Just bought 2 12w6v2's mono amp or two channel amp?
|
Bronze Member Username: Pike110Post Number: 55 Registered: Oct-05 | I was wondering if I should get a 2 channel amp or a mono amp to run these. Was most likely going to go with kicker 850.2 |
|
Silver Member Username: CtmikeCt. Post Number: 639 Registered: Feb-06 | mono amps the best for subs, though you can use two channel if you want. |
|
Gold Member Username: Dustin3Tigard, Or U.S. Post Number: 1218 Registered: Oct-05 | it really doesnt matter. whatever will be capatible with the subs |
|
Bronze Member Username: Pike110Post Number: 56 Registered: Oct-05 | ok, just making sure it didn't make a big difference before i buy. Thanks guys |
|
Silver Member Username: JohammbassCork, Cork Ireland Post Number: 139 Registered: May-06 | Well, it does make a difference. 2ch bridged will give you more SQ, but it will also use more current per watt. I personaly don't like mono blocks, 2ch makes it more accurate and more controlled bass. Mono block is a sloppy thing (and I have tried a few) |
|
Silver Member Username: JohammbassCork, Cork Ireland Post Number: 140 Registered: May-06 | Yeah, BTW, all you mono block lovers out there, I have this big question for you - if the class D is so good, efficiant and so on, then why don't they make stereo amps in class D???  The reason is - in mids and highs you would clearly hear how crappy class D sounds. And they know, that they could make just about anything to power the subs, as long as they go boom,boom no one cares |
|
Gold Member Username: Dustin3Tigard, Or U.S. Post Number: 1219 Registered: Oct-05 | there isnt that much of a diff. most everyone who had subs have a mono amp so ur statement is irrelevent. 2-ch givin u more sq? wtf. there isnt a hige diff like ur sayin |
|
Silver Member Username: JohammbassCork, Cork Ireland Post Number: 161 Registered: May-06 | OK bassman, why don't you get in www.zapco.com then click on products, competition, C2K 9.0, then download manual in PDF, then READ on page 37. I don't know, maybe you simply don't get it. IF the class D were clean amps, wouldn't they make class D operation for full range amplifiers since the efficiency is so much better with class D vs AB?????????? Just READ the question and think hard about it. |
|
Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 3799 Registered: Feb-05 | JL Slash Series amps are a great example of how good class D's sound with subs. I whould put a JL 1000/1 on 2 12w6v2's and call it a decade. |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 924 Registered: Apr-05 | Maris, I am not trying to get in an argument with you, but we talked about this before. In a subwoofer setting, the results between a class D and class AB amp would be negligible, really. Obviously, they are not going to make a class D amp for full range becuase A) it is easier to tell sound clarity in higher frequencies and B) most people don't need 1000 wrms to power coaxials or compenent speakers. When it comes to powering a large subwoofer (or a couple for that matter) you want to be as efficient as possible. Or you are going to be drawing WAY TOO much current at that wattage level and only being maybe 50% efficient, it's not worth it. Besides, all that Zapco thing was saying is that they made a Class D amplifier that has good sound quality, putting themselves above other car audio companies. I don't know where this helps in your argument. We are talking about powering SUBS not MIDS and HIGHS like stated in the Zapco manual. Again, not trying to argue, rather just having an intellegent conversation. I hate argueing anyway! |
|
New member Username: Foxracer166Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | i bought a kicker solo baric 12 and am wundering wat the best affordable amp would be |
|
Silver Member Username: James_gTN Post Number: 492 Registered: Jul-05 | Class D mono. There's no need to worry about the SQ of a Class D Vs. an A/B amp when powering a sub. It's really not audible. I would never consider a 2-channel amp for powering subs. |
|
Bronze Member Username: BelieveIllinois Post Number: 58 Registered: Jun-05 | i guess its time for me to get in this one.. class d vs a/b the difference is audible! BUT....... BUT... BUT... lemme tell yall why its argued about class d amps have distortion hidden in the very upper frequencies.. like 100hz - 200hz class d amps hide that distortion in a couple ways 1. not many club banging tracks have basslines that get that high 2. you've been told to keep your low pass filters at 80hz and lower.. and thats only if you have 150rms mids in the door to fill the void! so if your playing music that doesnt reach a high frequency very often.. and if your adjusting your amp with a 40hz-50hz test tone ..well your far away from the audible distortion (until you turn the radio back on and come across those notes every so often) if you have ever watched a subwoofer move 1hz - 10hz you would understand how hard it would be to distort that wave.. first would be latency between the waves.. and thats waaay before the wave turns square and clips that right there is why class d is for 'sub sonic frequencies' subwoofers are made to get in the teens.. thats sub sonic.. which is sub = subwoofer all the regs that you guys look up to have already told you class d is bad for mids and highs.. but then didnt tell you when that midrange starts to be destroyed and if you have your lowpass filter at like 40hz or 50hz you dont have nothin to worry about two 8 inch woofers in the door will make up for the frequency gap that you hear when you do a sine wave from 20hz - 20khz ________________________________________________ ok class a/b is short and sweet when they start to distort.. they distort across the entire frequency range.. it would be harder to hear it in a tweeter then in a midrange woofer but thats DUH! a class a/b amp lets you raise the low pass filter safely and a lot more cleaner and because the quality doesnt start at 0hz like a class d amp does.. the musical accuracy is a whole lot better ______________________________________ two channel vs mono block is just convenient i was told that when you drop the resistance the sound quality gets worse so for example 16ohms vs 2ohms.. 16ohms is more accurate.. but @ 2ohms you can hear details better (because its more loud) 16ohms divided by 100 watts is very low output its like a water hose.. your thumb over the end is resistance but your stream is cleaner when you put your thumb over the end its creating resistance in the hose try to make the water stop.. with your thumb over the end of the hose and with the hose runnin by itself its easier to stop all the water by taking your thumb completely off and then putting it completely on its harder to make the water stop if you have your thumb over it and water is squirting after the pressure is built up.. its hard to make the water stop completely when its squirting because you added resistance to the end of the hose the quality of water coming out is better because the water wont stop pouring out as easy |
|
Silver Member Username: JohammbassCork, Cork Ireland Post Number: 185 Registered: May-06 | Thank you |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 938 Registered: Apr-05 | Believe, you still did not help this. We are talking about the difference between powering a **SUBWOOFER** again: **SUBWOOFER**, with a class AB or class D. 90% of the stuff you just said made little to zero sense. "class d amps have distortion hidden in the very upper frequencies.. like 100hz - 200hz" That's great, but once again when it comes to powering a **SUBWOOFER**, youre sub should NEVER see frequencies above 100 hz anyway, so I don't even see where that applies. Even if that statement is true at all. "that right there is why class d is for 'sub sonic frequencies'" Umm... who buys any amp to listen to subsonic frequencies?? Hence the name "sub sonic": you can't hear it!! That statement just did not make sense at all. So even if it was distorting you wouldn't hear it anyway. Plus, if you have a sub in a ported box, you block those frequncies out anyway becuase they will make your sub bottom out if it plays a note below what the box is tuned for, which is usually from 28-38 hz. "subwoofers are made to get in the teens.. thats sub sonic.. which is sub = subwoofer" Again, not true, no point in making a speaker for the sole purpose of that frequency range. Becuase agian, you either aren't going to hear it or it will be blocked out. "a class a/b amp lets you raise the low pass filter safely and a lot more cleaner" What??!! That's if you even wanted to raise the LPF on your subs in the first place, which you wouldn't. The whole last section about 16 ohms vs. 2 ohms thing had nothing to do with what we were talking about, so I don't know why you even put it in there. Listen, if you read everything you just said some of what you say contradicts. Just please get your facts straight before you post like you know what you are talking about. Plus it didn't even address what we were talking about in the first place, which was the audible difference between a class AB and class D amp when powering a **SUBWOOFER**. |
|
Bronze Member Username: BelieveIllinois Post Number: 70 Registered: Jun-05 | you have wiped my @ss enough isaac now quit being an idiot i said simple a class d will distort the upper range of the subwoofer frequency.. actually around 50-60-70 range.. you call it.. while the rest of the frequency range remained clean thats in and out of harmful frequencies a class ab amp will distort the whole spectrum at once so sure.. leave the distortion right at the top and keep your subs from reaching those clipped frequencies but when my lpf is at 80hz i can reach those notes easily do a 40hz 60hz test with a class d and a class ab the 40hz on the class d will be clean long after 60hz has been clipping as for the ab amp.. 40 and 60 clip together why are you talkin stupid about sub sonic frequencies that cant be heard? those are awesome frequencies that are neglected bass is audible correct.. and audible is to 20hz sub woofers are for subsonic bass and the assistance of the woofer i dont have to sit in an spl van to know about sub sonic ocean crashes.. and all the other outstanding experiences you can 'feel' why are these kids buying excursion? for the air pressure not the decibel level they want the girls hair to fly everywhere without having to wear earplugs raising the lpf to 200hz isnt a big deal.. my infinities can handle 20hz - 200hz all day in 100 degree weather and with the right musician it wouldnt be a concern! such as concert bands.. not a bunch of digital interlaced computer crap maris wrote: '2ch bridged will give you more SQ, but it will also use more current per watt.' it gives you more watt and less sound quality! and again.. your subwoofer will distort @ 60hz and not 40hz at the same settings with class d its audible and it happens to cheap amps all the time class ab will distort 40hz and 60hz together and im talking about audible distortion.. not just a change in wave signal now get pissed.. rant and rave.. throw your arms around like the ymca i got books so you cant chap my @ss anymore besides.. wtf did you think i was talkin about tweeters? |
