okay id be interested in anything you can tell me about cancelation. i have a sealed box that is almost a square and baffle and back are definetly parallel. could be seeing cancelation? how much does cancelation usually take away form the sound? is it a huge difference? i cant figure out what is wrong with my setp. it cant be the amp. i tuned it today to put out 1030wrms.... and i know its not the sub (mag 15) i know the sub has capabilities of being painful and this was just loud, nothing special. so it must be the box, right? i know many eople have mags in sealed boxes and they are beasts. and ported is too much (but not for me ) but for now im too agrivated so im going without bass until i get my ported box built and if i see a problem with output i'll try hooking up my friends eDnine.1 and see how that turns out. but man i hope its not the amp./ those 1000/1s are so expensive... but power is power... it cant be the amp....
worry more about cencellation from subs facing each other, or being out of phase. Generally sub boxes are too small to complete a wavelength at the frequencies they handle, so you don't get cancellation even if the box is actually square. If you're worried about it, just add some polyfill. that will handle any cencellation inside the box.
already have polyfil.... and im runing 1 sub right now.. 1000w to it. the dmm reads 64V and at 4 ohms thats over 1000w but tomorrow i'll use the clamp meter too.... ima hook a ednine.1 to it tomorrow too. i'll let ya guys know how it goes! thanks!
okay i used the clamp meter too and i got a reading of like 968w rms at 60hz i think it was. im gonna call up my friend to go hook his eDnine.1 up. im really hoping theres something that happened to the box that im not aware of and thats why its not loud. well its loud, but not loud enough to feel inside. and i KNOW a mag 15 is way more than capable of that. if its not the amp im going to hook up a different HU too to see if thats it. im GOING to figure this out! lol wish me luck, thanks guys
i will be porting it. but i want to make sure nothing else is wrong. ebcause ported this thing should hit 145... and its at like 130 now (guessing , my spl meter read 126 at 52/80 volume, i tune at 60 volume, so appx 130 at 60/80 on a TL prolly) and going fomr sealed to a daily ported shouldnt get you 15db lol. but im leaving now to go find out if its the amp.
okay, the ednine.1 proved something else was wrong. i had to turn the gain up ALL the way to not even reach full power, that means that my output voltage coming from my HU is EXTREMELY low. when i played a 50hz tone i got a reading of 385w rms. andit was louder than when i had my JL amp on it. can running extrememly low output voltage to an amp over a long period of time hurt the amp? im going to hook up a different HU when i have time to see if the amp works okay, but as of right now i may be looking into a new HU and new Amp. i dont get why the reading from the clamp and regular dmm read 968w from the JL amp though and 385 form the ED and the ED made it louder... power is power i thought... but thats the story right now. i dont have time to hook up the other HU right now. let me know if you guys have any ideas... (btw the highs are running through an eclipse EQ so their signal is boosted) thanks guys.
There is no way the eD made it louder if it was putting out less power. I'd guess the reading was wrong. You need to put the eD on a dmm and verify via voltage, and only go by the voltage reading. You also need to set the gain as soon as the amplifier turns on and try to use a resistor on it- once voice coils heat up the impedance will go up by a rather large amount.
Second, what were you using the clamp meter on? Remember that you can only use a clamp meter on one conductor. If more than one conductor were to be passed through then the measurement would be a sum of the currents flowing in the conductors and could be very misleading depending on the phase relationship of the currents. The other thing is that cheap clamp meters (if yours is so) use an average-detecting rectifier circuit that is then calibrated to read in RMS units. With these it is assumed that the current is a sine wave of the local mains frequency, which is either 50 or 60 Hz. If any of these assumptions are violated, the reading will be highly inaccurate. The wave has to be a pure wave similar to what you'd get from an AC wall socket, it can't be clipped, nor can harmonics take a huge effect if you want an accurate reading.
How do you have the sub(s) wired? Series or parallel?
JL gives their tutorial on gain setting with a DMM, though. If you get the correct voltage reading from this (no resistor required), then it's proof that your problems are elsewhere.
i have the coils wired in series for a 4 ohm load. i had the clamp meter on the positive wire going to the sub. thats where its suposed to be right? but the nine.1 was definetly not pushing as hard as it could and i had the gain up all the way. there is definetly something wrong with the preouts of my HU. and i did use the dmm on both amps. the reading of amps on the JL was much higher than the nine.1 (peaked at like 6.5A) can an amp be ruined by running it off a very low signal for a long time? i dont know whats wrong its making me very mad. when i get back fomr vacation im going to hook up a different Hu and see what results from that. i wish i could get all the retail money back and start over with new products so i could fix whats wrong lol. thanks guys for your efforts so far. i'll keep filling you in.
"i dont get why the reading from the clamp and regular dmm read 968w from the JL amp though and 385 form the ED and the ED made it louder... power is power i thought... but thats the story right now. i dont have time to hook up the other HU right now. let me know if you guys have any ideas..."
power is power, but each amplifier derrive their power diffrently...
this is just a example, not real #s...
ampA puts out 1000rms @ 55v 20a ampB puts out 1000rms @ 40v 30a ampC puts out 1000rms @ 80v 15a
but what kind of HU you are using??? I doubt its like my old as alpine 1v out... look into AudioControl, get a 3-1 or a 4-1.. it will get you up to 13v on the rcas if needed!
im running a eclipse flipscreen with 5.1 dolby decoding. its suposed to have 8V preouts.
when i redo my stuff im going to get 2 audiocontrol EQs. one for the highs and one for the bass.
i know how they can arrive at 1000w differently. but what i dont get is why the reading was 968 fromt he JL and not as loud as 385 fomr the ED. i think im literally going to redo EVERYTHING so tat there cna be no mistakes. starting with the most important thing. 250A alt, 0ga big 3, kinetic monster. then a new HU (maybe pioneer avic n1, maybe alpine d310, maybe a new eclipse.. idk) i still think i want to do JL amps. there so awesome. although those ed amps were pretty cool. but i wish i had a way to make more money lol. its going to take me forever to get all that money. tomorrow i leave for vacation but when i get back i'll be doing more work. i'll keep ya guys posted. thanks alot!
"power is power, but each amplifier derrive their power diffrently...
this is just a example, not real #s...
ampA puts out 1000rms @ 55v 20a ampB puts out 1000rms @ 40v 30a ampC puts out 1000rms @ 80v 15a
but what kind of HU you are using??? I doubt its like my old as alpine 1v out... look into AudioControl, get a 3-1 or a 4-1.. it will get you up to 13v on the rcas if needed!"
The equation P = V^2/R, where P = power (watts), V is voltage, and R is impedance (ohm) is always true regardless of amplifier. The amount of current flow is determined solely by impedance. The power that can be delivered to the speaker is determined by the amount of voltage that can be delivered to the speaker.
BTW, I'm not saying current is a constant with an amplifier. It does vary, but the variance is determined by voltage output at a given power level.
Most people know the equation Power= Voltage x Amps, BUT this is applicable to DC voltage mainly. Note that it is still true for AC voltage, but you cannot use it to determine power output because it only relates to an instantaneous measurement (relative to the position in the waveform). With AC, voltage varies sinusoidally. Therefore, if we want to find the average power used, then we must take the average of the power at each time interval. Mathematically this is known as Integration.
Say you have an amplifier that can supply 300W at 4 ohm. It's going to take a voltage output of ~34.6V to accomplish this (see above power equation as reference). So your current will be around 8.67A to get this (34.6 x 8.67 = 300)
If you drop that amplifier to 150W, it's going to take ~24.5V to get this power level. Which would be a current draw of 6.12A (24.5 x 6.12 = 150).
With either of these amplifiers, you couldn't independantly increase current output to get more power, it will always be relative to voltage output. You'll also notice that when comparing both power levels, current and voltage have increased by the square root of 2 (that is, 1.41) Note that this isn't exactly accurate because I rounded off some of these numbers. We're getting into a lot of trigonometry here, more than I care to post , so just note that this increase (1.41) is because we're taking average power of the waveform into account.
The difference between a voltage amplifier and a current amplifier isn't the way that they amplify, it's because the high current amplifier has more output devices and is capable of suppling more current in order to run lower impedances. Basically, it just has more headroom as far as current is concerned.
LOL Johnathan already know that, was giving a very simple example... I know all those formulas, how to rearrange them, and plenty plenty more.
"With AC, voltage varies sinusoidally. Therefore, if we want to find the average power used, then we must take the average of the power at each time interval. Mathematically this is known as Integration. "
the speaker output is AC voltage we know that, the average power used is also the real power, RMS.
"The difference between a voltage amplifier and a current amplifier isn't the way that they amplify, it's because the high current amplifier has more output devices and is capable of suppling more current in order to run lower impedances. Basically, it just has more headroom as far as current is concerned." ^^^^^^^ Agreed with this statement.
) but for now im too agrivated so im going without bass until i get my ported box built and if i see a problem with output i'll try hooking up my friends eDnine.1 and see how that turns out. but man i hope its not the amp./ those 1000/1s are so expensive... but power is power... it cant be the amp....
; u know u like it loud man..... or atleast give 1K each!