Best/Worse Audio Equipment
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2417 Registered: May-05 | I know that the previous "good/bad" list was supposedly off-limits to reproducing here bc it was (c). Whatever though. Here is another I came across that is arguably a bit more intricate. Not sure if it's been posted (don't hang around here much anymore), but... As per Camxrunner of toyotanation.com "This list is my personal OPINION on what I consider how manufacturers and their products rank. I have used some of the products listed, but most of these brands/models listed is what I have came across from years of research on the subject, and/or from first hand listening. Amps: Audiophile McIntosh TRU Audison VRx, LRx series Brax Milbert Butler Zapco C2K Genesis Series 3 Sinfoni Xetec P5 line ( Some subs are designed to work better in certain enclosures. There are purpose built subs that are made fro SPL. There are subs that are made purely for sound quality. Theres also "SQL" subs. These are sort of a mix of a SQ driver and a SPL driver. SPL subs are generally designed to be installed in a large ported enclosure. SQ and SQL subs can typically be put in both with good results. Sealed typically yeilds better sound quality and accuracy, also with a sealed enclosure the amount of airspace needed is lessened. This can be good if you are trying to do a small or stealth enclosure. One advantage of using a ported enclosure is that the same sub can get louder off of less power than the sub in the sealed enclosure. In most cases you give up some accuracy by going to a ported enclosure. But you can get very good results out of using a ported enclosure. A similar install would be an Infinite Baffle install. AKA IB. This type of install also requires less power than a sealed enclosure and can yeild very good results too. Infinite Baffle can be great for people that don't want to give up any space in their trunk. But space saving isn't the only reason to go this route. IB can sound very VERY good too if properly implemented. If you do decide to do an IB install, you need to carefully pick a subwoofer that can be used in an IB install. Do some searching on the www.buwaldahybrids.com and www.talkaudio.uk forums. IB installs are very popular there and there's a ton of info on it. When picking any sub/enclosure you need to take into consideration how much power you have avaialable. Some subs are more efficient than others, and work well off low power. Some require a certain amount of power to get moving. SPL subs typically require and work better off of more power. A sq sub is typically designed to work well off 100-400 watts rms. Another subject worth bringing up is the use of different types of amplifiers. The two most common types are Class D and Class AB(there's also tube amps, class T, Class A and other types, but we won't go into those) Class AB power is less efficient than class D. However class AB is prefered over class D for better sound quality. If you are going to do a sound quality sub install, and don't require more than400-500 watts rms, then you can probably get away with using class AB and your electrical system should be able to handle it. If you are more into SPL you can use a class D amp and a ported enclosure and get considerably louder than the sq install with the same draw on the electrical system. At some point you have to upgrade the alternator though. A very big SPL or SQL install will require more power. Here's some things to check out, be sure to do plenty of your own research before picking a sub. TC Sounds TC2+/Soundsplinter RL-i www.oaudio.com www.soundsplinter.com These subs are known for great sound quality and having the capability of getting very loud. In a sealed enclosure 400+ watts rms should be used. TC SOunds TC9/Soundsplinter RL-p SQL/SPL subs. These are also great subs. Send lots of power though Image Dynamics IDQ, old design, but hasn't been changed for a reason. Great SQ subs. For ID on the internet go to www.sounddomain. Pretty efficient subs and don't need too much power. These subs work great in sealed or ported. 100-350 watts rms is all that's needed, the 12"s and the 15"s can handle 400-500 watts rms. Image Dynamics ID, still a great sq sub, but designed to get louder than the IDQ's, 100-400 watts rms. The ID8V3 is also a great 8" sub. Image Dynamics IDMAX, very popular SQL sub. Works well off 600-1,000 watts rms. All Image Dynamics subs work well in IB installs. Peerless XLS and XXLS. There is a home version and a car version. The car version has lower ohms. These also work great in freeair installs. Diamond D6 sub great sub with 600+ wrms. Arc Audio D series, very similar to IDQ Arc Flatline, very nice SQL sub. Dayton Audio Titanic, good SQL sub Adire Audio makes good subs across their whole lineup. The Brahma is a popular sub, but very power hungry, needs over 1K watts rms. RE Audio makes subs that cater to everyone, SE has good sq, and get's loud. XXX is a great SQL sub. RE MT is a dedicated SPL sub, handles lots of power. Soundstream Exact's are nice SQ subs, and fairly inexspensive. Digital Designs makes great subs, most of DD is designed for SPL, but very nice sounding subs though. Elemental Designs- eD is very comparable to ID. Treo makes good SPL subs. Older PPI flatcone subs were really nice. Illusion Audio made really nice SQ subs that are very shallow(but still require good airspace), they just recently went back into business. If I think of more I'll add them later." |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4274 Registered: Aug-05 | mikechec!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good list. thanks for sharing dude. |
|
Gold Member Username: BestmankindLos Angeles, CA USA Post Number: 4649 Registered: Oct-05 | nice list. its good to see that my equipment is listed in your good part. lol. |
|
Silver Member Username: Crayola0Wisconsin Post Number: 458 Registered: Jun-06 | what is audiophile? |
|
Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 3876 Registered: Apr-05 | I don't agree with the PPI amps organzation...in fact, it makes me question whether or not that poster has even heard those brands or is just relaying general consensus. I've heard McIntosh and Zapco amps...PPI's are right there and some limited edition PPIs beat them. And the PPI Art series is arguably better than the PC series-the Art series is just overhyped because they were so unique looking. |
|
Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 3877 Registered: Apr-05 | LOL he doesn't even mention JL subs...wow... |
|
Bronze Member Username: Genocyde21Post Number: 74 Registered: Apr-06 | I think when he says audiophile he means that if your REALLY meaning to put 500$ in a set of components, these are the ones |
|
Silver Member Username: CaraudioToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 562 Registered: Sep-05 | Kicker CVX is up there and Audiobhan is quality. |
|
Silver Member Username: LoudonPost Number: 474 Registered: Jun-04 | caraudio calm urself .. nothing audiobahn makes its quality... and a cvx is an average subwoofer and i sell them for a living ... so i dno where u got ur info from |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4284 Registered: Aug-05 | that list is comprised of ONE PERSON'S Opinion. and it looks to me as if he has heard quite a bit of subs. but nonone has heard them all.....and in the end.....it is still his opinion. lol |
|
Bronze Member Username: MoorezyPost Number: 39 Registered: Jun-06 | indeed, some people may have had some of the products on mikes bad list to work well for them in there installation ie. using an audiobahn amp |
|
Gold Member Username: CtmikeCt. Post Number: 1293 Registered: Feb-06 | hey mike, you sell kickers for a living? where at? i think you told me before you live over new london, right. what store you work at? |
|
Silver Member Username: LoudonPost Number: 475 Registered: Jun-04 | nah i go to school over there .... i live closer to new york |
|
Gold Member Username: CtmikeCt. Post Number: 1296 Registered: Feb-06 | where you work at that sells kicker, authorized place? if so i might be interested in some amps. |
|
Silver Member Username: LoudonPost Number: 476 Registered: Jun-04 | well let me know cuz if u want a big amp i have to order them ... so hit me on email binny816@yahoo.com |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2418 Registered: May-05 | Hey Muddy. What's been goin on, man? Do I have you mistaken or were you looking into an Iridium 3-way? There was another "muddy" on another forum, but didn't know if it was you. Did you ever get that squared away? And as a side note, none of the old PPI stuff was over hyped. It was excellent equipment. NO amp reproduces sound. It amplifies it. PPI was built with very strict tolerances and superb/over adequate power supplies. Bruce Macmillan designed all the Art series as well as the 2350DM. Both were superb amps. Their notoriety had little to do with the actual art. In fact, the 2350DM is actually where JL's RIPS technology originated. JL used Bruce to design their Slash series amps. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2419 Registered: May-05 | "what is audiophile?" An audioplile is a term for an audio purist. One who hopes to attain the exact duplicate of the original production/source. Relatively speaking, audiophile grade equipment is considered the best "of the best of the best sir... with honors" (A little Men in Black non-sequitur ). Anyway, equipment as such does not compromise quality or sonic reproduction. Consequently, it is typically costly. I used to consider myself an audiophile, but now prefer Jonathan's description as an "enthusiast" (after meeting some die hard core audiophiles). |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4290 Registered: Aug-05 | i was looking for one. but i have given up, b/c of low funds. lol i would settle for a UR 2 way though. how are things with you? i haven't seen you around these parts in a while, you were a valuable asset to the question answering team here.  "you know the difference between you and me?........i make this look good" MIB baby |
|
Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 461 Registered: Dec-03 | Mmats and Earthquake deserves a place in the list, they have built some of the worlds most efficient class D amps to date. I would like to see Arc a little higher on the list...SPL Dynamics may be another to add to the value list...umm...Stan from Harrison Labs made a few very interesting amplifiers as well...Did you mention AudioArt in your lists? How about Crossfire or Cliff Designs for value? Anywho, very nice list, Thanks for the good read. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2421 Registered: May-05 | There were a couple of threads that just threw me through the roof, Muddy. Had absolutely nothing to do with car audio. They just became more and more prevalent. The site has basically turned into a generic teen chat room, imo. It's all good though. So long as the members are pleased, that's what counts. I agree about Crossfire, Zac. I've heard great things about mmats (primarily the speakers), but I've never experienced the brand. In fact I often wonder where their distributers are. As far as amps though, I also like the Phass HP and RE series. And the PHD Roma was a very quality amp as well. I'm working on my "project stealth" thing for the truck. I'll post the changes hopefully by the end of the month. |
|
Silver Member Username: LoudonPost Number: 481 Registered: Jun-04 | good thread u guys got going here ... i have an opinion question to ask u zac or mikechec ... i was looking into the rainbow slc series components ... just wondering if you guys used any of them... cuz i know that rainbow is notorious for great speakers i have never heard this series ... hoping u guys have some input on them ... oh and i agree with u zac on the cliff designs amplifiers being a good value amp a friend of mine is running there amps in his comp car and they have given him everything he hoped for with a fraction of what most of the amplifiers needed would cost .. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 61 Registered: Jul-06 | Hmmm so SoundStream amps are of poor quality...I was going to buy a XXX 6500-D .Well I guess I'll have to go back on my search for an amp.  Any reccomendations as to a substitute? |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4323 Registered: Aug-05 | i agree with you on the teen chat room thing. there for a while.....over 50% of the threads in the sub section were titled - OT: "blah blah" lol the amps that i have been VERY impressed with that nobody seems to talk about EVER are the A series DLS amps. man those are nice. Clean and underrated. some of my fav's. |
|
Gold Member Username: CtmikeCt. Post Number: 1305 Registered: Feb-06 | hey muddy, where'd you get your dls amps? friend also recommended them to me and i've been looking at maybe the a6 or cad11, but can't find any dealers? you know of any? or do you have to buy direct? |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4325 Registered: Aug-05 | the shop i helped out at was a dealer.:0 they have a thing on their website that has a huge list of dealers in diff. states. |
|
Gold Member Username: CtmikeCt. Post Number: 1307 Registered: Feb-06 | cool thanks. guess i gotta try a new comp., the site wont pop up on mine. |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4326 Registered: Aug-05 | http://www.dlsamerica.com/ http://www.dls.se/english/index.htm |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2422 Registered: May-05 | "the amps that i have been VERY impressed with that nobody seems to talk about EVER are the A series DLS amps. man those are nice. Clean and underrated. some of my fav's." Those are beautiful amps. Besides their performance and build, I love their aesthetic presentation. No flash. Just very solid, neat, and concise. "Hmmm so SoundStream amps are of poor quality...I was going to buy a XXX 6500-D .Well I guess I'll have to go back on my search for an amp. :-( Any reccomendations as to a substitute?" After they went offshore, SS became a completely different company more focused on quantity ($) than quality. It's relative, really. Because compared to what they once were, they ARE garbage. But they are nowhere near the likes of Boss and Pyramid. Also, I've owned an Audiobum DT amp, and it was very solid, and never cut off or even ran hot. And this was in Atlanta heat behind a speaker box. I would personally remove SS and Audiobum from the poor list (as much as I hate Audiobum) and place it in the value list. Depending on the model in mention, both are at least worthy of Hifonics status. Now that SS XXX 6500 is a beast. It will produce in excess of 7000 watts provided you have ample current to run through it. Very solid. All SS (even among the new breed) are not created equal. The XXX and the (extremely ugly) Human Reign in particular. "i was looking into the rainbow slc series components ... just wondering if you guys used any of them... cuz i know that rainbow is notorious for great speakers i have never heard this series ..." We're in the exact same boat, Mike |
|
Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11525 Registered: Dec-03 | my whiteass it's more intricate. cockbait just stole my work, changed a few words, and took credit. nice. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 69 Registered: Jul-06 | Did I miss something?Lol.So the SS XXX6500-D is a good amp? |
|
Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4373 Registered: Aug-05 |
