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| I recently purchased a Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver and am anxious to utilize its capabilities with a CD Player better than the one accompanying my Playstation 2 (shouldn't be too hard to upgrade from that kind of sound quality). Any recommendations for a college student on a budget? |
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Joong-In Rhee | Denon 370 is nice. Has burr brown DAC and gives soft full sound. You can find one on ebay for $140. |
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| I researched the 370- and there seems to be a problem with the unit recognizing CDs after a few months with numerous repairs required of the unit- are there any players $300-$400 (with CD-R compatibility) worth the added investment? |
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| Sony dvpns 500v is under $200 and got a great review from the pros, comparing it to NAD 541 and Rega both $500-600 player. Plays video too! What more can you want for so little money. NAD 521 can be had for $210 refurb. from Dmcelectronics.com NAD is an important name in mid-fi value. I would also look at audiogon.com for used stuff, although Cd players are risky - they break down easily. Don't forget to spend 5-7% on cables. Accesories4less.com has discounted cables. IXOS gamma II got 5 stars on hifi magazines. Tara lab speaker cables are good too. |
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Derek | See my posts in Home Theater: DVD-A and SACD via the Pioneer DV-563A. |
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Kevin L. | I decided to go for a brand new NAD C521i and I got a Monster Digital Coaxial Cable to accompany the new player...is the Monster cable a good choice or should I go for the Gamma II cable instead? |
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G-Man | Kevin--Electrons can't tell the difference between cable as long as the fittings are proper to connect your player to the pre-amp section. Particularly in the short runs that most interconnects travel. Don't believe the audiophile magazines on this issue. They get huge ad revenue from cable companies and retailers get huge revenue from selling cables and speaker wire. There has never been an instance of anyone being able to tell the difference in a true double-blind test. Ask any electrical engineer or look at any articles on the subject written by members of the AES---the electrical engineers equivalent of the AMA. However, if it makes you feel better, any of the Monster Cables or any of the Radio Shack digital cables are totally fine and indistinguishable from the $1,000 interconnects in performance. |
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Hawk | Either the Monster Cable or the Gamma II cable would be fine, Kevin--I don't think you need to sweat it. There just isn't that much difference. Enjoy the NAD--I am jealous. |
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Anonymous | I don't understand, you want to get an outstanding CD player, which means for the most part an outstanding DAC, and then you bypass its DAC by using the digital out to a processor? So you paid a lot of money just to get a transport? I repeat - I don't understand. FYI, the best low-cost CD player I have heard is the H/K FL8550 that used the same 20 bit BB 1702 DACs as the "superior" DACs in the Krell Casablanca and the $20,000 Linn. Alas H/K stopped making this player and its replacements are not as good. Like most H/K CD players it suffered a disc-read problem, but H/K routinely fixes that in or out of warranty, and once you get that fixed it is a fabulous sounding player. The DACs are so good I prefer it over the internal 24 bit DACs in the Lexicon MC-8. I liked this player so much I bought a second on on Ubid for $89. What a steal! |
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Anonymous | Kevin...first try the ps2 with an optical output.Your games,movies and music will use the Pioneer DAC.The analog outs will have to be used for a true stereo mode as well as your reciever having a pure stereo mode....bypassing all the digital stuff.I don't know what your college budget is but a used dvd player like the sony dvp 7000/7700 is a player i would endorse.4 plus years ago these players were over a thousand dollars that you can buy used for 2-3 hundred.They aren't progressive scan but they were solidly built and still plays dvds and music to a very respectable standard.These players make very good transports. |
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| Quick question in response to the post from 'Anonymous' regarding the use of the Digital Out instead of the DAC - is there a big difference between the two? I was under the impression that a Digital Out is "always" the better option...should I exchange my Monster cable for something different? |
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Kevin L. | As a follow-up to my original post, I replaced the 43TX with the updated 53TX and I am very pleased with the updated features on the 53TX. |
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| OK, so I bought an analog cable to try out those Brown-Durr converters that make this unit "famous" after using a Monster Digital cable to hook it into my receiver (foolishly) for the past few weeks- and all I can say is WOW. What a difference! Everything is much more clean and I'm hearing things in my CDs that I have never heard before. I played the Digital cable with some CDs, then the Analog cable, and there is a tremendous difference. GET THE NAD 521i CD player now, get the analog cable, and you will NOT be disappointed. Thanks everyone for your help. |
