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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 | I really hope you guys can get me going in the right direction. Heres the deal. I took my 99 Grand Cherokee up to a nationwide gig and picked out a small system and had them install it. I went w/ a Pioneer DEH-P4700MP head,, 2 Infinity 6.5s (6012i) in the rear doors ,, 2 6x9 infinity 9612i in the front door. They pulled it back and installed all this new stuff only to discover my dash tweeters were blown. So they took them out and told me i had to go to jeep to get replacements. I found that odd. So they did a short go over w/ me and immediately i was not the bit least impressed. They claimed it would sound better w/ the tweeters,, whicj im sure it will but i know theres more to it. It sounded better w/ the Stock infinity 2 blown tweeters and 1 rear speaker not even hooked up! Im kinda passive so i figured just get it home and tweek it and get the tweeters in ASAP. So came home and tweeked w/ it,, read the manual found the crappy internal EQ that i think sucks and is hard to tweek unless you know what all that 60-KZH-120KHZ-200KHZ stuff means,, but i got it to sound crisper. Still something wrong though,,i knew it wasnt right. So today i took it to a stereo lab type place. Guy was real cool and came out in jumped in my jeep,, started messin w/ it. He agreed right away it wasnt right. He faded the rear speakers off and revealed the front door speakers are only kicking out a dull thumping noise. He called it bass ,,, it sounded like a real bad signal to me. So he comes to the conclusion theyre probally routed through the factory amp (i hope)and thats how the old Infinity Gold system that was in it was supposed to function. He suggested bypassing the amp and wiring them right to the head. Now after i got to thinking about that,, it dawned on me theres no way jeep rolled vehicles out w/ the front speakers sounding like that,, matter of fact the trash that was in it sounded fine. These new ones sound like they have a towell over them or something. He also has some tweeters he will install at the same time. I have this scheduled for tuesday. Any comments or suggestions? Also,, before i found this guy,, i stopped at another national store to see if they had tweeters. Got to talking to theyre installers and they said i need a crossover. I have no idea what i crossover is. So now im starting to feel like a real butt for bugging everybody,, and i just want someone to pinpoint the problem so i can move on. Im really clueless when it comes to systems so i need a dependable place to go. This is phase 1 of my system ,, phase 2 is due in spring of 06. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated on those front door speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: SpyderEglin AFB, Florida USA Post Number: 140 Registered: Jun-05 | I would Avoid the national Stores......the little stereo shops usually have the best no how and are least out to screw you!! as they need you to recommend them again to someone else!! and you don't need a crossover......you need someone to install it that knows what they are doing!! |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-05 | Thanks Simon. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I guess i knew i might be asking for trouble w/ a national company so i got what i have coming to me. I hope i can get more replies concerning the bypass of the amp. I really dont like that idea. Its not what i really had in mind. Being i am not really trying to pull major bass like heard in rap ( i listen soley to heavy metal) i still like the bass thats coming out of my rears right now. Am i going to scrifice that bass in my front speakers by bypassing the amp? Enough to worry about it? |
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Silver Member Username: SpyderEglin AFB, Florida USA Post Number: 142 Registered: Jun-05 | in all reality bypassing the amp would be a good thing.....that headunit if setup properly will perform better......and later down the road you can get a 2 channel amp to power them and you will be happier.....i used to run my Xr's off my headunit and they sounded really good for headunit power.....but then i pulled my MTX amp out of the closet and gave them more power. a lot of the times the built in amp for factory sound systems are wierd ohm loads and wierd power......so by you changing out the headunit and still using the factory amp the sound quality will not be the same....but those infinity's should sound decent when they bypass the amp if they know what they are doing! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10723 Registered: Dec-03 | the factory jeep premium system uses an infinity amplifier that runs at 2 ohms. to match this you'd need two ohm components, and Kicker is one of the few companies who even make such a beast. also you'll want 6.5" separates, with the mids in the doors, and tweeters in teh factory dash location, or in the doors next to the mids. if you're no longer using the factory amp, consider getting an amplifier to boost the power to the front and rear speakers. I have an 01 WJ and personally, I left the premium factory system and just added subs to improve low end response. works fine that way. A lot of people seem to have problems with the tweeters blowing in those systems though.. I'm wondering if they just have the treble maxed out on the EQ slider and run at full folume or what, because I have yet to blow one. |
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Bronze Member Username: Tj80Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 67 Registered: Aug-05 | Infinity makes 2 ohm Kappa components as well... the step below the perfects. |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 3 Registered: Oct-05 | Thanks for all this help.Its starting to sound like those 6.5 speakers the installer swapped out may have been the correct speakers? The salesman said those were the only ones they had for my jeep. Theyre listed on my invoice as a "component sys,in" They had differant ranges i do know that. However i do not know if theyre 2 ohm,,, they were 6010CS model #. Anyway i can find out? And find out if these they put in are 2 ohm? |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 4 Registered: Oct-05 | Well,, im at loss. This project got ugly and unenjoyable real fast. I called the national store this morning and explained the situation. gave them a chance to give theyre side of the story and fix the problem. I did this to avoid paying the little stereo shop to fix the problem,,, and because of the new information i got on this thread about component speakers. Cause im starting to think those 6x9s they took away from me will bolt in a be fine. Am i right? Nobody at the national store really gave me a answer.They told me to come up and they would fix it ,, but neither of theyre installers showed up!!!!!!! So it was a huge waste of my time. I have another appt tomorrow at noon,, after my 10 am at the little shop to install my tweeters.i really need to get my facts straight before i wake up in the morning and begin making these appts to get this straightened out. Once i walk out of the small shop w/ tweeters installed only,,im in the hands of the national shop in regards to these front speakers. Im sure im going to get blasted w/ opinions and suggestions from both places. And something tells me they aint done w/ me financially. For instance what if they say i need the $199.00 speakers afterall,,, the little shop said"just bypass amp' ,,,,,,,, whos wrong ,, whos right? There was even a comment at the national store this morning that the installer may have already bypassed the amp on accident and thats why they sound so bad,,,, dont make any sense to me,, i thought the little shop said bypass it? Also i think the 2 ohm speakers that somebody else brought up here is credible,, in fact i seen the same information online today. So its been coraborated,,, so should i tear out all the speakers they just sold me and installed and start over cause they aint right anyhow? Glasswolf,, is that what you were trying to say? |
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Bronze Member Username: Tj80Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 69 Registered: Aug-05 | Those are the reference line... they're 4 ohm. The 60.7CS is the kappa version that's 2 ohm. No idea about sound quality etc... but it's the model above the 6010CS. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9PGkbp4rZdQ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=76400&I=108607CS |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 5 Registered: Oct-05 | Wow! Pricey suckers. I could probally go $200.00 a pair. Heck i already did ! But bypassing the amp for now looks more appealing after seeing that price. |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 6 Registered: Oct-05 | What if i went w/ a straight 6x9 3 way ran straight to the head? Would there be anything wrong w/ that? |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 7 Registered: Oct-05 | Ya disregard that last one. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10736 Registered: Dec-03 | part of the problem is that the reference line speakers aren't any real improvement over what you had to begin with. they are the cheap ones that Infinity sells for stock replacement mostly, or to people who aren't that concerned with good audio. the other problem seems to be the installers you're dealing with are incompetant. Being a professional, I hate to say it but finding a good installer is difficult. Most of the monkeys I run into in various stores, especially the large chains, can't even put in a new radio without messing something up and making the customers return repeatedly in hopes of a resolution. The main issue sounds like either too small of a budget to replace what's considered a fairly expensive factory infinity gold system in that jeep, or sales people who didn't know how to pick the right system for the vehicle. |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 8 Registered: Oct-05 | Well its been a long few days. I got all the speakers ran straight to the head and after some more tweaking it got close,, but not really what i was hoping for. Today had a dual 12" enclosure w/ a 650 watt 2 channel amp installed. Much improvement. However i still think im not going to be happy until i amp the 4 door speakers. This was actually a very stressful experience for me. Im not gonna pin the blame on anyone,, Hell it may be my fault for taking it to serious. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10742 Registered: Dec-03 | putting even a small 40x4 amp on the front/rear speakers will make a big difference as well. it'll make the mids more punchy and bring out a lot of detail in the mid to treble range you're lacking now. that's a good idea when you can get to doing it. |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 9 Registered: Oct-05 | Ok gentlemen i give up. I gotta get these infinity speakers to blend up w/ these subs. Its very close,,,, but they are lacking low and mid range. I really dont want to pour a whole lot in it at this point,,, any suggestions on what to look for to get me by till after xmas ,, or next spring? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10780 Registered: Dec-03 | adding that amp will add the missing midbass and punch to the midrange you're missing.. to a point anyway. those references, as I mentioned aren't what I'd call high performance drivers, so you can only get so much out of their limited excursion and low cost design. don't take it personally. for "cheap" they're good speakers. They just don't compare to a shadow of what higher end speakers like Kappa Perfects can do with the right power.. gotta remember speakers are what, in the end, make the sound you hear, so they are usually one of the most important factors in how a system will sound when it's all together. while every component makes some difference.. most head units won't make a drastic difference aside from features. Most amplifiers produce power with little coloration, so that all comes down to reliability and features or how much power you get more than a difference in how the system will really sound. The speakers though.. along with their positioning, the type of enclosure for the subs, and their actual construction determines what you'll hear. |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 682 Registered: Jun-05 | get those 60.7cs infinity's on ebay...cost under $200 for 2 ohm speakers. |
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New member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 10 Registered: Oct-05 | Glasswolf, Can you show me a couple amps that would get me by for right now? |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 4795 Registered: Nov-04 | Take a look on eBay. They have Xtant 4 channel amps under $150. They are excellent quality. Orion also has 4 channel amp you can look at. PPI is another. Never mess with bad installers. They will drain all your budget and give you back problems in return. |
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Bronze Member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 11 Registered: Oct-05 | Ok,,, whatta you guys think of this amp? Will it get me by? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10807 Registered: Dec-03 | yeah kicker makes very nice amplifiers |
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Bronze Member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 12 Registered: Oct-05 | Good lookin out man,,, im gonna buy it i think. what kits should i get also? 4 ga. ? Im not ignoring you on the speaker information,,, theres just nothing im gonna do about that now. I appreciate you telling me though. As far as a budget,, i went in w/ $1500 on my mind thinking i should get phase 1 done. Wasnt thinking amp or subs,, in fact subs was not even remotely thought of. I was hoping to use my factory am w/ a sweet head unit and top of the line speakers for right now,,, thats kinda what i had in mind. But truth be know,, a good salesperson coulda got $2000 out of me had they gained my confidence and gave me fair pricing. But as you can see now nothing is really playing out the way i intended. So,,,, during phase 2 i will again look at door speakers. Actually,, something tells me ill be scrapping everything but the HU and starting over,, we'll see. |
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Bronze Member Username: SeascapeOhio Post Number: 13 Registered: Oct-05 | Good lookin out man,,, im gonna buy it i think. what kits should i get also? 4 ga. ? Im not ignoring you on the speaker information,,, theres just nothing im gonna do about that now. I appreciate you telling me though. As far as a budget,, i went in w/ $1500 on my mind thinking i should get phase 1 done. Wasnt thinking amp or subs,, in fact subs was not even remotely thought of. I was hoping to use my factory amp w/ a sweet head unit and top of the line speakers for right now,,, thats kinda what i had in mind. But truth be know,, a good salesperson coulda got $2000 out of me had they gained my confidence and gave me fair pricing. But as you can see now nothing is really playing out the way i intended. So,,,, during phase 2 i will again look at door speakers. Actually,, something tells me ill be scrapping everything but the HU and starting over,, we'll see. |