car for front and rear stages, but the factory caddy speakers was gone. So I went the cheap route and got the best I could find for the price: Legacy 5.25 2 way for the front and 6x9 3 way for the rear. Major improvement for the buck, but not high end. for the amps: volfenhag zx7180 for the subs and zx7160 for the speakers. I know they are not jbl and hifonics (good quality and cheapers amps), but for bag-for-the-buck wattage and aesthetics, I like them. the 1600 watt and 1000 watt tags are for the dummies. I was a fool for the chrome and easy access controls (right on top, but covered with a tinted piece of plastic.) So, I'm all good. Last sugesstion to all, I would love to see the pros come up a brand list (in the sense of budget) with good components. for example, starter systems need to stick with these brands for radios, speakers, subs, and amps; mid-range should go with these brands; high end should be these brands, and if you want the spare-the-no-expense system, here you go with this list and then keep the thread alive for those who are seriously seeking brands. I know you have a list already for bad, questionable, good, and superior. yet, the prices vary from high end to dirt low. I would really guarantee that NO ONE in here would get a question about the brands they should get because there is a list with the rank, brand name, and prices all in one. with you, john, matt, and davids2004 backing it, that would cut down on some of the annoying questions and threads you all answer from me and everyone else in here!!! Peace |
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Silver Member Username: Pat_lTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 415 Registered: Apr-04 | Yes, were not in the 1st grade here, i am not going to tell somebody and stand up for there system if I know its not going to preform well or give them many years down the road. Wouldnt you want to know if the product your about to buy is not going to give you what you want. I sure would. I tell it how it is... Now the other part about the more expireanced people is a load of crap. The only way WE are going to learn is from our mistakes. Thankfully there is people like Glasswolf and Johnathan who know alot about this stuff to help people like us out. Sure i have put in some stupid answers but i learned how to do it right by having somebody come along and tell me. After all isnt that what a forum is about, getting questions answers, throwing out ideas, having fun (to a certin degree). When i post things i want all the ideas i can get, no matter how right or wrong it is. |
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Bronze Member Username: Bruhneedluv2Post Number: 90 Registered: May-04 | Pat, Im in the herd of sheep like the rest! I love this ish. Remember the movie Taxicab when they were listening to rock and roll and had a 200 watt system that they thought could blow the windows out, I was loving it back then!!! Nothing like hear the band Yes with their song Owner of a Lonely Heart around the 80's. Btw, I'm African American and love all types of music. I guess because I work in customer care on a regulated manner, I tend to look at people like they are smart enough to know but don't know how to be smart enough. I work in a call center handling bills, technical issues, and bill adjustments. You have to be nice when telling someone they are wrong about something and OFFER the best remedy. Honestly, people would rather have advice from someone in this manner "I see that you have this brand of blah, blah, blah. would you be interested in this brand? it's about the same price with better quality. if you really want to step your game up, how about these brands here?" It sounds cheesy as heeeeeeeeellllllll, but would be more appreciated Instead of, "man, what the phuck did you just buy? That sh!+ is the equivalent of Glee Club trying to sing while getting kicked in the balls!! I heard rats with more bass coming from their butts. Ha! your system is a heaping pile of hot corned feces smotherd with thick baby batter, served with meadow muffins, given with an ice cold urine-flavored soda!" LMAO!!!!! nobody has ever said that to anyone; but after the pros rip the newbies like me a new b-thole from knowledge, it might as well have been said. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 4034 Registered: Dec-03 | I didn't write a price comparison list becasue product lines change far too often, and so do prices. It'd be a full time job, and I'd constantly get "oh I can't find it that cheap" or "I got it cheaper" blah blah. simply put, if you want to find prices, go look for them. there are price search engines for just this purpose. "remember, people defend their brands because they are content." I completely disagree. People defend their purchases because it hurts their feelings, and their pride to look foolish when they're told they've wasted their money and bought inferior gear. It's never fun to look ignorant for not having taken the time to properly research your purchases when you get suckered with a Legacy amp. If you knew it was crap already when you paid $40 for the amp, then you defend it because it's all you can supposedly afford, and it's not fun to look like a jobless welfare case when people are talking about their JL and Zapco gear. It's pride. It's always pride. There isn't going to be a budget based list.. not one I write anyway. Nobody would pay any attention to it anyway except to complain about what's listed where. Pointless effort. sorry. People will ask anyway. they'll find every friggin sub within $50 of each other and say "this vs this vs this vs this.. WHAT SHOULD I BUY!!???!?!???!?!??" look at the sub forum. you'll see about fifty of those threads because even knowing which subs are decent, people can't seem to comprehend that the best way to buy a speaker in the end is to go and LISTEN to it. What annoys me is answering a question, repeatedly, and the answer never sinking in because the people seem too dense to figure out something relatively simple when it's all but hand drawn and done FOR them, or having people ask something that was JUST answered in 6 other threads they didn't bother to check first. It's just plain laziness, and I don't like people putting more load on me because tehy're too lazy to do a bit of work themselves. |