Magnepan Advice Needed
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Joel | I've read through these forums for many hours and there's so much great info - but it sure is easy for a newbie to get lost. So I'm posting :-) Here's my room: 16'wide x 19'deep - fronts and rears may be 19 feet apart. Vaulted/Angled ceiling 12' at rear speakers to 18' over front and center speakers. My use will be 50% music 50% HT. 4 towers would fit - no space issues. No receiver yet. Was leaning toward Denon 1804, Onkyo 601 or splurging on a NAD 752. Perhaps a little less speaker and a little more receiver is best? Budget up to $3k for all audio but would prefer to spend less. Magnepan has a Home Theatre option that looks like it's based on 4 MGMC1's and a CC3 center. http://www.magnepan.com/1-800-474-1646/hometheater.html My question is, is that setup good, or would I be better off with a different set of fronts... like the MMG's or the MG 1.6's? Or MMG's in 4 spots? Is a sub needed with those speakers? Also - what about Rockets, HTD Level III's etc. Here's a bonus thought: One thing that has been so dang confusing is trying to compare threads like "Fluance: Good or Bad?" where there are 5 speakers for a few hundred bucks to other threads with much more expensive stuff. Everyone seems to LOVE whatever they bought. Does the Emporer have any clothes? (Are expensive speakers really worth it?) I don't need it super loud, I'd like clean actors voices, I'd like to piss my pants when Tiger Tanks rumble by AND I would like to enjoy my CDs on one system. (I'm used to crappy audio - so I probably won't be complaining no matter what I get) Thanks much for any input guys. |
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| Joel, I certainly feel your pain my friend. I too am an audiophile newbie and have been quite enthralled as well as humbled by the postings on this site. With the research and the wonderful reviews I've read about the Magnepan's, I am also leaning towards those speakers for my H/T setup. I just called them this afternoon to find out some more gouge on the new line of speakers that are due out by years end. It is a smaller center channel in comparison to the CC3, and wall-mounted surrounds that would compliment the MMGs as your mains. I was given a rough estimate of $300 for the surrounds (which I was told could be used just as well as mains) and $300 for the center channel, which should be good news for your budget constraints. As far as the necessity of a sub with the Maggie's Joel, I have heard that it is imperative. The Maggie's low end is in need of a boost. The other negatives that I have read on them is the difficulty in positioning them for optimum sound, and that once you have found the "sweet spot", that is the only spot to benefit from said positioning. Also, if you enjoy Hard Rock, they lack in performance in that music genre. But if you're like me...anything will sound better than my current Pioneer HTIB (Home Theater In a Box) system. I also just picked up my NAD 752 receiver yesterday and have yet to open the novel of an instruction manual that comes along with it. (I'm hoping that is because it is in 36 different languages). I test drove some Italian speakers (Sonus faber - Cremona Series) at a "Sound Advice" dealer in Orlando this evening. The salesman and I spent 2 hours listening to different CD's in different formats (Stereo, DVD-A, SACD). I was in heaven with everything from Diana Krall, to James Taylor, Miles Davis, Pink Floyd and ZZ Top. But I just can't see spending $7500/pr for mains, $3600/pr for bookshelf surrounds, and $4000 for the matching center. However, they did have some smaller speakers for less than half the price that I thought I might splurge on for the mains. Any reviews on this speaker manufacturer from anyone would be greatly appreciated? How about Martin Logan? What is the deal with the electrostatic transducer? Gimmick or solid technology? I came close to ramming the checkbook to it's Outer Limits tonight, but my inner chaperone won out to wait what the experts of this BBS had to say. Joel, best of luck to you in whatever choice you make in speaker selection, and to your better half in cleaning up the sofa after those Tiger Tanks roll through. Warm Regards to all, Jim |
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Hawk | Joel: You have asked a lot of questions and I will attempt to answer all of them, but I may get lost myself. 1. The MGMC1s are a super speaker, but they have no bass extension below 80hz. Given that you want this system 50% for music, I do not recommend 4 of the MGMC1s for your system. Not enough bass. 2. However, you would be hard pressed to spend double the amount of money and get a system as good as teh Magnepan MMG fronts, CC3 center, and MGMMC1s for the surrounds, or go with 4 MMGs, either way. You will save money as the MMGs are $550/pair delivered and the MC1s are $725 from the dealer. 3. There is going to be a third option as Magnepan has annouced that it will have a complete 5 channel system based upon the MMGs available by the end of the year. All we know is that it will have MMGs for the fronts--the rest of the system is reportedly $300 for the center speaker and $300 for the surrounds (I have not reached Magnepan to confirm this yet). 4. The only receiver you listed capable of driving the MMGs or any Magnepan system is the NAD 752. No other is capable of driving a 5 channel system of 4 ohm speakers, and none but the NAD has enough current to allow the Maggies to strut their stuff. Add the fact that the NAD 752 is one of the best sounding receivers out there (it is really more like listening to quality separates rather than the usual mass market receiver sound), and you will be pissing in your pants when the Tiger tanks runble by! 5. I have a low regard for Fluance speakers. Hey, they are worth what is being charged, but they have thin walls (hence you get some box resonance, which degrades the sound), and you get very simple cross-overs which cannot keep up with complex information. All in all, they are not capable of demanding material. However, they are a great choice for the guy who buys a Denon 1603, but not an over $500 receiver. HTD Level IIIs are even below Fluance, IMO. 6. Rockets are pretty good, certainly better than Fluance, but no where near the league that the Magnepans are in. Heck, I don't think they are even as good as the Ascend Acoustics CM-170s, which run $328/pr. However, Rockets have lovely cabinets. If you want lovely cabinets most of all, Rockets are a good choice. 7. Sub--if you can afford the Hsu Research VTF-2s at $489, get one. It is without a doubt the best sub-$500 sub you can find (couldn't resist the pun). If you need to spend less, the PSB Subsonic 5 at $350 is a good budget choice. Finally, I would recommend the following: NAD 752 receiver: ~$700 Magnepan MMG speakers for your front mains (they will sound great in your large room, too.: $550 Hsu Research VTF-2: $489 I would await the arrival of the new Magnepan center and surrounds to fill out the system, which are reportedly going to cost $600 combined. However, you may want to get a second pair of MMGs and the new center speaker which would add another $850 instead of $600. All combined then, the cost of this killer system would be anywhere from $2350 to $2600, depending upon whether you got a second set of MMGs for your surrounds or got the new Maggie surrounds, instead. I hope this helps clear things up for you. I would absolutely love this system and it is within your budget. |
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| Hawk, Sorry to ask this on Joel's thread, but I just completed reading some reviews on the Axiom Epic 80 H/T complete system. Do you know anything of this system? I am willing to put out the $2400 if it makes that much difference in the sound quality...also have you heard the Italian brand I spoke of above? Sonus faber? Thank you as always, Jim |
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Anonymous | Hawk, Do you know where I can get NAD 752 for $700? All I can get up to this point is $799 or up. If you could share that info that would be great too. P.S. DMC, Kief, Saturday Audio are all well above $700. Thanks. |
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Joel | > Thanks Hawk and Jim for the thoughts. If the new center is smaller as Jim indicated, perhaps 4 MMGs, a CC3 and the VTF-2 plus the 752 is the ticket. Maybe I should call to see if the new center is a better match for the MMG's. Also - Hawk, have you found positioning of the MMG's critical. Is hard rock not very good on them as Jim noted? I've got Zeppelin and Nirvana here :-) Finally, the 762 is $899 now at Sat Audio - waddya think vs. the 752? Jim - let me know how you 752 sets up for you and what speakers you end up with. To anonymous: here's the 752 for $699 http://www.saturdayaudio.com/newgear.htm and refurbs for $649 here: http://www.yawaonline.com/nadreceivers.html I wonder what the odds are that my local dealer would match that $699 or $899... hmmm. Thanks again! |
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Hawk | Kiefs gave me a price of $799 for the 753, not the 752. I have been quoted a price of $699 for the 752 from Saturday Audioa couple of weeks ago. |
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Hawk | Joel: 1. Positioning of the MMGs is not critical. I had mine up against the wall because our room is too shallow to accomodate them being 36" from the wall. I also violated some other rules by having them further apart than from my listnening position (another audiophile no-no). Didn't seem to be a problem. I just think they are great--I just wish I could figure out a way to actually hang them on the wall! I also think this suggestion that Magnepans are very particular about their positioning is a left over from earlier generations. I do believe it was true of earlier Maggies (more than 10 years ago), but not so much now. 2. In my experience, rock music was no problem. The reason is that the Maggies are fast--in fact, I don't think there is a faster speaker out there. Hence, it responds much faster than a traditional cone speaker when you get rapid changes in program information--like a good guitar riff. Again, I think they have improved their technology over earlier generations that much of the drawbacks previously believed of these planar speakers has now been solved. They are so much better than the Maggies I first heard 24 years ago that I just don't think they are comparable. The Maggies now respond so quickly that they are able to produce any music that I am aware of and do it with incredible fidelity. Among my favorite music is some good Jethro Tull (i.e., Aqualung), and listening to that album through the Maggies was almost a religious experience (I can be a heathen, on occasion). I will also say that I have several "Live" albums and listening to them through the Maggies is like being there. 3. If you get the MMGs, you will find that Magnepan will tell you to put the ribbon tweeter on the inside, but I found they sounded better to me with the tweeter on the outside--helped widen the soundstage. It is worth experimenting. 4. The price on the 762 from Saturday Audio is a GREAT PRICE. If you have the scratch, do it. With the value of the dollar falling against other currencies, we are not likely to see these prices again. Warmest regards. |
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Joel | Hawk wrote: "Among my favorite music is some good Jethro Tull (i.e., Aqualung), and listening to that album through the Maggies was almost a religious experience (I can be a heathen, on occasion)." Magic words - I'm a Jethro Tull fan so you've got me sold now. I may just grab the 762 first, (do this thing right) and wait a little on the speakers... I might need someone to hold my hand though - haha. |
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Felix | Can the Marantz SR5300 work with these speakers? |
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AdamT | Thanks for your post Hawk. I've also been considering the MMGs but just about everything I've read about them until now suggests that positioning is very difficult and the "sweetspot" is tiny. This would be a show stopper for me, since my room is long and narrow (15' x 30') and the speakers would be facing in the short dimension and would be located at one end of the room. The sofa is centered between the speakers, but I have two chairs that are pretty well off-center. Well, it's good that Magnepan offers a 30 day trial I guess.  |
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Hawk | Felix: No, the Marantz 5300 is not rated to handle a 4 ohm speaker and it really isn't powerful enough to drive the Magnepans. AdamT: Your room sounds a lot like my room (20 wide x 14 deep, with 18 ft ceilings and open to the kitchen on the left). Like I said earlier, my "sweet spot" was about the width of my sofa (84" wide), but what was amazing was how good they sounded even when not in the sweet spot (my favorite chair is off to the side). And for the record, the Magnepan trial period is 60 days, not 30. It is really worth trying to see if they work for you. Cheers! |
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AdamT | Well that is encouraging. I get the impression that comments like "small sweetspot" can stick to a product undeservedly when they're picked up and repeated wtihout a lot of critical thought or actual experience. |
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Hawk | AdamT: I wholeheartedly agree. I also think the common perception doesn't reflect how well Magnepan has updated and improved its product. I have had several friends who warned me about the "sweet spot" issue after I got the MMGs, but after I questioned them about it, it was based upon hearing Magnepans from 20 years ago. When one came over to hear them, he couldn't believe it ws the same company! As I said, I didn't even know about it until I was alerted to it by friends. You see, I was listening to it "off-axis" and even then I felt it was the best speaker I ever heard. Almost all of my listening was done from my chair, which was outside of the right speaker or in my study (another room entirely) where I was trying to get some work done and listen at the same time. Once alerted, I sat down in the sweet spot and was really bowled over. I then spent some time experimenting with the speakers (i.e., tweeter placement--outside works best, toe-in, distance from rear wall--better clsoe to the wall IMHO, etc.) and found the sweet spot was about the width of my sofa or 7 feet wide. You would need to experiment, as well, to find the optimal set-up, but it really is worth it. Good luck! |
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Joel | Ok, I've done some more research and am about to dive in and get the NAD 762. Any opinion on the MMG's vs. MGMC1's vs. MG12's for the fronts? The specs on the MGMC1's aren't ask good as the MMG's, but the store I called (2 hours away) says the MGMC1's sound better. I wonder if they are just steering me away from going direct on the MMG's. Has anyone heard both sets? Thanks, Joel |
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Hawk | Joel: The MMGs and the MG12s are almost identical. The MG12s are slightly larger and hence their bass extension is down to 45 Hz rather than 50 Hz for the MMGs. You also get much more choices for the frame and cover, but I think you would be hard pressed to pick out the MG12s from the MMGs in a blind listening test. I tried the MGMC1s for mains (as well as MMGs), but the MGMC1s really don't go deep enough. They are designed as surrounds and thus only go down to 80 hz (the THX standard), which for me isn't deep enough. The store may have told you they sound better because the store only sells the MC1s and doesn't sell the MMGs (factory direct only). I would dispute their statement. JimH: I re-read this thread and see that I missed your post of October 25th. sorry! I didn't mean to ignore you. I have heard the Axiom system and my impression was that they are great speakers for massive volume, but not particularly accurate. I heard a lot of "box coloration" and after listening to them, I came across an equipment review of them that heard the same thing. I don't recommend the Axiom 80 HT system. I have not heard the Sonus Fabers, although I have heard good things about them. I am still searching for a dealer in my area for this and several other brands that I want to hear, so if I hear them, I will let you know. Likewise, if you hear them, let me know what you think. Thanks. |
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| Hi there, I read about the new magnepan Center and Surround speakers in this forum. Is there any news available about these speakers? I can't find any information (specs) about these speakers. Bob |
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Joel | Bob, I called Magnepan and asked and I was told February is when they would probably ship. The center will be much smaller than the CC3 and it sounds like they are redesigning it completely. Not sure about the other speakers. Should be interesting... sounds like they are trying to put together a low end price point to get new people on board and hit a market they've been missing. Joel |
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| Hey Joel, good man. Thank you so much for the info. Bob |
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