Bandpass box
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| I need some diagrams/ blueprints for making a bandpass box for two Alpine R-types 10s. Does any body have any or now where i can get any? |
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AdamG4453 | Well... Bandpass isnt the easiest to build. But try www.ddaudio.com I don't remember what they have anymore but the last time i checked they only had Ported boxes (but they were excellent designs) so maybe you could work off of those blueprints. Later! |
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Sniper6559 | for all the pain and suffering your going to go thu trying to build this just buy the damn thing there what 120$? |
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| i need some exapmles on how to design an excellant bass speaker box for two 15" kickers. if anyone could send me some diagrams i would really appriciate it. |
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| i have 2 15"kicker comps! i am looking for a good bandpass design( any ideas-plans send to kawi_on@hotmail.com) |
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Anonymous | I need help deciding which bandpass is best for dual 12in subs both faceing each other or facing forward & if there both facing forward should there be a divider THANKS |
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Anonymous | hi |
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| Has anyone heard of or are you familiar with a wave box for subwoofers. I was informed that my sealed sub box was not an efficient design. This was given to me as an explanation for why my lights are blinking - my amplifier is working harder than it would if I had a more efficient box(like a wave box)my amp would not draw as much juice and I would not have to spend money on an upgraded battery and/or cap. This is after I have been shopping with this outfit for items to get better bass response. Now maybe this wave box is a good thing. I am just annoyed that someone is now telling me about this. Help |
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Anonymous | The box will not make your lights blink. The amp is what draws power and is overworking your alternator. The box design might not be as efficient as a bandpass but it is much more forgiving. A new box designed correctly may be more effecient but your amp will still draw more power than your electrical system can provide causing your lights to dim. A cap. is basically a band-aid and a battery will help for a while but is not a permanent fix. A high-output alternator would be the best fix for dimming lights. |
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Masta D | I need HELP. I need to find a bandpass box that is going to fit in a mustang 95 trunk. It could be single for 10" or 12" subs, don't matter. I can't find one. All they got are sealed boxes that wont give me that good sound...I am lost. Can someone help me out??? |
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Derek | Get your hands on The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. Madisound, Solen, Old Colony Sound Labs and others sell the book. Radio Shack used to. Try them. |
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| hi the.i've just got 2 2001 kickers and there not giveing the the sound i'm looking for.i've got a 600 watt amp,cross over and eq.can anyone help? |
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Anonymous | i have a lanzar 12" opti drive sub and i am looking for some plans for a band pass box.any help would be appreciated thanks |
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| i am looking for plans for a bandpass sub box for two 12 inch rockfords subs |
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| not to make any rufuse... or anything, but dont get a badpass box, enclosed it better |
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| please send me blue prints or something to help me build a bandpass box thanx |
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Derek | See http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1882580338. http://www.partsexpress.com also sells the book. |
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| hey, if the sealed is soo good, whats the reason for the bandpass? Ive heard the bandpass and i find it is a highly efficient enclosure, yet it requires a great deal more mathematical knowledge to create one, and further still, is it true that two subs can be placed in a range of possible bandpass designs? What would an audiophile go for? |
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sub_guru | A bandpass box is a tuned enclosure to a certain frequency determined by the peramiters of the sub itself. it is used basically for high spl levels and piss poor accuracy. If built correctly it is somewhat efficient, but building one correctly not only requires a great deal more mathematical knowledge, but dead on balls accurate building. Sealed offers alot more room for error and is a happy medium for frequency response and spl, depending again on your subs parimeters and your enclosure design!!!!! |
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Derek | Sub_guru is right. THERE IS NO WAY TO BUILD A GOOD SUB WITHOUT MATH AND THE SPEAKER PARAMETERS. You may as well put the driver in the nearest box and drive away. There is no better box type (sealed, ported, bandpass). it depends upon the individual woofer. Some woofers can not be placed in a ported box and some woofers cannot be placed in a sealed box. You must also verify your theories with an SPL meter. Just put it in a box and enjoy - hope you have an EQ though because it's going to have an ugly peak somewhere. |
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| If anyone could help, I'd be stoked. I have two 15" Volfenhag speakers... they are in just a regular box right now *( not ported ) hooked up to a 820 watt power acoustik amp. so lately my amp has started to over heat, and it never used to.... can the amp overheat cause the box is crap? also, if ANYONE could tell me whats up with getting better sound out of them with what kind of box and where to get the plans for it i would be SO stoked. cause i heard my friends, he has a REALLY small box, with like 600 watts... for 2 12's and he kicks my butt. i mean his car is now in competition cause the box is so good. well, hit me back if you could@ -anna |
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Anonymous | tuna!!!!!! |
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BALLY | IM LOOKIN 4 CHEAP AMPS OVA 500 WATTS N ANY CAR DECKS AND SUB WOOFERS IN BOX IF U GUYS HAVE ANY EMAIL ME N TELL DA PRICE MUST NOT BE STUPID PRICES CHEERS EMAIL ME ON RUFRIDER_786@HOTMAIL,COM |
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Jaquiz | Is bandpass or sealed better? |
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| Bandpass is a great indoor sub for long loud bass; for the car you want a sealed or ported for tight kick! |
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David Mcgreg | Does anyone have the measurements for making a bandpass enclosure for a pioneer TSW203c-8" subwoofer... |
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Matt Hnatojko | Can anyone send me plans or give me a link for a 10", ported or not, bandpass plans. Please e-mail me if you can help. mjh87@msn.com Thanks |
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| if you want to buy a bandpass box go to www.google.com and search bandpass boxes... it'll bring up lots of stuff for you... you can compare prices... the 2nd link I think... takes you to a place you can specify the box to the type car you have... so you'll know it will fit Later, Blade |
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| i need blueprints to build a box for two 12" pioneer subs to fit in the trunk of a 1990 pontiac grand prix |
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| i need plans for a good bandpass box for 2 10" alpine type e subs and blueprints and material lists would be great e-mail me the plans at rwsk8er87@comcast.net thanks |
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bass boy | I've got 2 (6.5")subs in a bandpass box I designed and it will smoke my 12" subs that are sealed and my 8" subs that are ported. I say bandpass all the way. WEll that is if you wanna have the best system.But anyways I have a question I have a 600w power acoustics USA amp and the other day it just started smokin real bad. It turns on but all i get is fuzz comin from my subs. I know the input is hooked up right because it worked for a good while like it is.. and shouldnt one of the 2 fuses blow before it starts smokin and all??? thanks..  If you want the specs on that bandpass box and where to get the 6.5" subs i use in them then e-mail.. nicholas_earl@yahoo.com |
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| whats the advantages and disadvantages concerning with bandpass boxes compared to normal ported or sealed subwoofer boxes? |
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| help i need tofind out a way to fit three audiobahn 12 inch subs into the back of a 1991 pontiac 6000LE trunk, hinges prevent any regualr 3 sub enclosure box form being put in help me please if you have the knowlege please help ill email pics if i can get some good ones if you email me thanks a bunch i hope to put three audiobahn 12 ich subs in i already hasv two , HELLP |
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| I need a good box design for 4 10" rockfordfosgate subs. A hard hitting you know with travel |
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| I am looking for plans for a bass speaker box for two 12 inch rockfords subs |
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Anonymous | can any body tell me where i can find plans to build a bandpass box for a single 12" sub please E-Mail me at streetrider666@hotamil.com thank you |
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Timothy | I've got two 12" 1200watt sony xplod aluminum core subs running on a 1600watt xplod mono sub amp.. what would be the best enclosure for these subs? at whatever price.... |
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Brandon Keeley | Hey Timothy you should get either a sealed box or ported because bandpass is not one of my favorites. sealed gives you more of the accurate chest pounding bass and bandpass gives you the deep blurry kinda bass (not very accurate) and ported is kinda in between. If that helped ya any, good luck. I say sealed all the way. I have 2 12" audiobahn 550 watt RMS subs and I need plans for just a regular sealed box. If you can send them to me ASAP Brandon@davekeeley.com |
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| I have 2 12" 500watt pioneer subs and i wanna build seperate band pass boxes for them. does any one know where i can get some blueprints/measurements? If so E-mail me at jtbmx360@aol.com THANX |
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Anonymous | i built my own band pass box for my two 12" and it works graet just get the right wood and seal it good. |
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| i saw a 12 way bandpass box one nite with one ten in it and it was so loud it made my hat shake i want to know where i can get one of these? bertbigger@yahoo.com |
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kris stojanov | hey guys,i have 2 10" subs and a bandpass enclosure,which way is best,the cone facing the plexi glass or facing the other way?thanks |
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| you know what's funny? i read through all of these posts, and there are many questions but no real anwsers....and alot of the questions are repeated over and over (does nobody read??) anyways i am in the same boat as everyone else, i've got a Pioneer 10" sub i want to put into a bandpas box because i don't have alot of space and i want to make it easily removable, etc...anyways i know all about the advantages/disadvantages but i still want a bandpass enclosure. Sooooo can anyone point us in the right direction? maybe a website or something like that? thanks |
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| oh bye the way my e-mail is andrew_fox03@hotmail.com thanks again |
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T | Hey I herd in a forum that you are looking for an amp? I have an awsome amp for sale fore really really cheap. Iam selling my car so the entire system has to go. This amp works perfect and look like new. Take a look at the website http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/archive/thunder81000d.cfm retail price on this guy take a look and read the reviews http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/MTX81000D. Dont miss this deal I paid $650 bucks for this guys selling it for $260. Email me back tell me if you are interested. Tikolx333@yahoo.com tiko |
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REDSKIN | to andrew fox......don't know which Pioneer 10 you have so here are some boxes suitable for the current range if you know your f, qts and vas it's eay to find the box size. the volumes quoted do not allow for the amount of space taken up by by the speaker or port. Two of the boxes end up really small and if using a 3in port might be unworkable. TSW101PL F3 at 43.2hz and 110hz sealed vol. 6.67 ltrs portd vol. 4.82 ltrs 3in port 49.66cm long TW254F F3 at 39.7 and 104.8hz sealed vol. 21.17 ltrs ported vol. 21.16 ltrs 3in port 9.06cm long TSW255 F3 at 43.6 and 118.55hz sealed vol. 9.247 ltrs portd vol. 6.01 ltrs 3in port 37.4cm long the length of the ports can be shortened if smaller diameter ports are used but then you will start to lose output.I take No responsibility for these being correct as I am using the figures pioneer quote in the 2003 broshure. Hope this will help if they are not your 10's not tell me your vas, fs and qts and i'll try again. Please feel free to lavish me with thanks. |
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| LOL.....thank you thank you thank you! actually i have the TS W253C subwoofer, the numbers are: Fs 30.1 Qts 0.495 Vas 3.244 Xmax 0.236 suggested airspace for: Ported : 0.45cu' (using 3" x 11" port) Sealed : 0.8cu' Bandpass: 0.6cu' i would like a bandpass box because of the smaller size and it encloses the sub so it won't get damaged. See i have an Ext. Cab S-10 and it's going to sit back there, but when i put people in the back i will just throw the sub box into the bed of the truck and drive on. Otherwise i would go with the Ported i think, so if you have designes for both that would be great. Also if anyone has a copy of the DeathBox i hear so much about, i would love a copy of the plans to try it out. The biggest problem i've been having is finding actual designs, all i get is these numbers that don't mean anything to me, i use the calculators on different websites but all i want is the numbers i care about (like "12"x18"x20" and use a port this long by this wide, and put the sub here, etc..) i know it's ridiculous but i don't build boxes for a living, but i have built alot in the past from designs and they turned out great. Anyways thanks for all you help |
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| does anyone have the parameters for a pioneer 12" ts-w125dvc subwoofer. i have looked at all the arguments for and against band pases and i still want one. so if any one has the parameters for this speaker or the plans for a good band pass can you email them to me. ivanh_2000@hotmail.com thanx a million |
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REDSKIN | ok AF here goes......for your sub a ported box looks a bit to big, but a sealed or bandpass looks pretty good. OK no meaningless figures.... using 3/4 mdf cut..... 2 bits 13.5" x 22.25" 2 bits 12" x 22.25" 3 bits 12" x 12" you will also need 1 port 3" ID x 3" long Take one of the 22.25x13.5 and fix the 2 12x22.25 on top with 2 of the 12x12's at each end to make an open topped box measuring........ 13.5 x 12.75 x 22.25. Next take the remaining 12x12 and cut a suitable hole for your sub. Now for the tricky bit as my explanitory skills aren't that good........looking down on top of the box measure 11.25" from the left hand side and make a mark. Now place the 12x12 in to the box with the back of it lined up on the mark. Hope that makes sense it's the best I can do! You should end up with the box divided across the middle to make the two bandpass chambers the space on the left should measure 10.5x12x12 and the space on the right 9.5x12x12. The space on the right hand side is where the port needs to go. drill hole for the port in one of the sides or end of righthand space. Whoooo almost there......wire up speaker and fit speaker terminal block to end of left hand space. Mount the sub onto the middle baffle with the speaker basket facing the left. Glue in the port. Put the last bit of 22.25x12 on to of box and screw down. FINISHED!!!!!! Of course make sure all joints are air tight. I have also seen some boxes with stuffing on the sealed side and some 1" wadding on the walls of the ported side, might be worth a try to see if it changes anything but not esential. If that is all a bit to much make a box with external dimensions 9.5" x 13.5" x 16.5" out of 3/4" MDF. Stuff it or not and bolt your sub in and away you go. I will try to answer any problems you might have or if my directions are a bit fuzzy. |
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| Redskin....you are the man!! that is THE best help i have ever had! i will copy down the directions and keep you posted on how it works, again thank you thank you thank you thank you (lavishing with thanks ) |
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REDSKIN | Glad to be of help. Any one else fancy a design ? |
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Unregistered guest | sorry, here i am finally getting around to making this box.....at the end you said i should end up with a box that measures 9.5x13.5x16.5? that doesn't seem right, especially when the two pieces are 22.25 long. so the way i understood that was it should be a box measuring 22.25(L)x 13.5(W)x 13.5(H) right? so basically an internal measurement of 12" (W + H) by 20" (L) without the center 12 x 12 piece for my sub. Man i see now just how hard it is to talk about the box without seeing it! could you e-mail me to let me know if i'm right? andrew_fox03@hotmail.com and maybe i'll reply with a picture of it drawn out. Thanks again. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 269 Registered: 12-2003 | you noted you want bandpass because it's smaller? that's the largest box type you could have. bandpass are 1.5X to 2X the size of a sealed box for the same sub. just so you're aware. |
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New member Username: RedskinPost Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 | ah the age old problem of compromise. Size of box against bass extension. Interesting to note that if you used Pioneers recomended box volumes you end up with some pretty poor boxes. The ported has a -3db at 65hz and the sealed has a Q over 1.1 not good for transient response. And before Glasswolf points out that what looks good on paper doesn't always look good in-car these still have to be poor. Mind you if you took the volume of the bandpass box I designed and use that as your recomended volume you could get a really nice sealed box or quite a good ported one. Hope you got the email ok. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 276 Registered: 12-2003 | oh hey I agree, the pioneer may end up working better in bandpass. that's primarily because the bandpass box will help mask what a total piece of sh** that Pioneer sub really is Buy good subs to begin with and with a good enclosure and good clean power, you shouldn't really encounter an issue with low end extension. Heck, in a good sealed box, good subs should reach a totally flat response down to about 9Hz, thanks to cabin gain compensation for rolloff below the vehicle's transfer point. |
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Unregistered guest | Hi Redskin, i did get your e-mail (ty) and it made perfect sense. I should have it done in the next few days or so...as far as pioneer subs being crap.....i've always liked them, they sound good and you don't have to spend a pile on them. I have never had a competition type stereo in any of my vehicles i just like good clean sound with some nice volume and bass. I do want a bandpass box for two reasons actually, one is the space (22.25x13.5x13.5 is not very big) and two is the fact that the subwoofer is inside the box and protected from everything, which means when i pull the box out of the truck i won't have to worry about it getting damaged, i can just throw it in the back and drive on. Anyways i will be back to let you know how it went, and i'll send you some pics when i'm done Redskin. Take it easy and don't do anything you wouldn't step in. |
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jay amaro Unregistered guest | i would be more than happy to send box designs to anyone who needs them but contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as a off the shelf universal sub box for any and all speakers. it is a lie if anyone says it...you can buy a box yes and it will work, that much is true but if it is the ideal enclosure and has your driver (subwoofer) performing and sounding its best then i think its safe to say im 100% sure no that wont happen ever. a speaker box is a very real science and using theile/small parameters you can design and build a box to compliment a subwoofer but those nmbers are very necessary and there is no such thing of guessing or trial and error. if anyone needs help and provides the parameters for their sub then i can gladly design and make suggestions for a speaker box. as for some information about the different box designs heres a description: http://www.danmarx.org/audioinnovation/index.html after reading that youll maybe understand that there is no perfect box except maybe the bose acoustimass but i guess thats why its patented!! but the box you choose should be in relation to the type of bass you want and your equiptment. every box out there has its good and bad points. also just a word of warning just about all speaker boxes are very particular from the most simple sealed box to the hardest and most complicated especially for a novice which is a band pass. a good general rule is if you have to ask a question about it then you dont know enough to build it. i am not saying that to insult anyone and what i mean is there is only a correct way and a wrong way for things like a ported box, 6th order band pass, 4th order band pass and isobaric designs and none of these should be taken lightly and one standard box cant be changed into something else by drilling a hole or anything like that. hope this helps. jay |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Jay, interesting info. |
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New member Username: RedskinPost Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 | I might be wrong but I thought the idea of a bandpass enclosure was thought of way before the Bose cowboys decided it was their idea? It seems to me from what I've read that Bose only get to defend that dubious patent by having the biggest lawyers and the most cash. That moan aside how an acoustimass "sub" whose low end barely drops towards the low bass zone could be reguarded as perfect is odd to sa the least. Surely telling anyone "if they have to ask then you don't know enough to build it" is insulting? I didn't know a bunch of stuff but guess what? I ASKED and guess what? some people actually answered the questions I had so that my knowledge expanded so that I was able to find out my own answers to my own problems, be it from mending my first bicycle to building my first car and, though I say it in hushed tones so elitists don't get annoyed, my first car stereo. |
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jay amaro Unregistered guest | im sorry about the offensive comment i dont mean that in a harmful or hurtful way. yes there are somethings to ask and one can learn from by answers but bandpass boxes isnot one of those things. that would be like saying asking how to rebuild an engine and doing it are 2 different things. one good example is you can buy a chilton or haynes manual at any nationwide auto parts store which can explain in detail and show you with pictures how to rebuild an engine but i gaurantee the results wont make anyone happy. ive worked with cars both body work, engines and audio and electrical systems for about 16 years and i am 32 now and theres alot more to some things that you have to learn first hand but no amount of talk or print can prepare you for. the patented bose system is a very complicated and almost perfected band pass system it is awarded a patent by the USPTO and no amount of money or team of lawyers will help there and patents are denied or awarded many very large corporations every year without influence of who is submitting the patent. i too have something my lawyer has handled for me regarding a patent and it is a faceless long and detailed process that can get very expensive but bose didnt reinvent the wheel nor did they steal an idea but what they did do is take a design and overcome the limitations and that very much deserved a patent and the designs and formulas they use are very complicated and precise and thats something the home do it yourselfer sadly will not be able to reach the sameresults. having said that a lesser complicated band pass design also hold that true for it. in recent years ive seen dvc, 2 ohm and band pass become the only thing people know and want yet have absolutely no understanding of what the advantages or disadvantages of it are and it has become almost common place that it is necessary. a band pass in short can make a great amount of bass but ONLY in a very specific and limited range and building the box is complicated enough but without the knowledge to tune the box how would one know what range to tune the box for? what happens to frequencies before and after that range? if thats the box to be used then how full will the entire sound spectrum be reproduced which for the human ear is 20mhz to 20 khz? will all that be a goal achieved and something to be tried to reach? the only thing i want to convey is nothing and that means absolutely nothing is a standard or universal in high end audio which is where band pass of all things really belongs. when designing such a system properly many things are considered such as the drivers, car shape, car size, placement of listeners, natural acoustics of the vehicle, amount of glass, box location (even though bass is unidirectional), then finally box dimensions and port sizes and lengths, amp size and a few other things. so when a truly well designed and built band pass box is used will the amateur consider all those things and design a proper box accordingly? most certainly not but just because one guy has a band pass box around town or at a car show or local comptetition and it sounds good and works doesnot mean you can reproduce that result with a bandpass box with another driver. ok i will say this is anyone has whatever brand subwoofer and they want a band pass box then IF they went out and found someone with a properly designed box using the correct formulas that are used and had a very similiar vehicle and reproduced the box in exactness and used the same drivers and amp then yes that would work. im all for someone getting into this and hands on involvement but some real knowledge is also necessary and those who do it for a living such as i do take extra special attention to do everything properly and theres a reason why high end audio professionals and shops exist across the country, this is very precise stuff. one final thing to illustrate my point ill use 2 users: PERSON A- has 2 15" dvc subs wired at 2 ohms each and sends 1000 watts to each sub in a band pass box so he has a 2 ohm system and a band pass box. PERSON B- has one 15" in a ported box with 500 watts and a single mono amp at 4 ohms to the sub. which is better? who has more bass? will person A come out better...is 2000 watts gauranteed to make that happen? why because the 2 ohm load? because the dvc subs? because its a band pass box? the answer is and i left brands out onpurpose because any brand can be substituted there and to keep things fair in that illustration for both systems one brand should be applied to both the A and B user but first of all person A in a very limited range will have NOT more but louder bass but person B will have more of a flat responce which is what you aim for and that system in a well made box can hit harder, give more accurate bass reproduction across a wider spectrum of the low frequencies so using that example the system of person B would be far superior in more ways than 1 and all that with less subwoofers, less power and not the much sought after 2 ohms. for some reason the band pass is a very popular be all end all of the subwoofer enclosures so lets take a kicker solobaric s15 and in a band pass box heres the results of the frequencies it can reproduce using 1w/1m. at peak performance levels bandpass: it peaks twice once at 49.38hz putting out 93.55db then again at 129.69hz putting out 101.43db (at 20hz the db is only 70.67 which is ultra ultra low bass you will hear but more importantly feel) now keep in mind thats only one watt and the db's will go up proportionately higher in that frequency range with more wattage...but now lets do everything the same, same exact sub but with a different box design sealed: at 20hz output is 81.96hz and climbs to peak at 88db at 56.58hz then flattens out across the entire bass range beyond 300hz ported: at 20hz output is 87.92db and peaks at 88db at 21hz and flattens out al the way across the spectrum past 300hz like the sealed. all of that is the results from the exact same subwoofer and now if you look at those numbers its very easy to see a few things. bandpass=higher spl or db numbers but at only and i repeat only at 49hz and 129hz does the bandpass really shine and if the music you listen to will only play bass in those 2 specific frequencies then yes band pass is definitely the way to go but since theres many different kinds of bass and a song will have all kinds of bass levelswithin it wether it be rock, rap, techno etc then you can see if all you want is a little limited very specific bass then a bandpass is great but if you want to hear all the other bass ranges and frequencies then sealed or ported is much a much better choice for sound quality and more types of music and accurate reproduction. i hope this cleared some things up and just because something is currently in style and popular or in a magazine, a few people in town have it or whatever or 9 out of 10 people talk about it well that doesnt always make it the best thing. i remember when flat speakers were all the rage well im glad that never caught on. hope everyone has a great new years and im not here to hurt im here to help. jay |
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New member Username: HcyankeesPost Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi, im just trying to figure out whats a good woofer to use for bandpass boxes. I prefer 10inch subs. Cant afford the high end woofers like JL Audio and Cerwin Vega, what do u suggest on 10inch subs for Bandpass boxes??? |
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Unregistered guest | LOL |
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Unregistered guest | LMFAO |
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Unregistered guest | Redskin, you should e-mail me again, i have the box done so i've got pictures to send you. I was wondering what a good set up for that box would be? what should i set the crossover at? i'm not sure what the box is tuned at. take it easy. |
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New member Username: RedskinPost Number: 22 Registered: 12-2003 | I hate replying to long posts! it takes far to much effort. Obviously you're a pro Bose sort of chap and I will not hold that against you. But can you seriously claim a "accoustimass" box as near perfect. The design might be patented but we all know whats in the box, for example lets take the "near perfect Accoustimass 3" it's got 1 lets count them 1 5.25" speaker in there. Now you can apply fancy box design as much as you like but 5.25" does not a sub woofer make. Even Bose don't tell you what sort of frequency response to expect from their wonderfull speakers. I won't even begin to comment on haynes manuals. Oh well prehaps I will...I'd defy a mechanic to strip anything down with one of those. The ammount of times I've "gently pried the whatsit" only to spend 3hrs with a big hammer and a large chisel. Lets not forget the handy troubleshooting section at the end of each chapter that tells you how to fix every malady your car has except the one you've got! oops got a bit sidetracked. Now where was I, oh yes I remember sub box design. I will go out on a limb here but I think as long as you can read and work a calculator you will be able to design any box you