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New member Username: WabkabPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-04 | I am considering a pre-amp upgrade for my B&K 5 x 200 amp. I currently use a Marantz SR- 7200 receiver, but most all new upper level receivers have upconversion to component video and parametric speaker equalization. I wonder what real benefits a separate pre/pro with less features and being more costly would be? I've read and heard good things about the Shark DAC's in the Denon's and wonder if the $ 1500 dollar range pre/pro's offer significantly better sound. Seems tempting to run a system with a Yammi 750/1400 or Denon 2805 for 600 or so. Also, anyone hear of when DVI/HDMI switching is becoming a option on pre-pros or receivers? Thanks Tony B |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 762 Registered: Dec-03 | tony i am currently using an hk525 reciever as my preamp. i have been lurking for quite some time at prepros and the one that is high on my list is the rotel 1068. now i use some of the amps in my reciever as well as preamp out all channels so i still like the idea of a reciever. the other reciever i was contemplating was the arcam av300 supposably has very close to the same inards as their highly regarded prepro. i can't decide either if a prepro will neccasarely sound better than using a reciever. sorry! |
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New member Username: WabkabPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-04 | Kegger, I'm thinking since my Marantz receiver has a decent proccessing, if I wait a year, video upconversion will become commonplace in preamps. Then, I may make the move. I still wonder if the preamp outs on receivers are an afterthough, or if the same quality signal is sent through them(accepting that it can only be as good as the receivers DAC chips, etc. I like the new line up of the H/K receivers. Have you heard if the are any major differences as compared to 525? The Rotel would be awsome. I just saw a photo of it in the new august Home Theater mag. Have you priced that one anywhere? I see it retails for 1,699 which puts it contention with B&K and Sherbourn/Atlantic prepros. Oh yea, the reason I'm stuck on the upconversion thing is the switching is easier on the family. Keep them happy, and I get to listen and watch more! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 785 Registered: Dec-03 | Tony Broussard this: "i like the new line up of the H/K receivers. Have you heard if the are any major differences as compared to 525?" supposably not really any difference. and yes i too understand the convienvence of video upconversion. also "The Rotel would be awsome. I just saw a photo of it in the new august Home Theater mag. Have you priced that one anywhere? I see it retails for 1,699 " yah it sells for about $1700. and i too was looking at the b&k ref. 50 since it came down in price by about $1250 man what a nice unit. those were/are about the only 2 on my short list at this time. but i think i am waiting also. when i added the external amplification to the reciever it made a night and day difference. so my feeling "could be wrong" is that it's not so much that the prepro is better than the reciever for a processor "given you have good dacs" but using better external amplification is where you get the difference. what is your thought since you are doing the same? did you notice a big difference going external amps? |
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New member Username: WabkabPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-04 | Yes, when I added the B&K amp, even my ears heard a significant difference at all volume levels. I think many system changes are subtle, but doubling the wattage(and probably more than that in real world amplification)was not subtle. It sounds like most people are having significant improvement with the new parametric equalizers and such too. My speakers are B&W cdm7nt and center. Not bad. I need to eventually improve on my 5 y/o Velodyne sub one day, too. Back to your last question, of course the salespeople all say that the preamp is just as important as the amp and kind of snicker when I tell them that I'm using a Marantz receiver. Hell, that sounded very nice at low to moderate levels and I wouldn't have known the difference if I hadn't added the amp. I guess that what makes it fun. I think my dealer would probably let me take one home and hook it up to check it out, but again...no upconversion etc. Let us know if you take the plunge and I'll wait till one of those midrange preamps upconvert. Unless, someone could convince me that a less than 1K receiver would be just as good. Ultimately, I may not be able to hear a difference. I guess I should bring one home and compare since I don't think there would be much preamp difference in my receiver and the simalar models new from marantz, denon, h/k, yamaha, nad for pushing my amp. I'd be a little hesitant with the nad and even my own marantz brand for qc issues the last few years. There is somthing to be said for reliability. I had a Marantz MM9000 amp, lost a channel and ultimatly wasn't worth fixing with the same model selling for about 600 at authorized internet dealer. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 786 Registered: Dec-03 | good stuff tony if you make any major changes in your system i'd love to hear. so if you would post it on this thread would be great as i will do the same. maybe we can learn from one another. i am currently integrating a tube 2 channel preamp into my system that i have wired for both 2 channel playback and running into it from the main preamp out of the reciever. so i can use it for 2 channel playback as well as multi channel front assaignment. then from the tube preamp out to my rotel amp to power the mains. i am really liking how well it sounds for music! i'm running a rotel 3x200 up front and 2 kenwood m2a's 200x2 for the other 4 rears. with modified jbl and klipsch speakers and a pair of bipole eosone surrounds on the sides.with 4 homemade subs jbl and rockford fosgate powered by a crown amp. i am also running a denon 2200 universal sacd/dvd-audio player for my music and movies. (56" widescreen hd) maybe projector next! i'm looking into a relatively inexpensive 2channel dac for better cd playback from the denon. well that's my system all pieced together but finally sounding realy realy good. |
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New member Username: Near_sotaWindham, Maine USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-04 | I also have a 5ch. B&K which I want to use in a second system and was looking for a Receiver which I can use it's Pre-Outs with that will not cost a lot. I would want it to have a pretty good Phono amp in it. Any ideas,TIA? |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 814 Registered: Dec-03 | i don't use a phono.so i don't know but the hk525 works realy nice for me. you may want to choose one of the lower models if you don't need the power of the 525. |
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New member Username: WabkabPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-04 | response to Larry Grac I think the Yamahas and Denon's have phono outs. The Yamaha 750 I think can be gotten online for the 500 range and 1400 for 600 or so. I don't think you get 192/24 DAC until you approach 700 to 1K. The marantz line doesn't have a phono section in that range. Sounds as if the amps make a greater difference than preamps from the comments regarding poor preamp sections on NAD's, yet superior overall sound because of their great amp sections. Let me know what you end up getting and how it works out with your B&K. I may do the same soon. Tony B |
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New member Username: WabkabPost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-04 | response to Kegger, Wow, Your system sounds unreal and hopefully sounds that way too. Seems like the new Rotel would be a good way to go for you. Or wait and I bet next years crop of preamps will add some bells and whistles. |
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New member Username: Near_sotaWindham, Maine USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-04 | I have tried NAD & Rotel Pre-Amps with my B&K amps. The Rotel was superior to the NAD while an FT Audio Passive was superior to both of them. With a Passive Controller's you get what you put on and if it is a bad recording which most are it will sound like trash. There are gain issues which you have to be aware of also to get proper sound levels. I goot around this by having an outboard DAC with 7v output. I am thinking of just getting a used Pre-Amp with Phono instead of a Receiver because of cost. If I used digital I would just say the hell with it and get a digital receiver. Went to Tweeter Etc. Today and was surprised that the B&K PT-5 is sold with no Phonstage. Pay more for less I think unless I am missing something. Will have to look. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1173 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry Grac sounds like you got 1 heck of a system also their. I have the b&k pt3 series 2 preamp same as pt5 without balanced aoutputs. it's nice for the money and very flexable. Tony Broussard anything new for you. i've recently gone full blown tube wild. 2 dynaco pat3 tube preamps. 1 rogue eighty-eighty tube amp. 2 dynaco st-70 tube amps. 1 EICO HF-85 tube preamp. 1 golden tube audio se-40 tube amp. 1 dared sl2004 tube preamp. like i said tube crazy. lovin the smooth sounds of these things. |
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New member Username: Near_sotaWindham, Maine USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-04 | My speakers are the mainstay of my system. They are all Modified NEARs. I would like to get a Plinius Amp and use a Passive again for cable design. I will use the Panny Receiver for my SS system till I find better seperated that do bth HT and 2channel equally good. Larry |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1180 Registered: Dec-03 | hey larry have you looked at the arcam av8 prepro? |
