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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-10 | I have (in the past) always liked the sound of a properly sized box housing a 12. I recently had to shove my Kicker Comp12 in a approx. 1 cu ft box and its not enough. At this point I can buy a more compatible 12" sub (looking at shallow mount RF or Alpine), or I could buy a new box and throw a 10" sub in it. Question is? Which will sound closer to what I like? A 12 in a really small box, or a 10 in a bigger box? Sub is currently being driven by a Bazooka P450 that is putting out a rated 168w bridged at 4 ohm, I know its a bit on the weak side so if I have to upgrade I will, I would gladly take some opinions on that. Budget is pretty important to me. Thanks everyone |
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Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan13Northern VA Post Number: 12036 Registered: Jul-06 | A 10" in a proper sized box will be better suited for you than a 12" in a box that is too small for it. What's your budget and goals for the system? |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks for the quick response. Well, I need to replace my deck, so looking at the Kenwood Excelon x994 for about $250 10" shallow mount subs are about $100, but then I would also have to replace my box. Attrend makes a box that fits perfectly for $70 shipped. (2000 GMC Sierra Ext Cab 4 door) I would probably have to stall at that point, but looking at the box wizard on the RF website I am right at midway point for power at 168w. Not sure if the Bazooka amps are under rated, but I think they are a bit. |
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Silver Member Username: CenusPost Number: 251 Registered: Aug-08 | a 10 in a good box will sound better than 12 in a crappy box period. |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 3 Registered: Dec-10 | I was afraid of that, but what if I am buying one of the newer 12's? For example, the RF website recommends for the P3SD212 a 1.0cuft box with .6 being the min recommended size. I should easily be in that range with that type of sub, so I really wanted to how the 12 designed for the smaller box will compare to the 10 in an also small box. Either way I am looking for comparisons to what I know I like and what I have not experienced recently. I am not trying to compare a 12 in a crappy box to a 10 in a good box, I know enough to know the answer to that question. My last "big" system was 2 spl 12's driven by a Fosgate Punch 60 and it slammed IMO. Ive been to the SPL contests and I was obviously no contender, but it suited my needs very well and I had no complaints about it. Thanks for the feedback guys, just wanted to clarify some things. |
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Silver Member Username: CenusPost Number: 252 Registered: Aug-08 | yes if the 12 is designed to work in a small box then it should work in your system well. i was just stating that a 12 desinged for a 'regular" sized box in a box too small compared to a 10 in a box built to specs would be pointless to compare. also your bazooka amp is probally overrated if anything. bazooka isn't a good brand, id say decent at best. |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 4 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks Dustin, appreciate the info. So for now I only need to replace the sub which leaves me some cash to spend on an amp. I thought the older Bazooka's were decent, but I guess you disagree. What can I get for around $100-$150 on fleabay? Lanzar Opti Scion's any good, I know they were bought out awhile back. Phoenix Gold? Crunch? Any recommendations on a shallow small box sub, or is RF still good? So much has changed in the last decade, lol. , |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16321 Registered: Jun-04 | those brands arent that good |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16322 Registered: Jun-04 | heres a good one in your price range http://cgi.ebay.com/ROCKFORD-FOSGATE-PRIME-R500-1-AMP-500W-/120660999977?pt=Car_ Amplifiers&hash=item1c17f4bf29 |
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Silver Member Username: CenusPost Number: 256 Registered: Aug-08 | ya id check hifoincs or mtx for cheap but good quality amps or you could splurge an get a kicker or sundown amp. my favorite shallow mount sub is a stereo integrity mag v4 very good sq driver but kinda hard to find. |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 276 Registered: Oct-10 | Marcus, you are the worst name-dropper ever! Be around the likes of kicker, memphis, Sundown, PowerAkoustik is not best, but aint that bad. RF high end is decent |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16324 Registered: Jun-04 | http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-MRPM500-CAR-AUDIO-POWER-AMP-AMPLIFIER-FITS-FORD-/3603 27520293?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item53e531a025 |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16325 Registered: Jun-04 | cheaper here http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013TQ6FK |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 5 Registered: Dec-10 | Sorry guys, some of those brands used to be pretty good... back in the day. I will look at some of those recommendations and also came across this list in the amp subsection of the forum. http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/goodbadugly.html I am surprised to see that RF amp on there, saw that one on ebay but assumed its priced meant it was no good. Ive got an old Punch 60ix and 40ix that are in my 68 Camaro thats been grounded for awhile now, but the 60 needs repairs, wonder how much that would cost. There's a local shop here selling an older Eclipse 4Chan for $100, they claim 200w per channel RMS, but I am guessing its peak. Could be wrong, but I am worried about how much that things been used/abused. Is used a bad idea? The only amp I have ever had fail was that Punch 60, but it was driven pretty hard too. Sean, I was hoping to stay with a 4ch amp if possible. I know its not exactly recommended so I may reconsider. Thanks everyone, very helpful forum. |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 7 Registered: Dec-10 | Wow, the Hifonics stuff is really reasonable, thanks everyone. |
