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New member Username: Minime80Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm looking at getting either an Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1d or the 12.1 dvq. The only real difference (aside from the whole variable Q thing) is that the 12.1 d is rated at 350W RMS and 96db sensitivity whereas the 12.1 dvq is rated at 400W RMS and 92db sensitivity. So if you raise the watts and lower sensitivity what happens? Is the relationship between wattage and sensitivity similar to how Volts * Amps = Watts where if you raise the volts and lower the amps you get the same watts, meaning are these two subs practically identical? |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 1034 Registered: Aug-04 | No. When your picking a sub you relly don't have to worry about the sensitivity rating, unless your planning on running 1 watt to it. |
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New member Username: Minime80Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-05 | http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/speakers_faq .html?print=1&page=all#11 These guys seem to think it's pretty important. |
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Silver Member Username: Nnnnick_bNc Usa Post Number: 137 Registered: Jan-05 | The efficiency rating is not nearly as important in a subwoofer system as it is in a fullrange system(which still isnt that important). most subs are in the upper 80's lower 90's. u wont tell that much difference. |
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New member Username: Minime80Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-05 | Okay, so would anyone recommend one over the other? |
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Silver Member Username: SolacedagonyNew Jersey US Post Number: 283 Registered: Oct-04 | How much are you paying for one of those? |
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New member Username: Minime80Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-05 | Looks like it's going to be about $150 for the 12.1d or $200 for the dvq |
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MrFujimo Unregistered guest | I don't know who told these guys sensitivity isn't important? There may not be a direct correlation between sensitivty and sound quality but if it has a higher efficiency(sensitivity) it would only make sense that you could drive it at a lower power level where the signal is cleaner and still have the same volume of sound. Remember every 3db's is effectively doubling your output and conversely halfing your required input. A 90db sub driven by a 200 watt amp would have the same output as a 93db sub driven by a 100 watt amp. There are many good resources that expand on this. |
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nick_sq Unregistered guest | a sub with a 3 db higher sensitivity rating is going to requre HALF the power of a sub with 3 DB lower to acheive the same audio output. yours is 4db higher! I'd say thats important! get the 96db/350 watt. Everytime you double the power u get 3db, so 50 extra watts dont do much with a 4db lower sensitifity. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 7468 Registered: Dec-03 | power handling is strictly a thermal rating, and tells you how much heat the voice coils can handle (in watts) without melting. This has nothing to do with how much power the sub actually needs to reach full excursion, which is usually significantly less. as for sensitivity and efficiency, Speaker sensitivity is a specification provided by all manufacturers of high-quality speakers. The sensitivity rating has no relation to sound quality, as some of the very best speakers have low ratings. Sensitivity ratings simply tell you how much sound a speaker will produce for a given power input. Sensitivity ratings are given in decibels per watt at one meter, or db/Wm. So, with an input of one watt (usually white noise), a speaker with a sensitivity of 90 db/Wm will produce 90 decibels of sound at a distance of one meter. A sensitivity of 90 is considered average, with ratings of 87 and below considered low sensitivity and above 93 considered high sensitivity. To increase the volume by 3 db, you must double the power. So, using the example above, to make 93 db you would need two watts, and to make 96 decibels, four watts. Most of the time your system is cruising along producing only a few watts. You need extra power for loud bass passages, crescendos in classical music, and other highly dynamic passages. Your speakers may need more than 10 times the average power to re-create these dynamic passages accurately, and if you are playing loudly to begin with, you may need an awful lot of power if you have speakers with a low sensitivity rating. So, when you are buying an amplifier, consider your speakers, your vehicle size and how loudly you want to play. If you have sensitive speakers, you probably will not need as much power -- even 20 clean watts would probably be enough. If your speakers are only moderately sensitive, your vehicle is large or exceptionally noisy at highway speeds and you want to play loudly, you will need more power in order to faithfully reproduce dynamic passages. "Sensitivity," which is expressed in dB, should not be confused with "efficiency" that is expressed as a percentage of power out relative to power in. Efficiency data for loudspeakers suffers from many problems such as failure to consider variations in frequency response. Speaker efficiency is the ability of the speaker to do work or use power. The more efficient the speaker; the less power is required for the speaker to produce sound. Voice coil design, type and size of the magnets, speaker cone design and material, speaker size, etc. all play a critical role in determining speaker efficiency. However, speaker size is a good general method for guessing efficiency. Typical speaker efficiency (for physicists) is about 5%. Meaning that for 100% power input, you get about 5% acoustical work back. Keep in mind that when considering subwoofers, or any speaker that will get more than ~100 watts RMS of power, these measurements are affected by other factors that make this specification less than useful when choosing between speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: Minime80Post Number: 30 Registered: Feb-05 | So, just to clarify Glass, I think with that last line what you're saying is that the "real world" difference between a sub with a 92db sensitivity rating and one with a 96db rating (everything else being equal) is pretty much nothing? |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 1193 Registered: Aug-04 | Hmmm, aren't you glad people listen to us Nick, lol. I guess it takes glasswolf to shut them up. |
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Bronze Member Username: Minime80Post Number: 31 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah, he has a tendency to do that. |
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Nick_sq Unregistered guest | heres a thaught, buy them both, and tell us which one plays LOUDER with a given amount of power, then return the one u dont want. |