So, I'm bout to win $70 off Jntar on Ca.com...
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5662 Registered: Mar-04 | ...from the Mythbusters bet on the treadmill plane flying. I bet him $75 that there is no chance in hell it will fly. So, what should I spend my $ on?  Thinkin bout putting it toward DDC6.5's and saving up some more for em, but that would mean I have to go to the junk yard and get a set of a-pillars to glass for the tweets. |
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Gold Member Username: Tremor1127Fi Post Number: 2546 Registered: Aug-06 | "but that would mean I have to go to the junk yard and get a set of a-pillars to glass for the tweets." and? gotta pay to play, baybeh! |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11567 Registered: Jun-06 | ""...from the Mythbusters bet on the treadmill plane flying." I need more info please. |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5663 Registered: Mar-04 | Info on the Mythbusters thing: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276650 The bet: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277074 |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11573 Registered: Jun-06 | Oh for christ's sake. That guy has 14,000+ posts and he thinks it'll fly??!!! Have fun spending your money Canaan. Why did that even make it to Mythbusters??????? And that one kid said his dad was an aerospace engineer and he said it would fly??? Why is aerodynamics so puzzling to some ppl? |
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Silver Member Username: Philly306BUILT NOT BOUGHT, North carolina Post Number: 633 Registered: Apr-07 | the whole point is air moving across the wing. if its on a treadmill no air is moving across the wing therefore no flight. WOW have fun with your money canaan |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11574 Registered: Jun-06 | " Finally, Adam and Jamie carefully navigate their way through a myth that has baffled everyone from web bloggers to pilots. If a plane is traveling at takeoff speed on a conveyor belt, and the belt is matching that speed in the opposite direction, can the plane take off? Extensive small-scale testing with a super treadmill and a nearly uncontrollable model airplane don't completely resolve the myth, so our flight cadets supersize the myth with help from a willing pilot and his Ultralight flying machine." I'm a tad cofused. Is the plane travelling at takeoff speed above the conveyor only? Meaning a zero "airspeed"? If so there's no wind speed for lift. If the plane is taking off at an "airspeed" above a treadmill the lift is there. Kinda tricky wording. |
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Gold Member Username: RideredderCornell, IL USA Post Number: 1184 Registered: Sep-05 | When are they supposed to do this? That part wasn't on tonights episode. |
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Platinum Member Username: Bestmankind-apem Post Number: 16035 Registered: Oct-05 | dude. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11577 Registered: Jun-06 | Yeah I did't see it either. |
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Gold Member Username: Van_manBoston South, MA Post Number: 3171 Registered: Mar-06 | I think you should donate that money to the families who's loved ones died on planes in the 911 attcks. Or blow it on sex and drugs. |
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Platinum Member Username: Bestmankind-apem Post Number: 16038 Registered: Oct-05 | its a sign canaan. go out and buy 75 lottery tickets. you are bound to win. its your destiny. |
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Silver Member Username: JnoelAIM= j69noel, KY Post Number: 723 Registered: May-07 | hope he pays up |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11590 Registered: Jun-06 | What a freaking let down. You just know the show's producer's are dangling that carrot.  |
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Gold Member Username: JohnfiacA-ToWn, Bangn aint easy ....when u g... Post Number: 3995 Registered: Mar-06 | dont get into lottery chad... last time i bought a ticket.... i was going to buy 5 (2$ tickets) i bought 4.... scratched em... and right after that sombody bought the next ticket that i woulda had... 10000$ winner..... 7-11-21 Bonus (2$ tickets) >.< 10 minutes later at the same store they sold a 7000$ ticket.... |
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Gold Member Username: Andrew571Stillwater/Edmond, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 1315 Registered: Oct-05 | Wasn't the show supposed to come on last night? How did it turn out. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11594 Registered: Jun-06 | Supposed to. The producer said someone posted the wrong air date in the listings. I think I remember reading sometime in late January? Faags. |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5665 Registered: Mar-04 | Yea...and the Mythbusters forums got attacked by angry peoples...lol. Its 'supposed' to air Jan 20th. I upped my bet to $100 I can wait on free money |
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Gold Member Username: FrkkevinResonant Engineering..., Fort Worth... Email Post Number: 4250 Registered: Nov-05 | lmao.. jntar is a good guy.. see him at the local shows a lot |
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Silver Member Username: Jesse59672OKLAHOMA Post Number: 807 Registered: Feb-07 | that's retarded of him thinking that just because the wheels are spinning at takeoff speed. i think they are going to wreck the plane before anything happens |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5666 Registered: Mar-04 | Yea, I see Jntar at shows from time to time too. Usually in Shreveport. He is a good guy, but I'm gonna take his $ Kevin, When is the next comp in your area? |
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Gold Member Username: FrkkevinResonant Engineering..., Fort Worth... Email Post Number: 4252 Registered: Nov-05 | This Sunday in Arlington at Stereo Sound Theres around 5 in Longview Texas starting next years season.. which is closer to you than that Tyler show you went to |
