Inverted subs?
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Bronze Member Username: Logan__tillePost Number: 32 Registered: Feb-06 | do they make a difference in the sound? |
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Silver Member Username: RideredderCornell, IL USA Post Number: 251 Registered: Sep-05 | I've done it once, and I didn't notice a difference. It was a ported box though, if that even matters. |
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Silver Member Username: Camaro823British Colu... Canada Post Number: 292 Registered: Jun-05 | No |
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Bronze Member Username: WinterfreshpimpChisago, MN America Post Number: 46 Registered: Mar-06 | thats mounting it backwards right? |
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Bronze Member Username: Bachatero07Post Number: 52 Registered: Mar-06 | it does make a difference. say the box is in the trunk and the trunk is closed and your back seat is closed. the whole trunk then becomes part of a sealed enclosure for the subs. when you turn the subs inside out, it reverses how the air is traveling. personally, i did not like the sound i was getting from my ported enclosure. they only sound good reversed in a band-pass enclosure. |
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Silver Member Username: PhuktupbassheadPhoenix, Arizona United State... Post Number: 463 Registered: May-05 | I was under the impression that it doesn't matter at all, whether it's front or backwards... the only key is that the air in front of the cone MUST be seperated from the air in back of the cone. It doesn't matter if it's right side up, backwards, or in an infinate baffle setup. The common feature is the seperation of air from front and back of cone. I'm pretty sure that's all that matters. I could be wrong. If so, I hope someone corrects me. |
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Gold Member Username: TdbdadrummerWellsburg, WV USA Post Number: 1476 Registered: Aug-05 | It DOESN'T make a difference. Ask GW/Jonathan/Joe Smoe/Isaac. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN OUTPUT OR SOUND QUALITY! This has been a topic of interest for as long as I can remember, and everytime it leads to arguments, until someone whips out the 12Volt site or bcae1 site, and proves the people arguing about it wrong. If anything, inverting makes it more complicated.... |
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Silver Member Username: PhuktupbassheadPhoenix, Arizona United State... Post Number: 466 Registered: May-05 | Tyler: so is my thinking on the right pathway here? Also, I can't help but ask: what do you mean more complicated? and why? |
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Gold Member Username: TdbdadrummerWellsburg, WV USA Post Number: 1494 Registered: Aug-05 | I've heard that it's a bit more of a hassle due to enclosure specifications. But basically, it doesn't help or hurt the woofer. The key is just making sure the airspace given to the woofer is what is neccessary. |
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Gold Member Username: 54danny54Betsy layne, Kentucky..GO... USA duh Post Number: 1973 Registered: Nov-04 | actually inverting ur sub can save a little space because u can subtract the displacment of the woofer from the box volume, because the magnet is outside. so it isnt very complicated at all. the hard part is really reversing the poles...whcih is super super easy anyways lol |
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Bronze Member Username: Logan__tillePost Number: 33 Registered: Feb-06 | how do you reverse the poles? |
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Gold Member Username: RovinTrinidad & T... Post Number: 6477 Registered: Jul-05 | hey guys don't bust a blood vessel arguing - just read >>>>>. http://wickedcases.com/caraudio/inverted.html |
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Silver Member Username: Islandboy808Mililani, Hawaii US Post Number: 740 Registered: Nov-05 | Nice Rovin you ended it right therr |
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Gold Member Username: TdbdadrummerWellsburg, WV USA Post Number: 1500 Registered: Aug-05 | Didn't I tell you someone would just whip out a website from behind their back  . |
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Silver Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 405 Registered: Jan-06 | I reversed mine and it does sound different, better actually. It seems like my bass hits harder. The one thing I don't get is the name of the game is to move air, right? Well the back of the sub is cone shaped, which physically would displace air much slower then a flat, blunt surface like the front of the sub. The front moves more air so in a ported enclosure it should move more air through the ports faster resulting in increased loudness? A nother known benefit is increased coil cooling which should result in more power. I could see where in a sealed enclosure maybe a weakly supported sub could distort under such compression, especially a high excursion sub. I wonder if there is anyone out there with any viable data and not stuff from the 80s? Polo.. |
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Gold Member Username: RovinTrinidad & T... Post Number: 6500 Registered: Jul-05 | Tyler - well good thing there r sites like GW's , bcae1 & the12.com Saves me & others too a ton of typing .......  |
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Silver Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 409 Registered: Jan-06 | I have seen this site, which is Glasswolf's site but all I see is words, no data. I have searched and only found a few sites with the same words but even then, no data, where's the proof? Polo.. PS- I don't believe in god, no proof there either, lol |
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Silver Member Username: TafkamTexas Post Number: 246 Registered: Apr-04 | I guess that means my Hifonics amps really don't have "power from the gods" then must be from the alternator and the battery. Burst my bubble will you...... |
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Silver Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 410 Registered: Jan-06 | That is why they are over rated! Now you can guess where Kicker gets there power from can you, lol ?   |
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Bronze Member Username: FiberPost Number: 18 Registered: Mar-06 | I inverted my audiobahn i have for now and it seemed to hit deep bass better but not as good with the highs, I could be wrong. |
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Silver Member Username: TafkamTexas Post Number: 253 Registered: Apr-04 | Kicker = Sat*n. Yep, makes sense to me. Kind of like "prop me up besides the jukebox if I die" which I am listening to right now. Depends on which way your head is laying on the floor. |
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Silver Member Username: PhuktupbassheadPhoenix, Arizona United State... Post Number: 468 Registered: May-05 | I clicked on glasswolf's website, but there's nothing explaining the reversed polarity thing! can someone please explain exactly what that means and how it needs to be done? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2243 Registered: May-05 | Whenever the bass hits (attacks), your speaker pushes outward off of the front of the cone (when wired "in phase" pos to pos, neg to neg). If you flip the sub, it will be firing in toward the enclosure. You want your soundwaves to exit off of the rear of the cone now (since it's inverted). Basically, just switch the pos/neg wires at the amp. |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2244 Registered: May-05 | The difference is a matter of surface area. it just so happens that the area of the rear of the cone is the same as that of the front. So there is no difference, except where the cone connects to the former. Regardless, there is no audible difference unless your sub has mechanical noise eminating from the motor. In which case it would be best to "enclose" the structure so as to conceal the noise. |
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Silver Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 429 Registered: Jan-06 | See this is where I have a problem, regardless of if both surface areas are equal, one is going to move a given volume of air quicker then the other. The front of the sub will occupy a given space much quicker than the rear which is cone shaped and has a gradual displacement. Try it, take a rocket for instance, one that is pointy and one that has a flat surface on it, now tell me which one is going to push more air and why? I just think there is more to it, that's all. Polo.. |
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Silver Member Username: Nnnnick_bWeddington, Nc Usa Post Number: 460 Registered: Jan-05 | Bass reproduction isn't just about the moving of air. It is also about the rarification of air. Also, based on your argument, it shouldnt matter b/c, even tho the back of the woofers cone cant displace as much air or/and as quickly, the front of the cone is still facing in towards the box, Thus allowing for greater pressurization and rarification of air in side the box.(based on your argument). It just doesnt matter. I have reveresed my subs countless time and it never sounds different, no matter the enclosure. The only difference would be that in general it appears to "hit deeper" but this is b/c the box has a larger volume due to the reversal of the sub(magnet no longer in box). |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2247 Registered: May-05 | The difference is that we are working with vibrations here. And the cone of a sub is much different than one of a mid-range. At low frequencies, a cone moves essentially as a single unit. And remember, the lower the frequency, the longer the actual wave (between 10-60 ft). http://www.mcsquared.com/wavelength.htm At higher frequencies the wavelength is much closer to the radius of the cone. This is when the cone no longer moves as one unit (as with the sub model). Essentially, the wave here begins at the base of the cone (at the former joint I spoke of earlier) and moves outward towards the edge of the cone. When the wave hits the edge of the cone, it is reflected back toward the base of the cone again...etc. So, reversing the cone of a midrange would be a poor idea from a reproductive stand point (of course you could show the bling on the backside of your 5.25 audiobahn of choice) So, if the sub just moved outward "pushing" the air in front of it, you would have a cleaner case. But it vibrates, producing actual waves omni-directionally/in all directions (unlike the projectile example given). The rarefaction moves the same electrons which, in turn, push on the same subsequent electrons in either scenario. And, from a sq perspective, the waves at low frequencies are still too long to be affected by the orientation of the cone. So, no matter if we're speaking sq or spl, inverting won't make an audible difference (motor noise aside). |
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Silver Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 430 Registered: Jan-06 | I know what rarification is. It is just the spreading out after compression. Bass is just sound reproduction on the lower HZ level usually below 200hz (usually). Sound reproduction in general is the compression and rarification (spreading) of electrons within a given medium, actually has nothing to do with air at all. If indeed the shape of the cone has nothing to do with performance or compression then there wouldn't have been countless number of dollars spent on the developement of flat piston-type subwoofers in the industries. On that note, differences of excursion wouldn't have any effect if what you said was absolute. Polo.. |
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Silver Member Username: PhuktupbassheadPhoenix, Arizona United State... Post Number: 473 Registered: May-05 | So, it's not good to invert a sub and leave the positive/negative terminals hooked up the way they were originally? Is it actually bad for the sub? |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Post Number: 2252 Registered: May-05 | No. It is not bad for the sub. In fact, it is often good to reverse the polarity on drivers. E.g., my 3" are currently located high in the doors. When they cross-fire at eachother, they xcl the opposing 3". So, I reverse the phase on one driver to make the waves "spoon" instead of cxl. Also, some multi sub systems may sound better when some drivers are wired out of phase for the same reason. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11378 Registered: Dec-03 | proof? take a physics class. speakers compress and rarefy air. they displace the same amount of air in both directions from center (rest.) so inverted or not, they're going to displace the same amount of air inside the box, and outside of the box. Now if you can make a reasonable argument for why inverting a sub would have any effect on output I'd be interested to consider it, or refute it.. whichever is appropriate. The only difference you'll really make is net enclosure volume, since you're moving the mass of the driver from inside the box to outside of the box, and thus altering the net enclosure volume, which affects driver response. What sort of proof were you looking for? |
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