No bass after replacing factory speakers - help!
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Unregistered guest | Recently replaced HU on my 96 Altima with Kenwood KDC-425. Audio was ok for 4 weeks or so till I lost a (factory) front speaker. Replaced the front 5x7s with Polk db675 (2-way) and the rear deck with a Pioneer TS-G670M 6.5-inch 4-way speakers. Excellent mid-hi frequency response overall. Low frequency really sucks! When I raise the volume I see the woofer cones vibrating only to hear distortion and minimal bass. What I have done: 1. To mount the speaker on the rear deck, I could use only two screws as all the holes do not align 2. I have removed the front door panel and the cardboard (where speaker grilles are mounted) from rear deck. Would this cause problems? 1. Is the problems with Pioneers? 2. Should I try something else? 3. Am I doing something wrong? I am afraid to say that factory speakers output better low frequency. 4. Is polk 2-way better than Pioneer 4-way? Any advise/help is greatly appreciated. Should you need photos, I can upload them and send the link. Thank you in advance. Raghu |
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Silver Member Username: MattlBolingbrook, Illinois USA Post Number: 226 Registered: Jun-04 | You need an amplifier. -Matt |
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Bronze Member Username: Malby7Post Number: 62 Registered: May-04 | Matt's right. You're not putting enough power to the speakers causing them to play like crap. Think of it like putting 50 octance gas in your car. You need at least 87. |
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Bronze Member Username: Malby7Post Number: 63 Registered: May-04 | Matt's right. You're not putting enough power to the speakers causing them to play like crap. Think of it like putting 50 octane gas in your car. You need at least 87. |
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Raghu Yedatore Unregistered guest | Thanks a lot for the response. My point is factory speakers sounded better than these with the same head unit. I don't want an external amp. My HU delivers 22watts RMS into 4 ohms load, which (in my opinion) is sufficient to give out fairly decent low's. Sure, I am not comparing them to dedicated sub woofers. Not sure what's wrong, will figure out and post my findings. My guess at this point is the speakers are not mounted correctly to give enough "enclosure" which is essential to produce lows. Thank you. |
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Silver Member Username: MattlBolingbrook, Illinois USA Post Number: 238 Registered: Jun-04 | It makes perfect sense; your factory speakers were designed for 15W RMS (or so), your new Polks are designed for 60W RMS. You are far, far below the voltage needed to drive that load. If you don't want aftermarket power, don't buy aftermarket speakers. -Matt |
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New member Username: BigdogbartPost Number: 8 Registered: Jul-04 | I replaced one set of my 4 factory crap speakers with 70w RMS speakers and my HU is 22W RMS into 4 channels and I left the other set in to see the difference in sound. I did not notice any drop off in bass, but I noticed the better speakers did not play quite as loud. Although, the difference was not as pronounced as I expected since the factory speakers were rates at 60W max whereas the new ones were 210W max. It sounds like the problem could be quite deeper than just adding an amp. 60 W RMS is not that demanding of a speaker based on my listed account. |
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Silver Member Username: MattlBolingbrook, Illinois USA Post Number: 245 Registered: Jun-04 | The speakers you used though, Frank, may have had a much lower operating power; like the BAs or MB Quarts that are 12W-70W RMS. Enclosures are not essential to create low frequencies, and by no means do they have to be 100% sealed to create resonance. I'm actually done arguing this point, since you two seem to know all about it. *eyeroll* -Matt |
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New member Username: BigdogbartPost Number: 9 Registered: Jul-04 | Lack of power is logical but most pioneers have a high sensitivity and dont require alot of power to get good base. Where did you get the pioneers? Could be they are defective. Matt, the polks that he is using are rated RMS Power Range 6-60watts, and have a 92 db sensitivity. My speakers are 8-70 rated RMS and only 90 db sensitivity. His polks should perform fine with his HU. The pioneers are the likely problem. Perhaps they do require more power. I could not find the ratings on those pioneers but if they are a 4 way 6.5, they are likely power hungry or the speaker just may not produce much base since it is a 4 way in a small package. Also, a speaker that is mounted with only 2 screws should work fine. But I dont quite understand what you removed from the rear deck. If you have allowed an opening by removing something near the speaker mounts that could have a huge affect on the bass response as it would cancel itself out if you mounted it to a skeletal frame with only cloth covering the deck. Matt, stop rolling those eyes, it makes me feel dizzy. |
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Unregistered guest | Frank you seem to have gotten to the bottom of the issue. I got the Pioneers from Walmart. Here is the link: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2569443&cat=38981&type=19& dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3947%3A96481%3A38981 Specifications: 220 watts of maximum power 50 watts of nominal power handling Frequency response: 30 Hz to 30 kHz Sensitivity: 92 dB 4 ohm impedance rating I decided to go for a test drive; stopped by Circuit city. I tried the Pioneers (not the ones I have, but the same size and costs almost the same), Polk (the ones I have) and Alpine. All of these were driven from a Pioneer HU, with very similar rating to my HU. Polk sounded the best, ample bass - this is all I want. I didn't like the Pioneers, so am gonna replace them with another pair of Polks (db675). Alpines were good but couldn't handle the bass when I raised the volume half way through. It was easy to cycle through three sets of speakers just by pressing a button. I had a chat with Polk tech support. He advised me to check what I was suspecting - I may have flipped the +ve and -ve wires while connecting the speakers. So the test is to just switch the wire on only one speaker and see if I get the bass. Will do. Frank, I meant the rear deck panel that has the speaker grill. I was thinking that it acts as an enclosure. Once I remove the panel to access the speakers, I see too many holes/cuts around the speakers. Thanks a lot again. I'll certainly post after I get everything working right, may take couple of days though. |
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Bronze Member Username: RobbyTN Post Number: 12 Registered: Jul-04 | I will chime in here, although I'm FAR from a stereo guru... I have a Porsche 944 Turbo S- had stock 10-speaker system- it consisted of a 5.25" w/seperate 3.25" w/seperate tweeter in each door & a 6.5" w/seperate tweeter under each rear 1/4 window. I wanted to upgrade the system, w/a simple, relatively cost effective budget- I swapped out quite a few speakers- I had a clarion Pro Audio deck, which, I THINK out out 15w RMS / 30w peak- the factory deck would have been even less, BUT, the new speakers sounded MUCH worse than the factory ones- I could not understand & did not believe people when they told me I needed an aftermarket amp- I went back to stock speakers, &, about the time several of them stqarted clapping on me, my Clarion went out too- I then bought a Kenwood 7017- 22w RMS/47w peak- I was hoping to avoid using an amp- I had an integra w/the same Clarion HU & four Bose 6.5" coax speakers & got GREAT bass out of it- couldn't understand then, why the new Kappa 6.5's I installed in the rear of my car sounded SO BAD compared to the stock 6.5 components- I had a relatively strong deck (22w RMS) & good speakers- I FINALLY grasped the concept though, when I ran these Kappas off an ADS PQ10 4-ch amp- it's only ~45w & I THINK that is peak, BUT, from what I understand, 45w peak on an aftermarket amp is about TWICE the power of a 45w peak HU- everyone says "look at the SIZE of your 45w HU & compare it to the size of your 45w AMP & remember that the HU uses a lot of it's internal stuff to do other things BESIDES simply powering speakers..." Anyway, I TRIED running the Kappas from the ADS amp & they sounded MUCH better- I'm NOW having other bass probs, but, based on several recent suggestions, IT MAY be that I STILL do not have enough power- you see, the stock speakers are normally cheap, lightweight, paper cones- they do not take much at ALL to push- they are VERY efficient for what they are & are oftentimes VERY good, when new, for a few years- but, the aftermarket speakers are capable of MUCH more, it's just that they DO NEED more power just to get them moving at ALL, compared to the stock speakers- I hope this makes sense... Unfortunately, I cannot offer much more input b/c there are SO MANY variables- WAY TOO MANY in fact- too much junk & too many ways of doing things instead of companies sticking w/traditional things & trying to make them better- these days, everyone is trying to beat everyone else w/new things- they take no time to TEST things anymore- look at how fast new computers models are coming out & the leaps & bounds of tech advacements, OR, the speed w/which new car models come out now... Anyway, you really need to plan out exactly what you want & go from there- I only wish I had researched a forumn like THIS one when I STARTED my project- would have probably saved a LOT of $ AND HASSLE.... |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 814 Registered: May-04 | The rear panel will definately detract from your bass performance saying it's not sealed up correctly. The removed door panel and cardboard will also cause problems. The wiring may be out of phase, make sure the speakers are correctly wired. Fade the front and rear, and check the balance from the head unit, if bass improves with a certain speaker cut out, then a speaker(or a few) are out of phase and it kills bass response. Try putting Dynamat on the rear package tray as well as the doors, SEPARATE the airspace of the speakers (separate the front from the back) totally, then check the wiring. If none of this helps, then you can look into replacing speakers. |
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Raghu Yedatore Unregistered guest | Update! Now the bass is plentiful with Polk 570s in front and Polk 675 mounted on the rear deck. Once again, thanks a lot for all the valuable input. Jonathan, your input was very helpful. After doing some research figured out I needed 6 3/4 inch speakers as opposed to 6 1/2. POLK 675 fit right on factory mount - as if it were made to order. Got them from crutchfield. I also got speaker connectors for free, eliminating possible polarity errors. The bass dramatically improved after the rear deck panel was in place. All of a sudden I have more lows than highs  Well, the fact is that the highs dominated because the lows weren't there. Conclusion: 1. Polarity was definitely an issue. Bass on Pioneers improved once I flipped wires on only one speaker. Polks are definitely better; I am saying 2-way sounds better than 4-way Pioneers. 2. HU can drive these speakers well with good bass and volume. An external amp will do justice I guess. One should be careful to see the minimum wattage required to drive them. In my case 6w RMS. Most of the after market speakers are rated at high wattage than the factory ones. If these (2-way, 3-way, 4-way) coaxials require an additional amp, they can't compete with factory speakers. They are indeed better replacements. 3. I do hear some vibrations, it's time to get some Dynamat. |
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