What speakers to go with.
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Bronze Member Username: Urga21West jordan , Utah Usa Post Number: 14 Registered: Feb-05 | I have about 150 dollars to spend an a pair of speakers. I need to know what the best pair for that money is and where i can get them. Thanks. |
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Anonymous | check for infinity speakers on ebay. you can change all 4 speakers in the car if you go for the reference series. this will give you the best bang for your buck. |
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New member Username: Bobo123Post Number: 10 Registered: Jan-05 | It all depends on your taste, but I like Infinity as a whole. If you have the cash to spend on an amp, I would recommend infinity kappa components ($150 shipped on ebay). A little cheaper, you can get the infinity refference components ($120 shipped on ebay). It is worth spending the extra 30 bucks for the kappas. If you do not have the cash for an amp I would suggest you spend a little time saving a few bucks and get one. You can have the best speakers money can buy, but if they are not powered correctly they will go no where beyond average. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 46 Registered: Aug-04 | Another option are 6.5" components CDT CL-61A, you can get them for $150 at http://thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-61A-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101083.htm Listen seriously to what Brian says about getting an amp though, he is absolutely right. If you underdrive any good speaker, like just from your head unit, it's going to sound like crap and you will be disappointed. Save up your $. |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-05 | I am in the same position, and bought a set of Infinity Kappa 6.5 components off ebay to go with my Alpine 9833, which I haven't installed. I'm a car stereo newbie, and don't know anything but have doing alot of research. That being said, could you recommend an amp to me, from $75-$150 or so? All I have to install is the 9833, the Infinities, and a set of pioneer 4x10s in the back roof of my Tahoe (it's all that will fit). Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 47 Registered: Aug-04 | The Infinity Kappas are serious SQ speakers and will require a decent amount of power to make them happy, say between 100 and 150 watts continuous. You're going to have to do some serious shopping to get an amp worthy of them in that price range. One that comes to mind is the PPI PCX-2125, you might check on e-bay for that one, I found it for $175 at http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/2663 . It is a refurb, however, but if you're comfortable buying on e-bay then maybe you're OK with buying used equipment. That same site has refurbed Orion amps on sale, and I know that some Orion models are good, but I'm not the one to ask for a particular recommendation on that make. What are you planning on driving your rear speakers with? You really don't need rear speakers, but if you want to keep them, you'll probably be alright just powering them with the Alpine HU. The Kappas are better speakers and they'll be up front with you, so they deserve more attention. |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Neil for the awesome info. I think I will just get a two channel for the components and leave the rears with the HU. I've been looking into some 2 channel mosfets, too. I guess since my Kappas are 4 ohms i have to get a 4 ohm amp(?) Billie26 |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-05 | Okay, I'm looking at the Infinity 7520a amp. Do you think it'll do the job? http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOSihbOG0S1/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=108R7520A |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 48 Registered: Aug-04 | Bob, frankly, no. The specs on this amp are dismal. THD is 1%, usually we look for less than .1% (that's one-tenth of one percent). Also, signal-to-noise is 83 dB, it should 100 dB or higher. Plus, the Crutchfield price is too high, I checked on another site and found this amp for $99. With your Kappa speakers and Alpine head unit, this would definitely be the weak link in your chain. In your price range, you should be looking for amps in the "good" category, not "great." Good would be like US Acoustics, Alpine (their head units are very good, their amps are good but not at the top of the heap), PPI (the PCX series, do NOT buy the newer DCX, they suck), MTX, JBL. Great would be Arc Audio, Zapco, US Amps, Tru -- if you come across any of these in your price range, jump on it). If you find an Orion that looks good, post another message in this group, asking for an opinion on the model(s) you're looking at. Jonathan and especially GlassWolf in here are familiar with Orion and can give you a good evaluation. How soon are you looking to buy this? I can continue to look online this weekend, and if I find something that fits your needs, I will post another reply in here. Virtually all car amps are rated at 4 ohms. You're looking for an amp that puts out 100 to 150 rms watts per channel into 4 ohms. All good amps will also be stable at 2 ohms, but you don't have to worry about that with just one pair of 4 ohm speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Jwbulger79Florida Post Number: 126 Registered: Nov-04 | Here's a good 4 channel amp, new for $150 shipped. You can bridge the channels to get 150 watts RMS x 2. http://www.edesignaudio.com/nine4_overview.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 49 Registered: Aug-04 | ED is a good brand, but considering that this is their webpage, it's pretty confusing. At the top of that page, they rate the amp at 150w x 2 @ 4ohms, if you click on the specifications tab, it says 150w x 2 @ 2 ohms, and at another place on the website it rates that same amp at 100w x 2 into 4 ohms. Worth a call to the company to clarify that before making a decision! Also, it appears that that price expired on January 30, and the new price tag is $185. The other specs aren't bad, s-to-n could be a bit better, but then again when you bridge an amp, distortion ratings can suffer. I wouldn't feel too bad about bridging a 2-channel to mono to drive a subwoofer, but am a little leery about bridging an amp to drive good -- and unforgiving -- full-range speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Jwbulger79Florida Post Number: 127 Registered: Nov-04 | good point neil. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 50 Registered: Aug-04 | Chance, original poster -- Did you figure out what you're going to do? |
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Bronze Member Username: Urga21West jordan , Utah Usa Post Number: 17 Registered: Feb-05 | I have decided to go with a one pair of boston acoustics 300 dollar pair of speakers. I am going to place them in the front of my car and run them through the clarion apa450 amp. Is this a good idea. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 52 Registered: Aug-04 | I am a big fan of Boston Acoustics, that is all I used to have in my car: 6.5" in the doors, 5.25" in the rear and an excellent pair of tweeters in the kick panels. Some people say the treble is too bright, but I think that the highs are very clear, and the imaging is super. What model of Bostons? I ask because the Clarion is 4 channels at 50 watts per. |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Neil. I will be purchasing an amp as soon as I run across one that suits my need. Any links will be much appreciated. I'm really pumped to get the everything in. I've never owned a system before. Billie26 |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3196 Registered: May-04 | "Bob, frankly, no. The specs on this amp are dismal. THD is 1%, usually we look for less than .1% (that's one-tenth of one percent). Also, signal-to-noise is 83 dB, it should 100 dB or higher." It's CEA-2006 compliant. It isn't rating the distortion, it rates the power and S/N that the amp has at 1% distortion, meaning the distortion spec is a constant. The 1% distortion rating is standard for ALL amplifiers tested, be it US Amps, Zapco, or even something crappy like you'd get at Wal-Mart. The amp is capable of delivering distortion lower than 1%, and S/N higher than 83db, it's just that the amp was tested at 1% THD. http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/cd_glossary.html#cea-2006_c ompliant Read the "CEA-2006 Compliant" category for verification. Anyway, specifications should be taken with a grain of salt. Every manufacturer rates amplifiers differently, the specifications and the way they got those specs vary greatly. Look at the ratings of the older JBL BP series amps, and compare them to the new JBL GTO and Power series amps. You'd think the amps lost quality, but in reality the only difference was that the specification method changed since they rolled over to the CEA-2006 system. Manufacturers will continue to have a field day with specifications until a required standard is developed and enforced, CEA-2006 is voluntary. As far as the sound quality, you could put an amplifier with a 1% distortion level beside an amp that had .0001%, and below clipping level, you'd never hear the difference, I promise. If you want to find that out the expensive way, you can take the Richard Clark challenge. When an amp is at or near clipping level, you'll hear the difference since different amps perform differently when they clip, it relates to the power supply used and the equipment used, similar to the difference in tubes and transistors, tubes overload easier while transistors clip hard, tubes give off even-ordered harmonics and transistors give off odd-ordered harmonics. The big difference between the great amps and the soso and good amps is build quality. Zapcos, PPI Art series, 1st gen Orion, etc last 10+ years as long as they're treated well. The power supplies are capable of delivering much, much more than the current needed to produce rated power, instead of putting out just enough to get the job done. That's the difference. The optimal amp wouldn't "sound" like anything other than what comes through it. |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 8 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for the info, Jonathan. All this stuff is so greek to me. Dumb question: With my HU and Components, do I really need an amp? Would I lose that much quality? I don't listen to loud music or anything, mostly stuff like Radiohead. Would I be commiting the ultimate car stereo faux pas? |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 53 Registered: Aug-04 | I know the wicked games manufacturers play with numbers, and I have taken so many grains of salt that my blood pressure is going through the roof, or maybe that's just the frustration of trying to sift through the barrage of information. It's like one guy is selling a 4-inch orange, another guy is selling an orange that he says is 12.5 inches, and then you find the first guy is talking about the diameter and the other guy is measuring the circumference -- they're both selling the same orange. The CEA-2006 is all well and good, but until it's close to universal, it's of limited usefulness. It does sound a bit oversimplified to me to say that "you could put an amplifier with a 1% distortion level beside an amp that had .0001%, and below clipping level, you'd never hear the difference". Someone reading that might infer that an amp is an amp is an amp, when there are many other factors involved in comparative quality, such as the build quality, as you mention, and other specifications and performance measurements (some of which manufacturers are reluctant to give out). Otherwise, somebody could be looking at a 100-watt Sony Xplode and a 100-watt TRU amp and say, what the heck, the specs are different, but as long as I don't clip 'em, they'll sound the same, so I'll go for the cheap. I know you were referring to one particular measurement, but people shouldn't jump to conclusions. Many thanks for the link to the CEA-2006. Very interesting, if it takes hold. So going back to Bob K's specific question, as much as I have heard good things about Infinity Kappa/Perfect speakers, I have never heard anybody hyperventilate when talking about Infinity amps. What you think, Jonathan? And will the Kappas be content with 97 wpc? Bob says he doesn't play his music particularly loud, but........ once you're out on the highway, with your first really good system, and a great song comes on, your fingers get kinda itchy to crank it up a bit. |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 9 Registered: Feb-05 | Considering Jonathan's comments, is the Infinity amp I was looking at that bad? Would it deter from my speakers? |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 54 Registered: Aug-04 | That's just what I was asking him, we'll see what he says. He is quite familiar with Infinity Kappas, and what it takes to operate them optimally. Like I said in my last post, I have yet to see anybody heap praise on Infinity amps, so that makes me a bit wary. If he gives a thumbs up, I'd say go ahead. Speaking of thumbs, as a rule of thumb, it's not a bad idea to spend roughly the same amount on the amp as you do on your speakers (and that's after I said above that it's not a good idea to oversimplify, oh well). Of course, you're always looking for sales, closeouts, etc. For example, my CDT ES-630's cost me $427, and my PPI amp was $379. The 630's might eventually get a roving eye and start checking out beefier US Amps or Tru, but for now they are quite happily married. Oh, in the meantime, I will check for the site that's selling that Infinity amp for $99, there's no reason you should pay $149 at Crutchfield. |
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New member Username: Billie26Post Number: 10 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey, what about the Fosgate P3002 or P4002? Are these good? And what about the Orion 3002, Kenwood 7202, and Alpine T220? These are a few that I've seen in my price range. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3200 Registered: May-04 | They're not as well built as many other amps out there. The older JBL BP series amps were better for a budget amp, MTX makes great amps as well. Neil, I definately wasn't saying that a cheap amp was just as good, anyone who read that needs to take it as it is. I absolutely agree that high end amps such as TRU, Zapco, US Amps, etc. are far better than a Sony. The power supply of an amplifier is the most crucial portion of it, and the components used are what seperates a so-so amp from a great one. Another important consideration is the engineering, such as placement of heat sinks and components to prevent unwanted noise, and also provide low internal impedance. Amplifier quality is what is the most important, the main difference in how it "sounds" is the level of power it puts out and how well it handles clipping. That was my main point. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 55 Registered: Aug-04 | Jonathan, I know that was what you meant, but it doesn't take new members in here long to discover that you know what you're talking about, and I didn't want them to do a quick read of your first post and make a wrong decision. Your last post puts things in the proper perspective. Is it just me, or is it discouraging that in talking about the really good amps, it's OLDER PPI, OLDER Orion, OLDER Rockford Fosgate... What kind of a trend is this for car electronics? OK, Bob K, regarding your amp candidates, RF is not what it used to be, I'd say steer clear. The rest are kind of all over the board as far as cost and wattage per channel. The Orion 3002 has 75w x 2 and goes for about $180, the Kenwood 7202 is 150w x 2 and runs around $170, and the Alpine T220 is 50w x 2 and sells for around $95. First off, 50 watts per channel is not enough. And 75 is only a little bit better. You should be between 100 and 150 per channel. Of the three brands I would probably lean towards Alpine, but I would go maybe with the T420 (110w x 2), you can get it for $189 at http://www.allcarstereo.com/product.php?id_product=510&num=20 . As I said before, I'm not really one to speak to the quality of newer Orions anyway. You mention your price range -- what exactly is your price range? As far as bang for the buck, give a thought to the US Acoustics USX2150, 150w x 2, on sale for $120 at http://www.tsasystems.net/shop%20page.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: Billie26Post Number: 11 Registered: Feb-05 | Awesome. That might be the one I go with. My price range is whatever it takes under $200, but would like to stay under $150. Is tsasystems.net a reputable site? Thanks for all your help. |
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Bronze Member Username: Billie26Post Number: 12 Registered: Feb-05 | Ok Neil, I bought the US Acoustics USx2100 100x2 (not the 2150) from cardomain.com. Do you happen to know what type of Streetwires kit I need for this amp? There's like 20 to choose from. Thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3220 Registered: May-04 | Streetwires tend to be pretty expensive for what you get, I'd personally go to www.knukonceptz.com and pick up the 4 guage wiring kit (you'll want 4 guage because it's flexible enough for future upgrades). 4 guage kit is only 30 bucks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Billie26Post Number: 13 Registered: Feb-05 | Cool thanks, I'll pick up this set. The 4 guage kit is actually $19- http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOL-BAK4 |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3223 Registered: May-04 | Didn't look, they used to be around $30, I may have been thinking about the 4 channel 4 guage kit, though. Oh well, less money is better  |
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Bronze Member Username: Billie26Post Number: 14 Registered: Feb-05 | Last question, and this one may be pretty dumb: If I take my vehicle to an installer to get everything installed, should I buy the amp kit and give it to him, or let their business use their own wire kit? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3228 Registered: May-04 | It would probably be cheaper to buy the wire kit from Knukonceptz. Shops tend to charge wire by the foot, and it can get pretty expensive once it all adds up. Plus they'll charge you for fuse holders, fuses, grommets, etc, stuff you can find cheaper elsewhere. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 56 Registered: Aug-04 | Wow, I've been out all afternoon, a lot has happened! I think you'll be quite happy with your US Acoustics amp, they (under)rate their output wattage at 12.9 volts, so you should have enough power to make your speakers sing quite happily. Jonathan is on target with knuconceptz, great product, great price. Going with 4-gauge makes sense, you don't absolutely need that with your set-up now, but when you decide to do an upgrade, then you won't have to replace your power wiring. Well, as far as supplying your own wiring kit, I would say yes: 1) you know that you'll get the quality you want/need, and 2) you don't know what they might charge for whatever they end up using. |
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Bronze Member Username: Billie26Post Number: 15 Registered: Feb-05 | Awesome. Thanks again guys for all your help. I'm super-pumped about getting my system in my vehicle, and knowing that I'm getting quality, recommended products instead of guessing, which is what I was doing before this board. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 57 Registered: Aug-04 | Great. Let us know how things work out. |
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