Kicker subs vs DD
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Bronze Member Username: TornPost Number: 67 Registered: Jan-07 | Kicker subs vs. DD subs which one would win? |
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Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18Southeast PA Post Number: 2442 Registered: Jul-06 | DD..... lol that is no contest, assuming we are talking about equivalent series subs such as: Z series > Solo X 3500 or 9500 > L5, L7, CVX 1500 or 2500 > CVR etc..... |
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Gold Member Username: The_image_dynamicSan Diego Post Number: 1338 Registered: Dec-06 |  |
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Gold Member Username: JohnfiacA-ToWn, Kingkong ain... I got Chuck ... Post Number: 2815 Registered: Mar-06 | ^x2 this thread is almost as worthless as comparing IBM to apple.. lol but ya... if you take DD's low end subs and compare them to kickers higher end subs you might win with kicker SPL but SQ will still suck more on the kickers |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2590 Registered: Jul-06 | "DD..... lol that is no contest, assuming we are talking about equivalent series subs such as: Z series > Solo X 3500 or 9500 > L5, L7, CVX 1500 or 2500 > CVR etc....." Lol!Those are nowhere near equivalent.L7 will smash the 3500 15 by the way but that 18 will beat the L7 for now,until they make an 18'' L7(Probably won't happen). |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 524 Registered: Dec-03 | L7 has no chance against the 3500 series. The 35's utilize the same soft parts as the 9500, same voice coil, surround, ect. So the 3500 thermally handle equal power as the 9500's. The 3500 has a much higher BL than the L7. It also has more excursion, and more importantly staying within the magnetic gap while doing so. The center pole piece reaches over a half inch above the top plate which extends the MS to the voice coil leaves the gap. There's countless reasons the 3500 is better, another would be nearly all our team members who use L7's need to replace them after 2 to 3 burps because the cones break. The L7's shine in lower power competition classes, cone area contributes to their efficiency. The L7 Kickers are efficient, but cant compete with a 3500 at full potential. |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2612 Registered: Jul-06 | Price wise you can't even compare in terms of SPL.I wouldn't run L7s personally but for SPL I'd take it over the 3500 as far as cost effectiveness goes as long as it doesn't blow up. |
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Silver Member Username: DenimWww.TeamSSAudio.com, MD Post Number: 232 Registered: Nov-06 | Wow, it is install dependant and keep in mind the SoloX has won a few SQ championships. |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2613 Registered: Jul-06 | "The L7's shine in lower power competition classes, cone area contributes to their efficiency." That's basically what I had in mind when I originally posted.Watt for watt I'd have to pick the L7 until you start exceeding it's thermal capabilites and then the L7 just blows up usually and that's where the 3500 would shine SPL wise. "The L7 Kickers are efficient, but cant compete with a 3500 at full potential." Well said and agreed. |
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Gold Member Username: 420alldaylongPost Number: 1731 Registered: Sep-06 |  Is this a joke |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2614 Registered: Jul-06 | "Is this a joke"-What is that in reference to? |
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Gold Member Username: 420alldaylongPost Number: 1732 Registered: Sep-06 | This Thread |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 525 Registered: Dec-03 | When and where were these SQ championships won? Secondly, remember an SQ win doesnt mean the car has good sound quality, there are many judging fields that make up a competitors score that can make up for the SQ portion if its poor. Such as, max spl, wire looming, fusing, overall appearance, theres many points of criteria that go along with SQ for an overall score. Any audiophile knows the SoloX is nowhere near an SQ woofer. As for the install dependent statement, absolutely. However, with both subs performing at peak performance, in other words each build being of equal quality and capability, the 3500 will outperform the L7, all day bother. |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 526 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry Joey if we're boring you. Maybe you've got something more interesting to talk about? This thread could be relevant to people looking for competition woofers. Or simply for the purpose of debate, either way, not sure this thread is any more of a joke than the other ones on this forum. |
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Gold Member Username: Dustin3Tigard, OR U.S. Post Number: 4788 Registered: Oct-05 | no, this thread is a joke. DD and kicker shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence. L7 quality = azz while DD quality = superb. you cant compare them. we get enough of these comparing threads all day! and i highly dought soloX has won any sq titles lol they are only a spl woofer and nothin else. |
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Silver Member Username: DenimWww.TeamSSAudio.com, MD Post Number: 234 Registered: Nov-06 | Zac have you done an SQ competition? Do you actually think appearance/SPL/wireloom has a single thing to do with an SQ competition. The SoloX not being designed as an SQ sub is the whole point I am making. It is all in the install. SQ wins are based on judging on a test disk, as in clarity. The L7 has won SQ competitions also. |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2615 Registered: Jul-06 | Well,I definately should have been a lot more specific and not posted in haste.Note to self:Cover all grounds to cover my a s s. |
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New member Username: JayzbentPost Number: 6 Registered: May-07 | I ran a DD3512 with a PPI 1000 mono against the guy who lives across the street from me who had kicker L7 12" with a kicker mono amp and mine smoked his. He has a Grand Am. I have a an Integra GSR. He just said dang thats nutty. |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2616 Registered: Jul-06 | "In 2007 the SPAIR, just as the SoloX itself, withstands unnatural amounts of abuse while retaining the infrastructure for thunderous bass that earned it both competitive SPL (sound pressure level) and sound-quality world championships within weeks of its original release. Additionally, the 2007 SPAIR retro-fits into the previous generation of SoloX BAM with no modification."-Straight from Kicker's website.I can't remember what SQ championship they won or where/when it was and kicker doesn't say so...it'll require a bit of research to dig up that info or perhaps a call to Kicker will give us the answer to that. |
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Platinum Member Username: BestmankindLos Angeles, CA USA Post Number: 12861 Registered: Oct-05 | jason that's not fair. you have a hatch back and the other dude has a trunk car. |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2618 Registered: Jul-06 | "I ran a DD3512 with a PPI 1000 mono against the guy who lives across the street from me who had kicker L7 12" with a kicker mono amp and mine smoked his. He has a Grand Am. I have a an Integra GSR. He just said dang thats nutty." I'm sure your system sounded better too while out bangin his setup  What's your box tuned to? |
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Gold Member Username: CenusHicksville, Ohio Post Number: 3152 Registered: Jan-05 | OMG zac davis haven't seen you on in a long long time, are you still running those DD 9512's? if i remember correctly weren't you doing like a 162+db score with those, anyway nice to see you back. |
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New member Username: JayzbentIL. USA Post Number: 7 Registered: May-07 | "jason that's not fair. you have a hatch back and the other dude has a trunk car." True enough but I still have the plastic that separates the rear from the front that counts ha j/k. "I'm sure your system sounded better too while out bangin his setup :-) What's your box tuned to?" 40hz I was just used the box schematics from DD website. I was gonna mess around with different boxes and tunes but the dang thieves got my setup on the 6th. But im in the process of rebuilding. Can't keep me down. |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2619 Registered: Jul-06 | What part of Illinois?I'm from Chicago. |
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New member Username: JayzbentIL. USA Post Number: 8 Registered: May-07 | "What part of Illinois?I'm from Chicago." Actually I live right across the river from St. Louis. |
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Silver Member Username: SkiesCourtenay, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 716 Registered: Aug-05 | Denim, link me to an SQ championship where any subwoofer from the Solobaric line won. I agree with Zac Davis here, given same installer skills the 3500 would be much better, without a doubt. As for the SoloX, 9900 series and 99z series both annihilate as far as SPL numbers go. |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifePost Number: 832 Registered: Jan-07 | You've heard the rumors - a monster SPL sub from KICKER - an 18-inch square-coned giant - a sub so big it takes two guys to even look at it, let alone carry it - power ratings of 5000 watts RMS and 10,000 watts peak - a field-replaceable cone/coil assembly- It's all true AND MORE! The outrageous KICKER SoloX S18X is the biggest thing yet from the biggest name in bass. Eighteen inches and 100 pounds of the scariest, hairiest subwoofer to ever pound the face of the earth - engineered to deliver mind-numbing, gut-busting low frequency mayhem that only the seriously warped have the nerve to even imagine. The SoloX is for the hard-core SPL competitor (or guys that behave that way), and sometimes these folks blow things up. That's why we designed it with a removable cone/coil assembly. If you happen to really freak and let out the magic smoke, you can easily swap things out in minutes without pulling the entire sub! How does it perform? It grabbed World Championships in its first SPL competition (that means it's loud) - AND in its first Sound Quality competition (that means it sounds good). How's that? |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 529 Registered: Dec-03 | Denim, Yes, I have been to a couple SQ competitions. And yes, judging IS based on a points system that includes such things as I previously mentioned, along with many others. SQ judging is not determined by sound quality alone. Sorry, those are facts. And another fact is...the SoloX is incapable of recreating music with the same accuracy of the 3500. Build as much as you want, you can only shine a turd so much. The SoloX is an SPL sub period, I will not debate any further on that matter. Now, as far as build quality as someone mentioned, well I would have to disagree. I think the SoloX is a well designed and executed woofer, I love the in field re-cone assembly unit. Very nice, and very loud. Just ask Rob, we sold him an 18x a couple years ago, his roof had started to break from that single woofer, Kicker never ceases to amaze me with their innovations. |
