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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 3 Registered: Oct-10 | nevermind the brands I am stuck with, sure it matters but is moot... All I really need is a set of specific dimensions for any sealed bandpass box for a pair of 10" subs, alowing just under 2 cu/ft of volume I will make the dimensiond sucumb to my needs, but what should the volume of the sealed chamber, that the woofers face into be, to give me the best overall sound, don't worry about sounding like you are explaining this to a three year old, you wont hurt my feelings! } |
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Gold Member Username: RideredderCornell, IL USA Post Number: 1949 Registered: Sep-05 | Never heard of a sealed bandpass box before. |
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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 4 Registered: Oct-10 | I think I understand that the "box" holding the driver can be sealed, and the "chamber the woofer "plays" into is vented/ported? |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana Team Audible... Post Number: 8306 Registered: Mar-04 | Post the full T/S parameters of your sub. I'll see what I can come up with. Just like I posted in the other thread. |
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Silver Member Username: PerfectcircleNaptown, Indy Post Number: 173 Registered: Feb-10 | Canaan knows his stuff. just post the t/s specs and he can give you everything you need. if you don't have the paperwork from when the subs were new, you can get them online. |
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Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15488 Registered: Jun-04 | You need those parameters to make a proper box |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 13898 Registered: Dec-03 | he wants a 4th order box. |
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Platinum Member Username: Nd4spd18Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 11452 Registered: Jul-06 | Bandpass boxes are very hard to get right, and usually give no benefit over a regular ported box. But if anyone can do it it's canaan. |
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Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15515 Registered: Jun-04 | x2 |
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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 5 Registered: Oct-10 | waiting on "full T/S parameters" from dual but it is a holiday in the states today, so who knows when they will answer...i WILL PROBABLY JUST have to take the mean of several such boxes on the market and adapt them to my aplication, and hope for the best... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 13905 Registered: Dec-03 | BAD idea. Just google the make and model of sub, or check Duel's website for the specs. Geez, it's not that hard to find T/S specs. They should hace come with the sub. |
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Silver Member Username: PerfectcircleNaptown, Indy Post Number: 183 Registered: Feb-10 | Glass, I was just giving you praise for being patient and open minded with people. I'm getting the impression you are getting a little upset with op. lol. |
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Gold Member Username: DuckaShelby Twp., MI United States Post Number: 1544 Registered: Jan-08 | IMO Dual brand subwoofers are not worth the effort of building a bandpass box. Just put them in a proper sealed or ported box. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 13909 Registered: Dec-03 | It's just so easy to get TS specs on drivers these days with the internet and all. He should easily be able to google and find them. I'm surprised, if he got these new, that they weren't on a sheet in the box with the subs. I don't have any iddue with the OP, I just fear him trying to blindly build a 4th order box. It's not nearly as dangerous as trying this with a 6th order, but he'll hve no idea at all what the box response will be, without doing the calculations. OP, try downloading winISD (google it. free box building software) and when you get the specs for the sub, plug them in and play with sealed and ported enclosure voluems based on teh DIYsubwoofers link I gave you earlier for a starting point on what you need to know to get started. Other option is give us the TS numbers -or- the make and model and coil configuration (dual 4 ohm? single 2 ohm?) for your subs and one of us can design the box for you. 4th order is nice in that it masks harmonic distortion, basically by baffling it within the enclosure, but the trade-off with a 4th order is that the flatter and more natural the response curve, the less output gain you get from using a bandpass box, so if you want a lot of output from it, you have to tune the box high, like 55-65Hz, which gets hella gain, but sounds like a bad case of gas. If you tune low, say, 34-40Hz, you don't get much gain from the box, at which point you're basically building an overly big sealed box with a narrower output band. 4th order will also require a more intricate crossover network to get the right effect from it than a straigh 2nd or 3rd order enclosure. |
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Silver Member Username: PerfectcircleNaptown, Indy Post Number: 184 Registered: Feb-10 | Glasswolf, i wish i had a third of your knowledge... do you have a degree? if so in what and from where? i graduated from indiana university. just wondering how you learned everything? |
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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 6 Registered: Oct-10 | are these "t/s parameters" ? * 10" SUBWOOFER * SENSITIVITY: 87dB * FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 30Hz-125Hz * NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 4ohms * PEAK POWER HANDLING: 400 WATTS * RMS POWER RANGE: 150 WATTS * VOICE COIL SIZE: 2" * MAGNET SIZE: 24oz |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 13957 Registered: Dec-03 | Petey, these are the Thiele Small specs: http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/thielesmall.html I have degrees in electrical engineering and English, and 20+ yers experience. there are plenty of folks who know more than I do though. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15168 Registered: Jan-08 | Great informative work Glasswolf refering to your site! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 13960 Registered: Dec-03 | thanks. Petey, what is the make and model of the sub? with that, I can find the TS specs online for you. |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana Team Audible... Post Number: 8314 Registered: Mar-04 | If the brand sub you have doesn't post T/S specs...there are 2 probable answers. A) You have a very high end sub that is custom built and T/S will totally change based on what custom version you have. B) Junk sub w/ bullchit ratings and information. I call em like I see em... |
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Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15623 Registered: Jun-04 | haha |
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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 7 Registered: Oct-10 | these then? Brand Dual Model XS10/DS10 Nom. diamerer [inch] 10 Nominal diameter Vas [Liters] 38.1 Equivalent volume Qts 0.65 Total Q-factor Qes 0.72 Electrical Q-factor Qms 6.9 Mechanical Q-factor Fs [Hz] 38 Resonance Frequency Sensitivity [dB] 87 SPL dB at 1W, 1m Max Power [W] 400 Maximum input power Lower freq [Hz] 30 Lower usable limit Upper freq [Hz] 125 Upper usable limit xmax [mm] 6.5 Max excursion from center at normal operation max xmax [mm] 12 Extreme excursion length causing damage Moving mass [g] 90.5 Weight of moving parts Disp area [cm2] 312 SD, Effective piston area of cone Coil diameter [mm] 50.8 Diameter of the voice coil Cms [mm/N] 0.22 The stiffness of the driver's suspension Magnet weight [oz] 24.2 Weight of the magnet Re [ohm] 3.2 DC resistance L [mH] 1.78 Inductance of coil Bl [Tm] 9.5 Magnetic strenth Outer diam. [mm] 245.4 Total outer diameter / width Nr of bolts [Nr] 8 Number of bolts Cutout [mm] 218.4 Cut out diameter / hole size Weight [Kg] 2.5 Net weight of complete driver Height [mm] 106.7 Height of driver, if different from diameter / width Depth [mm] 101.6 Depth behind mounting plane |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 13971 Registered: Dec-03 | yes, those!!! |
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Silver Member Username: TedsprogzNunya, Florida US Post Number: 112 Registered: Aug-05 | hahahaha |
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Silver Member Username: CanaanwhiteMonroe, Louisiana USA Post Number: 150 Registered: Nov-10 | You ever get your box built ? Petey |
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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 8 Registered: Oct-10 | no... because with all the effort y'all invested to list all kinds of ts pars. then when you agreed on some you never whent on to give rough box dimensions, for the sealed box for the two 10" subs with vented space volumes or openings... thanx anyway |
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Silver Member Username: CenusPost Number: 205 Registered: Aug-08 | 24oz magnet? wtf wow thought the 60oz on my crappy 18's were small. genrall idea for a box try 2.5 cf ported tuned to 35hz using a single 4inch pvc port for both. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14174 Registered: Dec-03 | magnet weight doesn't man much. the magnet field strength can vary greatly based on the material used in the magnet. you need to look at the BL of the driver. Inever suggested box ideas because I thought someone else was taking that part. |
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Gold Member Username: TejcurrentPost Number: 2596 Registered: Apr-07 | Honestly, not being an dk about it, but why would anyone design a box for free? I used to, I'd spend an hour or two a night helping people out with free designs, but I rarely got even a thank you. Best example- I did a design for a friends 2 15s, ported, made a 3d rendering, did the math by hand to ensure accuracy, and gave him a cut list and said cut these boards and screw together. He shows up a week later with some crap he cut out of particle board with a jigsaw- a mockery of my design with different dimensions and a different port configuration. Totally fking different, because it was easier to make, then he would ask me questions about how he could make it louder. I told him to build the box I designed. He came up with a prefab box and said it sounded better than the "one I designed", and I told him because the sides were all touching each other. Why not pay someone who knows what they're doing to build the box right, because normally if you can't design the box you can't build it right. That 'friend' irritated me to the point where I will never do a free design for anyone who hasn't bought something like a sub from me. It's not worth my time- go ask a shop for a free design and see what they charge. Guys like boxman on this forum know what they're doing and deserve to get paid for their work. I don't mind helping but it seems no good deed goes unpunished, and maybe 1 in 10 people actually build the box. |
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Gold Member Username: Gcs8Atlanta, Ga Post Number: 1598 Registered: Sep-09 | "Guys like boxman on this forum know what they're doing and deserve to get paid for their work. I don't mind helping but it seems no good deed goes unpunished, and maybe 1 in 10 people actually build the box." think you mean bassman, there troy. i have built every design he has done for me but maybe i just don't suck as a person. |
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Gold Member Username: TejcurrentPost Number: 2597 Registered: Apr-07 | I'm not talking about you -no offense intended and yes I meant bassman but I was really tired and mistyped (12-16 hour work days every day do that lol). I've wasted a lot of time trying to be helpful, and had the person figuratively spit in my face with what they actually made. I don't expect everyone to build a perfect box, I don't myself, but man when I saw this one guy drive up with this box with 1/4" gaps at the seams and a different port than I designed. Also only about 1/2 of the port opening was usable as he hadn't finished using a sawzall to cut the port opening. It was awful, I mean it looked like he was trying to cut it like a jack-o-lantern. I've had this happen multiple times, and it wouldn't be so discouraging if I wasn't doing the designs for free to help out. I put a lot of time into helping people, and the negative experiences far outweigh the positive unfortunately. |
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Gold Member Username: Gcs8Atlanta, Ga Post Number: 1603 Registered: Sep-09 | does that mean i will never get a random design from you one day? |
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New member Username: PeteypleezPost Number: 9 Registered: Oct-10 | so no.I could offer y'all a place to vent, over ingrates, I can only promise, not that I can be heald to it over cyberspace, that any design I am given shall be maticulously crafted from solid Berch or 2cm part. brdm And after I sample yhe boom, I wiould give my report. Since a cut list is lit. insane to expect, I never would, just rouph volumes and dimensions for a double 10" sealed B-pass box, pleez T.i.a. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14175 Registered: Dec-03 | Take the TS specs you finally managed to find, and go to www.bcae1.com Now find the page on the right hand side menu that's called "Basic enclosure calculators" and use that, with your specs, to get your box. You have all of the tools you need. You just need to apply them. Yeah there is a reason I don't waste hours of my time anymore doing box designs for free, too. Much like why I try to avoid recommending specific brands or models of gear to people. It just leads to arguments,. this page will also be of assistance to you: http://www.diysubwoofers.org/bnd/4thorder.htm |
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Silver Member Username: CanaanwhiteMonroe, Louisiana USA Post Number: 231 Registered: Nov-10 | There are lots of box calculators online that will help you |
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Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15817 Registered: Jun-04 | re box calculator is one of them |