HYBRID CARS - Safe to add amps?
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DavidLeeRoth Unregistered guest | Does anyone have experience with adding equipment to a Hybrid vehicle like a Civic-Hybrid or Accord-Hybrid? It would SEEM to be the same/safe as any other car, but calculating power draw becomes a bigger concern and am a bit unsure if you can get/use bigger alternators in them. If someone has *experience* installing in hybrid Hondas, please share any differences/warnings/nuances. I'd like to be both fuel-saving AND rocking down the road on long trips, but I don't wanna hurt/tax/fry the special setup, if there is any. Thx in advance. |
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Silver Member Username: SolacedagonyNew Jersey US Post Number: 158 Registered: Oct-04 | I would go talk to Honda about it if I were you. Not worth causing 10k of damage to "experiment". They'd know more than anyone since they built the car. |
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DavidLeeRoth Unregistered guest | Fair enough, but the whole purpose behind this post wasn't to experiment, it was to ask if anyone here has experience installing them in hybrid cars. Honda will always tell you not to add anything to any of their cars that they didn't make. |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 279 Registered: Jun-04 | Your right david they would probably tell you no. So I decided to do some reaserch and see what I could find out for you. (I am curious myself) http://automobiles.honda.com/models/engineering_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hyb rid I reaserched the accord too, and do not feel that it would be too much of a problem. The battery and generator for the electric motor seem to be self contained, and share no interconnection with the altanator and battery. If my assumption is correct then your normal electronics will only be powered by the car battery when you are at a complete stop. All other times, (decelleration, cruising, and take off) the engine is running (on 3 cylinders) therefore the altinator would be suppling power to your electronics. As for running your battery down at a stop light and the car not starting I don't feel this would be to big of a problem either. In most cases they use the electric motor for starting. The regular battery, and starter are a backup incase the hybrid motor and battery die. If I was you I would upgrade your battery, wires and altinator to be safe. There are plenty of poast covering those topics. Other than that I don't see it as a problem. Keep in mind this is all my opinion, and if you find out more let me know. I am especially curious if my theory is corect about the battery and altinator powering the electronics just like a normal car. |
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Silver Member Username: SolacedagonyNew Jersey US Post Number: 161 Registered: Oct-04 | I do agree with you David. Do some searching around, like Jeremy said, and see other people's opinions and observations on the subject. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6714 Registered: Dec-03 | "I reaserched the accord too, and do not feel that it would be too much of a problem. The battery and generator for the electric motor seem to be self contained, and share no interconnection with the altanator and battery" oh but they do. the hybrid motor still charges the starter battery and supplies electricity to the rest of the car.. any strain placed on the electrical system is strain placed on the motor, which affects gas milage etc to some extent. However, most stereo systems, especially more conservative ones kept to under 1000 watts or so, only draw a horsepower or two worth of energy. Everything else you stated is pretty accurate. the gas/electric portions do work together however, and both are in use full time to provide enough power to drive the vehicle. They've also gone so far as to use a system that recharges the batteries of the electric part of the motor during braking. anyway as you mentioned, I'dlook at a larger alternator for the car if you;re going to add amps that draw a lot of current, just to avoid overworking the stock electrical system.. because that's what'll cause you all sorts of problems. When voltage rails on cars that are mostly computer controlled drop below about 11 volts, the computers start to do all sorts of quirky things they shouldn't. |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 280 Registered: Jun-04 | Hay glass were dd you find the interconnection between the 12 volt system, and the 115 volt electric motor system. I could not find anything that stated the two systems were tied together. Everything I found stated they were seprate so that if the hybrid system went out the car was still usable. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6716 Registered: Dec-03 | connected in that the motor, electric and gas, supply power to the car. if the electrical system (12VDC) is overworked and voltage rails sag, it will bear an effect on the entire system/engine. the problem with that, if it should happen, is that the electrical portion of the motor is most likely pretty sensitive to stuff like that. more so than the old gas engine we all know and.. love? lol |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 282 Registered: Jun-04 | Come on glass you know we will all be driving hybrids in a year or two. I do see your point, and will take note. However I don't feel that a few more horse power to drive an the altinator will make that big of a diffrence. The V6 is rated at 245 hp at the fly wheel. The hybrid is only rated at 255hp. That means the electric motor is only producing 10 hp at peak. That means the 3 cylinders will be producing the majority of the horse power. Honda also states that the electric motor only assist the V6 in times of acceleration, and under a load (going up hill), and that it only goes into charging mode during breaking, or times when the 115 volt bateries start to get low. Since those periods should be minimal, the drag on the motor (even during reduced operation) should be minimal. I do agree you will loose a little bit on gas miliage, between the extra weight, and the extra horse power needed to turn the altinator. Yet the loss will be minimal, and probably not a reason to abondon a moderate stereo. Yes I know (its not my charger) however this question will start to apear on here more and more once hybrids get cheaper. Especially with the price of gas going up. Heck I remember when gas was 87 cents a gallon, and that wasn't to long ago. Imagine what it will be in five more years. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6725 Registered: Dec-03 | "Come on glass you know we will all be driving hybrids in a year or two." hahahahhaa yeah sure we will. maybe in 10-15 years. not 1 or 2. look at how many cars on the road today are over 10 years old as we speak. people don't usually replace cars unless they have to unless they have money to throw around. "However I don't feel that a few more horse power to drive an the altinator will make that big of a diffrence." if the alternator can handle the load placed on it, it's all fine. my point is adding big amps to a stock system can cause problems if he strains the charging system. "The V6 is rated at 245 hp at the fly wheel. The hybrid is only rated at 255hp. That means the electric motor is only producing 10 hp at peak." inaccurate assumption. that's like assuming two of the same car with and without a supercharger or turbo (but same displacement motor) are the same HP minus the FI. the truth is, on the SC/turbo engine, compression is reduced to about 8:1 whereas the n/a engine with the same "specs" has a compression ratio of closer to 9 or 10 to one. you also have different cams, manifolds, etc.. but the block is the same so its considered the same engine. my point here is the gas portion of the hybrid engine isn't the same engine as the n/a gas motor used in the conventional honda. the electric portion isn't just bolted onto a stock gas engine, so the amount of power each portion of the hybrid motor produces is really, honestly indeterminate without seeing honda's actual lab specs. " Honda also states that the electric motor only assist the V6 in times of acceleration, and under a load (going up hill), and that it only goes into charging mode during breaking, or times when the 115 volt bateries start to get low." see now this is some more useful information. they're using the electric portion of the engine in a similar manner to forced induction. I haven't read much on honda. I raed more on ford and toyota's hybrid designs myself. "Since those periods should be minimal, the drag on the motor (even during reduced operation) should be minimal. I do agree you will loose a little bit on gas miliage, between the extra weight, and the extra horse power needed to turn the altinator. Yet the loss will be minimal, and probably not a reason to abondon a moderate stereo." never suggested he abandon the idea.. just be sure he doesn't overtax the car's systems doing it. be cautious was really more my message. as for being minimal, that will depend on if he does his driving mostly on highways or in cities as city traffic is a lot of gas and brake time, though granted if they balance out, the braking helps compensate for the accelerating so it should work out too. as for gas prices, we'll see. we've had 'gas crunches' before, but eyah I have a car with 8.2L of displacement. I know all about the cost of gas lol hybrids right now though just cost way too much. especially being honda or toyota for the most part as they cost too much to begin with for what you really get. in reality the reliability and longevity of an import isn't any better than any other car anymore. honda engines last 200,000 miles then almost religiously fail, so you can't really say they last forever compared to USDM vehicles. I have a 94 jeep with almost 220K miles on it and it runs fine, no major failures ever. I have two more cars that are almost 40 eyars old. I guess if buying gas itself is your major pain though, hybrids are a great asset. I just like cars with a little more power to them. particularly low end. not at 10,000 rpm |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 284 Registered: Jun-04 | First, the one or two year thing was a joke. Second the Honda Accord is using the same base v6 in both cars. Unless all the articles I read were wrong. Granted, I am no expert. As for the imports vs americian. I have owned nothing but chevy. Heck my dad had a GMC van with a 6.2 liter diseal that had almost 280,000 miles on it. I am a strong beleiver, and user of americian goods. The only reason I am purchasing a honda, is that right now it fits in my life, and you have to admit the new accords are pretty damn cool. As for the price, they are all about the same. I looked into getting a grand prix, or a montey carlo before I decided on Honda. Every one of them was pushing $30000 with the options I wanted. Yes one of the reasons I decided on Honda was the gas milage. I am moving to Germany after my time in korea, and gas on base is over 2.50 a gallon. So would I get a hybrid? No, as you said they are to expencive, and untill they become more popular so will the repair and service. |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 285 Registered: Jun-04 | bye the way, thanks david, see what you started ;-) |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6736 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm not anti-import. I was jsut voicing a few thoughts on views I hear expressed a lot. I've owned both imports and domestics. they all have their pros and cons. the accords are very nice cars. Where were you in Korea? I grew up on Youngsan, just inside gate 19 by the bunker there across the street from it. spent a fair amount of time at Osan, Peong Tek, and a few other places. I miss it over there. |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 286 Registered: Jun-04 | Right now I am at kunsan setting in the wing head quaters. I just got back from osan. I was living in tent city on the back side of the golf coarse. (about 500 ft from the patriots) I am going back to osan in a few weeks for some more training. Living here is definatly quit an experiance. Especially the shopping out side of osan. (got my girl a coach purse and she will never notice the difrence) I read in your web page that you spent some time in germany too. I am really looking forward to that. I went thru there on my way to saudi for the war. It was really pretty, even in febuary. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6753 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm pondering a vacation for a week or two to Japan, and taking a trip back to Korea again to visit. I'll have to give more thought to that. |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 287 Registered: Jun-04 | I don't have to worry about that. I know I will end up here at least one more time during my time in the airforce. I know I will end up missing the food the most. The cucumber kinchi and spicy pork bulgogi are hard to beat. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 2851 Registered: May-04 | As long as the kinchi isn't cabbage, it's ok  "As for the imports vs americian. I have owned nothing but chevy. Heck my dad had a GMC van with a 6.2 liter diseal that had almost 280,000 miles on it" My friend has a 1989 F-350 with the 7.3L diesel in it, it's over 650,000 miles My C-10 had over 300,000 miles before I rebuilt it. Hybrids are overrated, and NO they're not the only way to get fuel economy. It's not that we can't get good gas mileage, they won't LET us get good gas mileage. Many fantastic carburetor inventions were declined in the past, for whatever reason, then there are "myths" like the Pogue carburetor, etc. I've heard so many stories about engines getting 100 mpg+ it isn't funny. I think it's very possible. |
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Silver Member Username: JmloughreyFarmington, CT Post Number: 650 Registered: Jul-04 | If you really think about it, as people, we've come up with all sorts of things, we can send people into space, we can perform surgery with tools no bigger then your fingernail that are the thickness of a piano string, we have video cameras that can see in complete darkness, we can look through a pair of goggles and see heat generated by different objects, we even found a way to fight and treat cancer. I know i've named alot of simple inventions (and not to simple) but we've done all these things with the advancments in technology, but yet we cant build an engine that gets more then 20mpg (and actually have some kind of useful amount of horsepower) what are these people doing at there companies, sitting there eatting cheetos? Lastly, just expressing something that happened to me today, some lady told me the fries i was eatting from Mcdonalds were not good for my health, i proceeded to tell her to enjoy the pesticides from the salad she had just ordered, all while thinking it wouldn't be good for her health if i stabbed her in the throat Let me slowly kill myself in peace. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6755 Registered: Dec-03 | hahahaha hey I just made bulgogi (beef) the other night for dinner. what great stuff. the reason automotive technology is so stale for one thing is, it's a large source of revenue. making a car that runs forever and does it cheaply isn't good for the car companies for income. same reason gas-alternative fuel sources haven't come very far even though college classes design superior engines every year for projects. ah well. at least my old charger has class.. even if it does suck fuel like a fat kid with a slurpee |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 2855 Registered: May-04 | Yep. I remember Ford designed a combustion chamber that was capable of running well on a 26:1 air/fuel ratio, it was scheduled to be produced in 1985, and never happened. They have found effective ways to stop cancer as well, but NCI wouldn't get money anymore if they came out with a cure, now would they? |
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Silver Member Username: JeremycKunsan AfbSouth Korea Post Number: 288 Registered: Jun-04 | It all boils down to money $$$$. The oil companies dont want us to have a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon because it means they won't make as much money. Just like the battery manufactures don't want the desgnes for a battery that never runs out of power to get out. As soon as these things become popular the demand goes down, and they will start to loose money. |
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