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New member Username: PhloppedPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-11 | Hi Guys, Im pretty new to all of this, I have previously just had a cheap sub/amp ~£100 in total, so nothing special and I'm thinking of buying a whole new system. what are your thoughts on the below? RE Audio DTS-1000.1 amplifier 800wrms @ 1OHM (I know their subs are good, I have no idea about their amps though?) JVC KD-HDR70 Head Unit (is it any good, does it have subwoofer controls?) RE Audio SEX12D2 Subwoofer 600wrms @ 2OHMs (DVC) 4 x Alpine SPR-50 5.25" 90wrms @ 4OHMs speakers for the doors (again, dont know anything about these so any info would be great) RE Audio DTS-500.2 50wrms @ 4OHMs amplifier (for the door speakers) I am also buying a ported box for the sub. All in all including shipping from the US (Im based in the UK, if you haven't noticed the '£' signs ;) ) this will cost me £740 or $1200. I dont really want to stretch the budget any further and i'm not too bothered about the door speakers being underpowered. If you think I should change any of the above, please let me know. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 1130 Registered: Jun-06 | So far, what you have selected is a pretty decent setup, however there are a few things I noticed that can be improved on. First up, the RE Audio SEX12D2 is a great subwoofer. I actually have the older version of this subwoofer and it's great. This subwoofer and the RE Audio DTS-1000.1 will be a great matchup for eachother. Second, the Alpine SPR-50 Speakers are a good choice for their price range, however the RE Audio DTS-500.2 will not be able to support all four Speakers. Not only because it's only putting out 50 Watts RMS when the Apline's need 90 Watts RMS, but because it's a 2-Channel Amplifier when you need a 4-Channel Amplifier. Below is a better choice Amplifier to support those Speakers properly: Audioque AQ4X90: http://www.audioque.com/AQ4X90-Amplifier_p_33.html The JVC KD-HDR70 Deck you selected is... decent, lets just say. Personally, I would not choose JVC if my life depended on it. Here are some better Decks around the same price range of the JVC KD-HDR70: Kenwood eXcelon KDC-X494: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22937_Kenwood-eXcelon-KDC-X494.html Alpine CDE-122: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34355_Alpine-CDE-122.html Pioneer DEH-P8300UB: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_31077_Pioneer-DEH-P8300UB.html |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14346 Registered: Dec-03 | the alpines don't *need* 90 watts RMS. 50 should be plenty. The additional 40 watts would increase output by about +2dB which is audible but not a massive increase in output. That said, if he wires the speakers in parallel on that amp he'd lose any ability to fade front to rear, but it would provide 50 watts to each of the 4 speakers. Yes he'd be better off with a 4 channel amp, and I believe audioque has a 90Wx4ch amp that'd fit the bill, but that said, you don't have to match amplifier output to speaker power handling. I could go on for paragraphs explaining why, but in short, speaker power handling is simply a thermal measure of what they can handle without damage, not a measure of what they need to reach full excursion, and amplifiers rarely see their rated RMS peak output at normal or even loud listening levels for music in a car. Every time you halve the volume, you drop the power the amp puts out by tenfold. |
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New member Username: PhloppedPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-11 | Thanks for the quick replies, as I said before im not too bothered about the door speakers being underpowered and I dont really want to spend money unnecessarily. I might even hook them up to my old amp (mutant ascension 2, which is "claimed to be" more powerful). I love AQ, especially their subs and I would have gone with that, but shipping to the UK is extortionate, Sonicelectronics doesnt seem to be too expensive on that basis. As far as head units, I quite like the Pioneer DEH-P8300UB you have suggested, so i'll probably go with that one instead. What is your reason for being against JVC so much? I appreciate the help guys, thanks! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14352 Registered: Dec-03 | JVC's higher end head units are fine. I own a few myself. The Kameleon units in particular I rather like. If you want a good head unit, look at Alpine, too. As for shipping, you may even be better off finding a comrade here in the US who'd be willing to send things on to you directly via the least expensive means possible to save you some money. Having lived overseas myself, mostly in Asia, I know how shipping rates can kill you. Please be aware that you can't really "underpower" a speaker. The only underpowering is just having an amplifier that doesn't make the speaker as loud as you want it to be. Do amplify the front stage though and don't rely on head unit power. That difference will be well worth the cost of whatever amp you choose. Remember also that double the power is +3dB in gained volume, but double the audible volume requires a gain of +6 to +10dB, which is why I noted that going from 50 to 90 watts per channel will be audible but not a life or death difference. The power handling spec on a speaker is simply a thermal measure of the amount of power or heat that the voice coil can handle without damage to the wire windings (the voicecoils.) It really has nothing to do with how much power the speaker actually needs to reach it's full audible potential. |
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New member Username: PhloppedPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-11 | @ Glasswolf, you said in your previous post that I would lose the ability to fade front to rear on a 2 channel amp, but if all of my door speakers are the same would I really need to? seeing as they should provide a balanced sound throughout the cabin. As for providing 50wrms to the doors I think this will be plenty, as my previous system used stock door speakers and it wasn't too bad. I just felt this time that upgrading them would be a nice addition, especially as im using a much better subwoofer than before (Mutant conquest 10", very cheap and provided a fair amount of bass, but performed very badly with low lows, almost non existant for eg bass I love you - basstronics, that song didnt do too well with that sub). |
