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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 1 Registered: May-11 | I have two 10inch pioneer premiers that need are 800rms and 4ohm dual voice coil. I plan on bringing them down to 2 ohm to doulb the rms so I only need a 2 channel amp that puts out 400 or less rms I ordered a hifonics amp but am willing to change if anyone has a better option I want something CLEAN so around 100 signal to noise and less than .05 distortion or right at it please help |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 44 Registered: Apr-11 | is that 800 watt rms each or for the set? whats ur price range. uld do better with a mono amp thats 1 ohm stable because u can bridge both of them subs together for a final 1 ohm load. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 45 Registered: Apr-11 | ive heard hifonics amps are sh!tt. sorry |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 49 Registered: Apr-11 | but this was only hearsay havent heard 1 yet |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 2 Registered: May-11 | yeah I switched from a hifonics to a soundstream already after reading more into it and yeah 800 a piece but I wouldn't mind going less since I'm just doing this for personal use not competative |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 53 Registered: Apr-11 | the soundstream rubicon 1600.1d would match them perfectly. or since u dont mind underpowering the aq 1200d is supposed to be a real good amp and and has the 100 db rating ur lookin for. if it helps the aq is what i'm goin to buy. heres the link. http://www.audioque.com/AQ1200D-Amplifier_p_30.html u might have to copy and paste it to ur browser. if u wire ur subs together paralell in series u will get u will get a 1 ohm load. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 940 Registered: Jun-06 | There is only one subwoofer from Pioneer that I can think of that has a 800 Watt RMS rating and is 4Ohm DVC would be the Pioneer TS-W2502D4. If that's true, that what your ultimate goal that you are trying to reach is 1600 Watts RMS at a 1Ohm or 4Ohm Load. To find an Amplifier that can put out 1600 Watts RMS at 4Ohms would be crazy expensive, so your best bet is to find an Amplifier that can handle a 1Ohm Load. Keep in mind you will want to wire your Subwoofers in Parrallel. The amplifier that you already purchased would not be able to support both of these Subwoofers at one time, let alone one. What you should be looking for is a Monoblock amplifier that can achieve 1600 Watts RMS in a 1Ohm load. A good example of an amplifier with these specs would be: Sundown Audio SAZ-1500D V.2: http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/item/saz-1500d-v2.html?category_i d=1 Atomic Class D 1600: http://www.atomicspeakers.com/?pg=amp_class_d_1600 Audioque AQ2200D: http://www.audioque.com/AQ2200D-Amplifier_p_31.html Also, keep in mind that with this much power, you will need to upgrade the electrical system of your vehicle to support these Amplifiers. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 941 Registered: Jun-06 | Also, to D Loco, Hifonic amplifiers are not complete trash. The main reason on why people do not preffer to go with Hifonics is because the typically tend to overrate their amplifiers. The best way to find a Hifonics RMS rating is to take off 20%. For example, lets take a look at the Hifonics HFi1000D. It's ratings are listed for: 4 ohms: 475 watts x 1 chan. 2 ohms: 750 watts x 1 chan. 1 ohms: 1000 watts x 1 chan. After taking off 20%, we are looking a more realistic RMS rating for this amplifier: 4 ohms: 380 watts x 1 chan. 2 ohms: 600 watts x 1 chan. 1 ohms: 800 watts x 1 chan. Now this rule can be applied for nearly all Hifonics Amplifiers. If you are looking for a good quality Hifonics Amplifier, I would suggest trying to find one of the older versions. Those amplifiers tend to be more true to their ratings. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 63 Registered: Apr-11 | @ joe s all the new brutus amps are cea compliant and will do rated power at 14.4 volts. i was fixin to buy the brz 1700.1 amp and a lot of folx told me i would be throwin my $ away and suggested i spend about 25 more for the aq. this is y i said heresay. the reason i suggested the soundstream was i didnt know his price range and it was the cheapest decent amp i could think of that would match his subs. i was originally goin to go with an xcon and the soundstream amp and i was told on here its a good amp. but decided on a 2 sub set up with a little less power because i couldnt afford the electrical upgrades needed for that much power like u were saying |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 64 Registered: Apr-11 | @ millz , joe s has more experience at this than i do so he'll give better advice, kinda like i realized my mistake when i said run them together paralell in series i just figured out series was the term for hooking up dvc's opposite of paralell. so i probly didnt