like form sealed to bandpass. I should know I've done it and I'm not even a rocket scientist. If you can work a computer you will be able to download software and make your box designs even quicker. If you're really good at working a computer you might even find some software to design 8th order bandpass boxes just like Bose. I would say that as long as you can vaguely understand what a book on speaker design is saying you'll have no trouble. You say that no matter how much reading or talking you do you will not be able to grasp it. I have to dissagree if you checkout the bandpass thread on this forum you'll see that an Andrew Fox wanted to make a bandpass box for his pioneer sub. He asked the question and got an answer advising the volumes required for the front and rear chambers and the length of the port. He then posted again because he wan't sure if he was reading it right. Again he was answered with a slightly more detailed how to and since then has gone onto build the box and the last I heard was about to carpet it and get ready for a liile testing. This was achived by someone who had never built a box before. You mention the human hearing range as being from 20mhz-20khz. Well for starters mhz means megahertz which is up there with radio frequency. If you mean 20hz I suppose you might be right but I suspect we can here lower although I haven't had a hearing test recently. As all this forum is about is subs who cares if the "sound spectrum" is reproduced I'm only interested in the bass end from 20-200hz, I don't even care what is happening at 300hz as I suspect along with me most of us running subs have our crossovers set at about 80hz as an upper limit. taking you're person A/B comparison surely person A has either a 1ohm or 4ohm system. It's imposible to wire 2 2ohm subs into a 2ohm load. Apart from that this example has so many variables no one could answer as to which would be best. I note that neither do you. Moving on to our Kicker 15 results in diferent boxes. Oh dear it seems there has been some incorrect box design going on here. When you design a bandpass box you end up with a frequency response that looks like one camels hump with a FLAT bit on top. If your design has two peaks it is seriously misaligned and would sound crap, especially with a 36db! diference between them. But then again surely you'd know this. As these figures are so precise I'd be interested to know what software you uesd to model it so that I may avoid it if these are the best box recomendations it can come upwith. Your sealed and ported results don't mean anything without the "Q" used for the sealed box or the alignment used for the ported. As both will have an effect on how much db can be expected from a given box. Going back to your bandpass results I've spent 2mins with my trusted book and calculator to design a box that covers 29-88hz and modeled it on my software, just to prove to myself I wasn't talking crap. This gives a lovely smooth hump, no 36db dips for me. And if Glasswolfs reading this I know it's not a real incar RTA'd response but better to be close before ou cut the wood. Yes I'll agree that there are better ways of getting more sq but I would say most peoples ears aren't that good at finding small differences between speaker boxes unless it really sounds crap. Most people are looking for a sub system that shakes your chest and damages your ears. Oh and it needs to have the brand of the week. Yes bandpass boxes do have limitations but as long as you are aware of these they pose no extra problems. See now you've made me waste ages typing all this. p.s. the bandpass box was first patented in 1934 this was 50 years before the Bose patent where the rear chamber is vented as well as the front. Which sounds like reinventing the wheel to me, but even if it's not why waste the design on 5.25" drivers. |
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New member Username: RedskinPost Number: 24 Registered: 12-2003 | Hi AF. Don't worry what the box is tuned to just set your crossover to 80hz for starters and crank up the volume. Please send me the completed pics I dying to see what it turned out like. Managed to lose your e-mail so here's mine devereux76@aol.com |
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jay amaro Unregistered guest | sorry i was being sarcastic about the accuracy of the bose system and if truth be told there is no accurate band pass system which i mainly refer to the 4th and 6th order designs and im not as aquanted with the 8th order as you are but i am aware of its inherent limitations like all band pass enclosures which basically means indirectly bandpass designs are crap. the bose system however is tuned and designed to use the acoustics of a room namely the walls and floor but mainly the walls to direct the sound waves and amplify through acoustics. this works within a certain human ideal audible range that they focused on for the perception of a larger system. however this is a poor design for a car. actually given the distortion propeties of bandpass coupled with its limited range then i would say of all enclosure types this system (4th, 6th or 8th) is probably the worst choices out there but like you said if someone knows the limitations and it seems the main concensus is that a bandpass is the only and best way then i guess if some of the software you mention and some questions asked/answered and computer savvy then yes i guess i was wrong to speak ill of the band pass box. it will now and forever be my last choice as an ideal enclosure but as you pointed out "Most people are looking for a sub system that shakes your chest and damages your ears" so in that case and if that were even true...happy experimenting and use of a bandpass. spl can be reached by many means and if high numbers are all that matters as opposed to clean balanced sounds i know freight trains that produce some great numbers and if youve ever stood near a railroad switching yard thats noise you can feel, keyword being noise. im not trying to tell anyone whats best for them but i actually do care about ideal sound reproduction and carefully selected roll off points whether that be sub/bass/midbass/mids/highs and for those that know better or have a real understanding of that id rather try and illustrate the benefits of that rather than indulge in something that almost amounts to garbage (yes im saying it bandpass is almost worthless) and as the bose system illustrates takes an entire room to sound good. jay |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 492 Registered: 12-2003 | if I recall, Bose pretty much uses a transmission line enclosure design for their systems, such as the wave radio. it's a waveform guide box built around relatively small speakers which is what yields the lower end extension it does have but I'm not much of a Bose fan at all. home or car |
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Andrew Fox Unregistered guest | I love this place.... Redskin, i will be sending pics later on today to your e-mail (which i also managed to lose!) thanks again. AF |
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New member Username: RedskinPost Number: 25 Registered: 12-2003 | Bose used bandpass for earlier designs but seemed to have switch to TL on later systems like Accoustimass 16 for 6.1 reproduction. Even this latest example uses 3 of their beloved 5.25" drivers. Not that needs to be a disadvantage, there was a design kicking about in Speakerbuilder a few years back that used them to great effect but even that had 8 of them to get the cone area up to a reasonable amount. Although you seem to be opposed to my "damage your ears shake your chest" theory most posts seem to be of the how much can I squeeze in the back type. Personally I feel much more could be done to truely represent the more niche corners of this hobby that just don't seem to be getting a real voice. Where are the articals on mirror placement, how can I get my neons to flash with the beat, is deep button velvet ok for box covering and lets not forget the truely important problems that face us such as will my system attract the opposite sex. |
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jay amaro Unregistered guest | hey redskin, well yeah i will agree with this much despite limitations if spl was the only goal then bandpass has its home there. personally i always want a customer to have a well designed and well built system for appearance and performance while trying to manage costs. i typically discourage band pass, plexi or lexan panels and also anything that could affect performance but yeah the use of neon, blacklights and exotic coverings seem cool. i want any customer to be happy and have what they truly want but i dont build spl systems that have limitations and i am more than happy to walk them to one of the other 15 or so custom audio shops in town. high spl can be reached through other means but ok let that go. as for the opposite sex well i will say this... not only does the bass provide alot of vibrations within the car from the seat springs (vibrations you can feel but not hear anything that rattles has been isolated in my car) but also for extra measure i have a "bass shaker" under the passenger seat and under the center of the rear seat. lets just say thats the first thing any passenger of the opposite sex notices right away that its alot of fun to ride in the camaro and it looks alot better than the washing machine!! i woulda put one under the drivers seat but its a 6 way power seat and i dont wanna mess up the motors ive already had to replace the motor that closes my hatch twice.  so anyways i always tend to be long winded but while ported and sealed may seem plain compared to some designs but in short "theres more than one way to skin a cat" jay |
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stinky pig Unregistered guest | I think redskin was being sarcastic. |
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anon Unregistered guest | yeah stinky pig is right |
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stinky pig Unregistered guest | i am definitly right..... |
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New member Username: OstatestephaniePost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | is alphasonik a good brand.. i have been very patient looking for subs.. i just want it easy.. i dont want to shake the car next to me .. i just want/need more bass in my '96 ford explorer w/ after market speakers and a sony cd/mp3 player.. dual 400-watt, 10" alphasonik subs and a 2-channel amplifier that features a high- and low-pass crossover and a 360-watt peak power rating. hopefully it will be decent.. if anyone knows anything let me know.. it seems to be rated pretty good and the reviews are good too! |
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AF Unregistered guest | I think this post is dead..... |
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New member Username: RedskinPost Number: 29 Registered: 12-2003 | How could a thread die after only 76 posts? |
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