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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 11 Registered: Mar-10 | I have a 2000 pontiac bonneville and i want to put a system into my trunk. im running on a budget of around $400 at the most. i was wondering what is a goood system (subs and an amp) for my budget. Also, i dont want to be having to buy an extra battery or alternator and i dont want to risk ruining my alternator. If anyone can help me itd be greatly appreciated!! Thx! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12788 Registered: Dec-03 | with that budget and those stipulations, here is your option: buy an Infinity basslink or SAS amplified bazooka tube, along with an 8 gauge amp wiring kit from www.knukonceptz.com and connect the self-amplified sub to your factory stereo. enjoy! |
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Silver Member Username: Simple_smithLapeer, Michigan United States Post Number: 379 Registered: Dec-08 | Kicker CVR 15 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8364_Kicker+07CVR154.html Audioque 1200d http://www.audioque.com/aq/?page_id=26 (currently out of stock) Thats a total of 390....but you still need to buy wiring, sub box, Possibly Head unit. So a little over your $400 budget, but still a very solid budget system. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12791 Registered: Dec-03 | $40-50 for a 4 gauge wiring kit, $50-200 for the sub box (if he wants one that isn't total crap), and $200+ for a new head unit, and hope he doesn't have a factory system like BOSE etc that uses proprietary amplifier/speaker setups requiring him to replace every speaker in the car, or spend another $100+ on an adapter from a company like PAC to interface line level outputs to an amplified factory system. That's more than a little over-budget there. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 12 Registered: Mar-10 | I currently have the alpine cda105 aftermarket head unit in my car. I know that my car is factory amplified but I didn't bother paying $100+ for a wiring harness so it doesn't ding anymore and what not bur idc about that so. As far as a box goes the guy installing mine is going to build either a dual ported or 2 single ported boxes for me built to the specs of my subs. Right now I'm waiting on a reply from the atomic loud speakers site on 2 12" atomic manhattan ma12d subs. I also waiting for him to reply on his class d 1000.1 amp as well. I have hears great things aboutthese subs...any feedback on them? Can anyone also tell me if putting a system in that will need 1000 + watts from an amp will ruin my alternator? y |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 13 Registered: Mar-10 | The boxes will be plexiglass of that helps at all. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12796 Registered: Dec-03 | If you're unwilling to spend the $300 or so for a high output alternator, then I wouldn't bother trying to run 1000+ watts RMS from that amp in your car. You're going to get dimming lights, and you're going to overstress the stock charging system. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-10 | No I plan on putting in another amp to fit w/e the subs need the factory amplified is just staying for my speakers and that's it. That being said will it risk ruining my alternator? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12799 Registered: Dec-03 | >class d 1000.1 amp 1000WRMS on a class D is 100A of current by itself. This, combined with the fact that most factory alternators are 50-70A (and only have about 20A to play with over the needs of the car itself) you're not going to pull that off without a high output alternator without running into problems. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 15 Registered: Mar-10 | Will using a 1 farad capacitor help so I won't need a new alternator/ruin mine? Several ppl who work on cars for a living have told me it'll make a big diff. Also instead of a capacitor will using a seperate battery for the system work? I'm just trying to figure out my options. And if I decide to go less than 1000 watts will 1 12" aq street duty sub or 1 12" atomic manhattan ma12d sub be loud/vibrate good? |
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Platinum Member Username: Nd4spd18Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 11037 Registered: Jul-06 | Well lets see here.. "Will using a 1 farad capacitor help so I won't need a new alternator/ruin mine?" No "Several ppl who work on cars for a living have told me it'll make a big diff." Stop listening the those people. right away. "Also instead of a capacitor will using a seperate battery for the system work?" It would work until the battery runs out of juice when the alternator can't charge it fast enough. IMO, what to do is install that amp and see if you run into problems. You may or may not depending on how heavy you play it. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 16 Registered: Mar-10 | Ok. I bought my car off of someone a few years ago so it wasnt brand new. For all I know it could have an ho alternator in it... Prob not bur who knows. How could I check that out? And also I'd like to know if 1 12" aq sd or 1 12" atomic ma12d will vibrate good and what not. Mind you I have a large trunk. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12804 Registered: Dec-03 | http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/capacitors.html http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/charging.html those two links should explain things, and for what it's worth, I restore classic cars as a hobby, and I'm an electrical engineer. I'm also a certified master installer for mobile electronics with two decades of experience.. if we're discussing resumes. the capacitor only works as a filter. If the charging system in the car can't supply enough current to keep voltage rails stable in the car and the audio system, then it also can't supply enough current to keep the capacitor(s) charged. Caps also can't recharge quickly enough to make a difference when it comes to voltage rails in this sort of application. They do make a nice AC ripple filter though. That's about it. The second battery (isolated) would help if you plan to run the audio system without the engine running. Otherwise, the alternator output voltage above idle is higher than that of the battery, so when the car is running, the battery is in a charging state, and all it really does is act as another filter to stabilize voltage, since the voltage regulator post-alternator isn't the smoothest thing around, and does cause some ripple in the DC voltage. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 17 Registered: Mar-10 | ok that link you posted me about alternators was really helpful im gonna print it off and use that. I know that when im driving and when the car is idle the car is running on around 16 volts from the battery I know this from the battery gauge that is telling me how much i have so. I deffinatly dont doubt your experience and i greatly value people like you on who know what there talking about. too bad your not located in my area or i'd have no prob haha. but ill deff check out my alternator because like i said i bought my car off of someone else a few years back and for all i know there could be an ho alternator already in it. Do you know if ill be able to look at the alternator from under the hood and be able tell what the HOT Reading is? and another thing...what is the hot rating? lol im guessing its what the alternator is able to use after the the car is running? Im not very mechanically inclined so all of this information is very helpful. and also idk how much you know about these subs but would 1 12" aq street duty sub or 1 12" atomic manhattan ma12d sub be what i want from bass? im aware that theres always room to upgrade so thats not the issue im just curios as to what i will get from a single of those 2 subs. they WILL be in a ported box for sure and my plan is to run either 2 or 4 ga wire so. i have an aftermarket stereo with sub crossover and controls. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12811 Registered: Dec-03 | http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/alternator-specification-basics-2532.htm l The above link is a really good post on alternator ratings and specs. It says pretty much what I was going to say but it's already typed out, so.. have at it. haha The glasswolf.net stuff I wrote, so I'm glad it helped. As for the subs, I'm unsure of what you're after, and what sort of space you have to work with. As for single subs, if you go one-sub, I'm a big fan of a single 15" (or larger if you have the money and space and power) a single 15" will take about 3.5cu ft for the enclosure, ported. A typical 15" in a ported box will take anywhere from 500 watts up, depending on the sub, but if you tune the box to about 32-34Hz, it will hit hard, and it will hit deep. You'll love it. I've used just about every combination and configuration of aubs you could imagine, and currently I use a single 18" in my own car, with about 1500WRMS to drive it. My car is aimed at SQ though, not SPL.. but trust me, it still gets plenty loud. a single 12" would be pretty decent, but I fear you'd find yourself wanting more from it within a fairly short amount of time.. so I'd go with 2 12" or a single 15"+ sub. that's just me |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 18 Registered: Mar-10 | Im going to take a look at my alternator later tonight to see what i have to work with..im guessing its fairly good one because like i said im running around 16 volts from the alternator/battery so. But if i take a 15" thats say 600 watts itll hit harder louder and deeper than a single 12" at the same wattage? and yea your right its prob ont what im looking for then. i want to vibrate and be heard and sound good haha. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 19 Registered: Mar-10 | ok so to stay under 1000 watts so i dont have to get a new alternator am i better off running 1 15" kicker comp with 500 peak and 250 continuous with a 600 watt amp or 2 12" kicker comps each doing 300 peak and 150 continuous on an 800 watt amp? like what will be best for my chances of not killing my alternator and for giving me the bass i want? lol im only 17 so. both will be in ported boxes so. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12822 Registered: Dec-03 | first off, I'd double check that voltage output. 16V is very high and typically would damage the electronics in your car at that voltage. Was that at idle? at what RPM? Typically idle voltage should be 12-12.6VDC and above idle, say around 1200-1500RPM it should rise to about 13.8-14.4VDC. Battery voltage with the engine off should read 12.6VDC. The only cars that even use a 16 volt battery are high compression drag cars, and those batteries are designed to boost voltage to charge themselves from a typical battery charger/alternator. As for "what's louder" topics, you need to look at several factors to determine this. It's not a simple answer. 1 sub vs 2 subs (identical make.model) with the same power to one or both (say 300 watts to one, or 150W to each of 2) you gain +3dB adding the second sub. Double the power to one sub will add +3dB as well, so say, going from 300 to 600 watts on a single sub. Now the box also matters, as going sealed to ported will gain you +3 to +5dB too. Now comparing two different subs, you need to look at cone area, excursion (Xmax and Xmag), sensitivity, and BL curve. Even then it's difficult to call it as to which is the better sub. With all of that in mind, also consider that power handling specs of a speaker aren't a measure of anything but a thermal rating of how much heat the voice coil of the speaker can handle without damage. It has nothing at all to do with how loud the speaker can get. Incidentally, increasing power is a very inefficient way to increase output, since double the power is +3dB, and twice the audible volume is +6 to +10dB, which is a tenfold increase in power (the decibel is not a linear scale.) If you have 300 watts going to a speaker and you want to double the volume, you need to feed that driver 3000 watts to accomplish this. The reason for this is that speakers are very inefficient. The mechanical efficiency of a speaker (work in vs work out) is only about 5%. This means for every 100 watts you feed a magnetic transducer, you only get about 5 watts back in "sound." some food for thought. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 20 Registered: Mar-10 | Hmm...I guess what im asking is what is your opinion on the 15" kicker comp and the 2 12" kicker comps. Based on my situation and my desire as far as bass goes what would you suggest going with? like i said ported boxes. |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 21 Registered: Mar-10 | Hmm...I guess what im asking is what is your opinion on the 15" kicker comp and the 2 12" kicker comps. Based on my situation and my desire as far as bass goes what would you suggest going with? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12832 Registered: Dec-03 | two 12" CVRs have more excursion (over 2X as much) and more cone area, so they will be louder than a single 15" They'll just need more space. 5cu ft total versus about 3.5 for a single 15" |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 22 Registered: Mar-10 | alright thx. youve been a huge help for everything thats what im gonna do. if i hadnt talked to you i prob woulda put something in that was 1k+ and i woulda been screwed outta around $300 for an alternator so thank you! |
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Bronze Member Username: JnickPost Number: 23 Registered: Mar-10 | just a quick question what size amp would you reccomend for the 2 12" comps? seeing as a pair there 600 peak and 300 continuous would you say 600 watt or 800 watt? i was thinking 800 but i didnt know if a 600 would be better so. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12837 Registered: Dec-03 | 600-800 is a good range. you really won't hear a difference between 600 and 800, and you won't be putting 800 to the subs continuously with an 800 watts max RMS amp anyway so either is fine. |