make too much sense in what i was saying sorry about that but running them paralell was what i meant. |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 3 Registered: May-11 | Ok so I am not upgrading my 01 impalas electrical system lol and would bridging them to a 2ohm load and using a SOUNDSTREAM RUB2.600 600 W 2-CHANNEL AMPLIFIER work? I'm not trying to compete or even shake my car off the road so a little under power doesn't matter to me. Any thoughts? |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 4 Registered: May-11 | Yes those are the subs I'm using by the way. I'm new to this so how can something at 4 ohms get all the way down to 1? |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 945 Registered: Jun-06 | D Loco, I can't say I have bench tested any of the new Hifonics Amplifiers lately so I'll have to take your word that they have actually improved their product over the past few years. What I stated above was the golden rule everyone used when buying a Hifonics amplifier about 3-5 years ago. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 946 Registered: Jun-06 | millz, the only way you are going to get a 2Ohm Load on the Subwoofer you have is if you only use one Subwoofer. It's not the amplifier that creates the Load, it's the way the Subwoofers are wired. Let me break this down for you so you will understand. The Pioneer TS-W2502D4 that you have a Dual Voice Coil 4Ohm Subwoofers. If you wire just one of these Subwoofers in Parallel, you will running a 2Ohm Load. The formula I used to know this goes as followed: 4 (the Ohm ) Divided by 2 (the Number of Voice Coils) = 2 (Overall Load) With that said, if you wire up both of your Pioneer Subwoofers in Parallel, which are each 2 Ohm Loads, you will be creating a 1Ohm Load. In a sense, it's just basic math. If by any chance that has confused you at all, you can use this web site to help calculate your Ohms: http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/woofer_configurations.asp |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 5 Registered: May-11 | Ok yeah I get you but I don't think you know what I meant. I mean I'm going to bridge each sub by it self and run one sub per channel therefore creating a 2ohm load per channel which keeps it at 2ohms right? Atleast that's what I've heard that since the amp I said is 2 channel and puts out 300 rms per channel at 2ohm so that means I can run 2 channels at 2ohms a piece correct? |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 950 Registered: Jun-06 | Alright, so from what I can understand you are going to be a 2-Channel amplifier and bridge it? If you don't mind me asking, what is the Brand & Model of the amplifier you have? Regardless, when you Bridge a 2-Channel amplifier, what you are doing is converting a 2-Channel amplifier into a Single Channel amplifier which is only going to be able to support a 4Ohm Load, which is not going to be anywhere close to what you need to power those subwoofers. Now don't get me wrong, there are 2-Channel amplifiers out there that can be Bridged into a 2Ohm load. I have posted a link below as an example of this: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33631_Audiobahn-A2300HCJ.html Did you take a look at the price? Now look back at some of the amplifiers I posted above and look at those prices. If at this point you are still being stubborn and want to use a 2-Channel amplifier Bridged, then I would suggest getting rid of the Pioneer Subwoofers and find something more suitable. |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 6 Registered: May-11 | I thank you for trying to help lol but we are on different pages. I want to run each sub in parrallel I guess? Basically each sub has 2 pos and 2 neg so bridge or whatever you call it the 2 pos to make one wire and same with negative then connect that to one channel on the amp therefore causeing a 2ohm load and doubling the power. Then do the same with the other sub and other channel therefore each sub gets 600rms since each channel suplies 300 at 2ohms but running the sub in parralel doubles from what I understand. So I'm not bridging the channels together I'm running each sub individually in parralel then connecting each one to its own channel.And its like a Rubicon 2.600 its 600rms and 2 channel and a rubicon soundstream I know that |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 65 Registered: Apr-11 | @ joe s only their brutus amps are cea certified. their other amps are probly still like u said before overrated. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 66 Registered: Apr-11 | @ millz is this your first system? i dont know if u know or not about clipping. but if this is your 1st system people who underpower their subs that much have a tendency to turn their gain up too high and it actually sends clipped signals to ur subs and it destroys the voice coils by overheating them. when u send a clipped signal instead of ur speaker getting clean filtered power from ur amp it gets the power that comes directly of ur battery and its real bad on ur subs coils. there is more technical terms for it but thats layman terms. i understand what ur saying ur trying to do with the wireing of ur subs and a way thats easy to wire ur subs all together in parallel is to wire ur terminals the same way u wire ure subs. 2 + together 2 - together then to ur amp. if ur goin to underpower ur subs i would suggest going no lower than 600 to each. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 67 Registered: Apr-11 | if ur lookin to spend less than 200$ and dont mind underpowering ur subs than look at this amp it'll probly do what u want it too. u'll have to copy and paste it to ur browser cuz i havent figured out how to actually post links. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882326004&cm_re=planet_aud io-_-82-326-004-_-Product this amp says it does 700x2 at 2 ohms but it will probly do a lttle less and u shouldnt have to upgrade ur electrical. this amp probly does around 5 to 600 rms. this is a planet audio amp on newegg.com. i know that planet audio makes decent amps cuz my buddy has 1. and new egg is a good site cuz they offer extended warranties plus ive bought lots of stuff off them. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 952 Registered: Jun-06 | Ok millz, now that I can visually see what you have, I can understand what you are trying to explain. The specs of this amplifier are as followed: 4 ohms: 180 watts x 2 chan 2 ohms: 300 watts x 2 chan 4 ohms: 600 watts x 1 chan (Bridged) If you are to wire each subwoofer individually to one Channel on this amplifier, you WILL be able to generate the 2Ohm Load per Channel, however you will only be sending each subwoofer 300 Watts RMS. Each of your subwoofers are rated for 800 Watts RMS each. Thus, leaving you 500 Watts RMS short per Channel of powering these subwoofers. If you intend on using this amplifier, then you CANNOT use the Bridge feature. The Soundstream RUB2.600 can only handle a 4Ohm Load when being Bridged. If you attempted this, you would most likely end up damaging your amplifier or subwoofers. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 953 Registered: Jun-06 | To D Loco, clipping happens when you overpower a subwoofer, not underpower them. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 69 Registered: Apr-11 | @ joe s this site and most of the audio stores says the most common reason is turning up the gain to high. http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/clipping.html what i was saying is that held might turn the gain too high underpowering them that much i did it with my 1st subs and they went poof! lol. but it was cuz i underpowered them and turned the gain all the way up on my amp. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 956 Registered: Jun-06 | Ah, ok. I see where you're coming from. In all honesty, I didn't even read your whole post. So much to do, so little time :-( However, from what you can see on Glasswolf's site, there are multiple ways where clipping can occure. Theoretically, we are both right coming from two different perspectives :-D |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 7 Registered: May-11 | I thoughyt wiring parrallel caused double the power cause essentially 300rms would double since it would be going into the sub 2 times due to the parralel wiring? Maybe I'm wrong this is my first system and having a good amp is the biggest thing from what I hear. So what soundstream or other good brand should I look into and I want 110ish signal to noise and less than .05 distortion keep in mind. I'm almost to the point of selling out and calling it good lol |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 8 Registered: May-11 | Soundstream RUB1 1600D 1600 Watt Mono Am is this a good ampplifier? It has .5 distortion so that sucks but could I live with that and not damage my sub? Any other suggestion? I am willing to spend some money but not break the bank |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 958 Registered: Jun-06 | There you go millz. That amplifier is much better than the one you posted previously. With this, you can wire both subwoofers in Parallel and create a 1Ohm Load, which will pump out 1600 Watts RMS (if that's accurate). There are a lot better amplifiers out there, but for working on a tight budget, that amplifier should do you justice for now. You can always trade in or buy an upgraded amplifier later :-) |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 9 Registered: May-11 | Nganything around that price you can think of with les distortion? .5 is a crap ton to me. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 959 Registered: Jun-06 | Well millz, for the power your looking for on your budget, your going to have to make some sacrafices. If you are willing to spend $350+ on an amplifier, there are a lot more options available at that point. Because this is your first time around the audio world I want you to remember this quote, "you get what you pay for". Now I'm not saying that the more expensive an item is, the better it is, but you have to understand the value of what a good and bad items are. If you ever have doubts about an amplifier or subwoofer, go look up reviews, ask questions, see what else is available in its range, and if you have an audio store in your area, go out and actually see the components in person and try them out. |
