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Anonymous | First of all, explain to me what is so special about the $6500 MartinLogan subs. Also, i was wondering what exactly does "off-axis" mean when it comes to speakers? I keep hearing that term im just confused. I also want to say that i appreciate the help you have given me and fellow car audio enthusiasts on this web page, and i look forward to learning more about stereo equipment from you. Thanks man. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 324 Registered: 12-2003 | MartinLogan actually makes home audio speakers.. they do make (home theater) subs, but mainly they are known for their ESL (electrostatic panel) mains. You already know how a conventional speaker works, more or less. electrical voltage is sent to the speaker, which causes the voice coil to move back and forth within the magnet structure, moving the cone back and forth, and producing sound. Ok, with the ESL speakers, they use a large metal mesh screen, which is charged with 120VAC. as the voltage sent to the panel is altered slightly by the signal sent to it (music) the change in voltage causes the mesh screen (ESL) to vibrate, or resonate, producing sound. This yields an amazingly natural, flat, di-pole sound from about 250Hz up to around 52KHz. Below 250Hz, the speakers use an 8" and a 10" woofer in a transmissionline enclosure below the ESL panel, for reproducing a well-blended, smooth, and pretty hard hitting low end. www.martinlogan.com is the webiste. go to "gallery" then click on the "Odessey" speakers. They are rather odd looking speakers, but they are amazing. When I auditioned them, I listened to a jazz CD, and I could close my eyes, and point to where each musician was sitting during the recording.. then I could tell you which way the person was facing. The imaging is astounding, and worth at least an audition given the chance. They make mains that sell for $2,000 up to $75,000 per pair. Ok, Axis. On-axis means that you're in the "sweet spot" directly equidistant from both speakers (in a stereo setting.) so that sound from both speakers reaches you at the same time for ideal imaging. This goes hand in hand with "in phase" which is when the speakers are pointed directly at you, so that the sound waves they produce are "in phase" (zero degree shift, since the wave goes straight from the speaker to you. no reflection) off-axis means that you are not equidistant from both left and right speakers. phase-shift means the speaker is pointed somewhere other than directly at you. be that up at the windshield, sideways at your ankles, etc. off-axis imaging is the ability to still hear "left and right" stereo separation when you are off-axis, or closer to one speaker than the other. imaging, is the ability to listen to a stereo recording and be able to pick out where each person is in the recording, positionally. This is an effect of good stereo separation as well as good speaker or system design. |
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New member Username: Josh_hellerPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | I have another question. Most component speakers in the doors of cars are placed flat in the door, like in the stock locations. But i heard that it might be better having the speakers angled more toward the listener. Do you think that would make a noticable difference? |
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New member Username: Josh_hellerPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | Also, do you know if there is any special techniques manufacturers will use to make a speaker perform well off-axis? Off the subject, i noticed that when i have my stereo on i hear a slight rumbling sound from the sub. I have a sony (sucks) cdx-m630 and it does not have 0-bit mute. So in between songs, i will notice this sound coming from the sub, thats almost static like, yet it is all the low freq range. Its not that loud and it seems like it poses no threat to the sub, but i cant tell. It could be distorted sound coming from the HU. Any ideas? By the way, merry christmas. Im in the navy and stuck on my ship today. sucks |
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New member Username: Josh_hellerPost Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 | i have yet another question. i have a 500/1 powering a 10W7 and a 300/4 powering VR525 components and TR600 coaxials in the back. now is there anyway i can somewhat estimate the SPL of the whole system? i know its not horriblely loud, but i would like to know how loud it can get, because im not really into going deaf. Im more into SQ than SPL. Personally, i think spl is silly. Ive seen these cars in spl competitions and all the windows are bolted plex-glass, and the only thing under the hoods are alternators and batteries. they cant even be driven! Whats the point of that? |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 330 Registered: 12-2003 | having the speakers angled toward you will help with phase shift, as well as imaging, yes. speakers with good off-axis performance generally have a wide dispersion. they produce sound in a fairly wide spread, instead of being more directional. that sound you hear may be a ground loop or bad ground.. make sure the amp is well grounded, to bare chassis metal. I hope things go well in spite of being stuck on the ship. best way to find out your SPL is to drop by any decent car audio shop and have it metered on an RTA. If you were close by I could do it.. but you're nowhere near me.. heh too many factors to accurately guess SPL of a system. |