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Gold Member Username: Andrew571Stillwater/Edmond, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 1318 Registered: Oct-05 | BTW the plane WILL take off... im pretty sure. Planes are not driven up to take off speed via wheels... They are brought to speed by engine/propellor... :/ u might need to look around for $100 |
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Bronze Member Username: JntarPost Number: 14 Registered: Jul-07 | Hehe...this was just pointed out to me. I dont feel the need to further my point of view, all the discussion it on the caraudio site. And as i stated...The bet is still on for when it airs. Better have you rcash ready the plane will fly :D |
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Silver Member Username: Super_marioPost Number: 280 Registered: Mar-06 | "BTW the plane WILL take off... im pretty sure. Planes are not driven up to take off speed via wheels... They are brought to speed by engine/propellor... :/ u might need to look around for $100" - You know better than this man. Its true that the wheels dont do anything except allow the plane to move forward. The engine pushes the plane forward and allows air to flow over the wings. When enough lift is created it takes off. Put it like like this if you are running and have a kite it will fly because you created enough air flow to lift the kite. Now if you (the engine) are running at full speed on a tread mill your kite isn't going anywhere now is it. Lift, lift, lift... |
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Gold Member Username: Andrew571Stillwater/Edmond, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 1329 Registered: Oct-05 | mario I don't think you understand. The treadmill is basically obsolete. Plane wheels spin freely unless brakes are applied. It will be as if the plane is taking off on normal ground. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11639 Registered: Jun-06 | I think we all have a giant missunderstanding of what the critia of this experiment is. If the experiment is what I think it is it's a no brainer to me. If a plane, any plane, could take off with a wind speed of zero yet a treadmill speed of let's say 180 mph, then why are there @#$! wings on a plane? Have any of you wondered why an aircraft needs to travel at higher speeds at greater altitudes to maintain flight? Air. Without its' velocity over the wings planes do not fly. The higher up the thinner the air, thus the greater speed needed for the appropriate lift. Just because the track on the treadmill is traveling at 180 doesn't mean there's 180 mph winds flowing over the wings to provide lift. The plane essentially is traveling at 0 mph wind speed, regardless of how fast the treadmill is going. No wind speed, no lift. Why do you think runways are so long? If all a plane needed was the length of the aircraft to takeoff there'd be a plane on every building and mountain top. Just what am I missing here fellas? Seems like a huge part of the equation if you ask me.  |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5668 Registered: Mar-04 | Ok people think about it like this: If a plane was tied down and allow to go to FULL THROTTLE, then the rope was cut...Would is INSTANTLY take off? NO. It would have to get up to speed before taking off. That is basically what is happening on the treadmill. The plane has not air-speed...that means no lift....so, no takey-offy. Also, for all the people talking about aircraft carriers. Why do you think they have steam driven catipults? (Answer, incase you have no physics background: To get up enough airspeed so the plane have enough lift to take off.) Also, why do you think planes take off into a head wind? So they can have a lower land-speed and a higher net air speed. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11641 Registered: Jun-06 | Corret you are sir. I think WE are on the same page but I'm not sure I fully understand the eperiment's criteria. Off the first link: "***UPDATE 2*** Rumor has it the conveyorbeltrunway is 1/4 mile long." WTF is going on with this? |
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Gold Member Username: Andrew571Stillwater/Edmond, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 1331 Registered: Oct-05 | ... canaan and paul.. The plane wheels spin freely.... so ultimately the wheels will be gaiing RPM consitantly - even whil the plane is stationary. So when the plane turns on its propellors and begins to throttle.. the plane HAS to move forward. Theres your air. You aren't looking @ the fact that planes ARE NOT cars - they don't drive via wheels |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5671 Registered: Mar-04 | If the runway is 1/4 mile long, thats prolly just precautionary. So they can match the plane's thust to the treadmills speed without it running off the end. The way I see the myth...the plane is literally sitting still in relation the to ground. But is traveling at take-off speed or above in relation to the treadmill. |
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Gold Member Username: Nyyfan13Fi SSD USA Post Number: 7569 Registered: Jul-06 | When does this air? |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5672 Registered: Mar-04 | Andrizzle, Wanna make a bet |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5673 Registered: Mar-04 | Jan 20th |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11644 Registered: Jun-06 | Then my stance will remain. A plane travelling at a zero airspeed will not take off regardless of the treadmills speed underneath. Even planes on water need wind speed for lift. Wheels have NOTHING to do with lift. If the experiment allows a plane to travel down a runway (treadmill) and GAIN airspeed then yeah, at the right speed it will take off. My confusion is weather or not the plane is stationary over the treadmill or actually traveling OVER a treadmill spinning in the opposite direct. Canaan said it right. Land speed and air speed are two different things. I think alot of ppl didn't perceive this experiment correctly. |
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Silver Member Username: Super_marioPost Number: 283 Registered: Mar-06 | "So when the plane turns on its propellors and begins to throttle.. the plane HAS to move forward." -Thank you, that would mean the plane would be allowed to create lift if it goes fast enough. If i get it correctly, the treadmill will be used to keep the plane stationary,right? Therefore, and only under that condition, the plane can not take off due to the fact that the plane is not moving forward at all. Thus, there will be no flow of air over the wing to create the needed lift. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11645 Registered: Jun-06 | "The way I see the myth...the plane is literally sitting still in relation the to ground. But is traveling at take-off speed or above in relation to the treadmill." That's how I saw it too. Now I think the plane will be allowed to travel down this "runway/conveyor" to gain airspeed while the conveyor is traveling in the opposite direction. With that then the only thing to slow the plane would be the friction on the plane's wheels. I think I screwed up the experiment's interpretation. |
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Gold Member Username: Andrew571Stillwater/Edmond, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 1332 Registered: Oct-05 | Yep. The treadmill doesn't matter Paul. The test is theyre going to place a plane on the runway (treadmill). Then start the treadmill... What will happen is: first: the plane will begin to move backwards with the treadmill (given brakes are applied and friction is there). second: the plane will then turn on its engine while it is still moving backwards and begin to throttle forward. third: the plane begins to overcome the friction of the treadmill and begin to move forward as if the treadmill did not matter at all. fourth: takeoff And no canaan, I dont wanna take ur money! lol ;] |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11647 Registered: Jun-06 | So essentially the plane's wheels will be spinning at approx twice takeoff speed. I'm on the right page now lol.  |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5675 Registered: Mar-04 | Andrizzle, I see what you are saying, but that is not the myth. The myth...as I have read on MANY BOARDS, including Mythbusters, is how I stated it. What you are saying, EX...the plane will move forward, say 2x take-off speed in relation to the treadmill. Yes, it would take off, because it would have 1x needed air-speed to take off. From what I have seen, your version of the myth is not what will be tested. |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5676 Registered: Mar-04 | Oh...lil hint to everyone looking at this myth and not taking sides yet. FORGET ABOUT THE WHEELS! From a physics stand point, this is all about the whole plane's relative speed. Speed in relation to the treadmill will be at or above take-off speed. In relation to the ground (outside of treadmill) will be zero. Thus, no net air-speed. The propeller does not keep the plane in the air, just like a boats propeller does not keep it afloat. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11650 Registered: Jun-06 | Then I'm going to have to watch the show cause I'm with you man if that's the case. Speed in relation to treadmill as opposed to speed as opposed to the ground. My biggest confusion over ALL of this. |
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Gold Member Username: Andrew571Stillwater/Edmond, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 1334 Registered: Oct-05 | ? Isn't there just one myth about this? lol What is Myth Busters doing then if they are not doing what I said? |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11655 Registered: Jun-06 | That is where I was yesterday lol. |
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Gold Member Username: DrsmithMontana USA Post Number: 2611 Registered: Nov-04 | plane wont fly if you think it will, say out loud "I am functionally retarded and it's amazing I even remember to breathe" |
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Bronze Member Username: JntarPost Number: 15 Registered: Jul-07 | I am functionally retarded and it's amazing I even remember to breathe!!!! Want to make a bet on it Doktah? |
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Bronze Member Username: JntarPost Number: 16 Registered: Jul-07 | The actual myth... A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Will the plane be able to take off? The answer is yes. If the plane is traveling at 5 miles per hour THRUSTING forward the conveyer 5 mph backwards, the wheels on the plane will be traveling at 10 mph due to the fact that they are FREE SPINNING and the pane is still thrusting at 5mph forward. As speed increases the plane still travels forward while the conveyer turns backwards and again...wheels FREE SPINNING. Once the plane reaches take off speed, reguardless of how fast the treadmill is going the plane will lift off. You see, the plane is powered by a propeller or jet engine. This type of movement pulls AIR from around it, not the GROUND below it. No matter what the ground is going as long as the propeller is pulling AIR around it, it will be able to move forward...once moving forward it will reach a point to where the wind below the wings will begin to create lift due to the forward movement...The plane WILL take off. |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana 2 DD3515s, 2... Post Number: 5678 Registered: Mar-04 | Hi jntar |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11671 Registered: Jun-06 |  |
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Gold Member Username: FrkkevinResonant Engineering..., Fort Worth... Email Post Number: 4282 Registered: Nov-05 | ...as the motor speed increase and the prop speed increases.. won't this generate large amounts of air to go around the wings creating lift? just a thought :P |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 11672 Registered: Jun-06 | "...as the motor speed increase and the prop speed increases.. won't this generate large amounts of air to go around the wings creating lift? " Not nearly enough. If a plane needs say 120 mph wind speed for takeoff think of driving at 120 mph on the highway and stick your head out the window. Now imagine that force multiplied by the size of the plane's wings. Have you ever seen the flex that occurs on a 747's wing span at takeoff? There's alot of force there.  |
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