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| Analog? What's analog cable? Don't you mean coaxial, which sounds better versus optical? I thought both were digital though? M'dumb... |
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G-Man | Jeffrey-- Your question is good--not dumb. What makes a digital cable is the protocol that the manufacturers have decided upon. Look at all the digital protocol connections that computers and their devices use, from USB, fire wire, parallel, serial connections, etc. It is just a matter of agreed upon protocol so the industry doesn't become a mess. For DVD and CD players the majority digital protocol is coaxial cable and optical cable. But there are R-232 interconnects and USB interconnects, not to forget fire wire in a number of receivers and pre-amps and monitors. It could be endless. As long as the interconnect can faithfully carry 0's and 1's it is a viable carrier. It just makes sense for most companies to cooperate on protocols so people can integrate different brands into a system. |
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| Ok. So an analog interconnect like he was talking about is what is preferred when dealing with a 2-speaker stereo system for CD audio, that end in RCA plugs... like these, right?: http://www.bettercable.com/silseraudin.html But digital cable, whether optical or coaxial is what you use when you are doing 5.1 surround or DVD etc? |
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G-Man | RCA plugs are for certain analog connections, such as your link showed. Of course they would have to drug me first to pay that price on that link for RCA plugs. An optical or digital coaxial cable is often used to connect CD or DVD players to pre-amps or receivers. You can connect digitally even with stereo. Of course you can also connect them with analog connections, but digital is the preferred. Your receiver manual and other devices you are connecting will tell you their preferred interconnects. Don't buy interconnects before you know what you are getting. |
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| So what cable do you think would sound absolute best coming from an audio CD to 2 speaker stereo?? This is all about CD music, no DVDs or surround sound. I thought keeping everything digital was the way to go, but then Kevin tries RCA plugs in order to use the DAC & says it sounds better. Now I'm lost! I'm getting the same CD player as him & mating it to NAD C320BEE |
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G-Man | If you have a digital out on your CD player and a digital in on your receiver you should use it. The CD is a digital format and is read and transmitted that way. Of course it will hit a DAC sooner or later, as it has to be converted to analog to be sent to the speaker. Professionals can't even hear the difference on a DAC in a $100 CD player compared to a $3,000 player. The frequency response, distortion, etc. on even cheap DAC's is so far beyond what we can hear it is ridiculous. Speaker distortion is always MUCH greater than everything else times ten. Use either a coaxial cable or optical--whichever is compatible with your system or whichever you prefer (there is no real difference). |
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| In response to G-Man's post: I hooked my NAD to my receiver both with a Digital cable, and the Analog cable. I listened to all sorts of music, from Classical to rap, to rock, etc., while switching back and forth between the digital and the analog signals. Listening to Radiohead's 'Hail To the Thief' very minute details present in some of the tracks could be discernible with the Analog cable, and those same details were barely noticable with the Digital cable. At the same time, I brought in some of my friends (separately) to listen between the two cables and did not tell them which cable was being used at which time. Of the four opinions that I got- all four guys thought that the Analog cable sounded slightly better- they thought that the analog cable produced a more detailed slightly crisper sound. I am not going to argue in regards to which cable sounds better- I am just letting everyone know that upon listening to the two, and after asking some of my friends which one sounded better, we all agreed that the Analog cable sounded a little better than the Digital cable. |
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TWN | audioadvisor.com is now promoting the Cambridge Audio D300SE CD player for only 199.99. I got one and I think it is a really good deal for a quality CD player. |
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G-Man | If the analog sounds better than the digital, something is seriously awry with either your cd player or your receiver. If your cd player cannot pass a cd's digital signal directly from the cd player via digital cable to the receiver something is either seriously wrong with it, or something is seriously wrong with the receiver input or the receivers DAC that converts the signal to analog must either be not operating properly or just truly awful. There is no other sensible explanation that comes readily to mind. Afterall, every effect has a cause. |
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Derek | Actually the analog cable CAN sound better. If that's his preference or like your said, there is something terribly wrong. Coloration, slight noise, droopy frequency response etc. can all be pleasant. However, if everything is working correctly, the analog cable cannot be a more ACCURATE a representation of what the recording engineer wanted. Every once in a while a good recording will come along that the typical system can't play but you wont notice it. Most music will be fine but you might be missing something... Me, I want to hear everything. If it doesn't sound good, I'll listen to something else. I would like to trust my system to reproduce a recording not MAKE is sound good. My two cents. |
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G-Man | Derek--- I think you may have stated my point better than I did:-) But I think there is a third reason too, besides a person's preference of a non-flat response or slightly distorted repsonse, or a faulty situation. And I think this third reason is enormously prevalent---basically, most people will prefer the things they are told are better by periodicals they read or people they respect whether it is correct or not. These people, by and large, would never be able to discern these "enormous" differences in a real ABX test where they didn't know the source. I remember that years ago I used to swear by hearing differences in wires and components until an engineer set up everything within 0.1 db (rather difficult) and my guesswork ended up as totally random, whether it was wire, cd player, or receiver. Obviously speakers are far different than all other components. They have a lot of difference between each other, as no two speakers have a flat response and all speakers have varying and dramatic amounts of distortion. I generally had no problem differentiating different speakers. |
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Hawk | If I understand your point, I would have to disagree. Using a digital connection for the audio means that the receiver is now doing the conversion form digital to analog. That means you are relying on the receiver's DACs. However, it sound to me like Kevin prefers the DACs from his CD player, which may, in fact, be superior. This does not mean he is "missing something." To the contrary, it means he has heard both processors and prefers the one built into his CD player rather than the DACs in his receiver. In all likelihood, after reading his post, it appears that he is hearing more when the CD player is doing the conversion, not the other way around! |
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Kevin L. | Sorry for the confusion- re-reading my post I realize that I was not entirely clear. What Hawk said is the correct way that I went about comparing the two formats- I used the Digital cable with the DAC in my receiver and I used the Analog cable with the NAD DAC; connecting it to my receiver out to the speakers via the 'DIRECT' setting (no processing by the Pioneer). |
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| Hello everybody. I have the following audio system: Amp: Graaf GM 20 OTL - PreAmp: Graaf 13.5 B II - Sony XA50ES as transport and Wadia 26 as DAC - Sonus Faber Concert - Cables: Nordost SPM Reference and Red Dawn - Van Den Hul Revelation. I think is time to change de digital sources... Do you think the Vincent cd player's S3 or S6 is a good choice ? Best regards - Carlos - Portugal |
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Nick Black | Jeffrey Baird I Just bought a NAD 320Bee and 542 cd player.I read reviews on both the 521i and 542,and went to the shop with the intention of buying whichever i felt sounded better.The sales guy was very patient and unplugged and re-hooked up both the players a number of times with different cd's and tracks,while i compared the two with a NAD 320BEE and B&W 602 S2's. I found a noticable difference in favour of the 542,although it does cost a fair bit more. By the way,the 542 +320BEE sound awsome...i previously was using a Pioneer DVD player(DV525) and Kenwood pro logic receiver(8090),and had never been happy with them |
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| bought one for under 200 g8 service quick shipping !! http://buyriteelectronics.com |
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Black Math | You may be hearing a quality difference in your CD player vs your reciever not because of DAC's, but because of a superior analog output stage and/or digital filter in your CD player. People really underestimate what happens to the signal after the digtital conversion. |
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Anonymous | Charles, Are you serious? If so the first thing I would do is see if your Wadia is upgradeable. |
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New member Username: EdisonPost Number: 4 Registered: 12-2003 | Carlos, You have a pretty nice system already - Wadia is one of the best there is - you must know. Perhaps a tube DAC. I would post on www.audiogon.com or www.audioasylum.com. These sights are for more upscale pieces like you are looking for. Your system should sound sweet! Perhaps you might have to get into room treatments, and other tweaks like improving the power chord, getting a hospital grade electric outlet, having a direct electric connection to avoid dirty power (ask a qualified electrician to do this - dangerous), and other tweaks available at the www.audiogon.com Your components are fine - room acoustic treatments in particular will give you satisfying results. If you want to make your own: http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a.htm You are lucky to have such a system - to get better, you need to tweak it to your liking. |
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chomiller Unregistered guest | I'm looking for an affordable cd player with decent quality. Got the Denon DCM 280 refurbished for cheap (<$100), but it doesn't play all the cds I own. Then got a Sony CE 375 for $120, which reliably plays all cds, but sound is not as good and the peak light on the Marantz amplifier goes off when I use it. Any suggestions? |