|
Silver Member Username: JohammbassCork, Cork Ireland Post Number: 194 Registered: May-06 | "2ch bridged will give you more SQ, but it will also use more current per watt" - VS MONO BLOCK, THAT WILL GIVE YOU LESS SQ, BUT WILL ASLO USE LESS CURRENT PER WATT. That's how I meant it, so you nobody misunderstands it for - 2ch bridged vs 2ch stereo operation and it's affects on SQ and current per watt. |
|
Bronze Member Username: BelieveIllinois Post Number: 71 Registered: Jun-05 | thats comparing the latency of a mono block (im talkin class d) vs the latency of channel a and channel b in a 2ch amp i do think that if you drop the ohms on a mono class d, the latency will decrease unlike a 2ch amp that will have the same latency regardless of ohm (because the channels are seperate) i also think that a 2ch amp with a bridge selectable switch can defeat that latency by utilizing circuitry to further combine the channels (like a y adaptor for the audio signal) that switch should web channels a and b together as much as circuit possible (infusing the two really) despite what class amp it is 2ch bridged vs mono block = sq / latency |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 940 Registered: Apr-05 | "you have wiped my @ss enough isaac" lol, your an idiot. "i do think that if you drop..." "i also think that a 2ch" Uh oh... somebody is starting to use the word "think" a lot! Meaning: you have no clue what you are talking about and should refrain from typing any other ignorant retarded comments. "a class d will distort the upper range of the subwoofer frequency.. actually around 50-60-70 range.. you call it.." VS. in your orignal post: "class d amps have distortion hidden in the very upper frequencies.. like 100hz - 200hz" Hmmm.... why do you keep talking in circles?? Can you even see out of that hole you have just dug yourself into? "why are you talkin stupid about sub sonic frequencies that cant be heard? those are awesome frequencies that are neglected" Thanks for your opinion retard, let's keep that out of it and stick to facts. Because once again, like I said. A lot people that have subs have ported boxes. Most ported boxes aren't tuned below 28 hz. If you play a note below the tuned frequecy, the sub will bottom out and get damaged. "now get pissed.. rant and rave.. throw your arms around like the ymca" You seem to be the only one ranting here, and about stupid non-related stuff, I might add. Becuase if you look at how the whole conversation started, I wasn't talking about all this technicalities crap. Even if you did know more about car audio than I did, I could care less. The fact of the matter on hand is this: you will not be able to AUDIBLY HEAR the difference between a class AB and a class D amp in a subwoofer application. Period, that is all I am talking about. How many times do I have to say it? Maybe it sunk in this time.... |
|
Silver Member Username: WinnSanta Ana, California US Post Number: 130 Registered: Jun-05 | What's going on here ??? Are you guy talking about different between Class AB and D amp ??? Normally, we always think Class AB will produce more SQ compare to Class D .. but Why ?? It is nothing to do with Upper or Lower Frequencies .... NOT about Frequencies (one more time) Class AB is linear amplifiers and Class D is Nonlinear. goto the below link to findout for yourself http://www.audiodesignline.com/howto/177102531 |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 949 Registered: Apr-05 | Thanks for your imput Winn. But the only real problem here is people like Beleive that run their mouth and think they know everything and really don't. All you have to do is read his posts and you can see for yourself. still chuckling about ME wiping Believes @ss, other way around bro. :shakes head: |
|
Bronze Member Username: BelieveIllinois Post Number: 76 Registered: Jun-05 | ppl talking in circles have a bomb to drop the reason i put my two cents into this thread was because i heard the difference audibly im a horrible man and i have to have some kind of bed made before i go indulge in something and not give a crap about the ending "a class d will distort the upper range of the subwoofer frequency.. actually around 50-60-70 range.. you call it.." VS. in your orignal post: "class d amps have distortion hidden in the very upper frequencies.. like 100hz - 200hz" thats called an ill statement.. and i use it to bring you back for more ive actually got one more fine tune left because i didnt take the test tone maker out to decide on a frequency that i would die behind _______________________________________________ if you plan on bridging a 2ch amp i would go with a mono amp for those two subs a lot of this debate is because of the latency these amps are giving out class d will have severe latency before distortion class ab will have severe distortion before latency duece for does |
|
Bronze Member Username: Pike110Post Number: 64 Registered: Oct-05 | So, in your opinions would I be ok running the 2 12w6v2's with a kicker 850.2 opposed to a mono amp? |
|
Bronze Member Username: BelieveIllinois Post Number: 77 Registered: Jun-05 | put that amp in bridged mode take 2 of the four coils and wire them in parrallel take the other 2 and wire them in series your 50 watts over |
|
Silver Member Username: WinnSanta Ana, California US Post Number: 131 Registered: Jun-05 | Jerrod... it's up to you depend what your music taste is. But in this case, you have 2 12W6v2, I would recommend that you should get a JL 1000/1 (mono) |
|
New member Username: AudiorickEDMONTON, ALBERTA CANADA Post Number: 9 Registered: May-06 | This sounds like a kindergarten class.I'm going to check into another forum.Peacs/Out |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 950 Registered: Apr-05 | BUT WINN!! The 1000/1 is a class D amp! It's gonna have terrible SQ and it will start to distort at 50hz and have severe latency!! :snicker: |
|
Bronze Member Username: AudiorickEDMONTON, ALBERTA CANADA Post Number: 12 Registered: May-06 | This entire site is turning into nothing more than a pissing match,usually between the higher echelon.Very reminiscent of a kindergarten class.I'm checking into a new forum.Peace/Out |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 952 Registered: Apr-05 | ok cool rick, how many times you gonna tell us your leaving? I don't know why you would have a problem with ecoustics anyway, I have been to other forums, ecoustics is by far the best. There are very intelligent people here to have a good conversation with. It's only when noobs that talk like they know fact, do things start to get out of control. Welcome to stay, welcome to leave. |
|
Silver Member Username: WinnSanta Ana, California US Post Number: 132 Registered: Jun-05 | Isaac.. you should missunderstood to the original thread.... Jerrod just asked what amp he should get... he didn't mention anything about SQ setup or whatover.. RICK SALAI.... if you would like to leave this forum... Just LEAVE .. don't need to tell anyone. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Pike110Post Number: 67 Registered: Oct-05 | It is for a sq setup. alpine hu, polk sr6500 comp. and 2 12w6v2's I already have a kicker 850.2, but wondering if that will hurt me in the sq? |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 953 Registered: Apr-05 | lol,yeah i know winn, the whole point of that post was to make fun of the rediculous things that Believe was saying earlier. I totally know, besides the 1000/1 has great SQ, all JL amps do even though it is a class D. That whole argument started becuase me and other people were recommending to him to get a mono amp and then someone had to say that mono class d amps have really bad SQ or something. In any case it made no sense. Class D is fine Jerrod, Go for it! |
|
Silver Member Username: WinnSanta Ana, California US Post Number: 133 Registered: Jun-05 | Jerrod. Kicker 850.2 is NOT a good choice for you on these sub. Amp spec: 295Wx2 at 4ohm (14.4v) and 800w x 1 at 4ohm (14.4v). First Your car electrical won't give you 14.4v, Second, since this is an AB class, so the power only about 60% efficient, that's mean only 60% of 800w. |
|
Silver Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 954 Registered: Apr-05 | You are partly right Winn, yes, more than likely you will not get 14.4v from your alternator unless you have a high output alt. But just becuase it is a class A/B amp that are generally 50% efficient, doesn't mean he won't get all 800 watts. It really does put out 800 wrms, but since a/b is so inefficient, it will take a lot more ampereage from the alternator to make that much power. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Dub_cPost Number: 58 Registered: Mar-06 | There is too much to read, here is what I say, MONO vs. 2 CH amps, I would ALWAYS GO with a MONO amp to power a SUB. There are 2 ch. amps that can be bridged into MONO but why even bother, just buy a MONO AMP. If it is not bridgable into mono your subs become 12"(or whatever size your subs are) speakers. |
|
Bronze Member Username: BelieveIllinois Post Number: 81 Registered: Jun-05 | and i must say.. if your gonna play with 1000 watts rms your gonna need a high output alternator anyway might as well get an ab amp for the subs why? because sound quality rules! |
|
Silver Member Username: JohammbassCork, Cork Ireland Post Number: 203 Registered: May-06 | Winn, Sorry, but you got a little lost there with that 60% efficient stuff Jerrod, Think about it this way: NOBODY will say that SQ would be better on a class D versus AB, if we assume that both cost the same per watt. Right? Right However, there are people (like me) that say there is an audible difference (AB being the winner) There is more people in IASCA SQL competitions that use AB not D for their subs So to be safe: you can't go wrong with a good AB, but you could go wrong with a D. And there is an audible difference. I love the super illogical people that say: "Can't you hear that there is no difference?" Well, maybe I am the one who hears, since I am saying that there is a difference |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics