Who Are The Forum Gurus? Oops..Doesn't Matter.
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1920 Registered: May-05 | hate to be labled "gossip man". but i told you their forum manner was a bit lacking. not certain what the minimum age is on the forum, but the tantrums thrown here are pretty sad. imo, anyway. http://www.caraudio.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1371523&postcount=480 http://forum.carstereos.org/t57617-ology-audio-pulls-out-of-adire-build-houses.h tml |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1921 Registered: May-05 | imo, it's a shame b/c i think it probably could have been a great venture. now is a prime time for new car audio products to come out, as so many are being off-shored and cheapened to maximize profit. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5178 Registered: May-04 | If you want to know the truth, I think it was a dumbass design waiting to happen anyway. As mixneffect has pointed out in constant contradictions with Mr. Rich (Feandil), the specs didn't match up, don't make sense, and seem like a mistake waiting to happen. I can see where Dan had to step in and explain some things to him. You can't fight physics. An 8.9 gram paper cone driver is going to be a nightmare as far as energy storage. Then he referred to Adires Extremis as "crap" since it doesn't have the efficiency of the midrange he designed. Focal tried the high efficiency midrange a while back with the Audiom 6W. It seemed like a good concept, high efficiency midrange, mms of 6.6 grams, relatively low inductance, high efficiency, high power handling. The result was that it was decent (and only decent) at producing midrange, requiring enormous amounts of tuning to sound anything close to natural, and sounded like trash above 2khz because of huge resonances due to the lack of damping and rigidity. Once I realized who the guy was and a reminder from a guy on CAC, this is the guy that was decieving bidders and people on CAF and tried ripping people off on E Bay with some home made speakers and claiming they were remakes of high dollar home audio drivers. They need to learn to have a sense of self control for the reason of promoting their business. Nothing I've seen has hinted at respect for the customer or for the designer/builder of these drivers. They aren't exactly drawing in potential customers. |
|
Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1924 Registered: May-05 | "Nothing I've seen has hinted at respect for the customer or for the designer/builder of these drivers. They aren't exactly drawing in potential customers." that was my point from jump. while i can't vouch for the inadequacies of the design (as i exited out the thread after what i deemed to be rude comments directed towards other members), having a basic concept and a report with a great like dan to point you out of error... well it seems like a grand oportunity to do something right. perhaps a matter of galloping before crawling. regardless though Jonathan, i'm curious as to what you're doing with your plans for speaker production (surely it must exist). i mean if anything is an inspiration... and 20, 000.00 doesn't seem unreasonable (i'd invest). i'm sure you could do better than the majority of guys out there. and have you noted this at all? http://buwaldahybrids.com/Team%20Hybrids%20Sponsorship%20Opportunities.htm figured your abitility and location... ?  |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5183 Registered: May-04 | "regardless though Jonathan, i'm curious as to what you're doing with your plans for speaker production (surely it must exist)." hehe. I have dreams, but my preferences wouldn't be as marketable as the "ooh look at the x-max on that midbass driver!" speaker designs out there. I wouldn't doubt seeing tweeters with a 3mm x-max before too long. I retailed car audio long enough to find out where the industry was swinging, and unfortunately the demand for high end SQ drivers is dwindling, in the US at least. The last thing I wanted to do was have a shop based upon throwing SPL boxes together and measuring SPL levels, it's not my cup of tea. I had a lot more passion for car audio in the 80s and 90s when it was about more than imports, fiberglass, rims and f@rt cannons, but all I want is a simple system with a stock looking install. Focus on the essentials. Which brings me to the Ranger project. In the end I decided I was better off leaving audio as a hobby and not a business, I've worked in both business and manufacturing long enough to know I don't want to run my own. But anyway, I do have some ideas, but in my head more than on paper. "and have you noted this at all? http://buwaldahybrids.com/Team%20Hybrids%20Sponsorship%20Opportunities.htm" Maybe I'll apply once I get a half decent competition vehicle (doesn't get 10mpg on road trips ). Once I get everything paid off I'll be back to my bigger hobby of fixing old cars (which got me into this hobby in the first place). A 67 Mustang Fastback is a surprisingly good vehicle for acoustics, with a little work, anyway. Huge kick panels, flat dash, no huge center consoles or door panels, just a clean layout. |
|
Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 255 Registered: Jul-05 | why dont you make me a speaker jonothan ill pay you |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5190 Registered: May-04 | "why dont you make me a speaker jonothan ill pay you :-) " I'm not even making any for myself . I'll recommend one, though: SEAS Lotus 7" + SEAS Lotus 4" midrange + LCY 130 Ribbon tweeter. It'll be like sex. |
|
Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 257 Registered: Jul-05 | hmmmmmmmm as far as 2 way is concerned what should i copp imma bit torn kickbass profi rainbow? james got me hip to chads new driver? and all i have is a hole for a 5.25  what seas or what ever do you recomend for me only having 5.25 of space? and if it gotta be a 6.5 is there a way to put it in without panels or pods. Your gonna have the installer pissd at me for telling him how to do his job lmao |
|
Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 258 Registered: Jul-05 | hmmmmmmmm as far as 2 way is concerned what should i copp imma bit torn kickbass profi rainbow? james got me hip to chads new driver? and all i have is a hole for a 5.25 what seas or what ever do you recomend for me only having 5.25 of space? and if it gotta be a 6.5 is there a way to put it in without panels or pods. Your gonna have the installer pissd at me for telling him how to do his job lmao |
|
Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 709 Registered: Apr-05 | When I saw the specs, I thought it was a typo; After a few pi$$ing matches with a couple of different attitudes, I finally looked up their profiles. Come to find out, that these guys are like 18-20 years old. I remember when I was 18, and I wanted to build the most extreme system arround (Dynaudio 21W54 Quad system). Ya a quad (four 8"), but that was 1990, and I learend a lot since then. IMHO I think that Ology Audio made a huge mistake. Anywhere they go, they will be asked who did you do business with? When they hear from Adire, no one will want to do business with them (Ology Audio) ever again. It is sad, but true. |
|
Bronze Member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 45 Registered: Oct-05 | We pulled out of Adire mainly because they took longer than they said... I'd rather not get into more detail than that here... More was said than I would have liked anyways by one of our dealers. I'm not sure what you are referring to with Dan explaining something to us... Any chance you can fill me in on that one? As for the mms it is very doable. PHL has 6.5" midrange drivers that have less moving mass than our prototype was to. Seas has some paper midranges in the same ballpark... Fostex has many with lower mms. The mms is shaved mostly from the former (new tech) and the voice coil anyways (underhung)... Not the cone... Even if for some strange reason we ran into energy storage problems (error in picking a cone profile or if it was indeed made too thin... or the paper material just was a failure...) it would be a simple move to change the cone material/thickness/profile... Instead of us having to wait for an external entity to make us another prototype. I'll bring Matt in here to see what he has to say about those accusations against him, as this is the first time I have heard that. |
|
New member Username: FeandilPost Number: 10 Registered: Nov-05 | Look guys... I didn't even make those specs... Dan designed them. He said they would work and I went ahead with the order. They aren't contradicting at all. No other buildhouses care that we left Adire. We are currently doing business with around 6 other businesses for parts. I in fact never deceived anyone on ebay at all... and certainly not at caraudioforum. I sold a pair of line arrays and stated they were designed to best the Mcintosh XRT29. The buyer was extremely happy with them. This is the last time I'm even going to discuss this really. Apparently Mcintosh found it troubling and ended what they felt was a trademark violation auction. It wasn't a concern to me really. Dan called my midrange crap, I don't like his extremis. Efficency will forever be THE factor that seperates the men from the boys in speakers. The very last thing I will say is something that should be hugely apparent to you the lighter the Mms the better the top end... the lower the inductance the better the top end (generally). Simply because other companies have difficulties getting that top end with high efficency doesn't mean that they know what the hell they're doing. the PHL 1120 for instance is damn near dead flat till 7khz... and is 95db/w, with only minor break up nodes around 5-6khz. Poly cones like the extremis tend to have major issues around the 1khz-2khz spectrum with resonances... paper is cheap and pushes these (and dampens them) much higher. Dylan and I will have our 6.5" out in a week or so... and you all will see what's possible and what's not possible. Beyond that calling anyone's specs impossible (especially easy to acheive specs like 8.9g mms) is just valueless. I'm wasn't interested in being forced into the position I had to defend the fact we left Adire publicly but it was bound to happen and I was willing to do it. Nothing I said was a lie, those specs aren't impossible, and to be honest dylan and I are much happier with this other speaker's specs we will have designed and built in around 3 weeks time. Matthew |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5255 Registered: May-04 | "PHL has 6.5" midrange drivers that have less moving mass than our prototype was to. Seas has some paper midranges in the same ballpark... Fostex has many with lower mms. The mms is shaved mostly from the former (new tech) and the voice coil anyways (underhung)... Not the cone..." In those examples, yes. But none of them are designed to have 13mm of one way excursion, either. They are 6.5" midrange drivers, not midbasses nor do they carry the characteristics of midbasses. You're aiming for over 6x the linear excursion of a PHL 1120. With the given design goals, you have to take some mass off the cone regardless of the motor design you use. "Dan called my midrange crap, I don't like his extremis. Efficency will forever be THE factor that seperates the men from the boys in speakers." Yes, let's all pull out our efficiency wangers and evaluate those. I could care less about efficiency if it's sacrificed for SQ, or low end, or energy storage, or distortion, especially since the human ear is most linear around 85db. Any half decent speaker can do 85db with a watt. Aside from that, the Extremis is a MidWOOFER, your driver is a MidRANGE. Complete difference. "the PHL 1120 for instance is damn near dead flat till 7khz... and is 95db/w, with only minor break up nodes around 5-6khz." Dead flat? Maybe if you have a lazy eye Gets pretty nasty in upper midrange. Energy storage is pretty decent, not the best. "the lighter the Mms the better the top end... the lower the inductance the better the top end (generally). Simply because other companies have difficulties getting that top end with high efficency doesn't mean that they know what the hell they're doing." It could also be the fact that they're trying to meet specific design goals. You say the Extremis isn't all that good (in midrange performance, I agree). But your mid doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of playing flat to 30hz in a room. From a SQ standpoint, making a 6.5" go up to 7khz is pretty pointless as it will be inferior to an equivalently designed 4" or 3" midrange driver. Sure, it'll be louder. It's a lot easier to make an efficient driver than a good sounding one. All loudspeakers are based on very simple principles, and all engineers fight physics to try to meet their optimal results. Make an efficient 6.5" and you're neglecting polar response and increasing intermodulation, as well as sacrificing a lot of low end performance(<-BIG one in a car). You also run into node and lobe distortion past about a decade of response in the intended frequency range. None of these problems have been resolved, only lessened. "I in fact never deceived anyone on ebay at all... and certainly not at caraudioforum. I sold a pair of line arrays and stated they were designed to best the Mcintosh XRT29. The buyer was extremely happy with them. This is the last time I'm even going to discuss this really. Apparently Mcintosh found it troubling and ended what they felt was a trademark violation auction. It wasn't a concern to me really. " I saw the auction. I'll say no more. Regardless of my opinion, you've got nearly two entire forums out there that are more than willing to completely trash your business practices. That's what should be a concern to you, especially since you intend to build a company off of word of mouth. |
|
Bronze Member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 46 Registered: Oct-05 | Well before we know it Mark K will be getting the prototype and we will all see what it looks like... I'd rather avoid a 36 page thread. I'd never use a 6.5" up to 7khz myself... I'd be much more likely to lowpass between 1.5khz and 3.5khz depending on the application... or possibly use it as a dedicated woofer... |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics