NEED another sub to get LOWER!
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 189 Registered: Apr-05 | right now my set-up is a memphis Power Reference 12" sub which gives out 250rms and is 4ohmDVC being pushed by a memphis 500.1 at 1ohm. i got it wired at 300rms. the thing i've noticed is that the sub doesn't get very low. it cuts off at i believe 33hz. i want to get another one to push the full 500w of the amp. but i was wondering if that would make it to where they subs would get lower frequencies. i've heard people say that the more surface area the lower they'll go. is that true? the more subs or surface area you have the lower the frequencies they'll get? because i really want something that'll get all the lows. but i like the memphis subs because they sound good and are pretty cheap. thanks. |
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Platinum Member Username: James1115Use a simple... Post Number: 10071 Registered: Dec-04 | the more surface area you have the louder it will get not the lower. A sub can only go as low as it is designed to go(FS). A sub With a FS of 35hz will never get as low as a sub with a 18hz FS. |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 190 Registered: Apr-05 | d@mn. well that sucks. any recomendations for a sub that's 250-300rms 4DVC with low FS rating? thanks bro for clearin' that up for me. |
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Gold Member Username: CtmikeCt. Post Number: 3841 Registered: Feb-06 | idq |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 191 Registered: Apr-05 | are they rated good? on the ID site it really doesn't look like a sub that would handle 500rms and could get 19hz. but you never know. |
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Platinum Member Username: James1115Use a simple... Post Number: 10075 Registered: Dec-04 | Image Dynamics is arguably one of the best companies out. The IDQ is a great great recommendation. |
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Silver Member Username: RenegadesrunLafayette, IN US Post Number: 697 Registered: Oct-04 | RE SE |
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Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18Southeast PA Post Number: 1359 Registered: Jul-06 | " the more surface area you have the louder it will get not the lower. A sub can only go as low as it is designed to go(FS). A sub With a FS of 35hz will never get as low as a sub with a 18hz FS. " Not exactly accurate. The larger a sub is, the lower the FS usually is. So usually a larger sub CAN play lower than a smaller one. Josh, look into a Fi Q. www.ficaraudio.com The 15" has a 25hz FS, most music doesn't even have frequencies that low in it. |
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Gold Member Username: CenusHicksville, Ohio Post Number: 3097 Registered: Jan-05 | the larger the sub the lower it will play it movees more air, the reason arger subs have a lower fs is because they hve more moving mass, i'd look into a AA ava quite possibly one of the if not the best low end sub ever. |
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Gold Member Username: Johnfiac151.9db Dail... My wangers b... Post Number: 2139 Registered: Mar-06 | big subs still ussualy tend to get lower, bigger size moves slower in general.. but it isnt the only factor |
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New member Username: B_rad_nepPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-07 | hey im not trying to change the subject of this thread, but do 15" subs have a considerably slower response rate than 12" subs? |
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Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18Southeast PA Post Number: 1366 Registered: Jul-06 | " bigger size moves slower in general.. but it isnt the only factor " A 15" sub can move just as fast as a 12". " do 15" subs have a considerably slower response rate than 12" subs? " No, that is a myth. The motor, VC, suspension, etc. will affect how a sub sounds, the cone size will not. |
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New member Username: B_rad_nepPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-07 | aight thx M.S. |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 192 Registered: Apr-05 | well if i'm going to go with an IDQ or an FI Q i would obviously be able to power one of them with the 500.1 amp. how would i wire the sub to get to 1ohm? right now i have a 4ohm DVC sub wired to 2ohms. would i just get the FI Q in 2ohm and wire it the same? crutchfield wiring diagrams suck now. |
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Silver Member Username: RenegadesrunLafayette, IN US Post Number: 700 Registered: Oct-04 | ......and what is the FS of the RE. Gee, i hope its not 25hz!  RE is out... Fi is in, i guess i missed the memo. |
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Silver Member Username: SpkrmanChi town, IL U S A Post Number: 374 Registered: Mar-06 | "No, that is a myth. The motor, VC, suspension, etc. will affect how a sub sounds, the cone size will not." it ALL is taken into account... if you change the cone size, you effect MMS, which is going to alter the sound. In general the "myth" is true when it comes to most internet woofers - same motor/suspension geometry with a bigger basket and cone slapped on... in that case, bigger means slower/lower. You can't say a thump 10 is inherantly going to sound "tighter" than a magnum 15, but thats exactly what people say when "10's are tighter than 15's". |
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Silver Member Username: SpkrmanChi town, IL U S A Post Number: 375 Registered: Mar-06 | "cuts off" at 33hz? have you played tones to test this, how exactly are you arriving at this conclusion? Frequency response can be determined by the enclosure and the enclosures interaction with the vehicle... the woofer plays little part when there is freedom of design. |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 194 Registered: Apr-05 | it's not that. i just can't find a place that has prices on RE. most people that i've seen use RE say that it's kind of pricey. i'm on a budget right now. and the RE SE is 600rms and gets 25hz. but it's a DVC 4ohm sub. i need something that can be wired to 1ohm and i don't have a diagram for that. |
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Gold Member Username: Extrmndor3IF U HEAR ME... crazydbs.com Post Number: 4384 Registered: Feb-06 | umm got dammit u all confused.... the fs doesnt mean nuttin.... except how much the vibrate the most in free air... if ur comparing how low will it get only looking at the fs and cone area u have to say that the sub with Fs will get LOWER only in FREE air........ to see how a sub will get louder u juzz have to look at Fs thats juzz one step.... its juzz not hey look at the FS it will get lower.... no its not like that u all think to compare its juzz too easy and u all totally wrong.... first of all look the the Fs.... next thing to look its excursion.... since if u got a 50hz tone at 1 octave lower ull need 2 times the excursion at one octave lower than playing a 50hz tone so please Fs doesnt mean nuttin.... next u have to look at the at the BOX if it will provide nice extension for the driver to get lower..... and finally u have to look at the driver motor... or Bl to find that when the sub its going to produce those low notes it wont loose control and have a hard time making those low notes.... some subwoofers manufacturers make a Bl chart of how the Bl efficiency..... and at the end u have to look at the subs physical appearence and design.... WHY???? cuz wat u get when u put a high excursion sub.... good thermal power and a GOOD @ss motor but u put cheap voice coil and bad coolig???? ull get a woofer that will not give you a good extension and will fail to your need..... please Fs is not a number u juzz see and u see how low it will be its juzz a part to compare how low will it be.... it only works alone when u put the driver in free air.... zpeedy.... |
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Gold Member Username: Extrmndor3IF U HEAR ME... crazydbs.com Post Number: 4385 Registered: Feb-06 | sorry sorry i fucked up.... when u play a 50hz tone and u want to play a tone 1 octave lower ull need 3 times the excursion not 2 sorry  |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Missouri Post Number: 2288 Registered: Dec-06 | Cone acceleration is not the problem here. If you get enough amplifier power you can get a 10-ton anvil to accelerate just as fast as a 10" woofer. |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 196 Registered: Apr-05 | well the memphis site says the sub will go to 33hz. the box i made sealed to their reccomended size. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Missouri Post Number: 2289 Registered: Dec-06 | I thought I read somewhere it said 8x the excursion for the same volume an octave lower (to the ear). That might change (a lot) due to cabin gain in a car. |
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Gold Member Username: Extrmndor3IF U HEAR ME... crazydbs.com Post Number: 4386 Registered: Feb-06 | na its 3 times bro it might read about the 3db octace yeah |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 197 Registered: Apr-05 | alright. so what's a sub that'll get low? putting aside the fs hz measure and everything else. i want a sub that i can wire to 1ohm that'll handle 500rms and sound good that'll also hit notes near 20hz. i want to be able to put in any song that hits hard and have it hit every note. cause when i listen to lil' wyte's "hoodz run down" it skips a lot of bass. i want to give it all and get all back. something that's around 200 or so would be nice. thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Missouri Post Number: 2290 Registered: Dec-06 | It also has to do with how the cone couples to the air at different frequencies. Cone woofers are inefficient in the lower frequencies in that they have to move a whole lot of air in order to make a wave of considerable size and so they need to move more and more and displacement requirements increase exponentially as the frequency goes down and down. Wave your hand through the air as hard as you can. There isn't much resistance, is there? Now wave your hand as hard as you can deep in a pool of water. Chances are you've created a much stronger wave because there was more impedance to the movement of your hand because there were more molecules in the way for you to move requiring more force. |
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Silver Member Username: SpkrmanChi town, IL U S A Post Number: 379 Registered: Mar-06 | "well the memphis site says the sub will go to 33hz. the box i made sealed to their reccomended size." that doesnt mean anything. Note my above post... "Frequency response can be determined by the enclosure and the enclosures interaction with the vehicle... the woofer plays little part when there is freedom of design." You need a new box... not a new woofer. "Cone acceleration is not the problem here. If you get enough amplifier power you can get a 10-ton anvil to accelerate just as fast as a 10" woofer." not true. You can throw a million watts at a super pro with a brick glued to the cone... and all it will do is fry. I'll just fix your statement: "If you get enough MOTOR power you can get a 10-ton anvil to accelerate just as fast as a 10" woofer." |
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Gold Member Username: Extrmndor3IF U HEAR ME... crazydbs.com Post Number: 4387 Registered: Feb-06 | yo bro wat u need to go its get a phoenix gold octane r z rated... it wilgive you similar loudness as the type r but it will give you more sq or more control in the sound output |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 198 Registered: Apr-05 | hey mark. if i need a new box to get my sub to pick-up lower frequencies. can you suggest a box then for 2 12" Memphis Power Reference subs? cause i'd like to get another 12 so that i can have 500w rms. but if there's no way the subs will get to 25-27hz then i'm not gonna bother. i need a set-up to get low. simple as that. and thanks for the info. |
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Gold Member Username: Extrmndor3IF U HEAR ME... crazydbs.com Post Number: 4393 Registered: Feb-06 | the pg will still get cleaner and lower than those memphis and its same price or cheaper... |
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Silver Member Username: Solobaric4lifeSeminole, Al United states Post Number: 528 Registered: Jan-07 | a ported box would get deeper than sealed anyways(tested fact) and be louder the pr 15's get verry low in right box |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Missouri Post Number: 2302 Registered: Dec-06 | Thanks for correcting me (and my knowledge) Mark. It makes sense now since you can't strap a brick to a 1-inch full-range driver and expect it to move. Now a TC-5200 on the other hand would probably be able to handle it somewhat. |
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Silver Member Username: SpkrmanChi town, IL U S A Post Number: 383 Registered: Mar-06 | "hey mark. if i need a new box to get my sub to pick-up lower frequencies. can you suggest a box then for 2 12" Memphis Power Reference subs? cause i'd like to get another 12 so that i can have 500w rms. but if there's no way the subs will get to 25-27hz then i'm not gonna bother. i need a set-up to get low. simple as that. and thanks for the info." www.spkrman.com the PG ZR's as suggested above would be an excellent choice... but that $ put towards a new box will yield you a much bigger gain in output and quality/deepness than buying new woofers. I work with a memphis dealer in the area, I am familiar with those woofers. They need a specific box to perform - of course I know that box ;) |
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Bronze Member Username: Imperial_designsLafayette, Louisiana Post Number: 68 Registered: Oct-06 | rob its actually 4x.... every octave you drop its 4x the excursion needed for the same output... and MASS kills efficiency as measured @ 1kz not necessarily 20 HZ though... also QES and many other parameters are misunderstood. a lower Q means you have better damping @ resonance.. so above and below resonance you will get lower efficiency therefor output.. this is very notable in SPL woofers... higher Q means a wider bandwidth with the same damping.. so efficiency both above and below FS will remain more constant.. too high a Q and your going to run into some major efficiency problems... for subwoofers .3-.65 IMO is usable... depending on the alignment you can go out of those boundaries with good results |
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Silver Member Username: SpkrmanChi town, IL U S A Post Number: 386 Registered: Mar-06 | devils advocate: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j25tZL0Ln48 all notes were approx equal in volume |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 199 Registered: Apr-05 | mark. do you have a suggestion on the box dimensions? if i can get lower with the PR memphis then i'd like to buy another one. so that would be 2 12's. i've never had a ported/vented box before. any help with the dimmensions would be appreciated. thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: ShutterleftopenColumbus, Ohio United states Post Number: 201 Registered: Apr-05 | anyone? |
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