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Silver Member Username: Lord_huggingtonOntario Canada Post Number: 178 Registered: Oct-10 | Checkout SoundSolutionsAudio's DCON 10". 300W RMS efficiency 86.6dB mouting depth 6" xmax 16mm 1.25 cubes ported optimal $100 You sure you need shallow-mounts? |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 8 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks Lord, however, that would require a new box thats larger than what I could comfortably accomidate. I think I will stick a 12 and use the savings to get a new amp. Ive got a pair of MB Quart 6 1/2 seperates in my classic car also, they have been sitting for quite some time, but the car has always been in the garage. Would it be worth using them, or will they have deteriorated by now? They have been sitting for probably 10 years. Vintage amps = cool, vintage speakers=? |
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Silver Member Username: Lord_huggingtonOntario Canada Post Number: 181 Registered: Oct-10 | They should be fine. My Alero speakers are 10 years old and I abuse them. They don't just crumble after 10 years. |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 9 Registered: Dec-10 | Sorry, most of the stuff have I purchased has gone with the cars as they have been sold, or not worth keeping. Thanks Lord |
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Gold Member Username: DeadrabitMarionville, MO Post Number: 2603 Registered: Jun-07 | watch out... some of those hifonics amps are over rated... but some are ok |
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New member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 10 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks dBlk, but how am I supposed to know if they are over rated or not? Been really considering the Alpine mono suggested above, are those under rated? Lord, I do not NEED a shallow mount as my current box fits my Kicker Comp 12, but I was thinking a shallow mount would have less displacement thereby effectively making my box bigger. Right? |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 294 Registered: Oct-10 | Bottom line: It takes space to make bass. MOre space more low bass. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16351 Registered: Jun-04 | Lord, I do not NEED a shallow mount as my current box fits my Kicker Comp 12, but I was thinking a shallow mount would have less displacement thereby effectively making my box bigger. Right? not enough to worry with |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 11 Registered: Dec-10 | So lets say I get that Alpine linked above. It runs 500w at a 2ohm load, I should get a dual 4ohm sub and run them in parallel configuration to achieve the 2 ohm load. Is that correct? |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 12 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks sean, think I will end up going with your suggestion on the amp. Now I need to decide on a sub that will work well in a small box, without breaking the bank. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16357 Registered: Jun-04 | what are your box dimensions |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 13 Registered: Dec-10 | I dont have the exact dimensions at the moment, but plugged it into a calculator online and it said it was 1 cu ft even. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16361 Registered: Jun-04 | ok thats what we needed...do you know the depth internal |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16362 Registered: Jun-04 | is the box sealed or ported |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 296 Registered: Oct-10 | Kicker CVT is pretty nice from what I have witnessed. shallow mount |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 14 Registered: Dec-10 | I will have to check max depth, its not much though. Box is 8" - 5" slanted, 5/8" thick mdf and sealed |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16373 Registered: Jun-04 | ok |
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Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 153 DBs ...Trinidad & T... Post Number: 16832 Registered: Jul-05 | is it a shallow sub or a regular sub u need ? ... |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16378 Registered: Jun-04 | looks like shallow if hes using the existing box |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 15 Registered: Dec-10 | center of the box would be 6 1/4, at that point it would depend on how wide the magnet was on where to measure depth. My guess would be a fairly basic low end model that is not shallow mount, or a shallow mount. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16401 Registered: Jun-04 | your looking at a shallow mount there |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16402 Registered: Jun-04 | http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-TS-SW3001S4-12-SHALLOW-MOUNT-SUBWOOFER-NEW-/26070946 0331?pt=Car_Subwoofers_Enclosures&hash=item3cb37ea96b |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16403 Registered: Jun-04 | Mounting Depth: 3-1/4" |
