My New System (Questions/Comments Welcomed)
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 88 Registered: Jul-04 | yes I know its a link but it has all the pics and info. on it. please give me suggestions/concerns/comments |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3287 Registered: May-04 | System will be kicka$$. I'd love to be able to hear those TC custom drivers, I've heard a lot of the subs they've made for companies like Eclipse, etc. and I'm sure those subs surpass them by a good amount. Adire Extremis mids will be great as long as you accomodate the enclosure (which you've planned to do I see), smaller sealed will work best with them. The Morel tweet is excellent, I auditioned it for my hopefully upcoming system. I liked the Dynaudio Esotar a little better, but the Morel is fantastic as well. BTW, Morel Israel is better ;) Where are you going to crossover the drivers at? That will determine where the tweet will need to be, if you do tweets in pillars they generally work best crossed over around 6khz. That Morel tweet is designed to have a very low resonance and can crossover around 2k, but 6k won't be a problem if the mids can do the job up that high. Anything below 6k will give more of a "layered" soundstage in which the vocals and instruments will seem to come from different sources. 6khz is above most vocal passages and won't affect the imaging as much. What kind of vehicle is it going in as well? |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 89 Registered: Jul-04 | The vehicle it is going in will be a 1994 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE. Yes I know it's not a BMW but i'm 19 and don't have that kind of money. I wanted to do the setup with a large vehicle that way the LMT would have the room to fully produce the low frequencies it is capable of producing. The Extremis are supposed to be able to play up to 2.2khz with ease, but i'm sure they wouldn't mind being crossed over higher at all. So now the mids will play from about 50hz-6khz and the tweets will play 6khz-20khz. The main reason I even posted my system is because I was wondering about crossover points. Now I feel even better since you are highly familiar with the two drivers I am going to be using. I find this situation funny because the Extremis play best up to 2.2KHz and the Morel's best performance starts at 2.2KHz and that's where I was going to end the Extremis and start the tweeters but I am not willing to let the soundstage suffer if I could just cross things over a bit differently. I chose not to make a comment about the Morel Israel/USA issue but you see who I chose and what is going in my setup. I wish you could hear these drivers, they truly are phonemonal. I was asking some guys at the local shop and they said TC Sounds was internet trash, but didn't know what to say when I said that they make Eclipse's flagship Ti and Ti Pro. BUT I went to another shop and showed them the woofer and they almost crapped themselves. One guy said he would be willing to crush the Custom A with his TDX (The custom would walk all over a TDX but i didn't say anything, just laughed and gave a friendly smile). I told him i'm not into competition, just in it for fun but he could talk to the 9917 and pair of Orion XTR PRO 2400's if hes looking for a little friendly competition. The TC woofers will never be comped or burped under any circumstance. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3289 Registered: May-04 | Can't blame you, I wouldn't torture the TC custom drivers either. I personally think it will give best results to cross over around 2.2khz and install the tweeters closer to the mid such as in the door or in kick panels. The thing about the Extremis is that is is designed mainly for home audio, and is designed with different axis performance and enclosure requirements than the typical car audio midwoofer. To get 6khz out of that mid would mean a more on-axis install via kick panels, doors generally only offer good performance up to around 2khz simply due to the off-axis nature of them. Of course, angled door would improve results as well. In your situation, I'd put the tweets in kicks and the mids in doors or kicks (or one in either), whatever the room will accomodate and whatever offers best results. Just because the tweets are low won't mean the soundstage will be, acoustic phase is more crucial to stage height than the actual placement of the drivers and those Morel tweets are designed to have fantastic off-axis performance. They won't have as much of a "rainbow effect" as other tweeters will. The good thing is that you have access to an RTA and an active crossover, so you can play around with either and see which gives better results. IMO the mid won't do as well up to 6khz, although it may surprise you. If you want to go a step further, you could consider adding a dedicated supertweeter up high to add a little air up top. |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 91 Registered: Jul-04 | The thing is, I am going to be doing 4 of the Extremis midbass. Would it be horrible if I did 1 mid and 1 tweet in the kicks and 1 mid in the door/elsewhere? I am VERY NEW to planning a system around playing actual music. SPL flows in my veins and what I have in mind when building this system is playing music like nobodys business, to a T and with authority. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3290 Registered: May-04 | It won't be horrible at all, I saw that you planned 4 mids above. You could do either and be well off, it's just something you'll have to experiment with once you start rolling with it. The active crossover will let you experiment more with driver location and gives you flexibility, so as long as you take some time thoroughly planning it and playing with driver location you'll be just fine. Imaging should be your main priority, those 1/3 oct EQs can help compensate if you're curve is a little off. |
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Bronze Member Username: Tdeaton1021Near Tampa, Florida USA Post Number: 59 Registered: Sep-04 | how does that sub have 48 mm xmax? thats far beyond a 13w7 or x.x.x ... and that sub doesnt look like its surround can move that far... but i dont know all too much about it,,,, |
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Bronze Member Username: Sancho886El Cajon, CA US Post Number: 80 Registered: Jun-04 | it might be 48mm both ways. |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 92 Registered: Jul-04 | nope, 48mm each way. it will stomp a mudhole through any woofer available on the market at this point (that i'm aware of anyway). the curve is flatter than XBL^2 as well. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3315 Registered: May-04 | Remember that this is a custom driver, an experimentation. It's like a concept car, it's made to be more than what most people will want/need, so it's overdone (in a good way). Chief, let me know how those Adire mids work with the Morel tweets, I'm planning my next system and may consider doing those and Dynaudio Esotars run active  . |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 94 Registered: Jul-04 | I looked all over the place and never found a set of Esotars anywhere. I even checked MadiSound and didn't find them there either. Most definitely, everyone will know how the morel/adire combo works when all is installed. Each pair of mids will be bandpassed so only 1 pair will play midbass and the other pair will play midrange. oh yeah, you won't hear about the TC LMT (the driver i'm using) much because only 5 exist. Jonathan your setup will probably be done before mine because everything is still sitting in the den and I still have some more things to buy. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3346 Registered: May-04 | http://www.woofersetc.com/product.asp?0=270&1=273&3=3427 There are some Esotars. $700 a pair, they aren't cheap by any means, and that's below retail. You can look on Dynaudios website for technical datas. The Morel Supremo and Dynaudio Esotar are very similar in design, the Esotar has been used for years in Dynaudios home speakers. Both tweeters are large baffle, matched pair soft domes optimized for great on and off axis performance, a smooth phase response and impedance curve, and a damped cavity behind the tweeter. They're REAL tweeters, none of this sissy 3/4"-1" car stuff ;). I think you'll be more than happy with that tweeter. The main reason I liked the Esotar a little better is because of the upper frequency response, the Morel comparatively lacked just a bit of shimmer when it was needed. Tonality of them is similar, both have a very sweet sound to them and add a lot of ambience. You'll be amazed after hearing other car tweets for so long. If you've ever heard Dynaudios high end home sets, it had an Esotar tweeter. A lot of other companies use the Esotar in home audio speakers as well. "Jonathan your setup will probably be done before mine because everything is still sitting in the den and I still have some more things to buy." I doubt it, I'm still building a den to put stuff in . I'm about to buy the car, but it will be a while until I begin an audio project b/c I'm dedicating time/funding to finishing my house. |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 95 Registered: Jul-04 | I would've saved up and got the Esotar's had I found them  At first I was going to do the new Kicker component set, then the Focal component set, then the CDT component set. In the end I said the hell with components because they'll never sound as good as a proper actively processed system. building a house must be pretty fun, considering you get to do whatever you want and make it however you want. Granted you follow the codes and compliance rules anyway. This setup of mine may come together sooner than I thought after I thought about how much I make a month (which isn't much) and how much I could start selling these movie posters for. Would anyone like to purchase a movie poster? These are newer movies, sadly. |
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Silver Member Username: Rob315Cuse, NY U.S. Post Number: 191 Registered: Jan-05 | where can you get one of those subs?..and how much?..im buying one if you can tell me |
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Silver Member Username: HdubbFarmington, Nm Usa Post Number: 902 Registered: Nov-04 | good luck with that. i think that the only woofer that would be in the same class as that one hasnt came out yet. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3349 Registered: May-04 | The Morel tweet isn't something to be sad about, trust me on that one. It's not inferior to the Dynaudio tweet, I just like the Dynaudio a little better. I agree with you, active processing and custom drivers can usually give best results as long as you choose drivers suited for it. The only downfall is that if you get a component set from a good company, you're assured that they have compensated for any swinging impedance curves and they have already matched drivers according to phase, active crossovers won't let you compensate for an impedance curve nor do they offer as many different type of crossovers as passives. Regardless of slope, you still have different crossover alignments. If the drivers have a very smooth impedance curve and low resonance, then active is the way to go for sure. |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 96 Registered: Jul-04 | you can't get one. TC Sounds no longer does custom woofer ordering and they only did a run of 5 of these bad boys. There will never be any made like them again, well at least not on the scale of this one. if you can find 1 of these for sale it would be very lucky because i know exactly where all but 1 are and none of us would let anyone even pry it from our dead hands. hahah Other TC woofers will use the LMT technology. The motor used for this woofer is a little like a TC9 but far superior to it. |
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Silver Member Username: HdubbFarmington, Nm Usa Post Number: 918 Registered: Nov-04 | is that the 4hp motor that they use on that sub? or is it a prototype motor too? |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 98 Registered: Jul-04 | proto motor. it is NOT a 4HP motor like the new RE driver uses. |
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Silver Member Username: HdubbFarmington, Nm Usa Post Number: 927 Registered: Nov-04 | well i know tc sound uses one but on which sub? |
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Bronze Member Username: LoudnobnoxiousPost Number: 99 Registered: Jul-04 | they use the 4HP on their 4HP sub. They call the subs by their motors name. now the 4HP can be found on the TRF and Eclipse Ti, and new RE woofer. |
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