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New member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 10 Registered: May-11 | Well. I'm not really on a budget I mean I've got some money in this and as long as I don't have upgrade my cars electronic system I'm fine. So what amps would you suggest at 350? Or would they all require an upgrade? |
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Bronze Member Username: Kmillz2525Post Number: 11 Registered: May-11 | What do you think of any of these? Boston Acoustics GT-2300 1400W RMS, GT Reference Series 2-Channel Amp. Boss NX2000.2 3000W. Power Acoustik BAMF-4000/1D(BAMF4000/1D) 4000W Max, Class D Monoblock BAMF Series Amp and only going to 2ohms. My favorite so far is the last one its clean and powerfull and over powers by about 50 per sub at 2ohms so I could run in parrallel and series together to only get 2ohm not 1 right? Let me know what you think |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 961 Registered: Jun-06 | After doing some research, I found out that the best amplifier to match what your looking for and at a decent price, would be the Hifonics Brutus BRZ1700.1D. If you really want to get a high quality amplifier, then I would suggest looking into the Audioque AQ2200D that I posted above. It's is more expensive, but it outclasses the Brutus in every way possible. After serveral days, it seems like you are finally understanding what type of amplifier you will be needing. With that done, now lets move on to the electrical system. To make this as simple as possible for you, any time you will be using an amplifier that will be drawing out 1000+ Watts RMS, you should consider upgrading your electrical system in your vehicle. The most common thing that is done is called "The Big 3 Upgrade". This involves upgrading your alternator, battery, and wiring to 0 Gauge. So just to give you a rough estimate on what you can be looking to spend on electrical upgrades, I am currently running a system that draws 1200 Watts RMS. I spent $280 on a 200 Amp HO Alternator, $100 on running 0 Gauge Wiring throughout my car and $200 on an improved Battery. Since I did all the work myself, I did not have any other expenses than this. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 71 Registered: Apr-11 | a lot of other forums said that the soundstream rubicon 1600.1 d was better than that brutus. the brz 1700.1 was the amp i was originally thinkin of getting till i read those forums. plus with the brz it has no internal fusing it needs an external 160 amp fuse. i have yet to find a 160 amp fuse. the soundstream has 4 40 amp fuses internally. i'm not sure if this matters or not. but that soundstream is 229.99 on new egg. free shipping |
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Bronze Member Username: Dloco486Post Number: 73 Registered: Apr-11 | i found 1 website that said the brz's distortion was either .1 or .01 but cant remember where i seen it. but it's funny that maxxsonics or hifonics dont list the thd for this amp. |
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Silver Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 963 Registered: Jun-06 | Well at this point, the decision is yours on what amplifier to get. If it was up to me, id go with the audioque aq2200d. I would spend the extra money knowing I'm getting a better quality product. |
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New member Username: EihtnnDgaeg, California ÃÀ¹ú Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-11 | Where is good amplifier?Who knows?Does anyone know the amplifier?So cheap ,so practical?I don't have sense of it,only know it is quite cheap ,high quality and price.http://s8.hk/1vtt |
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Gold Member Username: KaerfplSpencerport, NY USA Post Number: 1071 Registered: Jun-06 | eihtnn han, that has nothing to do with this thread. Please don't fill up already finished threads with Spam. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Caraudio4lifeClovis, CA USA Post Number: 44 Registered: Nov-10 | ur confused on wiring still, go on rockforfosgate.com and go to wiring wizard, you fill questions about your voice coils and it shows you outcomes for wiring, 1 4 ohm dvc sub will give ether 8 ohm or 2 ohm load 2 4 ohm dvc subs will give 4 ohm or 1 ohm load. hope this helps. get a cheap hifonics 1 ohm stable amp whatever is most willing to pay, should satisfy ur standards wihout upgrading electrical, i wouldnt have any standards towards amps thd or signal to noise ratio if ur not gonna upgrade ur electrical in your case, |