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Silver Member Username: CenusPost Number: 272 Registered: Aug-08 | http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=47 if you can find one or the mag v4 |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 16 Registered: Dec-10 | Really? Pioneer? I am surprised by that. Dustin, your recommendation is not even available for pre order at this time. |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 17 Registered: Dec-10 | Is that Alpine amp under rated under enough to compensate for only being able to wire it up as a 4ohm load (300w rms)? I know that small enclosures really eat up the power, so thats my only concern. That sub gets a lot of great reviews. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16421 Registered: Jun-04 | opps i thought lt was a 2 ohm version |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 304 Registered: Oct-10 | http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-KICKER-CVT12-12-1600W-Car-Audio-Slim-Subwoofers-/350411 945870?pt=Car_Subwoofers_Enclosures&hash=item51962df78e You will like these better. they are bombs. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16428 Registered: Jun-04 | he will be right on the minimum box size with that Sealed Box Volume 1.0 - 4.6cu. ft. |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 18 Registered: Dec-10 | OK, so basically I think these are my options. All run at 2 ohm either because they are dual 4 or single 2's, and all will fit in my box. There are other shallow mounts, like Alpine's, but the suggested box size is bigger than what I can do. Rockford Fosgatehttp://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9157_Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-P3SD412-Shallow- mount.html Kickerhttp://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_21921_Kicker-CVT122-10CVT122.html MTXhttp://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13545_MTX-Audio-TT6512-02.html Pioneer - 2 Ohm version of the one Sean suggestedhttp://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29557_Pioneer-TS-SW3001S2.html MB Quarthttp://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_19606_MB-Quart-RLP-304.html What would you guys recommend from these choices, unless I am missing something. Thanks and Merry Christmas. |
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Silver Member Username: PerfectcircleNaptown, Indy Post Number: 264 Registered: Feb-10 | Marcus, don't know if someone mentioned it. but if you are looking for an amplifier repair place. try amp repair center. the are in ohio. i shipped an old ss 302 to them and they went through it fixed everytthing and had it back me in 2 days. really nice guys. was 70 bucks for everything. had a blown power supply. call them and they will quote you over the phone. mine was even 20 dollars cheaper then they quoted. they could definitly fix your punch 60. i had the same amp back in the day. mid 90's. love old school rf stuff. hate to see you scrap it. i think the punch 60 is good for 200 to 250 watts. "cheater amps" back in the day. |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 19 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks Pike, I just looked at the birth sheet (yes I am a pack rat) and it is rated at 132w RMS per channel, manual says 260 bridged, so yeah, not bad at all. |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 20 Registered: Dec-10 | Actually found this Alpine sub too, small box, dual 2, cheap though. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9332_Alpine-SWS-1223D.html |
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Silver Member Username: PerfectcircleNaptown, Indy Post Number: 265 Registered: Feb-10 | No problem. hope you decide to fix it. haven't had mine in years. if not i will buy it from you. |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 21 Registered: Dec-10 | My pack rattiness is failing me at the moment, I cannot seem to locate the Punch 60 but I found the 40 where I thought they would both be. Im sure its somewhere, just cannot image where I would have placed it. |
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Silver Member Username: PerfectcircleNaptown, Indy Post Number: 266 Registered: Feb-10 | let me know if you want to sell it. any idea whats the matter with it? you can email me if you prefer. pike110@live.com. if you want to sell. is it the black almost oval shaped amp (with the end caps on) red rf on the top and white punch 60 on the bottom? |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 22 Registered: Dec-10 | No idea, and yes its as you described. |
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Silver Member Username: CenusPost Number: 275 Registered: Aug-08 | out of the subs you listed id probally take the kicker. |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 313 Registered: Oct-10 | I will ramain sided with......myself haha. I don't know much about the other subs, but I have heard the cvt and was in disbelief that they were what they were. |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 23 Registered: Dec-10 | Thanks all, guess I will give the CVT's a chance. Price is certainly right, as are the other specs. They really are ugly though, I have to say. Anyone know if my old grill will work with these newer models? http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-G12-12-ROUND-SUBWOOFER-SPEAKER-GRILL-G12-NEW-/250748139438?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a61c0f7ae |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16443 Registered: Jun-04 | good choice that will get loud |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 320 Registered: Oct-10 | The cvt cone kinda juts out. not sure if it will clear the cvr grilles. did you get the grilles? |
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Bronze Member Username: Arcsum68Post Number: 24 Registered: Dec-10 | No, I have the older version, but I am not sure I really need the grill anyway. The box is under the rear seat and pretty well protects the sub anyway. |
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Silver Member Username: MakinblakMonroe/Monticello, La/Ar Post Number: 339 Registered: Oct-10 | Let us know how you like it, how it sounds |