Speaker choice
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New member Username: GreengrassEngland Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-09 | I have a Mercedes W124 coupe (1995) and am looking to put some audio in it. At the moment installed are- Sony 6500 HU, JL E6450 amp, Kicker cvr12 sub, Kicker 5.25" comps (in dash), and either Pioneer 2002i (8"), Kicker K57 (5x7) or Kicker R13 tweeters and JL xr650 mids in the back! Im completely lost at what to do. Please help!!!!!!!!  |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfNW, MI USA Post Number: 12293 Registered: Dec-03 | I'd go with a better head unit first. alpine, pioneer premier.. something along those lines. keep the JL amp and CVR12. put the 12" in a good hand built enclosure, ported most likely since a MB has a well sealed trunk. you want the added punch of a ported box to get through that insulation and sound damping. I'd run your rear deck speakers in mono by wiring them together in series on a bridged pair of amplifier channels (8 ohms in series, amp sees 4 ohms when bridged, so same as wiring one speaker to each channel, but with rears in mono, you avoid destroying your soundstage and imaging.) run a good set of components in front, like Focal, DynAudio, or similar on the other pair of channels with a 4 channel amp (front/rear) and you should be set. |
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New member Username: GreengrassEngland Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks for that info...still need some more of your expertise. Yeah will use a ported box for the cvr12 to get the base in.. Will get a better HU at a later date, but at the mo am trying to suss out my speaker options still. 1. I have Kicker ES5.2 comps to go in the front. Can i put them with my Kicker R13 tweeters or shall i use the cheaper tweeters that came wth them. 2. I have made an MDF shelf for the rear, what is the best thing to put in it, i have either Pioneer 2002i (8")(90w rms), Kicker K57 (5x7"), or JL xr650 comps with the Kicker R13 tweeters. 3. I also have a spare 2 channel amp, should i use that for the sub and use the e6450 for just the mids and tweets.. Still learning. Thanks! I know you should not mix and match but i am trying to do it as cheaply as poss as i have spent a lot already thinking i was being clever "Dope".... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfNW, MI USA Post Number: 12306 Registered: Dec-03 | 1: typically I'd stick to the matched tweeter and mid for comps, but give both tweeters a try and see which you prefer on the crossover. Don't try using both together though. keep it simple (KISS approach) 2. for rears, go with a 5.25" or 6.5" midrange speaker, with no tweeters. you want a bandpass crossover 500-5000Hz, with a Q of about 18dB/octave and you want to bridge the amp running those two speakers, and run them in series (mono) to avoid destroying your front stage imaging. see here for more on that: http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/rearfill.html 3. get a 4 channel amp. use one pair of channels for the front comps, and bridge the back pair to run the rear fill speakers. use a mono class D sub amp for the CVR12. sell everything else you won't be using to cover the cost of the additional items you'll need. trust me, in the end you'll be happier with the setup than trying to frankenstein something together with what you have laying around in a xerox box. |
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New member Username: GreengrassEngland Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-09 | How do you know all this!!! Im getting cooked with all this technical wizardry!  The Kicker Es5.2 comps are installed in the dash and sound great. (these should be in parralel i guess). I still want to put some rears in, and think from what you are saying is they should be mids only so not to ruin the sound stage. (these in series and bridged). So shall i get some JL XR650 mids (some on ebay for $70) for the rear and get rid of the Pioneer 2002i (8"), and Kicker K57(5x7) that i was gonna put in!! As im using a 6 channel amp, do i need to run 3rca cables from the HU (JL E6450) I changed the sub box to a ported like you said and it sounds sooooo much better... Thanku |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfNW, MI USA Post Number: 12308 Registered: Dec-03 | with the six channel amp do it like this: channel 1 and 2 - front speakers (left and right, straight wiring) channels 3 and 4 - bridged for the rears in series channels 5 and 6 - bridged for the sub yes wire all six outputs from the head unit RCAs to the amp for front/rear/sub and use the head unit or amplifier (your choice) as the crossover for setting frequencies for each speaker or pair of speakers. I'd set the fronts as high pass, 12 or 1dB slope, at 250Hz rears as bandpass/notch filter, 18dB slope (Q), 500Hz-5KHz sub, low pass, 18dB Q, 60-80Hz range (see what sounds good yes there is a gap between sub and mids, but don't fret over that. the Q roll off will overlap the two anyway and cover that gap. if you set both high and low pass filters to the same point, say 100Hz, you'll get a warm spot there, where both sub and mids hit the same frequencies because the Q point is where they START to roll off. each octave from that point they are your Q factor (18dB or 12dB) quieter.. so a high pass filter at 50dB with a Q of 18dB/octave will be 18dB quieter (approximately four times quieter) at 160Hz, and so on.. I know this stuff because I was a professional installer, and IASCA competitor for years. If you have questions about the recommendations, ask and I can try to explain or simplify this stuff. www.bcae1.com is a great reference site for learning what everything means too. |
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New member Username: GreengrassEngland Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-09 | Have been on the site you gave a link for and its packed with info.. I seem to have a problem with the front components, it seems like the vocals are coming out of the mids and the tweeters aernt doing much. I thought i may have an RCA round the wrong way but it appears correct. If you can give me some starters on sorting this or direct me to a troubleshooting site. It would be much appreciated.  |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfNW, MI USA Post Number: 12327 Registered: Dec-03 | 70% of music is from the midrange speakers anyway, so that's not surprising. you may want to check the crossovers for the components though and make sure they are wired properly and see if the tweeters have a -3dB setting. If so, use the 0dB setting for them so they are not attenuated. |
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New member Username: GreengrassEngland Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-09 | Have put the system in (I know its taken me ages), and it doesnt sound that special. After listening to what you said about sound stage etc i seem to have lost my way a bit. At the moment i have the kicker comps in the front, kicker cvr 12 ported in the trunk, and JL 6450 amp. I had made a shelf for the back and had some Pioneer 8" in it with them turned down lower than the fronts. The bass doesnt sound tight but woolly, and the sound stage ok/ish. How about putting some Kicker SSMB6 mids(cheap on e-bay) in the rear shelf instead of the Pioneers, or put them under the seat (as they are free air) and get some tighter bass that way. How does that sound, good or amm i flogging a dead horse!!!! Thanks for your previous info, its been really helpfull.}} |
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New member Username: JakechillPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-09 | definitly keep the kicker, |
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