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Silver Member Username: SkiesCourtenay, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 719 Registered: Aug-05 | From the company's website I don't believe it. They're trying to sell their own product. If they show me technologys they incorporated into the Solobaric line that actually enhanced SQ, It would be more believable. Show me results of a competition, or someone that actually won 1st place of an SQ competition with a Solobaric woofer. |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifePost Number: 835 Registered: Jan-07 | "From the company's website" yes, wether its true or not i dont know but u cant blame kicker, EVERY brand in the world will say sh!t that might not be true, just for selling purposes |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifePost Number: 836 Registered: Jan-07 | here is proof that they are EXTREMELY loud, 2 solo-x 18's that hit 169.8, not taking brand sides, but i want to even see 4 9515's to do that, or even 2 dd Z series 18's do that, can u show me that? |
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Platinum Member Username: BestmankindLos Angeles, CA USA Post Number: 12876 Registered: Oct-05 | i believe someone did 170 with a single dd sub. |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifePost Number: 837 Registered: Jan-07 | my bad, http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/Kicker/solox18.1.wmv |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 530 Registered: Dec-03 | First off, theres thousands of competitions across the US. Many of which have little to no SQ competitors, which often times gives an SQ contestant a 1st place by default. On the other hand, with X's, its highly possible for a competitor to win at a larger event as well. Keeping in mind theres more than one sq class, from beginner to experts, in addition, you must keep in mind sq results DO NOT rely solely on sound quality, its based on points, example... http://www.soundoff.org/supportfiles/iSQ2005ADVANCED.pdf This is a sheet judges fill out when judging your car in SQ. |
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Gold Member Username: The_image_dynamicSan Diego Post Number: 1347 Registered: Dec-06 | It is only a matter of time before Kicker designs a decent round sub with SQ. You really can't blame them for continuing to mass produce the loud pieces of shit that they do now, because after all, they are some of the best selling subs in the world. But -- they do have the engineers and technology to build a really nice sounding subwoofer (judging from their amps) so I predict that they will soon unveil something new. They aren't stupid, you know damn well they hear the criticism of their current subs. Until that time, I reserve the right to laugh at those who buy the current models, let alone compare them with a stellar company like DD. |
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Gold Member Username: JohnfiacA-ToWn, Kingkong ain... I got Chuck ... Post Number: 2839 Registered: Mar-06 | ^i think the reason behind them not making SQ subs is because mostly all the newbs want is loud... and they get the job done... they dont know what the hell SQ is until they actually hear a decent system. And there are ALWAYS going to be newbs so they are always going to sell... if there cheap and they sell.... they make lots of money from it, which in return they spend on making better amps... atleast it appears that way |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2620 Registered: Jul-06 | Haha Killa,I'm sure your DDs sound great with all the rattling of the roof,panels and all that other junk that gets moving around in there,you can't even take advantage of the SQ your subs have  At the volume/pressure level you're at with your vehicle it would probably sound just as bad as some L7s.For your vehicle to take advantage of any subs SQ you need to first eliminate any form of interference(Rattling,vibrations). |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2621 Registered: Jul-06 | "But -- they do have the engineers and technology to build a really nice sounding subwoofer (judging from their amps) so I predict that they will soon unveil something new. They aren't stupid, you know damn well they hear the criticism of their current subs." Yea,I'm sure Kicker has something in store.I'm afraid of how much that 5Krms amp will cost when it releases. |
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Gold Member Username: JohnfiacA-ToWn, Kingkong ain... I got Chuck ... Post Number: 2842 Registered: Mar-06 | Well regardless of rattles and all you can still tell a difference. Im working on sound proofing it to stop every single rattle but its going to take some time for that, i need another car to drive while the ride gets its guts stripped away to nothing... (interior) but still better bass, but rattles suck.. rattles on a SQ system sound better then rattles on a SPL system.. cuz the bass is still cleaner but ya.. kinda does suck to still have rattles. I was just thinking about kicker amps a while ago wondering why there isnt a 5k amp.. im sure its gunna sell for ATLEAST 1200 they deff. charge alot for them |
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Gold Member Username: BernymacCambodian Post Number: 2741 Registered: Sep-04 | Kicker subwoofers sell. Which means their doing "something" right. If their products don't sell, they know they need to make a change. But since their products sell, why make such a drastic change. nah meanzy. |
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Silver Member Username: JkidderSpring hill, Florida Usa Post Number: 575 Registered: Nov-05 | "here is proof that they are EXTREMELY loud, 2 solo-x 18's that hit 169.8, not taking brand sides, but i want to even see 4 9515's to do that, or even 2 dd Z series 18's do that, can u show me that?" haha the 12" Z series would hit that. |
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Bronze Member Username: DjlPost Number: 63 Registered: Sep-06 | You might look up Allen Dante's legal score in Extreme 1-2 with the DD Z on the DB drags leaderboard. 179 plus |
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New member Username: BreakdownPost Number: 3 Registered: May-07 | i think some of you guys are dumb or dense or just prefer to follow. alma gates won in IASCA sq competition using 6 solo X's. by the way, you don't win sq competitions if your sub-stage sounds like p00p. maybe you can compete and put up a good score based on other areas where you earned points, but you can't routinely win like alma was. |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 531 Registered: Dec-03 | No reply Demin? As for Alma using solox's, hmm, i know her personally and from what i understand shes always ran spl until only a few years ago and shes been runnning JBL for quite a bit longer. But what do i know |
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Silver Member Username: DenimWww.TeamSSAudio.com, MD Post Number: 244 Registered: Nov-06 | Your telling me the SQ comps I have done in the past and the ones I have been to are suddenly judgeing on LOOKS? You mean when the judges got into the car, put in the test disk, listened to the tracks. Wrote scores on each of the tracks and then got out and moved on to the next vehicle there was looks of the install involved? Maybe for SLAP, hence the name sound looks and performance, and for USACI, which is not out here on the east cost that I have seen. You dont find it sad that looks are part of how good the quality of sound of the install is judged? |
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Bronze Member Username: Surferdude9371Maitland, Florida Post Number: 74 Registered: Mar-07 | i havent ever heard a dd sub before but i have a solo x 18 and it gets loud as F but at the same time ive heard cleaner sounding bass it really depends what you want more louder or better sounding bass if you go with kicker on install i have heard that was both loud and sounded good was 4 15 solarbaric woofers with (i know everyone here hates them but) kole3000 amps and it sounded amazing in his blazer. |
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Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 532 Registered: Dec-03 | Demin, all SQ events that I know of are based on points. Even IASCA will deduct/award points for: Factors that will affect the durability and longevity of the audio system, as well as cosmetics of the audio system wiring will be judged. If there is no aftermarket (non factory) wiring used, the compartment will be judged based on the condition of the factory wiring. The following example diagrams are provided as a reference. They all comply with the IASCA wiring guidelines, but are not the only power system designs that will comply with the IASCA rules. Batteries connected to any charging system, installed anywhere in the vehicle, that are not vented and secured to the vehicle will result in a 5 point deduction. Judges evaluate whether the system can be operated (Volume, track selection, power on/off) without unreasonable distraction from the road. If, in the Judge's opinion, the system cannot be operated safely while driving, no points will be awarded. Proper sized wire gauge should be used for both positive and negative current requirements. If not, no points will be awarded. All electronics throughout the audio system installation must be individually fused (a fuse that is in line with each (one) piece of electronic gear) with appropriate value fuses. Chassis-mounted fuses on electronic equipment satisfy this requirement. Competitors must present photographs of (or physical access to) fuses for in-dash equipment. All fuses must be readily accessible within 30 seconds and be able to be replaced within the five minute breakdown period. A Judge may request that this be demonstrated and will not award points if it cannot be done. All system power wires connected to any positive battery post must be fused within 18 inches of wire length from the battery post and prior to the power cable's first pass through any sheet metal or other conductive material. If there is no fuse present or the fusing is located beyond 18 inches or 46 centimeters of wire length or after the power wire passes through sheet metal, the score is 0. .......I'm not sure what organization you compete in but I've never heard of one that awards a winner by sound quality alone, although I agree that should be thee most important criteria in judging an audio systems sound quality. What organization(s) have you competed in? |
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Gold Member Username: Th3pwn3rPost Number:... Post Number: 2636 Registered: Jul-06 | On another note...Zac how's the new car coming along?Start or decide on what you're doing with it?I'm thinking about coming up next weekend but I'll give you a call before that happens. |
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New member Username: KhaePost Number: 10 Registered: May-07 | what about the dd 3500 series 15 inch an d a kicker solor baric s15l7 06 model..... talking about both same size 15 inch....??? we'll ill see about that though... my cousin jus bought his dd 3500 15 inch and i got a s15l7 solor baric not the older model the new one. and we will be using the same amp and we'll which is a massive audo rs 100 for now... |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifePost Number: 839 Registered: Jan-07 | "here is proof that they are EXTREMELY loud, 2 solo-x 18's that hit 169.8, not taking brand sides, but i want to even see 4 9515's to do that, or even 2 dd Z series 18's do that, can u show me that?" "haha the 12" Z series would hit that." haha show me proof then i might believe it lol hahahahahahaha  |
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Bronze Member Username: TornPost Number: 79 Registered: Jan-07 | the Z's don't exist? |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86FTW Post Number: 9961 Registered: Aug-05 | yes, the z subs exist. they just don't make them anymore from the last info i heard, but i haven't been in the CA scene for quite some time. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mrray13Post Number: 22 Registered: Oct-06 | wow, this is actually a decent comparison thread. some good points made on both sides. kicker does indeed have a few sq titles, research chad romano, chad himel to name a few. does DD have any? and zac is right, there is much more to sq then just sound quality. a car with enough of an output score can defeat a better sounding car, if the rest of the scores are close. sq has gotten to be more about the look,rather then the sound. i also know of a few competitiors who use both, depending upon organization. solo x's in db drag and DD in usaci. personally, i prefer the kickers, but i'm in no way knocking DD. both comopanies have more then proven themselves in the lanes. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
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Platinum Member Username: BestmankindLos Angeles, CA USA Post Number: 12928 Registered: Oct-05 | its cool how you put "wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" after all your posts. it makes it seem like you are a very energetic person. anyways getting back to the thread. sq isn't sq unless you have some nice component speakers to go with the subs. i don't care if you have the best sq sub in the world, without nice sounding speakers up front it won't sound good. so at the sq comps, its not like they only listen to the subs but the whole system. so yes i believe the solo x can win an sq competition. put it with some nice sounding speakers that compliment the solo x well and you got one clean sounding system. |
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Platinum Member Username: Chaunb3400Huntsville, Alabama U.S. Post Number: 12273 Registered: Jul-05 | remember sq is subjective..spl is not... what may sound amazing to u may sound like sh!t to me....but if a car is doing 160...the car is doing 160 no way around it... |
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Bronze Member Username: Mrray13Post Number: 27 Registered: Oct-06 | lol..thanks chad. very well put chauncey. except 160 at the kick isn't 160 on the dash. so one can still get around the meter a bit. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
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Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18Southeast PA Post Number: 2496 Registered: Jul-06 | Kickers statements about their SPL and SQ are misleading at best, I go as far as to call it false advertising. Kicker subs DO NOT play loud and sound good in the same installation. They sound like crap in the installations required to make them loud. Unlike DD subs, which sound great AND are very loud at the same time. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mrray13Post Number: 35 Registered: Oct-06 | M.S...you couldn't be further from the truth. as was mentioned above, sq is subjective. so one can indeed have a LSQ kicker system. it's all in the owner's ears. i've never heard a dd setup sound good. does that mean they don't exist? nope, just means either i have't heard a properly setup one, or i don't care for the response the dds had in that particular application. on the other hand, i've heard several good kicker setups. ranging from cvt10's sealed to s18x ported. one of the cleanest setups we did involved a pair of 12L7in a sealed box, ran off a memphis 1500d in a standard cab silverado. extremely loud and quick, they would double kick the air outa your chest and then drop so low the truck would shake. would you like the sound? i have no clue. but i loved it. no, sq is too subjective for one to really say anything. and it's so install dependent, that one could say the exact same thing about every sub on the planet. and they do. like a wise man once said, 85% install, 10% product, 5% beer. that leads to the best of installs. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
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Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18Southeast PA Post Number: 2519 Registered: Jul-06 | Yes SQ is subjective, that is indeed true. But most people agree on what GENERALLY sounds good or bad. If you think L7s sound good, you're in the minority. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mrray13Post Number: 36 Registered: Oct-06 | quite possibly. but i know of several people, mostly competitors, who'll swear by kicker over dd, including the dds they own and have competed with. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
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Platinum Member Username: BestmankindLos Angeles, CA USA Post Number: 12974 Registered: Oct-05 | yea a few of competitors around here aren't too happy with their dd's so they changed them out to re's or the solo x. some even say the sq is better than the 9515 they had. |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifePost Number: 842 Registered: Jan-07 | ^^^^ i believe that chad |
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