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New member Username: PhloppedPost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-11 | Also, could you guys help me out with pre-amp volts please? I don't understand what kind of difference they make. For example the Pioneer DEH-P8300UB has 3 x 4v RCA outs. What will that 4v do? thanks |
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Gold Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 1132 Registered: Jun-06 | Like Glasswolf stated above, higher end JVC Decks are excelent, however once getting into that price range, there are much better options available to you IMO. Overall, i've owned a few JVC Decks back in the day. I just simply wasn't pleased with their performance and EQ settings. Later on I bought a Pioneer Premier Deck at a cheaper price, and was much more satisfied with it's performance, EQ settings and how easy it was to use the Deck. On the Pioneer DEH-P8300UB regarding the preamp volts, to keep things simple, the more preamp volts the Deck has will provide you with better performance and sound. A few years ago, it was very common to find Decks that had 4 volt preamps. However at this time of day, a lot of manufacturers like Alpine, are making a lot of their Decks with 2 or 2.5 preamp volts. Now 2 or 2.5 preamp volts isn't really that bad escpecially if you are going to be amplifying your speakers, but when you consider the Pioneer having 3 Pairs of RCA Outputs, a fantastic EQ, a CD SNR rating of 94 db and is CEA-2006 Compliant, it's hard to find something else better in it's price range of $150-$200. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14355 Registered: Dec-03 | As for rear fill, I'm a strong believer in not using it at all unless you have to entertain (drown out) kids in the back seats. Rear speakers will ruin your front soundstage and imaging, unless you either run the rears in mono (bridged rear channels of a 4 channel amp with speakers wired in series) or run the rears with a L-R configuration which is a bit trickier, and both options using a 20ms time delay and a bandpass filter keeping them producing only midbass. Vocals and highs from the rear in stero will create a floating effect that really destroys the front stereo imaging and the perception that the artist is in front of you on a stage performing, which is the goal. More on that here: http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/rearfill.html http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/frontstage.html Now with line voltage, here's the basics: most car stereos offer something in the range of 2V or 4V pre-outs (some exceptions exist ranging from about 0.8V to 16V). The difference in short, is resolution and strength of signal versus noise floor. I'll break it down briefly to give you the concept. If you graph a 2V vs a 4V signal on paper with time as the X axis and frequency as the Y axis, you'll see that you have twice the resolution, or ability to define detail with the 4 volt signal because there's just more amplitude to carry that detail, so it's reasonable to say that the 4V signal is able to better maintain the quality of the original source material going from CD/mp3/whatever to the amplifiers, and then on to the speakers. The other thing to consider on that graph is something called your noise floor. Think of that quiet hiss you hear in some stereo systems when the volume is all the way down. That noise floor is introduced by a number of factors like electromagnetic and radio wave interference, your ignition system (same thing) and so forth. The stronger the signal in relation to that noise, the better your signal to noise ratio, and the more music you'll hear, and the less noise. That's as overly simplified as I can really explain the benefits of a higher line voltage. If the difference is actually audible, and not just something on paper? That can be argued till the cows come home, but I'm an engineer so I like to over-engineer my audio systems when I set them up, since in the end any chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Better to go with a better product or option and know it's better, than to go with something lesser and hope you won't notice, ya know? It helps if you can afford that choice though, of course. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14357 Registered: Dec-03 | Joe makes a good point, too. I used to sell JVC, along with Alpine, Eclipse, and Pioneer Premier head units at the shop where I worked, and JVC was really targeted at the soccer moms and cheapskates who came in and wanted a radio as cheap as they could get because Junior stuck his jelly sammich in the tape deck again, or whatever.. Nobody looking at serious systems really even considered the lower end JVC stuff. It's decent for the price, but yeah once you even get into the $200 USD price bracket, you have really nice Alpine and Pioneer decks with which to contend, and I'm still a huge fan of both Alpine and Pioneer, having owned everything from both brands from the lower end stuff to the Stage 4, Premier flagship, and F#1status gear. |
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New member Username: PhloppedPost Number: 7 Registered: Jul-11 | Thanks both for those explanations, very understandable! I've done some research on that pioneer deck and it's perfect for what I want, thanks for the recommendation Joe! @ Glasswolf, I understand where you're coming from, but I would like to keep the sound level even throughout the car as I often carry passengers and I would like them to enjoy the music too. I won't be upset if it doesn't sound like I'm at centre stage. Thanks for all your help Joe and Glasswolf, I'm certain I will be better off following your advice. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14362 Registered: Dec-03 | I'd still suggest using a 4 channel amp to power front and rear speakers.. at least then you have the ability to fade front and rear if you ever desire to use it, say, in case the passengers in back want to talk while you drive and listen to the radio or whatever.. it's just convenient to be able to do.. and once you have the fader set where you like it, you don't ever have to mess with it again unless you want to.. but at least you have the abality. Just a thought. a had unit with 3 pair of pre-outs is ideal to use when you go with amplifier ssince it's typically the most versatile option. Best of luck! Oh PS, Alpine makes some very nice, and quite affordable 4 channel amps.. take a peek at Amazon if you want a feel for pricing, but I see them for under $200 quite often. |