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New member Username: Josh_hellerPost Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 | well, thanks again for the info. Its nice that there is an expert in this field that is nice enough to help me out with my questions. I was wondering something. You said that you are a master installer. Do you own a car audio shop? Ive really gotten into the car audio field, and im trying to figure out a great career for myself after i get out of the navy. I joined the navy to be a nuclear engineer, and i finished a 6 month electrical engineering school for that field (which was an associates equivalent), but im going to get a bachelors through the navy one way or another before i get out. I realize these forums are for car audio enthusiasts and not career counselors, but do you have any advice? Well, enjoy the holidays, GlassWolf, and i hope to hear from you soon. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 342 Registered: 12-2003 | I don't own a shop, no. I actually own a sign shop, doing vehicle and store graphics and such. I worked in both sales and as an installer though for a smaller high end chain of shops in the Va/Md/DC area through the 90s though. electrical engineering is a great field, but honestly car audio doesn't pay tremendously, and if you're an installer, it's a lot like being a mechanic. a lot of back breaking work, pay that isn't the greatest, etc. There are perks, like great pricing on the equipment, and all.. but over all, not a field I'd recommend when you can do a lot better as say, an electrician or an engineer in a more legitimate field that you can stay with as you get older. just my thoughts. the certifications for MECP and such can be gained without working in a shop if you know electrical principles, and you know how to install things. a lot of it is common sense anyway. my new years resolution is to be nicer to people this coming year, I think.. heh I have a feeling that's going to involve answering less threads on the forum, since a lot of them would otherwise be honest opinions on peoples' choices in equipment. Anyway best of luck |
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Anonymous | first of all, i think thats a great new years resolution, but if you dont mind, (its obviously up to you, of course) still continuing to answer to my threads, i would greatly appreciate it. Not to kiss your a ss, but i believe that you have the most car audio knowledge out of everyone on this forum. So i not only appreciate, but also look forward to seeing your posts. By the way, where in the Va/Md/DC area did you work? I spent about 16 years of my life in fredericksburg, Va, which is about 45 mins north of richmond, va, and 1 hour south of DC. Im in san diego right now, because of the navy. Its nice to get away from home at times. I am really interested in car audio but i realize that it would work much better as a hobby than a profession. Plus i can get a degree through the navy for free, and its going to specialize in a field that i can not only enjoy, but bring in a hefty income through. That is my goal. Thanks again for the help. By the way, im posting as anonymous because my username is screwed up. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 351 Registered: 12-2003 | Maybe not the most, but I'm probably up there.. not to be modest. Some others here seem to have pretty good advice, too. thanks. I worked in Springfield, Va, for a place called Greg Sound & Communication. I spent the better part of my school years living in Fairfax County. EE is a great field.. car audio is a great hobby. heh That's about the best way to sum it up. When I started working in this field, I was in college, so it was a good job that I could do without being 9 to 5. My real work is in the IT field, with graphic design and consulting. does much better. I hear ya on using the Navy for career education. My best friend did his stint in the Army, became an air traffic controller, then got out as soon as his time was up, and went to work for the FAA. He's a controller now in DC. heh Jumped to just under six figures a year as soon as he got out of the Army. Can't beat that with a stick. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 30 Registered: 12-2003 | hmm im not up on double E salaries but i would think IT is a better area. i know there r different IS/IT programs...bachelors or masters. isnt starting IT salary around $85K/yr glass? i know friends in IT that r pretty well off. as for the military, yeah they offered some nice medical scholarships too...getting paid to go to school, what a concept. not only do have have spending money but dont have to rack up school loans either. the only problem i had with it was u go where say u go and obligated for a certain amount of time too. i opted against it cuz it seemed too confining. what do u think w7? |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 363 Registered: 12-2003 | umm the problem with the IT field is that every punk kid coming out of college these days has an IT or CS degree, and every single one of them expects to walk out of college and fall into some big high paying job.. the field is saturated with paper degrees, and tons of people with experience as well who are all unemployed, so it's not a field I'd recommend just now. Not without at least a Masters anyway. When I went into EE, it was what would be a CE degree by todays standards, but in 1990 there really wasn't a computer engineering program per se, most places. Back then it was a fairly open field, and the net was non-existant. different story today. |
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Anonymous | yeah, the whole navy thing kind of sucks. There are its up and downs. At least if you are going to join the military, the navy is the best bet. The air force isnt bad but their advancement sucks. The marines and the army are good if you want to be brainwashed bullet sponges. A ship lifestyle is pretty laid back in the navy. Its a lot of work, and sonetimes we are stuck out to sea for long periods of time, but its great going to foreign ports and in a war, the ship is the safest place to be. I came back from the gulf war in april. All the marines were out in iraq getting shot up, while i said a couple hunbdred miles or so off the coast of iraq. A lot safer. We also launched 31 tomahawks. Im on the ship USS Moblie Bay, you might have seen something on the news back then about it. Anyway, im not sure how long im gonna stay in the navy, but im going to get a bachelor or masters before i get out. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 33 Registered: 12-2003 | "punk kid" dont like young ppl? lol. i think its that way in most fields not just IT. when i was goin to college i was told medical jobs were available in a 15:1 ratio for every graduate. after i graduated...bullshit! market is flooded in medical too excluding nursing maybe, especially 4 new grads. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 | btw glass, i know its car audio forum but can u recommend some home speakers. im looking for something compact so in the price and size range of like bose 301 bookshelf speakers, thx. for R&B/hip hop music. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 376 Registered: 12-2003 | nah nothing wrong with college kids.. I was just inferring that every single person in college seems to have an IT degree now. It's no longer a niche market. The field is totally flooded, and yes there is a big nursing shortage right now as well (mom's an RN.) what is the budget for the speakers you want, and would you consider going 2.1 for space constrictions, or do you just want two mains? I can't stand Bose so I dunno what the 301s go for. Energy Connouisseur series are some terrific speakers for full sized mains at a decent price range. Their Encore setup is amazing for 5.1 |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 36 Registered: 12-2003 | why dont u like bose? too hyped up like JL? i couldnt find a web page by their company (Energy Connouisseur) , do u know where theyre made? wow $360 for a pair of 2-way speakers? the c-3's is what im looking for, something small. i know size doesnt always mean much but the bose 301's has bigger woofer 8's and bigger power capacity even tho only by 25w or so. why r EC so good? i dont mind spending $400-500 for home speakers but for that I would like to get at least a 3-way free standing one. not sure bout terminology but i guess 5.1 means 5 satellites with one sub? nah i plan on moving in the future so i think i just want 2 mains so theres less stuff to carry. man i think ur home speakers cost more than my car now that i think about it lol! |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 37 Registered: 12-2003 | btw i think bose 301's r $300/pair maybe less if u shop around |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 384 Registered: 12-2003 | Bose is a mass marketed product that doesn't perform all that well. Bose is a pretty big joke in the higher end home audio community. Much like say, Pyramid is in car audio. They aren't that good of a performer. There's an old joke that goes, "No highs? No lows? Must be Bose!" JL actually earned it's reputation, and maintains it. Their products are great, just expensive. Energy: www.energy-speakers.com Connouisseur is the line of speakers power handling doesn't eman much for home audio since most receivers don't put out more than about 100w/channel anyway. Home Audio is a totally different world than car audio, really. car audio is almost like a new wave world of younger upstarts next to the old school blue bloods of the home audio world.. heh Yes, home stuff can start out in price, where car audio tops out, and it never looks back. scary thought. $35,000 amplifiers, $150K turntables, and $75K speakers... pre/pros, room acoustics, etc. you can easily drop half a mill into a decent listening room, and that's just for audio. if ya go into home theater too, it goes up from there. anyway take a look at Energy's site, and see if ya like anything there. They amke very accurate, good speakers for the money. I personally use KEF (www.kef.com) and MartinLogan (www.martinlogan.com) for speakers, but they are mainly above your price range, and they are full size floor standing speakers, that sound best with dedicated class-A amplifiers. |