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New member Username: Near_sotaWindham, Maine USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-04 | Arcam seems to be a name that others like over B&K. What is the listprice,how new is it,can it be updated by downloads and are there any reviews of it? The ones I have looked at are the Rotels and the Anthem SS processors which are on the lower rung of the paying scale. The Panny Receiver is good for only $300 ,but I like seperated as you can tailor them better to ones taste and speaker arrangement. Larry |
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Bronze Member Username: WabkabPost Number: 14 Registered: Jul-04 | Well, I did sell my Marantz 7200 and got a Denon 2805 to use as my pre-amp for the reference B&K. I decided to take advantage of the video upconversion(works great) and I needed a powered zone 2 for new zones on my lanai and living room dining room. You can just assign the rear surrounds to zone two and it also has a video out. Slick and sounds good. Hadn't had it long enough to really evaluate the nuances. Remote is bleak, not as good as the the one on the Marantz. Anyhow, it's all fun, but not in the audiophile league you guys are in. But, it is all fun! Happy shoppin and listnin. Tony |
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New member Username: Near_sotaWindham, Maine USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Jul-04 | Hey,you have better than BOSE and you look to get the most out of your audio experience you're in the audiophile league same as anyone else. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1181 Registered: Dec-03 | larry hears a couple links to the arcam. IT'S PRICEY! BETWEEN $4000-$5000 but i don't know what you want to spend. http://www.hometheatermag.com/preampsurroundprocessors/145/ http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/FMJAV8SHEET.pdf http://www.aslgroup.com/arcam/ReviewsAV8.htm http://www.stereoexchange.com/catalogue/product.cfm/hurl/id=31/categoryid=57 |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1182 Registered: Dec-03 | Tony Broussard i'll bet with the combo of the b&k amp and denon as a prepro it sounds pretty sweet. yah i like the upconversion stuff also pretty handy! i don't have a use for the second room thing and i'm using my rear channels for 7.1 but could as the h/k also has that feature. are you running sacd/dvd-a? |
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Bronze Member Username: WabkabPost Number: 15 Registered: Jul-04 | Hey folks, up early to check on our pending Hurricane! It's coming right at us. Anyway, thanks Larry, you're right, a good part of it is the enjoyment/experimentation and I think I'm getting some improvement with the auto setup/parametric thing---still experimenting though. Kegger, I recently changed out my Pioneer 563 universal for a Toshiba 5 disc universal(dirt cheap @bestbuy). It plays a couple of dvd audio discs that the pioneer wouldn't. Seems to sound just as good, but no front panel cursors. This, I could sell to the family as one player/taking out two. Would've liked to have gotten that open box Pio 47i at sound advice for 400--but couldn't justify. Next plan is modifying our built in ent center to accomadate new JVC DILA 52 inch LCOS model. Maybe Xmas! Home Theater has arrived! Now let's hope the house and home makes it through the storm. Wish us well. Regards, Tony B |
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Bronze Member Username: WabkabPost Number: 16 Registered: Jul-04 | Kegger, I saw the arcam line across the street at a new A/V store- Man, that stuff look/feels sweet-hell I didn't even listen to it. The've also got Revel speakers and a ton of high end a/v stuff from fujitsu plasmas, a bunch of projectors--custom install type of place, but not as snobby- gotta make an appointment as the old mainstay joint in town-not talking about Sound Advice. They actually have nice Sound rooms to go along with home theater. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1197 Registered: Dec-03 | tony that shop sounds nice. are you still above water down there? i hope everything is allright! |
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Bronze Member Username: WabkabPost Number: 17 Registered: Jul-04 | All is well. We really dodged a bullet here in Sarasota. The swath of destruction is only 40 miles away, though. New Denon 2805 working well as pre-amp and powered zone 2 for my new speakers in the house, outside and 27" cheapo TV for NFL Sunday Ticket this season(viewed from poolside). I guess Huricanes are one of the prices to pay to live in FLA. Tony B |
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New member Username: Near_sotaWindham, Maine USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Jul-04 | It is a mess down there from what I have seen on the news. I was down in Miami when the last one hit there. They were lucky the eye did not hit downtown. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1227 Registered: Dec-03 | glad to hear al is good tony! what a mess is right! |