think i found the whiteass remark. lol |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 72 Registered: Jul-06 | I'm confused about the SoundStream amps One moment he says poor quality,the next says very solid. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2424 Registered: May-05 | The SS in the "Audiophile" section is the old Soundstream. It was great work. The new Soundstream does not come close to the tolerances, power supply, and just build quality of the old References (not to mention the true class A design). But even now with the newer models, some SS lines are better than others. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2425 Registered: May-05 | "i was looking into the rainbow slc series components ... just wondering if you guys used any of them... cuz i know that rainbow is notorious for great speakers i have never heard this series ... hoping u guys have some input on them ..." I was looking for info on my subs and came across this: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113699&highlight=flatline |
|
Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11532 Registered: Dec-03 | soundstream as mentioned used to be great when they started. after being bought by power acoustik and such.. they went downhill.. so where they rank depends on which amp you choose. rainbow makes a very laid back, smooth sounding speaker, much like dynaudio. If you like that non aggressive, not overly harsh sound, they are fantastic given you can find, and afford them. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 88 Registered: Jul-06 | So is the Sounstream XXX 6500-D a good amp? |
|
Silver Member Username: ZacdavisBeloit, Wi Post Number: 493 Registered: Dec-03 | Robert, the 6500 has one purpose. Is it a good amp?, well it does what it was intended to do, get loud, thats all. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 89 Registered: Jul-06 | Well I guess it sucks then. |
|
Silver Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 363 Registered: Aug-04 | i dont think that the brahma is very power hungry like it says in the post...i can get my brahma to full excursion with 5-6 hundred watts... |
|
Bronze Member Username: Nyyfan13Post Number: 49 Registered: Jul-06 | i was checking out the amp list up there, and i saw MA Audio under poor. i was wondering if MA Audio stands for Massive Audio? if it doesnt then can someone tell me if Massive Audio amps are good or not? thanks |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2427 Registered: May-05 | "i dont think that the brahma is very power hungry like it says in the post...i can get my brahma to full excursion with 5-6 hundred watts..." Clearly the poster didn't know what he was talking about here. I gave mine the suggested amount of 1600w (out of necessity) and it tore the former out of the vc. 600-800 watts is optimal under most conditions. "Well I guess [the 6500] sucks then." Curious as to what else you would have it do besides effectively amplify sound? |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 95 Registered: Jul-06 | Well...sure it may effectively amplify sound but does that mean it is durable?No.Sure it may produce power but what does the power sound like out of it?I mean I've gotten so many different opinions on it...I don't know if its a good amp or not and that is why I asked.I don't want to spend money for a product that only works for a day before it burns up.Sure it may get loud but is it a reliable product, and does it produce anything that remotely resembles music?But if it's not good then what are some alternatives that have about the same power output? |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2430 Registered: May-05 | "Sure it may get loud but is it a reliable product?" The guts tell a true story: http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_XXX6500/inside2.jpg Off the bat, I'm certainly no amp expert. I just dig reliability (I'm more focused on what sounds good. I.e., speakers). But as a rule the power supply of an amp and the tolerances to which it is constructed is a prime delineating factor when it comes to quality amps-unfortunately a very rare breed nowadays. This amp has huge torroidal coils, 8awg cables, and fifteen 35V caps. The output rails from the power supply have ten 150V caps. This is an extreme over engineering luxury indicative of its ability to endure SPL comp abuse. So basically, again, the amp will get continuously loud provided it's supplied with a proportional amount of voltage. With your average "daily driver" HO 200-400amp alternator, the amp is "only" going to yield about 2-3000watts. The price tag on this thing is such bc it basically has no limit in sight as to the amount of voltage it can receive with a directly proportional amount of output. So you would be wasting your money, imo, unless you are a true spl competitor (which I would presume if you were looking to run the promoted 6500 watts). "what are some alternatives that have about the same power output?" Although Orion, like Soundstream, is nothing that it once was (Glasswolf has the true OG beasts in his charger) the Orion 2500d has a comparable power supply capable of withstanding up to 4000 watts (it has resistors mixed with tolerances of 1% and 5%). If you are looking at daily driving it does 1800watts with a 170amp alternator, but does 2500watts at 12.5volts (with a 15.5v max). It can be had for 350-750.00 depending on the seller. I could go on about amps all day, though. While I am more concerned with the quality of sound produced by speakers (amps reproduce no sound, they amplify it) I certainly agree with you that it's always a great and secure feeling to know that you have a sturdy second heart to your system (the alternator would be the first ). The fact is though, that for most systems, DEI quality amps are more than (or at least) adequately built for any quality competition grade system (not necessarily SPL comp, though). "and does it produce anything that remotely resembles music?" While I certainly see your point, anything at 6500-7000 watts is not going to even sound remotely like music, lol. Rather, as Zac eloquently stated, it's going to be LOUD. And then factor in that it is a class D amp...If you are looking for a clean amplified signal then I would suggest class A, A/B, G, T...pretty much anything but class D amplification. I run 800-1600 watts of clean A/B power to my subs even though you supposedly don't sonically realize the difference that does (most significantly) exist. And b4 anyone starts shooting off about the so-called technologically advanced "full range" class D Pioneer and Eclipse amps, they still do no justice as it relates to sq. I would admit that class D is a practical alternative to A/B for subs, but it's pushing it for your front stage (and if I run A/B to my subs then you know it's just not even an option for my front stage ) If I may ask, what kind of system will you be pushing? Marshall and Zack are pretty much the SPL guys I personally recall on this forum. The ilk is basically out of my league. But I know a good amp, and love mentally analyzing all systems of quality. Sounds like you're a quality minded guy. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2431 Registered: May-05 | And I see you are also in Chicago. I'm on the S. Side. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Th3pwn3rChicago, Illinois U.S.A Post Number: 96 Registered: Jul-06 | w00t Southside! I actually live in Chicago Ridge now, right by Westfield Shopping Center(Ex-Chicago Ridge Mall).Yea I am into quality,I mentioned that in another thread when we got into women, a "Quality or Quantity" thread.Yes I like quality As far as a system goes... right now I'm just looking for a Sub(s) and amp(s) combo,I'll dump money into my mid's and highs next month.I don't want my system to be all SPL but I want something extremely loud as well.I want to be able to drive up to a red light,hear some guys system and then put him to shame I'm stuck in Limbo in a sense,I'm having a hard time deciding what to run but I'm open minded and value anybody's opinion.Maybe you could teach me a thing or two mikechec,I came here to learn so... |
|
Silver Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 365 Registered: Aug-04 | mikechec9...yea i about did the same with my brahma 15 mk1...i gave it 1400 the first time i installed it and noticed it was WAY to much power...haha...i about killed it...brahmas are not power hogs...they can do AMAZING things with little power...right now i have mine 3 cubes sealed with 700 watts and its awesome... |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2434 Registered: May-05 | The Brahma's the best sounding sub I've ever heard...period (or three periods). So I'm really looking forward to these babies. I just literally can't stand owning/promoting a brand that does not value their customers. Specifically me. So I flat out sold them. This particular pair was one of only 30 subs ever made: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/768492/2 I've been without them for a very long while though, so I'm over them. Ready to get with my new ladies |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2435 Registered: May-05 | The Brahma's the best sounding sub I've ever heard...period (or three periods). So I'm really looking forward to these babies. I just literally can't stand owning/promoting a brand that does not value their customers. Specifically me. So I flat out sold them. This particular pair was one of only 30 subs ever made: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/768492/2 I've been without them for a very long while though, so I'm over them. Ready to get with my new ladies |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2436 Registered: May-05 | I hate when that happens |
|
Silver Member Username: Mike_anthesCanton, SD USA Post Number: 367 Registered: Aug-04 | haha yea...i have a guy that recones a lot of different kinds of subs(including the xxx, brahmas and other similar subs)...so i will send it in to him...cuz i don't want to wait 6 months for a flippen recone by adire audio...one of my buddies just bought an 05 xxx 15 from him and it sounds amazing and its not even broken in yet... |
|
Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11541 Registered: Dec-03 | Adire themselves actually stated that the Brahma v1 could reach peak excursion with 600WRMS, in the proper sealed enclosure. The poster was correct. MA Audio is MA Audio. They used to be known as Mobile Authority. They are not the same as Massive Audio. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2441 Registered: May-05 | "Adire themselves actually stated that the Brahma v1 could reach peak excursion with 600WRMS, in the proper sealed enclosure. The poster was correct." Therefore, the poster was incorrect. "The Brahma is a popular sub, but very power hungry, needs over 1K watts rms." |
|
Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 1844 Registered: Dec-05 | yeah! phase linear is audiophile, i own one, i got it out of my sister's car and is pretty cool for components hahahhaha a free good amp!!!!!! |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics